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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:25:31 -0400 (EDT)
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------------------------------------
80-96-list Digest Sun, 14 May 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 087

In This Issue:
Droopy front ends and new springs.
Re: Droopy front ends and new springs.
Clutch must be down to start
Re: Clutch must be down to start
Re: Clutch must be down to start
Re: Clutch must be down to start
Re: Clutch must be down to start
Re: Clutch must be down to start
Re: Clutch must be down to start
Re: Poor Running
Re: Poor Running
Re: Poor Running
Re: Poor Running
Re: Poor Running
Post-valve-job Problems
Re: Poor Running
Re: Pls help diagnose my AOD
PartsVoice URL

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Michael J. Pasznik, Jr." exit109.com>
Subject: Droopy front ends and new springs.
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:34:13 -0400

For those that care...

I completely agree with Ezekial on this one. My '95 has the tow
package, 4wd, front-end receiver, and over 100k miles on it. Between all
that and some moderate off-roading, the truck started to look like it was
always in the middle of a hard stop. Plus the receiver would pick up sand
while driving on the beach, and I didn't care for that any. In a frenzy of
modifications that I made when I finally got paid this year I replaced the
lazy front springs with Cargo Coils by Moog. They're progressive springs,
so the more load, the stiffer they get. They also lifted the front end a
full 1.5 inches. The truck looks great, and ride has been unbelievably
improved, and the new 31" MT's look like they came stock. The coils cost
$80, the alignment cost $75, and it'll take you about an hour per side once
you have all your tools set up and a spring compressor handy. I used Pep
Boys' free tool loaner program for the spring compressor, so that cost me
the gas to get to the store and back.
Also, if anybody's looking to fill up those wheelwells width-wise, I
picked up some 15x8 MT's Alcoa Challengers and they look great. Between the
offset and the 1" wider rim they do a perfect job of filling in where the
stock rims don't. I was originally considering 10" wide rims, but the
difference in cost between the 8" and the 10" was $80 per rim which made the
decision really easy. Now I'm glad I didn't get the wider ones so I didn't
have to deal with fender flares and whatnot.
I had to tell somebody! :)

-Mike

-----------------------
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:41:18 -0500
From: Ezekial 2dogs.net>
Subject: Re: droopy front end

Replace your front springs..
*snip*



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:36:18 -0400
From: S Spaulding worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Droopy front ends and new springs.

I am in the same boat with my '91, so I have a question for you and
Ezekial. Where did you get the Moog springs? Pep Boys? The rear on
mine is also drooping as a result of occasional waaaay overloading. Do
they have relatively stock leaf springs as well, or should I get them
from a lift-kit company?

Steve

"Michael J. Pasznik, Jr." wrote:
>
> For those that care...
>
> I completely agree with Ezekial on this one. My '95 has the tow
> package, 4wd, front-end receiver, and over 100k miles on it. Between all
> that and some moderate off-roading, the truck started to look like it was
> always in the middle of a hard stop. Plus the receiver would pick up sand
> while driving on the beach, and I didn't care for that any. In a frenzy of
> modifications that I made when I finally got paid this year I replaced the
> lazy front springs with Cargo Coils by Moog. They're progressive springs,
> so the more load, the stiffer they get. They also lifted the front end a
> full 1.5 inches. The truck looks great, and ride has been unbelievably
> improved, and the new 31" MT's look like they came stock. The coils cost
> $80, the alignment cost $75, and it'll take you about an hour per side once
> you have all your tools set up and a spring compressor handy. I used Pep
> Boys' free tool loaner program for the spring compressor, so that cost me
> the gas to get to the store and back.
> Also, if anybody's looking to fill up those wheelwells width-wise, I
> picked up some 15x8 MT's Alcoa Challengers and they look great. Between the
> offset and the 1" wider rim they do a perfect job of filling in where the
> stock rims don't. I was originally considering 10" wide rims, but the
> difference in cost between the 8" and the 10" was $80 per rim which made the
> decision really easy. Now I'm glad I didn't get the wider ones so I didn't
> have to deal with fender flares and whatnot.
> I had to tell somebody! :)
>
> -Mike
>
> -----------------------
> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:41:18 -0500
> From: Ezekial 2dogs.net>
> Subject: Re: droopy front end
>
> Replace your front springs..
> *snip*
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the
> message.

------------------------------

From: "Hummer Luvver" hotmail.com>
Subject: Clutch must be down to start
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 19:13:49 GMT

Is there anyway to conveniently enable the truck to be started without
having the clutch down? Is there something fairly simple that can be
disconnected or switched?---Nathan '88 F-150 XLT Lariat,4.9
________________________________________________________________________


------------------------------

From: Scrangler83 aol.com
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 17:51:25 EDT
Subject: Re: Clutch must be down to start

stupid question.. why do you want or need to do this? i keep the clutchdown
out of habit anyways.. im sure it can easily be changed however


Tom

------------------------------

From: "Larry Kelley" ipa.net>
Subject: Re: Clutch must be down to start
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 17:42:20 -0500

Who you calling stupid?
LWK
----- Original Message -----
From: aol.com>
To: <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 4:51 PM
Subject: [80-96-list] Re: Clutch must be down to start


> stupid question.. why do you want or need to do this? i keep the
clutchdown
> out of habit anyways.. im sure it can easily be changed however
>
>
> Tom
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the
> message.


------------------------------

From: Lingus0169 aol.com
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 19:07:19 EDT
Subject: Re: Clutch must be down to start

yes you can disable the clutch for starting..there is a wire that connects to
the clutch, if you disconnect it, you can start your truck with out the
clutch in, thats what i did
nick

------------------------------

From: Scrangler83 aol.com
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 19:21:15 EDT
Subject: Re: Clutch must be down to start

i was calling my question stupid..since it really didnt matter.. i was just
wondering out of curiosity why you wanted to do this

Tom

------------------------------

From: "Larry Kelley" ipa.net>
Subject: Re: Clutch must be down to start
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:28:08 -0500

Just kidding.
LWK
----- Original Message -----
From: aol.com>
To: <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 6:21 PM
Subject: [80-96-list] Re: Clutch must be down to start


> i was calling my question stupid..since it really didnt matter.. i was
just
> wondering out of curiosity why you wanted to do this
>
> Tom
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the
> message.


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 16:31:28 -0700
From: chuck sanborn deltanet.com>
Subject: Re: Clutch must be down to start

At 07:07 PM 5/14/00 -0400, you wrote:
>yes you can disable the clutch for starting..

Something to think about though....a friend of mine would have had
his Bronco stolen except the thieves didn't know about the clutch. I'm
not saying that all crooks are that dumb but anything that slows them
down is a discouragement to them. And that is why my "clutch to start"
is still hooked up.
Chuck


Chuck Sanborn
Torrance, CA
86 F150 300 cu in six banger
FAX 1-310-822-6815


------------------------------

From: "Mark Salvetti" mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Poor Running
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:07:54 -0400

Bob Kennedy, thanks for the tips. Here's where I am now:

>If it's the air by pass valve, partial throttle will eliminate the problem.
It
>opens up the butterflies in the Throttle body.

OK, part throttle didn't help.

>Sounds a lot like TPS, when the wiper goes out, it can do it just that
fast. You
>can take a volt meter and look at the smooth voltage drop as the TPS is
>actuated. If it stops and then jumps, or doesn't move at all, it is the
culprit.

I pulled the codes, and got 31, followed by 18 and 63 from the continuous
memory. As far as I can tell, the 31 is EGR valve position related, 18 is
an erratic tach signal, and 63 is low TPS voltage. With the key on, engine
off, the TPS voltage was about 0.8 volts, and I guess it's supposed to be
1.0. I didn't check the voltage at different throttle openings, nor with
the engine running. I'll probably check that next. I did check the TPS
resistance, and it's within spec both open and closed throttle. I haven't
checked the EGR valve sensor yet.

After checking the codes, I tried to start again, and it's been running fine
since. Can the TPS go out intermittently at first? I cleared the memory
codes, and decided to wait and see what happens over the next few days.

The other odd (?) thing is that the engine won't run when I try to check the
codes with the engine running. Sounds like it's about to start, but then it
quits. Any idea what this is telling me?

Thanks again. I'll let you know what happens.

Mark Salvetti
1986 F150 5.0L





------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:34:06 -0700
From: Bob Kennedy uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Poor Running



Mark Salvetti wrote:

> OK, part throttle didn't help.

Eliminates the TPS as the problem. 1 down.

>
>
>
> I pulled the codes, and got 31

EVP out of range, that's the sensor that sits on top of the EGR valve. EGR made
need cleaning. Carb cleaner works pretty good.


> , followed by 18

Memory code, Loss of tach input, IDM ( Ignition Diagnostics Monitor. A
continuous monitor of the ignition input to the EEC-IV control module used to
detect intermittent ignition faults) circuit failure, SPOUT circuit grounded.


> and 63 from the continuous
> memory.

TPS below minimum voltage. If you tested it low and high, it's probably got a
dead spot in it. It's a wiper assembly, so the transition from low to high
should be smooth, not erratic, no flat spots.


> As far as I can tell, the 31 is EGR valve position related, 18 is
> an erratic tach signal, and 63 is low TPS voltage. With the key on, engine
> off, the TPS voltage was about 0.8 volts, and I guess it's supposed to be
> 1.0.

Actually EEC-IV closed throttle .6 volts, full throttle 4.5 volts.

> I didn't check the voltage at different throttle openings, nor with
> the engine running. I'll probably check that next. I did check the TPS
> resistance, and it's within spec both open and closed throttle. I haven't
> checked the EGR valve sensor yet.
>
> After checking the codes, I tried to start again, and it's been running fine
> since. Can the TPS go out intermittently at first? I cleared the memory
> codes, and decided to wait and see what happens over the next few days.

I'd probably do the same thing.

>
>
> The other odd (?) thing is that the engine won't run when I try to check the
> codes with the engine running. Sounds like it's about to start, but then it
> quits. Any idea what this is telling me?

How are you drawing the codes?


>
>
> Thanks again. I'll let you know what happens.
>
> Mark Salvetti
> 1986 F150 5.0L
>
> ==========================================================

Bob


--
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superford.org/cgi-bin/sf.cgi?uid=default&vr2=1&ID=311
86XLT/5.0/AOD/8.8/D44 4.56 Detroit/EZ, 36x12.50x16.5, 6"/0"



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:54:06 -0700
From: Bob Kennedy uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Poor Running

Yikes, BIG typo, I meant it eliminate the Air by pass valve!

Bob


Bob Kennedy wrote:

> Mark Salvetti wrote:
>
> > OK, part throttle didn't help.
>
> Eliminates the TPS as the problem. 1 down.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > I pulled the codes, and got 31
>
> EVP out of range, that's the sensor that sits on top of the EGR valve. EGR made
> need cleaning. Carb cleaner works pretty good.
>
> > , followed by 18
>
> Memory code, Loss of tach input, IDM ( Ignition Diagnostics Monitor. A
> continuous monitor of the ignition input to the EEC-IV control module used to
> detect intermittent ignition faults) circuit failure, SPOUT circuit grounded.
>
> > and 63 from the continuous
> > memory.
>
> TPS below minimum voltage. If you tested it low and high, it's probably got a
> dead spot in it. It's a wiper assembly, so the transition from low to high
> should be smooth, not erratic, no flat spots.
>
> > As far as I can tell, the 31 is EGR valve position related, 18 is
> > an erratic tach signal, and 63 is low TPS voltage. With the key on, engine
> > off, the TPS voltage was about 0.8 volts, and I guess it's supposed to be
> > 1.0.
>
> Actually EEC-IV closed throttle .6 volts, full throttle 4.5 volts.
>
> > I didn't check the voltage at different throttle openings, nor with
> > the engine running. I'll probably check that next. I did check the TPS
> > resistance, and it's within spec both open and closed throttle. I haven't
> > checked the EGR valve sensor yet.
> >
> > After checking the codes, I tried to start again, and it's been running fine
> > since. Can the TPS go out intermittently at first? I cleared the memory
> > codes, and decided to wait and see what happens over the next few days.
>
> I'd probably do the same thing.
>
> >
> >
> > The other odd (?) thing is that the engine won't run when I try to check the
> > codes with the engine running. Sounds like it's about to start, but then it
> > quits. Any idea what this is telling me?
>
> How are you drawing the codes?
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks again. I'll let you know what happens.
> >
> > Mark Salvetti
> > 1986 F150 5.0L
> >
> > ==========================================================
>
> Bob
>
> --
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superford.org/cgi-bin/sf.cgi?uid=default&vr2=1&ID=311
> 86XLT/5.0/AOD/8.8/D44 4.56 Detroit/EZ, 36x12.50x16.5, 6"/0"
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the
> message.

--
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superford.org/cgi-bin/sf.cgi?uid=default&vr2=1&ID=311
86XLT/5.0/AOD/8.8/D44 4.56 Detroit/EZ, 36x12.50x16.5, 6"/0"



------------------------------

From: FLR150 aol.com
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:09:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Poor Running

In a message dated 5/14/00 9:48:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bobkennedy uswest.net writes:

< < Actually EEC-IV closed throttle .6 volts, full throttle 4.5 volts. > >
Bob,
I think I have to disagree with you here. The stock settings on the TPS
varied from vehicle to vehicle, due to tolerances. The settings can vary from
the .6 up to .98 volts. Most should be set at .90-.97 volts. This will give
the optimum throttle response for the best performance and mileage. As long
as you don't set the TPS above .98 , this is due to the fact that vibration
can cause variances in the readings that the ECM sees.
Later,
Wayne Foy
94 Flareside SC
1999 Fun Ford Weekend
Racing series
#2 Top Truck
Atlanta GA

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:10:49 -0400
From: James Oxley thecore.com>
Subject: Re: Poor Running



FLR150 aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/14/00 9:48:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bobkennedy uswest.net writes:
>
> < < Actually EEC-IV closed throttle .6 volts, full throttle 4.5 volts. > >
> Bob,
> I think I have to disagree with you here. The stock settings on the TPS
> varied from vehicle to vehicle, due to tolerances. The settings can vary from
> the .6 up to .98 volts. Most should be set at .90-.97 volts. This will give
> the optimum throttle response for the best performance and mileage. As long
> as you don't set the TPS above .98 , this is due to the fact that vibration
> can cause variances in the readings that the ECM sees.
> Later,

I have to agree, never seen any EEC-IV ford factory set with a TPS as
low as .6. I agree on the .90 to .98 setting, with the higher .9X
settings being better.

OX

------------------------------

From: "Jerry Isaacs" airmail.net>
Subject: Post-valve-job Problems
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:27:16 -0500

I have a 1990 E250 with a 351 engine. Just reassembled after getting heads
rebuilt. Several problems. Failed to hook up oil pressure sensor and tried
to run engine. Starts immediately but runs rough. Usually idles about 15
seconds and dies abruptly. Restarts fine after about one second of
cranking. I don't think there are any vacuum lines to the transmission
(automatic with overdrive), but it shifts very hard now. I have everything
reinstalled and connected that I know of, except the oil pressure sensor
wire. It acts like there's a big vacuum leak, but sometimes it idles nicely
for 5 to 15 seconds. Transmission was very smooth before the valve job, but
it was only running on 7 cylinders then. BTW, I found the wire for the oil
pressure sensor, but I haven't found the sensor yet. Are there any
illustrations on the internet, or do I have to pull everything off down to
the manifolds and go on a treasure hunt. Any help would be much
appreciated. Would the wire off the oil pressure sender cause the computer
to shut the system down after a few seconds?? Does all vacuum come off the
upper intake manifold? Should it run smoothly to diagnose vacuum leaks if I
plug all those connections, or does that screw up the computer and shut it
down??

Jerry Isaacs


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 19:56:22 -0700
From: Bob Kennedy uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Poor Running

Well, I have 2, '86 and '92 302s. Both are at the low end. '86 sees .62, '92 sees
.64 and the '86 is all brand new, hasn't been turned over yet. So, I may tweak it a
little to see what it does.

Bob


James Oxley wrote:

> FLR150 aol.com wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 5/14/00 9:48:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > bobkennedy uswest.net writes:
> >
> > < < Actually EEC-IV closed throttle .6 volts, full throttle 4.5 volts. > >
> > Bob,
> > I think I have to disagree with you here. The stock settings on the TPS
> > varied from vehicle to vehicle, due to tolerances. The settings can vary from
> > the .6 up to .98 volts. Most should be set at .90-.97 volts. This will give
> > the optimum throttle response for the best performance and mileage. As long
> > as you don't set the TPS above .98 , this is due to the fact that vibration
> > can cause variances in the readings that the ECM sees.
> > Later,
>
> I have to agree, never seen any EEC-IV ford factory set with a TPS as
> low as .6. I agree on the .90 to .98 setting, with the higher .9X
> settings being better.
>
> OX
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the
> message.

--
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superford.org/cgi-bin/sf.cgi?uid=default&vr2=1&ID=311
86XLT/5.0/AOD/8.8/D44 4.56 Detroit/EZ, 36x12.50x16.5, 6"/0"



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:26:38 -0500
From: Larry Schmiedekamp angelo.edu>
Subject: Re: Pls help diagnose my AOD

Or the dinky plastic clip that holds the tv cable to the carb. linkage has
broken and the cable has dropped out. If you drive at highway speed it will
burn up the trans. Lost 2 that way. They have come out with a brass clip.
It seems to have solve the problem. Been there, done that..

Larry


At 02:49 PM 5/12/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Transmission shift points and fluid pressure are maintained by TV cable.
It is the second cable connected to Throttle Body (EFI) and regulates the
AOD fluid pressure.
>Sounds like the cable is loose.
>
>Bob
>
>
>BSchinskiaol.com wrote:
>
>> Something occurred very suddenly last evening which I am unable to
diagnose. Within a five-minute period, I noticed that it didn't shift into
OD on a level road at 55 like it always had before. Then, it wouldn't shift
into third. Then second.
>> I checked the fluid this morning and it is very pink, very clean and at
the right level. I crawled underneath and with my wife's help, verified
that the shifter and the rod connected to the throttle are operating
correctly. Then I took it to work. Here are the symptoms:
>> It will only shift to a higher gear when the rpm's exceed 3000-3300. I
cannot force it to shift by letting off the accelerator. I can get it into
third gear on the freeway but not OD. The shifts, when they occur, are very
quick and firm.
>> When I remove pressure on the accelerator, it remains in gear and engine
braking slows the vehicle until the revs drop below about 2000 at which
point they drop to an idle and the vehicle coasts freely. Any ideas on what
may be wrong and what it will take to fix this tranny? Thanks for your help.
>>
>> ==========================================================
>> To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
>> the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the
>> message.
>
>--
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superford.org/cgi-bin/sf.cgi?uid=default&vr2=1&ID=311
>86XLT/5.0/AOD/8.8/D44 4.56 Detroit/EZ, 36x12.50x16.5, 6"/0"
>
>
>==========================================================
>To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
>the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the
>message.
>
>


------------------------------

From: "Dave Resch" sybase.com>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:25:01 -0600
Subject: PartsVoice URL


>From: FLR150aol.com
>
>PartsVoice? If that is a parts search
>service, post the URL or insert a link.
>I am always looking for new sources
>to search for.

Yo Wayne:

The URL is www.partsvoice.com. I was turned on to it by a guy at a local
dealership parts dept. A lot of dealers use it to search for parts they don't
have in stock. The best thing is, if you know the Ford OEM part number, you can
search by the number. Most Ford dealers are on their network.

Dave R (M-block devotee)



------------------------------

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