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From: owner-80-96-list-digest  ford-trucks.com (80-96-list-digest) To: 80-96-list-digest ford-trucks.com Subject: 80-96-list-digest V4 #16 Reply-To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com Sender: owner-80-96-list-digest ford-trucks.com Errors-To: owner-80-96-list-digest ford-trucks.com Precedence: bulk 80-96-list-digest Tuesday, January 18 2000 Volume 04 : Number 016 ======================================================================= Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe, send email to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list-digest" in the body of the message. ======================================================================= In this issue: FTE 80-96 - Major Fuel System Issues (HELP!) Re: FTE 80-96 - 87 Ranger Codes Re: FTE 80-96 - Major Fuel System Issues (HELP!) FTE 80-96 - Power Steering Re: FTE 80-96 - DI propane? & Cooler propane? Re: FTE 80-96 - Fan clutches: Hayden or Motorcraft? Re: FTE 80-96 - 1993 F150 w/A40D Trans. Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Brake Lines Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Brake Lines RE: FTE 80-96 - Power Steering FTE 80-96 - waterproofing Re: FTE 80-96 - Clutch Fan Re: FTE 80-96 - Major Fuel System Issues (HELP!) Re: FTE 80-96 - 1993 F150 w/A40D Trans. FTE 80-96 - An Open Question..... FTE 80-96 - 1987 F150 Front Brakes Re: FTE 80-96 - DI propane? & Cooler propane? ======================================================================= ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:38:42 -0500 From: "Michael R. Dunbar" Subject: FTE 80-96 - Major Fuel System Issues (HELP!) Pardon my language when I say it was damn cold last night. Here in Vermont it snowed early in the day, and then dropped into the teens with a nasty windchill somewhere around -40 to -60. I was driving back to school from home and my heater stopped working, mostly due to the fact that my engine cut out in the middle of an intersection. While driving on the interstate, I was running on the rear tank and it stalled about 4 times, somewhere around 2000 on my tach, I was in 4th gear. I've noticed recently that there was something strange, but am not sure where to start in an attempt to fix things. My truck runs perfect when using the front tank, unfortunately, it was bone dry last night, but when using the rear tank, there is an audible "whirring" sound coming from the vicinity of the reservoir/pressure pump, etc area under the truck. 9 times out of 10 when driving on this tank, it performs sluggishly as if I'm trying to start in 5th gear from a dead stop, usually I can get going if I clutch in and hammer the gas up to 3000-4000 rpm and let the clutch out (typically leaving more rubber on the road than on my wheels) Usually I can run fine on the interstate with this tank, until last night.... When I first started to notice this issue, my first thought was that I had water in my tank, dry gas seemed to work. I need to get this fixed ASAP, help on the manner would be appreciated, I don't want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere again. Thankfully I had my cell phone to call home and have help drive up with gas, and a friendly passerby driving a 98 F-150 4x4 (just thought I should mention that) towed me off the road to a pulloff spot, ironically, across the street from a Mobil station.... CLOSED of course. This link points to my webpage which has pictures of the underside of my truck I took about a month ago to possibly help point me what to do. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.xoom.com/mdunbar420/fuel.htm Again, thanks. Mike Dunbar 89 F-150 XLT Lariat White River Jct., Vermont "Just remember, the wheel's spinning but the hamster's dead" Pet Peeve of a Goldfish: "Just because I have a three-second memory, they don't think I'll mind eating the same fish flakes ... Oh boy! Fish flakes!" == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:01:37 EST From: Kbeverwein aol.com Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 87 Ranger Codes tks == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:29:05 EST From: AWood70928 aol.com Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Major Fuel System Issues (HELP!) In a message dated 1/17/00 11:46:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, mdunbar vtc.vsc.edu writes: << Pardon my language when I say it was damn cold last night. Here in Vermont it snowed early in the day, and then dropped into the teens with a nasty windchill somewhere around -40 to -60. >> That's why I moved to Southern New Hampshire from Barre, Mike. Couldn't take those Vermont winters. Only got down to about -30 here last night with the wind. The second picture on your sight is the High Pressure Fuel Pump. I only know that because I had to replace the one on my 87 and it looks the same. The third pic looks like a fuel filter to me - and is in about the same location as mine. That's as much as I know about all this. Stay out of the hot sun. Al Manchester - the sunny south == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:36:34 -0800 From: Eric Sneed Subject: FTE 80-96 - Power Steering Hello, My 89 f150 $ is at it again, now it is the power steerings turn. I have two questions: 1.Where are the common places to look for a bad leak in this system? 2., What type of shop does power steering work? two alignment shops and 4WPW will not work on power steering systems. Thanks in advance ES == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:53:10 -0700 From: Fred Moreno Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - DI propane? & Cooler propane? Les wrote in reply to Chris: Hi Chris, It's already been done. If you remove the fuel injectors, and replace with propane, and you use liquid propane, the injector will freeze, so a gas is still the way to go. Yes but no, there is a gentleman by the name of Dave Bennett (sp?) in Michigan with a system that uses liquid propane. He has a pump mounted inside the tank - I think he uses Sleeger (sp?again) tanks. His sytem works quit well and has been tested in Phoenix and in Michigan. Why his system has not made it big is beyond me, propably politcal and financial reasons....If you want more information, one of my best friends works with him, I will contact him for more information. The Eurpeans have a few models using true DI but it is EXPENSIVE, and now you are back to the reliability of injectors. Yes the europeans are experiencing one small difficulty, that is reliability. You buy the car today, and six months from now you need all new injectors at best. This is common with not only the Dutch but also the Italians, sorry of I offend anyone, but this is probably why some have indirectly approached our company for solutions to their situations. Diesel fuel trucks using 30% diesel injection & 70% propane mix, a Dutch creation, I believe, and Phred can probably give us even more options. About one year ago, my teaching partner bought a system that introduced a small amount of propane into the air stream of a diesel engine. They made claims of increased performance, mileage, cleaner oil etc, and these pretty much were true. My partner installs the system on his fathers' Dudge Cummins diesel. Works...for about two weeks (damn there we go again with the reliability issue!) So anyways my buddy starts playing the send it back, wait for the part in the mail, install it, two weeks later it fails again, call technical hotline, okay we don't have a fluke, this is a real problem. Sorry. Well my buddy Mark Gainer is my partner because he is good at what he does, knows his caca in and out of maintenance, troubleshooting, all around mechanically inclined, is a stickler for perfection and always buys the first round. He understands the system - it's a no-brainer for him- sees the problem with it and implements his own changes with a few components, adds safety features for the operator to monitor, fine tunes the entire system and patents the whole enchilada. This was over 8 months ago and probably 15-20 trucks by now. I have driven his own Dudge Cummins with and without the propane in the airstream. Conclusion is that my next truck WILL be a diesel. The increase in HP, rectal dynamometer is awesome, his mileage went from 20 mpg to 29 mpg. This is a 3/4 ton 1992 regular cab 4X4. Those who want more information can get it straight from Mark, just email me directly and I will forward the information. Don't believe me, ask him directly. I have seen the light.... A propane installer, over here is doing M.Benz cars, where the bosch jetronic injection system is too old & expensive to repair, some of these systems are 30-35 years old. The fuel pump drive is disconnected and injectors are sealed off and left in to look stock and the propane mixer is installed in the back of the air cleaner, where it can't be seen. Don't think these cars can't go, these 6.9 ltr 2 ton+ vehicles are still capable if burning rubber in 1st & 2nd gear and pulling over 150mph top speed. The only real problem I have with your suggestion is the issue of simplicity. Have you taken the propane mixer apart? The OHG -450X, if you count the return spring, has TWO (2) moving parts. There is nothing to them, they make the Pommy S.U. or a Briggs & Stratton mower carby look complex. In this day of increasingly complex engine control systems that are fast outsmarting the dealers, I find it refreshingly simple to use. Just watch this list to see how much trouble fuel tanks & pumps cause, not a worry on a dual tank propane truck. There isn't even a bronze sinter fuel filter to clog, or needle & seat to fail. There is not even a cold start choke control. What is a FI filter worth?. I am using the 'Over the Hill Gang-450X'. This mixer next to an injection system, is in my opinion still going to be more reliable and less prone to failure than injectors. Why do you need propane injection to up the Comp. Ratio? Do it anyway. 10 to 1 is a good start, especially if you are getting the 110 octane propane. Are you having pre ignition problems ? Has your dizzy been optimized ( re-curved ) for propane? Chris McKinnon wrote: The idea behind DI is that compression ratios can be higher without any pre-detonation problems, not to mention that the engine computer can really control the mixture based on driving habits. I have spoken with the propane guru's and they say to build the engine with about 9.5:1 compression ratio. You never know what grade fuel you're going to get especially when travelling. To solve the detonation issue, two things: 1 - bring in cold air from outside the engine compartment. Propane is a gas and the warmer the gase to more volume it occupies. Keep it cool and you'll get more in the combustion chamber. 2 - Water injection is suppose to work great to cool down the inlet air and combustion temperatures. Look what it does for gasoline applications and multiply that by 10 because now you are dealing with a gaseous substance not liquid. God I wish I had more time and money for myself.... Well the shop is closing down, I'll type more tomorrow. Phred == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 21:03:05 -0500 From: Blake Malkamaki Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Fan clutches: Hayden or Motorcraft? >> Thanks all for your help on the fan clutch. I think I will look for a >> Hayden if that is the best. I too hate buying some of the junk at >> AutoZone. >> I have dealt with NAPA for 30 years, but sometimes I fall into the >> AutoZone >> lure. Who sells Hayden? > >NAPA has them. > I stopped at Ford today and, with my discount, Motorcraft clutch fans are over $90. I can get the same part number from http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://carparts.com for $47.11. I can also get a Hayden HD for $51.10 from them. Which do you recommend? Blake Little Mountain Concord, Ohio Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake "Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed." "An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...." == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 21:56:48 EST From: Spruce1495 aol.comSubject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 1993 F150 w/A40D Trans. Excuse me, Bob, I meant E40D. It's in my F150 1993 year. Thanks, Bill == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 21:58:50 -0500 From: "Todd Schiller" Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Brake Lines I used Inline tube ,bought the stainless steel lines for my 85 F-150 cost around $180 for complete set from master cylinder to the hoses. They fit great. they can be found at www.inlinetube.com Todd Schiller 85 F-150 4X4 Flareside - -----Original Message----- From: BanksRVA aol.com To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com <80-96-listford-trucks.com>Date: Sunday, January 16, 2000 10:37 AM Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Brake Lines >Hi, has anyone had any experience with companies who offer pre bent brake >lines? >If anyone has, can you tell me who you used. >Thanks, >Joe 82 F100 >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:12:50 EST From: BanksRVA aol.comSubject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Brake Lines Thanks for the info Todd. Joe == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:04:09 -0400 From: "Brad Watts" Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Power Steering Check the: sector shaft where it exits the box adjustment bolt, on top of the box, opposite the sector shaft the hose on the side of the pump that can swivel. If it's the sector shaft leaking, I'd recommend having the shaft removed, ground down, spray welded and returned. I have seen a lot of people just replace the seals only to find it leak again in 2 months. It sounds like a scary adventure but if you do the labour work your self, the shaft rebuild and new seals should be well under $100. I can say that because I did it for $ 110 on our good ol Canadian dollar. Cheers! Brad Watts / AMT E-mail wattsb nbnet.nb.caWeb www.amt.nb.ca - -----Original Message----- From: owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com[mailto:owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com] On Behalf Of Eric SneedSent: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:37 PM To: '80-96-list ford-trucks.com'Subject: FTE 80-96 - Power Steering Hello, My 89 f150 $ is at it again, now it is the power steerings turn. I have two questions: 1.Where are the common places to look for a bad leak in this system? 2., What type of shop does power steering work? two alignment shops and 4WPW will not work on power steering systems. Thanks in advance ES == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:19:56 -0600 From: "Harris, Scott" Subject: FTE 80-96 - waterproofing Any of you have any good tips on waterproofing a distributor? Seems lately even if I sneeze near the thing it seem to get moisture in it and cuts out until it dries itself. I remember some mention of this a while back but couldn't recall exactly what. Scott Harris '85 F150SC 302 efi == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:11:15 -0600 From: Jim Cannon Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Clutch Fan FWIW, my '80 F-150 with the 300 I-6 has a flex fan and no clutch. As the RPM goes up, the blades flex out flat and move less air (use less power). I like it, but I have heard that these flex blades are known to crack and fly apart without warning at higher RPM, tearing up your hood and radiator, a few hoses, etc. If you are working under the hood it can be really ugly when a blade breaks. At 22:53 16/01/00 -0600, you wrote: >> It will burn a little more fuel, any other reaction is negligible. >> >> Bob > >Warm up will be extended but Bob may be correct in saying its >negligible. However, you may not like the constant roaring as you >accelerate. Generally, the more cfm you move w/a fan, the louder it >is. > >Danny > >> Kevin Crandall wrote: >> >> > There has been a lot of talk about clutch fans lately, and I have a >> > question. Can you just remove the clutch fan and replace it with an after >> > market fan that rotates all the time? Will it cause any problems? Jim Cannon Houston, TX "A Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech '29 Ford Model A Phaeton and a helluva' engineer!" '80 Ford F-150 300 I-6 2WD '63 Buick Riviera 401 V-8 == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:20:14 -0600 From: Jim Cannon Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Major Fuel System Issues (HELP!) At 11:38 17/01/00 -0500, you wrote: > >I've noticed recently that there was something strange, but am not sure >where to start in an attempt to fix things. My truck runs perfect when using >the front tank, unfortunately, it was bone dry last night, but when using >the rear tank, there is an audible "whirring" sound coming from the vicinity >of the reservoir/pressure pump, etc area under the truck. From the symptoms, sounds like your rear in-tank fuel pump is going out. I do not have a fuel injected truck, so I can not help beyond that. PS - it was about 78 degrees here in Houston today, and sunny. Pay back for those hot, humid summer days we endure Jim Cannon Houston, TX "A Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech '29 Ford Model A Phaeton and a helluva' engineer!" '80 Ford F-150 300 I-6 2WD '63 Buick Riviera 401 V-8 == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 21:43:02 -0800 From: Bob Kennedy Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 1993 F150 w/A40D Trans. Spruce1495 aol.com wrote:> I have (2) questions: > 1. Does anyone know of a device to allow a more positive shift in the A4OD > without rebuilding or removal. I have heard of a unit that simply plugs into > existing control, but can't find info on it. Banks makes one, I wouldn't recommend it. The other, by Baumann Engineering, seems to be holding up pretty well from what I've heard. Go to http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.baumannengineering.com > > > 2. I have had a metallic vibration sound coming from the transmission when > shifting from OD to normal Drive. Ford replaced the torque converter at 58K, > but that didn't seem to have any or little effect. The truck has 91K on it, > and the trans never has given me any trouble, even towing my 5th wheel. > Whaddayathink?! Is it only between 3rd and OD? Does it occur upshift or downshift or both? I 'haven't heard of this problem before. > > > Bill in KY > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html Bob == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:01:04 +1100 From: les williams Subject: FTE 80-96 - An Open Question..... Hi All, I apologize for this not being strictly a ford question, but it must involve a lot of fords, and I think it would be fair to say most people on this list are from the 'real' world, and would know political/media B**l S*it when you see it. - You can always reply to me directly. In a letter to the editor section of the local motorists magazine, (Open Road, P6) about an ABC Dateline program exploring the abuses of the seizure of cars of drink drivers, and other offences. 'Police in small towns like Sulfur, Louisiana, seize cars travelling on Interstate 10 on the thinnest of pretexts. Louisiana judges get 20% of all property they order seized. Not suprisingly, travellers now avoid the State, and the tourism is suffering.......'and so the article continues in not what I would call a very complimentary manner, towards the constabulary, and system of justice in the state of Louisiana. Is this true of any state? Is this possible? 20%??!! of the top!! Wow.... this sounds to me, like the state has the local Mafia franchise. We're talking about the USA now, not some eastern block country. The reason I'm asking is, some politicians & their lackeys have just returned from an all expenses paid junket tour to the US and have mooted the idea, if it wins votes, then let's do to OZ..... I'm gunna buy me one of those judges Franchises....... We already have a 'Spin the tyres (doing donuts etc) and have the car impounded for 90 days'... regards Les Lost in the Land of OZ == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:01:46 -0800 From: "Leo Mosley" Subject: FTE 80-96 - 1987 F150 Front Brakes I am about to remove the front rotors on my 87 F150 for machining. I notice that the caliper securing mechanism looks like a "U" shaped piece with tabs on either end to hold it in place. There also seems to be a rubber filler to keep the piece expanded. I would assume you compress this piece in the area of the tabs and push it out. Does this sound right, and can the piece be used again? Thanks Leo == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:33:26 +1100 From: les williams Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - DI propane? & Cooler propane? Fred Moreno wrote: > Yes but no, there is a gentleman by the name of Dave Bennett (sp?) in > Michigan with a system that uses liquid propane. He has a pump mounted > inside the tank - I think he uses Sleeger (sp?again) tanks. His sytem works > quit well and has been tested in Phoenix and in Michigan. Why his system has > not made it big is beyond me, propably politcal and financial reasons....If > you want more information, one of my best friends works with him, I will > contact him for more information. It STILL uses a pump in the tank? The liquid is at a tank pressure of approx. 180psi, the very reason we don't need pumps, currently. The tanks are expensive enough already, representing approx half the cost of the install, and need retesting every 10 years. Yes, Please, more Info. whilst respecting any proprietary knowledge. Petrol technology has had more than 100 years of experimentation & development, Propane is only a relative newcomer and serious developments have only really been in the last 25-30 years. Maybe Dave is operating in a less than sympathetic climate, move to OZ or Europe where diesel fuel is between .82cpl in OZ to 1.85 cpl and up in parts of europe. Damn it, there is that conversion problem again. How many Litres to the US gallon?? > > The Eurpeans have a few models using true DI but it is > EXPENSIVE, and now you are back to the reliability of injectors. > > Yes the europeans are experiencing one small difficulty, that is > reliability. You buy the car today, and six months from now you need all new > injectors at best. This is common with not only the Dutch but also the > Italians, sorry of I offend anyone, but this is probably why some have > indirectly approached our company for solutions to their situations. > No offence should be taken. The reality of countries trying different propane delivery systems is a reflection of the reality of fuel prices in their respective countries, Geez, If I could buy petrol for 1.12 a US gallon, like you guys can, My F100 would be a stroked 460, at least. Why is/should propane be harder on injectors than petrol? Although I now see injection for street cars as a necessary evil to appease the smog gods. > I have spoken with the propane guru's and they say to build the engine with > about 9.5:1 compression ratio. You never know what grade fuel you're going > to get especially when travelling. To solve the detonation issue, two > things: > 1 - bring in cold air from outside the engine compartment. Propane is a gas > and the warmer the gase to more volume it occupies. Keep it cool and you'll > get more in the combustion chamber. > 2 - Water injection is suppose to work great to cool down the inlet air and > combustion temperatures. Look what it does for gasoline applications and > multiply that by 10 because now you are dealing with a gaseous substance not > liquid. AND install the MSD timing control box, (I have had my MSD catalog 'borrowed' so I don't have the part #) so you can knock back the timing in the case of a dose of bad Gas (?? Gotta stop eatin' those beans!). Vitalgas (Caltex/Texaco Oz) technical support - LPG are suggesting 9.5:1 on our 92 octane 'blend', however I think this could be a country by country issue. Out of sheer personal experience, the mantra for a propane powered truck should be, 'Cold, Cold, Cold' I did note Chris's comment about driving a cold truck, probably a stuck thermo. But what do you want comfort or performance? While your shivering in the truck, the propane is happy. ;-)) If you shop around you should be able to get 160 deg F thermo replacement, I'd love to know what's in it now. Oh, Today's temp was 30 deg C and 42 (100 deg F) predicted for tomorrow....... > God I wish I had more time and money for myself.... Phred, If you were to be part of the Idle Rich, spending you waking hours chasing under dressed dolly-birds around the deck of the 56' Company owned, tax write off, Cruiser for entertainment, look at all the Real Fun you would be missing out on. ;-^)) > > Well the shop is closing down, I'll type more tomorrow. > > Phred > I'm a day ahead of you. regards Les Lost in the Land of OZ == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ End of 80-96-list-digest V4 #16 ******************************* +---- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 through 1996 Trucks And Vans -----+ | Send posts to 80-96-list ford-trucks.com, || List removal information is on the web site. | +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+.... To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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