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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 80-96-list); Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:46:22 -0500 (EST)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:46:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: 80-96-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
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Subject: 80-96-list Digest V2000 #30
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80-96-list Digest Thu, 09 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 030

In This Issue:
Re: Chevy vs Ford engines
Re: Chevy vs Ford engines
Re: please help
Re: Subject: MSD/300I6 trial...Thanks Mr. Bill!!
Oil Pan Removal
Re: Food for thought
MSD & plug gaps
Gas Cap
Re: Thumpin' floor
Crank Pulley Timing Mark
battery boil over
Re: MPG and low end
ADMIN: Archives online, this time for real!
Re: Crank Pulley Timing Mark
Re: Oil Pan Removal
Re: Food for thought
Re: battery boil over
Re: Crank Pulley Timing Mark
Need Power Door Lock Actuator--Cheap Sources?
Re: battery boil over
Re: Oil Pan Removal
Re: Need Power Door Lock Actuator--Cheap Sources?
Re: Oil Pan Removal
Re: Need Power Door Lock Actuator--Cheap Sources?
Re: Oil Pan Removal
Re: Oil Pan Removal

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Chevy vs Ford engines
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:34:32 -0500

If they haven't done it yet they aren't going to. There is enough
discussion on chevies in all the extremely prejudiced rags and other lists,
we don't need it here. That's my personal opinion. BTW, the least
prejudiced rag I've read so far is the Petersen's "Custom Classic Trucks".
They do a lot of ford articles and are a quality rag :-) (IMNSHO :-))

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>Hopefully Ford reads the list and will support aftermarket companies
>attempts to build performance enhancing accessories at a reasonable
>price. Discussion on this list to accomplish that end is
>helpful.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:31:36 -0500
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: Chevy vs Ford engines

At 08:34 AM 3/9/00 -0500, you wrote:
>If they haven't done it yet they aren't going to. There is enough
>discussion on chevies in all the extremely prejudiced rags and other lists,
>we don't need it here. That's my personal opinion. BTW, the least
>prejudiced rag I've read so far is the Petersen's "Custom Classic Trucks".
>They do a lot of ford articles and are a quality rag :-) (IMNSHO :-))

Check out Auto Restorer, if you can find it. Its a black and
white magazine that covers *everything* in great detail. No
more focus on one brand than another. Heck, there was even
a series on the Datsun Z cars and an article on the Nash
Metro's (and yes, they do cover 80s cars/trucks as well).

Ken Payne



------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: please help
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:21:51 -0500

WOT at 3200 would be about 28 degrees but unloaded, steady state with vac
installed and properly hooked up might net you 36-40 degrees total at 3200.

The stumble is not directly timing related, it is mixture related and timing
has to then work with the mixture you have. If the transition is too lean
it will stumble, regardless of timing but once you have the mixture right
the timing needs to work with it under varying conditions which is why the
vac was invented in the first place. This is what gives it "drivability".
Without it you can't change timing to match the engines needs.

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>what advace timing it is pulling. the guy at summit tech said
>it should be around 36 timing and 3200 rpm

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Subject: MSD/300I6 trial...Thanks Mr. Bill!!
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:14:52 -0500

When I installed a set of Motorsport wires my idle went up noticeably and
the engine did run smoother. I would venture to guess your fire will be
more reliable at higher rpms and cylinder pressures now which certainly will
make a difference but if your system was already firing well under those
conditions, don't expect miracles :-)

Longer spark duration and higher intensity will certainly help a higher
compression engine but may have less imact on a low compression engine. The
higher the compression the closer the gap must be with a given spark
intensity. The leaner you run it the wider the gap should be and thus the
more important the ignition energy becomes for that reason.

If you are running 8:1 compression and a Holley carb with slightly rich
characteristics then a wider gap is not necessary or perhaps even desirable
but if you are running as lean as you can then wider gaps will help fire
more reliably and also generate a better flame front. As compression goes
up you need to either increase the engergy of the spark or narrow the gap
and if you are also running very lean then you have a paradox that will end
in a compromise.

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>I noticed that the curb idle jumped up a little less than 100 rpm with
>the MSD5. Is this a sign of the promised improvement in efficiency?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:41:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Lane excite.com>
Subject: Oil Pan Removal

I would like to know if replacing crank bearings in a 5.0L is possible w/
the engine still in the truck. I have an 89 F250 4x4 and need to replace
the bearings. I'm hoping that it can be done w/o having to pull the engine.
If anyone has done this, please pass along any pointers or pitfalls that I
should watch out for.

Thank you.
Roger

"Time is the best teacher; unfortunately it kills all it's students."










_______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

From: kb9odg.mark juno.com
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:43:57 -0600
Subject: Re: Food for thought

I got to see the acual engine that Cat brought to Ford when Ford was
looking at contracting out a Diesel engine. It really is an awsome
looking engine. In talking with one of the guys that was there with the
engine and Ford, he told me that they were the only ones there with an
acuall engine (well, this one is made out of paper, rapid prototyping).
Ford took the engine, dropped it into a truck and Cat thought they had it
is the bag. But then Cat called their guys back and said to forget it
because they had just acquired Perkins Diesel, and Perkins already had an
engine that size. So just think, we could have been driving around Cat
powered trucks if Perkins hadn't of sold.

Just some food for thought...

- Mark Reimers KB9ODG
'66 Bronco 170 I-6, 3-speed, 3.5" suspension lift, 3" body lift, 35"
tires ...
'87 F-150 XLT 4x2 300 I-6, 4-speed, staduim truck sounding, boring no
more

> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 14:55:23 -0800
> Subject: Re: Food for thought
> From: Rob Bryan netgate.net>
>
> I doubt it. Ford has been working very closely with Navistar in the
> design
> of the Next-Generation Navistar 4.5L V6 and 6.0L V8 diesels. If Ford
> wanted
> to use the Cummins diesel they probably would have done so while
> they owned
> a piece of Cummins a few years ago. You can get the ISB in the F-650
> and
> F-750 but I have a feeling that it probably won't be as popular in
> that
> application as the PSD (can be serviced by any Ford dealer) or the
> Cat (much
> more powerful).
>
________________________________________________________________





------------------------------

From: Fred Moreno dualcurve.com>
Subject: MSD & plug gaps
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:32:08 -0700

Bill wrote back;

Thanks, Phred, for the warning; that snake's bitten me
before, but a
little carelessness is easy to find. \

I noticed that the curb idle jumped up a little less than
100 rpm with
the MSD5. Is this a sign of the promised improvement in
efficiency?
Should I dial it back to standard specs? My NGK V-powers
will be coming
up on 10 grand before too long, so maybe I'll gap the new
ones to .055
and see what it does.


Hi Bill,

Well your curb idle came up a bit because of an improvement in the
combustion, so I would venture to say that yes you are going to see a little
improvement in efficiency. Your spark plugs and combustion chamber will
probably start 'cleaning' themselves out a bit, that is blowing out some
carbon buildup (if you had any).

I would certainly bring things back to specifications. One point though, if
you increase your spark gap, you will increase the possibility of picking up
added RF noise in your radio...Not sure if that is critical to you, but I
like to listen to the AM side of the radio, mostly the Talk Shows and I can
pick up a distinct distributor noise during the quiet spots of their
broadcasts. Its not really a bother for me or the spousal unit.

10K only on your spark plugs??? Man I feel guilty now, I don't even think
of changing them unless 25 or 30K have elapsed.

Phred KD5AQB
1995 F-150 4X4 5.0L, Mazda 5-speed and 172K miles.







------------------------------

From: "Michael G" hotmail.com>
Subject: Gas Cap
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 14:15:32 PST

List,

On my 1991 F-150 I have a set of locking caps from Stant, available at
Wal-Mart, etc. I don't have the model#, but it is the locking cap
recommended in the Stant App Book and my check engine light doesn't come on.

Mike
______________________________________________________


------------------------------

From: "Dave Harmier" pdq.net>
Subject: Re: Thumpin' floor
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 18:43:20 -0600

Thanks Jim! I like em too!

I crawled under there and levered against the drivers side rad bushing, and
can't find much except squeaks. The caliper will move a bit, but won't they
all?

It goes to a guy who set the '91 front end right, we'll see what's up.
I let Dad drive it, he says "d*mn, now I know why you wanted it so bad,
after the first drive"

Dave H.
Houston
Stable of Ford trucks!


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:03:37 -0800
From: chuck sanborn deltanet.com>
Subject: Crank Pulley Timing Mark

Motor: 1986 4.9L
There seems to be two possible timing marks on my crank
pulley. One of them is a big notch on the engine side of the
belt. The other is a skinny groove on the belt side of the pulley.
Which one is the correct timing mark? The book "seems" to
show the notch but the other seems like it would be the correct
one to me.
Thanks,
Chuck


------------------------------

From: Srjones219 aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 21:03:20 EST
Subject: battery boil over

What would cause my battery to boil over ? The guage reads in the normal
range. It drops a little when I run the driving lights and headlights at the
same time. Other than that the truck runs great.

Steve Jones SRJones219 aol.com
92 5.0 F150











------------------------------

From: SOBFROGG webtv.net (Scott Mummery)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 20:11:36 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: MPG and low end

Flowmasters are the way to go. As for the 2 or 3 chamber mufflers the
threes aare the way to go. quieter and they build more power.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 21:41:36 -0500
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: ADMIN: Archives online, this time for real!

About 2 weeks ago, the mailing list archives were put on the
web site in searchable form. Unfortunately, there turned out
to be a problem with many of the archive files and they
displayed blank pages. This how now been corrected. The
archives can be found at:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/archives/index.html

Since they aren't accessible via links and only via a search,
your email addresses are protected against spam harvesters.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:56:12 -0800
From: chuck sanborn deltanet.com>
Subject: Re: Crank Pulley Timing Mark

At 06:03 PM 3/9/00 -0800, you wrote:

> The other is a skinny groove on the belt side of the pulley.

I meant to say on the engine side of the belt, also....


------------------------------

From: LGRanch aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:14:37 EST
Subject: Re: Oil Pan Removal

It is not worth the effort to try to pull the pan with the engine in the
truck. Bite the bullet and pull the engine.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:08:51 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki little-mountain.com>
Subject: Re: Food for thought

>I got to see the acual engine that Cat brought to Ford when Ford was
>looking at contracting out a Diesel engine. It really is an awsome
>looking engine. In talking with one of the guys that was there with the
>engine and Ford, he told me that they were the only ones there with an
>acuall engine (well, this one is made out of paper, rapid prototyping).
>Ford took the engine, dropped it into a truck and Cat thought they had it
>is the bag. But then Cat called their guys back and said to forget it
>because they had just acquired Perkins Diesel, and Perkins already had an
>engine that size. So just think, we could have been driving around Cat
>powered trucks if Perkins hadn't of sold.
>

I was once told that the small Cat truck diesels were not well liked. Maybe
they are now better. I know the big Cat inline engines have always been
good.


Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."
Sick of the high fuel tax? Write your congressman
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.house.gov/writerep/



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:16:13 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki little-mountain.com>
Subject: Re: battery boil over

>What would cause my battery to boil over ? The guage reads in the normal
>range. It drops a little when I run the driving lights and headlights at the
>same time. Other than that the truck runs great.
>

Put a reliable volt meter across the battery while it is running. I believe
the maximum charge should be 14.7 volts (corrections welcome). Generaly
overcharging causes the water to evaporate. A short in the battery could do
that too.


Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."
Sick of the high fuel tax? Write your congressman
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.house.gov/writerep/



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 23:00:54 -0600
From: Jim Cannon gtalumni.org>
Subject: Re: Crank Pulley Timing Mark

Use the notch that is on the engine-side of the pulley. On my 1980, you
shine the timing light down from the driver's side, kind of behind the A/C
compressor.

At 18:03 09/03/00 -0800, you wrote:
>Motor: 1986 4.9L
>There seems to be two possible timing marks on my crank
>pulley. One of them is a big notch on the engine side of the
>belt. The other is a skinny groove on the belt side of the pulley.
>Which one is the correct timing mark? The book "seems" to
>show the notch but the other seems like it would be the correct
>one to me.
>Thanks,
>Chuck
>
>==========================================================
>To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
>the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the
>message.
>
>
Jim Cannon
Houston, TX "A Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton and a helluva' engineer!"
'80 Ford F-150 300 I-6 2WD '63 Buick Riviera 401 V-8

------------------------------

From: "Shawn & Jennifer Clark" tyler.net>
Subject: Need Power Door Lock Actuator--Cheap Sources?
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:13:07 -0600

Do any of you know of a discount source for Ford parts? I need a driver's
side power door lock actuator for my 1991 F-150. The dealer quoted an
astounding $101 for this poorly made part (both have failed--don't get me
started.) That's higher than dealer pricing on similar Japanese car parts.
Unlike other parts, this one seems to be dealer only. Are there any
wholesale parts sellers for Ford? I use Brown and Brown Nissan out of
Tempe to get the lowest cost OEM parts for my Nissan (sometimes 50% less
than my local dealer.) Surely some Ford dealer does the same.

Thanks,

Shawn



------------------------------

From: slikness mindspring.com
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:34:26 -0500
Subject: Re: battery boil over

I just had that happen to me, but my amp gauge was reading 3/4 for most of the time. I changed the voltage regulator and it solved the problem.

> What would cause my battery to boil over ?

------------------------------

From: slikness mindspring.com
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:43:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Oil Pan Removal

You will either need to jack the engine up or lift the engine with a cherry picker. Remove your front motor mounts, loosen your tranny mounts and loosen your exhaust. you should be able to 3-4 inches before your intake hits the firewall. Make sure you block the engine up. I put a short 4X4 on each side between the fram mounts and motor mounts. you should then be able to drop the pan and wiggle it out around the oil pickup.

Slik

-I would like to know if replacing crank bearings in a 5.0L is possible w/the engine still in the truck. I have an 89 F250 4x4 and need to replace the bearings. I'm hoping that it can be done w/o having to pull the engine.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:05:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Keith Lawyer yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Need Power Door Lock Actuator--Cheap Sources?

Have you tried:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.worldparts.com/

I bought a power lock solenoid from a 'yard in Cali
that specializes in Ford Trucks. It was $45. It's a
gamble of course, but one I was willing to take after
hearing something like $120 from my local dealer. So
far, the used part has lasted me a year and counting.
Not to mention most 'yards will provide a 90 day
warranty, removing a little of the risk. . .

Keith L.

--- Shawn & Jennifer Clark tyler.net>
wrote:
> Do any of you know of a discount source for Ford
> parts? I need a driver's
> side power door lock actuator for my 1991 F-150.
> The dealer quoted an
> astounding $101 for this poorly made part (both have
> failed--don't get me
> started.)
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------

From: LGRanch aol.com
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 05:34:07 EST
Subject: Re: Oil Pan Removal

I disagree that you can raise the engine on a 5.0L and easily pull the pan.
The engine hits the back of the firewall long before the pan clears the oil
pump. The best you can do is reach inside the pan and unbolt the pump and let
it drop into the pan. Then the pan will come off and you have clearane to the
crank. This becomes very difficult in the reverse. You have to put the pump
in teh pan before you put it in place then reach into the pan lift the pump
and bolt it in place without being able to see it.

Maybe the rasie the engine method works on a 2X4 but not the 4X4s.

Also the original post was about changeing crank bearings. These bearings
need to be properly installed and plastigage should be used in determining
the proper fit. I can not imagine doing a proper job with the engine place
and working from the bottom up.

Before I get dozens of stories-- I know someone has done it before - just
convince me it was easier than taking the 1.5 hours and pulling the motor.

------------------------------

From: LGRanch aol.com
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 05:38:50 EST
Subject: Re: Need Power Door Lock Actuator--Cheap Sources?

The power door lock selinoids are the same as on the the Ford and Mercury
cars (big). the shaft on the end needs to be unscrewed and changed to the
proper one for the truck. I can buy them all day long in NY for $25. The
trick is to get one with a good boot on it. They fall apart very fast.

Also I have been able to repair most of the bad actuators that I have worked
on. Most are just rusted up, so I can pull them apart and clean them up and
they work fine. Sometimes the boot can be repaired with RTV.

------------------------------

From: slikness mindspring.com
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:27:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Oil Pan Removal

The difference is probably with FI. If you've got a carb, you can easy get 6" lift. I've had to change the oil pump on mine and I had plenty of clearance. I wouldn't think there would be much differnce in the 2 WD and 4 WD except for room to scurry around underneath.

Man, if I could pull the engine in 1.5 hours, I'd pull it everytime. I couldn't even pull the new engine back out before I hooked everything up in 1.5 hours! That's awesome.

I've seen people replace the bearings from the bottom without pulling the engine, and I myself enjoy working under the truck (I can take more catnaps that way), but my big concern would be if you've got a bearing problem, there is almost always more than just bearings that you need to replace or you'll be back doing major work on the engine inside of a month. In fact, my mechanic will not pull an engine without replacing it with a short block. He will, however, do an in place overhaul; rings, bearings, heads; but he at least has a lift.

Slik

> I disagree that you can raise the engine on a 5.0L and easily pull the pan. The engine hits the back of the firewall long before the pan clears the oil pump...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 05:46:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Lane excite.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Pan Removal

I want to thank everyone for their insight into replacing bearings w/ the
engine in place. After reading all of your posts and discussing this w/
some local shops, I have come to a conclusion. I'm going to find another
5.0L engine and rebuild it, then swap it w/ the one in the truck. I have
never rebuilt an engine yet, at least not a V8. I have done several small....


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