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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 80-96-list); Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:02:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server To: 80-96-list digest users Reply-to: 80-96-list  ford-trucks.com Subject: 80-96-list Digest V2000 #53 Precedence: bulk ========================================================== Ford Truck Enthusiasts 80-96 Truck Mailing List Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the message. ========================================================== ------------------------------------ 80-96-list Digest Mon, 03 Apr 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 053 In This Issue: Re: Idle Speed Motor Re: Oil fuel filter removal Re: fuel filter removal Re: fuel filter removal Re: fuel filter removal Temperature Sending Unit Tailgate Up? Or Tailgate Down? OT: electrical question Re: Tailgate Up? Or Tailgate Down? Please help me out, charity is a very good thing. Mystery connector jpeg Re: Mystery connector jpeg Re: Temperature Sending Unit Re: Mystery connector jpeg Re: Mystery connector jpeg Re: Mystery connector jpeg Re: Mystery connector jpeg Re: Mystery connector jpeg Mystery Connector Solved Re: Mystery Connector Solved Re: Mystery Connector Solved Re: Still want info on taking control of TC Lockup!!! Re: Fuel Pump Runs Constantly?? Re: Idle Speed Motor Re: Idle Speed Motor Re: taking control of TC Lockup!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:15:58 -0700 From: Chuck Sanborn Subject: Re: Idle Speed Motor At 01:48 PM 4/3/00 -0400, you wrote: ><< For example, read what Wayne mentions in his post...replaced 3 > ECMs and didn't cure a thing. On yours and others advise I cancelled the purchase of the computer. Sheesh...I shoulda told my wife "no way do we want this truck. It's got a computer!!" Chuck Sanborn Torrance, CA 1964 Falcon Sprint 1986 F150 six banger (Hers) ------------------------------ From: FULSZBRONC aol.comDate: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:16:16 EDT Subject: Re: Oil treefort prodigy.net writes:<<< AND did you know that some new cars escpecially hi-po corvettes(rattly trap) eat oil when they get older. bu the customers usually don't know hot to check the oil so when they take it in to get the oil changed it is low but they just change it and fill it up again. we have a 1996 Chevy impalaSS with the LS1(I know.I know this is a ford list) but we have been running regualr oil in it and it has 80,000 on it with no oil problems. >>> True. I know of a couple of LS1 engines that were broke in with Valvoline synthetic oil (apparently before it was re-formulated) and now at over 40,000 miles they both need to add a quart of oil every 700-800 miles. But, it that because of the oil... or the fact the owners run the s**t out of them? I'm a firm believer of regular oil changes. On all of my personal vehicles,(mostly Fords) I've always changed the oil (& filter) every 3,000 - 3,500 miles.... costs less than $10.00. So, I don't see any point in paying more for synthetic oil on the promise of longer oil change intervals when I've NEVER had an engine go sour on me with less than 250,000 miles on it. If you want to make an engine last: keep it tuned-up, keep the air filter clean, change the oil on a regular basis and give the engine a chance to circulate the oil a few seconds after the oil pressure gauge tops out - before dropping the hammer - every time you start it. BTW Joel, are you sure your '96 has a LS1? ...and not a LT1 engine? I didn't think the LT1 was available before 1997. Alex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:58:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Christopher Funk Subject: fuel filter removal Hello all. Yesterday I tried to remove the fuel filter from my 94 F150 (300, 4wd, SC, dual tanks). I have the "special tool" to disconnect the fittings, and was able to get the front (output of filter) fitting off. However the rear (input to filter) fitting is almost totally inaccessible due to the location of the fuel filter ( between the frame rail and the front fuel tank). I spent almost an hour trying to get the rear fuel line fitting off without any luck. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to how to make this easier. Thanks in advance. Andy Funk ------------------------------ From: "Michael R. Dunbar" Subject: Re: fuel filter removal Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:14:06 -0400 Instead of using the "tool" try using two standard screwdrivers. I replaced my fuel filter on my 89 F-150 a few weeks ago, and that's all I used. If you break the plastic clips, it's no big deal, as fuel filters come with new ones in the box. Otherwise, best of luck Mike Dunbar 89 F-150 XLT Lariat White River Jct., Vermont http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.xoom.com/mdunbar420/truck.htm "Just remember, the wheel's spinning but the hamster's dead" -----Original Message----- From: 80-96-list-bounce ford-trucks.com[mailto:80-96-list-bounce ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of AndrewChristopher Funk Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 2:59 PM To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.comSubject: [80-96-list] fuel filter removal Hello all. Yesterday I tried to remove the fuel filter from my 94 F150 (300, 4wd, SC, dual tanks). I have the "special tool" to disconnect the fittings, and was able to get the front (output of filter) fitting off. However the rear (input to filter) fitting is almost totally inaccessible due to the location of the fuel filter ( between the frame rail and the front fuel tank). I spent almost an hour trying to get the rear fuel line fitting off without any luck. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to how to make this easier. Thanks in advance. Andy Funk ========================================================== To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com withthe words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the message. ------------------------------ From: "Mahaffey, Chris M" Subject: Re: fuel filter removal Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:35:12 -0400 They changed the style of connector somewhere along the line, I think in 92 and the newer ones require a special tool. I learned this when it took me 3 hours to change the fuel filter the first time on my 92. I had changed the one on my Dad's 88 and it had the connectors with plastic clips. Chris >Instead of using the "tool" try using two standard screwdrivers. I replaced >my fuel filter on my 89 F-150 a few weeks ago, and that's all I used. If you >break the plastic clips, it's no big deal, as fuel filters come with new >ones in the box. Otherwise, best of luck ------------------------------ From: FULSZBRONC aol.comDate: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:51:05 EDT Subject: Re: fuel filter removal afunk darkwing.uoregon.edu writes:<< Yesterday I tried to remove the fuel filter from my 94 F150 (300, 4wd, SC, dual tanks). I have the "special tool" to disconnect the fittings, and was able to get the front (output of filter) fitting off. However the rear (input to filter) fitting is almost totally inaccessible due to the location of the fuel filter ( between the frame rail and the front fuel tank). I spent almost an hour trying to get the rear fuel line fitting off without any luck. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to how to make this easier. Thanks in advance. Andy Funk >> I've never found an easy way to change these filters... I don't know why Ford couldn't mount them just a few inches further forward, it would make it so much easier to access the rear fitting on the filter. Their thinking may be that it is better protected tucked into the frame behind the tank. Since you have the tool, that's half the battle. It helps sometimes to unbolt the bracket from the frame so you can drop the filter down to where you can both hands in there, insert the tool and push the filter towards the fuel line before you try to separate them. I've had some really tough ones that I got apart only after soaking them in penetrating oil. Hang in there!! You'll get it. ------------------------------ From: "James Hannon" Subject: Temperature Sending Unit Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 16:27:52 -0500 Hi All, I have a 92 F-150 with a straight 6 300 4x4 and I'm having a problem finding the temp. sending unit for the temperature gage. In my shop manual it shows it to be to the left of the oil filter, but when I went to the auto parts store the sender they tried to sell me was smaller and had only one pin. The unit onthe block has two. Another auto parts store sold me one to replace the sender on the thermostat housing, but I'm not sure if thats the unit for the gage. Can someone tell me which sender is for the gage and where I can find the right one? Thanks, Jim Hannon 1992 F-150 Super Cab 4x4 ------------------------------ From: "Michael R. Dunbar" Subject: Tailgate Up? Or Tailgate Down? Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:51:42 -0400 Since I was off last week for Spring break, I took the fiberglass cap off my truck, did some minor work, etc (Most of the time, I was stuck in the garage fixing my dad's Ch*vy Astro van) Anyway, coming back to school, I decided to leave the cap at home, figuring the reduction of weight "might" get me better gas mileage. So now I'm wondering, the age-old debate of leaving the tailgate up or down during highway travel. What is better for gas mileage? Mike Dunbar 89 F-150 XLT Lariat White River Jct., Vermont http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.xoom.com/mdunbar420/truck.htm "Just remember, the wheel's spinning but the hamster's dead" -- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Listar -- -- Type: application/ms-tnef -- File: winmail.dat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:24:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Mazzone Subject: OT: electrical question hey everybody, I was working on my friends 98 mustang gt this weekend. He wanted me to install some neon lights for him. I had them all wired up and working but then i went to change the wires on the switch to make the switches light up too. When i grounded the switches to see if they worked it seemed fine then i pulled the wire away and i heard a slight buzz sound. i thought i blew a fuse because i was using the illumination fuse to power the neon's, but all were fine. But now the dash lights don't come on when you turn on the lights. the only way i can get them to come on is if i turn the interior light switch on. If anybody can help me figure out what happened i would greatly appreciate it. thanks a lot Gary Mazzone 95 f-150 flairside 4x4 _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp ------------------------------ From: Scrangler83 aol.comDate: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:36:19 EDT Subject: Re: Tailgate Up? Or Tailgate Down? down on our Ram gains about 1-2 Mpg's, enough to make us leave it down on all trips Tom ------------------------------ From: JCCavrunner aol.comDate: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:43:51 EDT Subject: Please help me out, charity is a very good thing. If anyone has any car parts they don't use or don't want please, I'll take almost anything. I am looking for flowmasters, maybe a hood with a vent in it or something, a new radio. I just lost a lot of money and am trying to fix up an old truck my dad just gave me. It is a 1982 Ford Ranger with a 1987 Mustang engine in it I know this sounds like a lot of BS, but I am young and do not work as much as everyone else. Seriously, if anyone has any parts they don't want lying around anymore, E-mail me for more info and I'll gladly give them a good home. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:54:15 -0700 From: chuck sanborn Subject: Mystery connector jpeg OK, I now have a digital picture of this mystery connector if some one on the list would like to try to identify it. I believe it's supposed to be the ECC power relay but it doesn't have anywhere to go. I am not sure that the computer is the correct one....On this connector there is one battery wire (always hot) one that's hot with the key on and two others that will give a small spark to the probe but will not light the test light. The computer in the truck has a space for only the 60 connector and nothing else. I am still looking for ideas. Thanks ------------------------------ From: AWood70928 aol.comDate: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 21:05:46 EDT Subject: Re: Mystery connector jpeg In a message dated 4/3/00 8:54:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, slammer deltanet.com writes:<< OK, I now have a digital picture of this mystery connector if some one on the list would like to try to identify it. >> Heck, I'll take a look - might not have a clue but I'll look. you can send it to AWood70928 aol.comal ------------------------------ From: FULSZBRONC aol.comDate: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 21:15:42 EDT Subject: Re: Temperature Sending Unit Coolant temp sensor should be on RH rear of engine above the starter motor ------------------------------ From: "L Chapman Jones" Subject: Re: Mystery connector jpeg Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:04:03 -0400 After 20....(lost count)...years in Ford Parts, let's see the digi-photo and see if we can identify it.... Les lcjones kentuckymusician.net-----Original Message----- From: AWood70928 aol.com To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com <80-96-listford-trucks.com>Date: Monday, April 03, 2000 21:11 Subject: [80-96-list] Re: Mystery connector jpeg >In a message dated 4/3/00 8:54:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >slammer deltanet.com writes:> ><< OK, I now have a digital picture of this mystery connector if some one > on the list would like to try to identify it. >> > >Heck, I'll take a look - might not have a clue but I'll look. > >you can send it to AWood70928 aol.com> >al >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with>the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the >message. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:11:13 -0700 From: chuck sanborn Subject: Re: Mystery connector jpeg At 10:04 PM 4/3/00 -0400, you wrote: >After 20....(lost count)...years in Ford Parts, let's see the digi-photo and >see if we can identify it.... OK Les...You seem like you "may be da man..." Here ya go Chuck -- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Listar -- -- Err : No filename to use for decode, file stripped. -- Type: image/jpeg -- File: Mystery Connector.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:18:29 -0700 From: chuck sanborn Subject: Re: Mystery connector jpeg At 10:04 PM 4/3/00 -0400, you wrote: >After 20....(lost count)...years in Ford Parts, let's see the digi-photo and >see if we can identify it.... Les...send me your address again. I screwed up and don't know where you went :-| Chuck ------------------------------ From: FLR150 aol.comDate: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:33:39 EDT Subject: Re: Mystery connector jpeg Send it to me too. I have been playing with the wiring on mine enough to probably help you figure it out. Later, Wayne Foy 94 Flareside SC 1999 Fun Ford Weekend Racing series #2 Top Truck ------------------------------ From: FLR150 aol.comDate: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:41:25 EDT Subject: Re: Mystery connector jpeg BUT remember, you must send it to us, not the list. The list program will strip the file so it wont waste the bandwidth being used. Later, Wayne Foy 94 Flareside SC 1999 Fun Ford Weekend Racing series #2 Top Truck ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 20:37:32 -0700 From: chuck sanborn Subject: Mystery Connector Solved Thanks to Al Wood, Les Jones and Wayne Foy from this list and "Cop Car George" Chang from Fordnatics, the mystery is solved. It is a connector the the ECC Power Relay! I want you guys to know that I really appreciate all the help given to me in this little dilemma and for all the other help that others have given me since I bought this "cheapie" truck and a bed load of headaches. I don't much care of auto electronics to begin with and this truck is really throwing me for some loops. But thanks to this group I am slowly sorting through this project. When it gets down to the sanding and prep part, that will seem easy compared to what has gone on so far. Thanks to ya'll. Chuck "When your up to your butt in alligators it's hard to remember that you only came in to drain the swamp!" ------------------------------ From: FLR150 aol.comDate: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:41:52 EDT Subject: Re: Mystery Connector Solved In a message dated 4/3/00 11:38:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, slammer deltanet.com writes:<< Thanks to Al Wood, Les Jones and Wayne Foy from this list and "Cop Car George" Chang from Fordnatics, the mystery is solved. >> (blushing) No problem. Glad to help. I have received a huge amount of help from this list also. What comes around goes around....now if I can just find my problem and get it solved before the Atlanta Fun Ford event. I am close to a solution now I think. Been brainstorming with some ford techs and a diagram of all the connections and sensors. Oh and to Phred, got the part, THANKS!!! Later, Wayne Foy 94 Flareside SC 1999 Fun Ford Weekend Racing series #2 Top Truck ------------------------------ From: FLR150 aol.comDate: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:45:45 EDT Subject: Re: Mystery Connector Solved Also, for all of you who are interested, I made the April 2000 edition of MMFF in name alone. Page 200, shows my name in the points section and a blurb about me in the breakdown of the event under the Top Truck section. My 15 minutes and 56000 copies of fame...=) Later, Wayne Foy 94 Flareside SC 1999 Fun Ford Weekend Racing series #2 Top Truck ------------------------------ From: "DannyF" Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 08:03:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Still want info on taking control of TC Lockup!!! > I am starting to believe that everything the E4OD behind my 7.3 is doing > wrong is TC related. > If I can toggle switch it out of service, it would tell the story. > Please???? > > Dave H. Dave, I've heard of plenty of guys manually controlling their TCs. Usually wired toggle switch to open/close circuit from dash. Alternatively, trans shops have a tool that lets them hook up to the TC, drive around opening.closing circuit to test operation. Even the budget mom/pop shop I was at had one. Cost very little for them to test. Danny fitz011 ev1.net------------------------------ From: "DannyF" Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 08:46:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Runs Constantly?? > My 87 Bronco has developed a problem I could use some help on. It seems that > the frame rail mounted fuel pump wont shut off. It runs constantly. I've > disconnected the battery to stop it from running but any ideas on where to > start? Looking at the wiring diagrams I was thinking maybe the ignition > switch? But I don't seem to have power to anything else with the key off > (except things that don't go through the ignition switch like lights and > such), and the wipers don't work with the key off. All I know is that the > fuel pump relay is energized constantly. Maybe the relay? Stuck closed? > But it seems that even of it was, there would not be power to the pumps with > the ignition switch off. It's a new relay, replaced about two months ago. > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Certainly a logical question. I'm not sure *why* its wired that way but it is. If the contacts stick in the relay the FP will run w/engine off. Seen it several times. Try this: when it does it, tap on the relay w/a wrench, screwdriver, etc. and see if it goes off. Most of the time it will(unless the contacts are hopelessly stuck/welded together). With this problem its usually the ign switch or relay(heavily favored) and look like you've eliminated the ign switch since nothing else is on when this happens. Danny fitz011 ev1.net------------------------------ From: "DannyF" Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:41:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Idle Speed Motor > >It sounds like your computer isn't doing a damn thing. > >Power/ground/connection tracing seems relevant here. > > Danny, > Well, I thought that I would at least do a contiuity on the > STI connector to make sure the wires still go from one > end to the other and I have continuity there. However, > while checking for the pin locations for the other test > connector I saw a note that said "Do not use a DVOM" > to probe the ECM connector otherwise the connector will > be ruined'". "Use a breakout connector". This information > comes from Alldata. > Alldata does cannot find the work breakout connector on > it's search engine...What the hell is a breakout connector > and where do I find one. I see Chuck, you figured out its called a "breakout box". Its sort of a generic term for an electronic switching device. It allows you to control/test circuits electonically and more easily than you probing w/a voltmeter. There are all kinds. They make them for audio, video, computer equipment, etc. For example, you can get a box a Radio Shack that allows you to control 2 VCRs, 4 speakers, DVD, etc. Thats generically called a breakout box. I think he reason why AllData is warning about the use of a breakout box rather than a meter is because the pins in a auto computer are so close together that one small slip w/a meter probe to those pins can blow your computer. I don't know if your going to get one...their usually kind of expensive($100-250) and aren't universal. > A dumb question, this next one: Is a Volt/Ohm Meter the > same as a DVOM? Or can I use my V/O Meter to continue > tracking down possibilities with the worry of screwing up the > ECM connector? DVOM just means DigitalVoltOhmMeter. Sounds like you have the analog(plain sweeping needle on scales?). Heard pros and cons on this. I *know* the DVOM is safer. But in either case, like I said before, one wrong move w/those probes in a crowded pin array and you can smoke your computer(PCM, as Ford likes to call it). Especially using continuity tests. That test puts a little voltage thru the circuit and the meter reads it on the other end. Danny fitz011 ev1.net------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 08:09:41 -0700 From: Chuck Sanborn Subject: Re: Idle Speed Motor At 09:41 AM 4/4/00 -0500, you wrote: >I see Chuck, you figured out its called a "breakout box". Ya, sometimes it takes me awhile to get things straight! That breakout box for my ECM is almost 500 bux. Not that it much matters now as I discovered last night that there was no EEC Power Relay installed. I had this empty receptacle connector and thanks to a few guys on the list that identified that connector from a digital photo I sent them, my problems are solved....at least I hope so. I will get that relay tonight and install it and hopefully get a signal at my self test connectors and will be able to do a scan. This is why I try to stick to pre-computer and pre-smog cars ;-) Chuck ------------------------------ From: "David Anderson (EUS)" Subject: Re: taking control of TC Lockup!!! Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:03:42 -0500 > >From: "Dave Harmier" > >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 18:23:19 -0500 > >I am starting to believe that everything the E4OD behind my 7.3 is doing > >wrong is TC related. > >If I can toggle switch it out of service, it would tell the story. > >Please???? > > Found this out from this list. You can drive around with the torque > converter lockup temporarily disabled by turning on the 4 way flashers. > Of course you need to select a good time and place to try this. It is > also possible to disable TC lockup altogether but tranny shops say the > excessive heat will be sure death for an E4OD. > > Good Luck, > David Anderson > ------------------------------ End of 80-96-list Digest V2000 #53 ********************************** ---------------------------------------------------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts 80-96 Truck Mailing List Send posts to 80-96-list ford-trucks.comIf you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send an email to: listar ford-trucks.comwith the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the message. Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com ---------------------------------------------------------- .... To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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