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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 80-96-list); Sat, 04 Mar 2000 07:58:44 -0500 (EST)
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 07:58:44 -0500 (EST)
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Subject: 80-96-list Digest V2000 #24
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------------------------------------
80-96-list Digest Fri, 03 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 024

In This Issue:
Double Postings
stepside
Re: Cheap tunups :-)
Re: Propane
Re: You kiss your mother with that mouth??
Re: stepside
Re: stepside
Modified Slurs
Re: stepside
Re: Cheap tunups :-)
Re: stepside
Re: Matter Of Principal
Re: Modified Slurs
Re: Modified Slurs
Okay somebody educate me!!!
Re: Modified Slurs
granny for president!
Gas prices / Mileage
Re: Modified Slurs
Re: Modified Slurs
Re: Modified Slurs
On topic?
Re: Exhaust
My apology....
Re: Modified Slurs
Re: My apology....
Re: Cheap tunups :-)
Re: Modified Slurs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Chapman, David P" unisys.com>
Subject: Double Postings
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:39:15 -0500

For the last week or two, I've been getting two copies of each e-mail sent
from the list. Is anyone else having this problem?

Dave
95 Bronco

------------------------------

From: "Joel Thomas" prodigy.net>
Subject: stepside
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:26:27 -0600


I am looking into buying a stepside bed for my 1984 f150
it has the regualr bed so i would be reaplacing it with a different bed
will it bolt right on.

also it has no floor in it how hard to put the wood floor back in it.???


thanks


------------------------------

From: FULSZBRONC aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:48:42 EST
Subject: Re: Cheap tunups :-)

In a message dated 03/03/2000 04:42:39 AM Mountain Standard Time,
gpeters3 visteon.com writes:
<< If you
specifically ask for a tune up, they are under no obligation to make the
engine run well, only bring it to spec so if it has 200k on it they have
done what you asked and are under no liability if the engine runs poorly
when properly tuned due to bad valves, worn rings etc....You and I might
discourage a customer in such a case and not take his money but most garages
wouldn't be that nice :-( >>

Hi Gary,
I think you're a little off the mark by portraying ''most''
garages as unscrupulous. Any reputable repair facility
will employ a knowledgeable service writer that will question
any customer that wants a tune-up. All to often, a vehicle owner
will do his/her own diagnosis (i.e. needs a tune-up ) and take it to a garage
to perform the service and then be less than satisfied when the original
complaint hasn't been rectified (i.e. still runs rough or burns too much
gas). Any shop that wants to stay in business will be very
careful to cultivate a reputation as competent and honest, and explain to the
customer that a tune-up is not a ''cure-all'' --and ask questions, or maybe
even sell some diagnosis time to pin-point the root cause of the complaint.
Time spent with a customer before the job is taken in will save time and
head-aches in the long run. You're probably like many of us on the list, and
do most (if not ALL) of your own work, plus, work on family and friends cars.
Independents and dealerships tend to take care of their customers just like
we take care of family, except they charge MORE! If you know someone doing
business with a garage that will take in work with ''no questions asked'',
tell them to find another shop. I've been in the industry a long time, and
from my observations, the ''Tire Franchise" facilities that also do repairs
are more likely to charge less for minor repairs and tune-ups
but the most likely to sell un-needed work..... but they figure you'll be
back, everyone needs tires at some time or another. That doesn't go for
''all'' or ''most'', just some....and even that is changing for the better.
The auto repair industry has been working on cleaning up its reputation by it
actions rather than using a PR specialist like the politicians use. A recent
poll of consumers (conducted by the Better Business Bureau I believe, I'll
research this again to be sure) , asked them to list their biggest
complaints, contained was the usual list of tele-marketers, home appliance
repairs etc., but auto-repair industry wasn't on the top 10 list (must have
been a first, huh). Sorry for the long post, but when I get painted with the
same brush as "Bubba's Garage and Feed Store", I feel a little bit insulted.
(BTW, I'm not associated with the consumer side of the repair industry
anymore, I'm in the Fleet end of it....less headaches...and, sadly, less $$$)
Alex

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 06:10:44 +1100
From: les williams cyber.net.au>
Subject: Re: Propane

Hi Scott and all others,

Well, I'm learning heaps too, to the best of my knowledge, no govt.
departments use LPG fuelled vehicles outside a few buses, so much for the
preaching on air pollution and we have got to do something. I guess that
reads YOU have to do something, cause we're the Govt., we know all & do very
little in this direction, apart from releasing the EPA 'hounds' on to us.
Bloody typical...
So we have this incredible situation of the state of Texas (and others?)
using propane on Govt. vehicles, but you have a very questionable supply
system, and Down here in the state of New South Wales in Oz we have the
supply system, good & easy, Ford & GM both produce factory stock dual
systems, and NO serious govt. usage. Hmmmm..... Butt Kicking time...

I reckon the two tanks is the way to go, I can get 10-14 days on 160 actual
ltrs of LPG.

The whole problem with the propane argument is I don't want everybody to
convert, cause down here it is considered to be a waste product and as such
is tax free. I still want people to use petrol. - Greedy self centered sod,
arn't I. ;-))

This brings me to another question that was raised at last night's weekly
sewing circle, what do you do with the waste propane/butane/hextane etc.
from the US oil production? Just burn it of?
I do know from our N/West fields we even export LPG to Japan.

Blake, does this fall anywhere near you speciality?

regards
Les
Lost in the Land of OZ


scott wrote:

> All this talk about propane conversions has been quite informative.
> I'm also a government employee who has to endure poorly performing
> propane powered vehicles.
> A in bed tank is a royal pain for us as you have to either
> crawl over all the tools or unload them to fill the tank.(Why does the
> fill valve have to be in the center of the tank?)We have to fill them
> quite often as (probably due to low bid)the tanks are quite small and
> won't last a week.
> The last truck we had converted has 2 tanks mounted up under the bed so
> well that they are invisible without crawling under it.They also ran a
> line to the original hole behind the fuel door for filling.Real sanitary
> job.
> I'm still not convinced propane is for me,but at least now I realize
> it's potential.


------------------------------

From: Fred Moreno dualcurve.com>
Subject: Re: You kiss your mother with that mouth??
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:48:51 -0700

Jerome Kelly wrote:

I propose that all vehicles that are used in the United
States be propane. We should not need so many E-checks.

Phred replies;

Well in reply to the issue of everyone going propane in the US, please
don't,... because then my price goes up due to the sudden and excessive
change in demand...just kidding.

As idealistic as that would be, it still requires changing the mentality of
millions of people, plus educating them about the fuel characteristics, plus
training them how to fill their own vehicles safely, plus drastically
expanding the current fueling infrastructure. Of course the big three would
also have to redesign their models and an assimulation of vehicles in
transition from one fuel to the other would take....5 years???

Last I checked propane was still a by-product of oil, so we are still going
to need to import a lot of it from your "buddies".

Emissions checks would still be required, because as mentioned several
times on this very list, "just because its on propane does not guarantee the
emissions are clean!".
Next time you are around a forklift on propane (one of those nice smelly
ones), whip out your average Wal-mart $ 30 Carbon Monoxide detector and see
what happens. And then stop breathing while you exit the building and
everyone is wondering where is the source of the new alarm they've never
heard before...

I believe I understand your feelings about emissions checks, especially
when you may make every effort to comply with your responsibilities as a
vehicle owner operator in your state, and some goober has a different type
of alternative fueled vehicle emitting clouds of thick blue smoke. That
frustrates me to no end, where's a cop when you need one?
We may not like being reminded of this but owning a driver's license is a
privelege, not a right. There that ought to open up another can of worms.

Regarding your racist statements you made, stop being a caca-head, do what
is "right" and move on.

Phred
1995 F-150 4X4, 5.0L, 5-speed, and I feel good about my QM test!!!

------------------------------

From: BanksRVA aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 15:50:07 EST
Subject: Re: stepside

I have an 82 stepside. I tore out the rotten wood and rusted bedstrips and
laid down 1x6's in it. It was easy.
Joe

------------------------------

From: "Mahaffey, Chris M" ch.etn.com>
Subject: Re: stepside
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 15:54:53 -0500

Is the wheelbase on a stepside the same as a regular truck? I think it
would have to be a shortbed truck to even be close to the same.

-----Original Message-----
From: BanksRVA aol.com [mailto:BanksRVA aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 3:50 PM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [80-96-list] Re: stepside


I have an 82 stepside. I tore out the rotten wood and rusted bedstrips and
laid down 1x6's in it. It was easy.
Joe
==========================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the body of the
message.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 16:56:26 -0500
From: Paul cfw.com>
Subject: Modified Slurs

Since no one wants to offend anyone in this day of super thin skins
(sorry to be truthful, but I grew up in a better, tougher USA when the
motto was "sticks and stones might break my bones but words will never
hurt me"), I suggest substituing the universal slur: CHEVY.

As in: You CHEVY maggot! or I have to go take a CHEVY, etc.

Since this is a Ford list, shouldn't that work, and still cause all but
the most bleeding of hearts to ....yes....smile upon hearing it?

Out of here,

Paul G.

------------------------------

From: RQTHOMSON aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 17:30:11 EST
Subject: Re: stepside

Pressure treated 3/4 inch plywood works well, but if you have a lot of cash
to throw at it, Mar-K (www.mar-k.com) can dress it up with hardwood &
polished aluminum.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 09:49:22 +1100
From: les williams cyber.net.au>
Subject: Re: Cheap tunups :-)

Hi Gary,

First of all, I wouldn't abuse you or any other member on this list, if it
appears to be abuse then I unreservedly apologize right now. To abuse, as
opposed to 'robust discussion' with list posters is counter productive to what
this list is here for, and no matter where in the world it's being read, our
common interest is Ford Trucks. I am coming to you from Australia. I do think a
lot of posters only think they are only communicating with other people in
mainland USA. For some of us outside mainland USA owning & running an 'Effie'
can be a cold & expensive exercise in a land awash with cheap asian, including
Ford badge engineered, imports ;-))

Whilst I am no longer directly involved in the industry, I do have an interest
in what goes on, after all why should I be defending LPG so vigorously, It ain't
the money ..... .'Stupid' is a word that keeps popping up.......

Unfortunately I too have seen the, for the sake of this tune-up argument, the
$185 tune-up. I and most, that I know still come from the old school and
regardless of what they do or don't ask for, the first step is pull the plugs
and do the Compression test. It's easy to do and no rocket science is involved.
If anything gives you that 'Oh Bugger...' feeling, at this point (fails the comp
test for a long list of reasons) stitch it back up and give them the bad news.
The ones that do amuse me are the $300 computer diagnostic centres, that
hopefully tell all, including the birth weight of your next to be born child,
and the simple comp test would have found the basic underlying problem. For a
few years I was privileged (now that's a word rarely associated with the auto
industry) to work for a guy, new to the district, that all he did was carby &
dizzy o/hauls and Tune-ups. Step one Comp test. If it failed the work stopped
and the customer had to take it to another facility for the repairs. When the
vehicle came back the comp test was repeated and in the early days, several
failed yet again. You can draw your own conclusions as to what was actually
being done. A lot of bad blood developed between us and other repair
establishments, as to who the hell did we think we were, - God ? And it came to
pass, that the quality of head work improved especially if they knew that it
would be coming back for the final tune-up here.

Once again, for us that know what is and should be right, it's easy, but for the
average mug punter that knows diddly about the subject, they can and will always
be prime pickings for the less than scrupulous operators, not that there are any
of those operators here, their all over on the XXXXXX list !!! ;-))

I appreciate & agree with Alex's comments on the subject and by his own
argument, the moral of the story is If you feel your being screwed around, then
move on to another establishment where a two way dialogue can be had. I do
believe complaints are down due to the 3, 4, and 5 year factory warranty's so
for this period the owner really had no idea what's going on. I still find it
incredible that a car serviced for 3 years by the selling dealer can still have
chassis proof cote on the original 'yum cha' fuel filter and fittings. At this
point it should have been changed at least twice. Unlucky ? Hmmm I wonder....

....But I'm still having fun in a Ford that hasn't got any fuel filters to block
up and screw up the injectors I don't have......

regards
Les
Lost in the Land Of OZ


"Peters, Gary (G.R.)" wrote:

> That was a hypothetical number based on my very painful experiences with
> garages and at least one experience when I was a Kid working for one but
> don't recall what it cost back then :-) Today, just having them pull your
> truck into the bay cost you $59 at a dealer and the parts and labor are
> added on to that so I figured $185 would be about right :-) If you
> specifically ask for a tune up, they are under no obligation to make the
> engine run well, only bring it to spec so if it has 200k on it they have
> done what you asked and are under no liability if the engine runs poorly
> when properly tuned due to bad valves, worn rings etc....You and I might
> discourage a customer in such a case and not take his money but most garages
> wouldn't be that nice :-(
>
> By the way......I realize I'm in a daze most of the time but I can't put my
> finger on a country named "OZ"?? Abuse me and have a good laugh but lay it
> on me?
> --
> Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
> 78 Bronco Loving, Gary


------------------------------

From: BanksRVA aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:21:07 EST
Subject: Re: stepside

In a message dated 3/3/00 3:56:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
MahafCM ch.etn.com writes:

<< Is the wheelbase on a stepside the same as a regular truck? I think it
would have to be a shortbed truck to even be close to the same. >>

Yes, it is a short bed.
Joe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:21:45 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki little-mountain.com>
Subject: Re: Matter Of Principal

>No one has mentioned the fact that as soon as propane becomes a "primary"
>vehicle fuel it will be taxed just like gasoline, don't kid yourself, as
>I've said many times before, "There aint no free lunch" :-)

Get a horse and become Amish. No road tax on them yet though they cause
more road damage than trucks.

Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:24:13 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki little-mountain.com>
Subject: Re: Modified Slurs

>Since no one wants to offend anyone in this day of super thin skins
>(sorry to be truthful, but I grew up in a better, tougher USA when the
>motto was "sticks and stones might break my bones but words will never
>hurt me"), I suggest substituing the universal slur: CHEVY.
>
>As in: You CHEVY maggot! or I have to go take a CHEVY, etc.

Can we talk about maggot-infested Chevys?


Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."



------------------------------

From: BanksRVAaol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:31:31 EST
Subject: Re: Modified Slurs

In a message dated 3/3/00 5:05:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, thegmancfw.com
writes:

<< Since no one wants to offend anyone in this day of super thin skins
(sorry to be truthful, but I grew up in a better, tougher USA when the
motto was "sticks and stones might break my bones but words will never
hurt me") >>

It doesn't seem as though you grew up at all. Be a man about it and just
admit you had a poor choice in words. As far as your "tough USA", can't you
come up with a better argument than that?
Joe the "Polack"

------------------------------

From: Fred Moreno dualcurve.com>
Subject: Okay somebody educate me!!!
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:46:14 -0700

"Peters, Gary (G.R.)" wrote:

> Remember the discussion originally brought out the fact that a propane
> engine must have a very high compression ratio to get all the use from the
> fuel, much higher than anything currently being produced by OEM's. That
is
> just one item that must be altered. When they convert a vehicle they
simply
> add the fuel supply stuff on an engine not intended to be used with
propane
> so it doesn't matter how poorly or how well it is installed, is still will
> perform poorly due to this.


In the service guidebook: "LPG Gas Carburetion, LPG-2" 1995 published for
the College of the Desert (Palm Desert, CA (619) 773-2596), is a training
program/guidebook for propane technicians. It topics start with decomposing
dinosaurs and ends with OBD diagnostics so it is pretty thourough.
On the subject of compression ratios for propane engines it clearly
recommends that cr's "...be limited to 9:1 for hard working engines because
most LPG blends misbehave at compressions higher than 9:1. Above 12:1
compression ratio little is gained, partially because commercially available
fuels don't act well in such high pressure environments and because
mechanical efficiency begins to cancel out gains in thermal efficiency.",
pg. 6-6 Basic Combustion Theory.
Now I did not write that part of the manual, I wrote other parts dealing
with the electronics, computers and diagnostics. But the guys who wrote that
section were pretty sharp cookies when it comes to building engines and all
had years of experiences do such. Grantded they did not go into what they
meant by "misbehave", but I am going to try and contact these sources and
find out. When I do, I'll post.

Another propane industry guru recommended I rebuild my then engine (Nissan
Z-24 dedicated propane) with the 9.5:1 and no more and was emphatic about
that issue. I was thinking more on the line of 10:1 at least, but was
informed that it would be inefficient and unnecessary. His theory was also
for better thermal efficiency and cooler combustion temps, less chance of
knocking etc...Besides he knew I worked for a company that manufactured all
sorts of gadgets to modify the ignition timing curve and implied that
performance gains could be achieved with minor changes.

So my question; Why is it that propane engines need high compression ratios
when a lot of OEM gasoline powered engines out there today are already
running 9:1 or better?

I will believe you loose performance because;

1) you are introducing a gas (less dense) instead of a liquid (more dense)
into the combustion chamber, ergo, Les suggestion of water injection to cool
(increase the density) the intake air temp.

2) Add the fact that the BTU/gal ratings are 110,000 for gasoline versus
85,500 for propane.

So okay, us gaseous ones are less efficiencient, but hey, we can recurve
our ignition timing so we can ignite the air fuel mixture sooner to push
down on the piston longer (slower flame front = higher octane). LPG-2 list
that gasoline has an octane rating of 82-97 and propane 95-104 which,
although different are not radically different, but I'll take the fuel with
100 or so rating any day over a lower value. This makes a huge difference in
performance. Dedicated applications usually recurve the distributor, but the
dual-lies must use some sort of a timing recurve to use the factory gasoline
timing on gasoline and a modified timing curve for propane. Our product that
we manufacture at Autotronic bases the engine rpm and/or load to calculate
an offset value, so it's not something linear.

One more point, gasoline has an Auto Ignition temperature anywhere in
between 80-300 degrees F, where as propane Auto Ignition is listed as
anywhere from 920-1020 degrees F. Respectively converted numbers in degrees
C are 27-149 versus 493-549. So if each fuel is brought up to that
temperature range, it will eventually ignite somewhere in that range.
This stress the importance of a well maintained ignition system when using
propane. It is much harder to ignite than gasoline.

Well I have been writting this off and on throughout the day, its Friday
afternoon and I have a date with the BBQ and a cold one. Everyone have a
good week-end and be careful.

Phred

------------------------------

From: Eric Sneed REIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Modified Slurs
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:20:15 -0800

Why do we have to talk about hateful things at all?. Also, why do we have to
put down Chevy or any other make to feel good about our fords.

Eric
Proud Ford, Chevy and Nissan owner


------------------------------

From: Eric Sneed REIL.COM>
Subject: granny for president!
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:29:19 -0800

On the lighter side of things....
Gun-toting granny shoots 2 rapists' testicles off
MELBOURNE, Australia -- Gun-toting granny Ava Estelle, 81, was so
ticked-off when two thugs raped her 18-year-old granddaughter that she
tracked the
unsuspecting ex-cons down - - and shot their testicles off!
"The old lady spent a week hunting those bums down -- and when she found
them, she took revenge on them in her own special way," said admiring
Melbourne police investigator Evan Delp.
"Then she took a taxi to the nearest police station, laid the gun on the
sergeant's desk and told him as calm as could be: 'Those bastards will
never rape anybody again, by God.'
Cops say convicted rapist and robber Davis Furth, 33, lost both his penis
and his testicles when outraged Ava opened fire with a 9-mm pistol in the
seedy hotel room where he and former prison cellmate Stanley Thomas, 29,
were holed up.
The wrinkled avenger also blew Thomas' testicles to kingdom come, but
doctors managed to save his mangled penis, policy said.
"The one guy, Thomas, didn't lose his manhood, but the doctor I talked to
said he won't be using it the way he used to," Detective Delp told
reporters. "Both men are still in pretty bad shape, but I think they're
just happy to be alive after what they've been through."
The Rambo Granny swung into action August 21 after her granddaughter
Debbie was carjacked and raped by two knife-wielding creeps in a section
of town bordering on skid row.
"When I saw the look on my Debbie's face that night in the hospital, I
decided I was going to go out and get those bastards myself 'cause I
figured the police would go easy on them," recalled the retired library
Worker.
"And I wasn't scared of them, either -- because I've got me a gun and I've
been shootin' it all my life."
So, using a police artist's sketch of the suspects and Debbie's
description of the sickos' car, tough-as-nails Ava spent seven days
prowling the
wino-infested neighborhood where the crime took place till she spotted the
ill-fated rapists entering their flophouse hotel.
"I know it was them the minute I saw 'em, but I shot a picture of 'em
anyway and took it back to Debbie and she said sure as hell, it was them,"
the
ornery oldster recalled.
"So I went back to that hotel and found their room and knocked on the door
-- and the minute the big one, Furth, opened the door, I shot 'em right
square between the legs, right where it would really hurt 'em most, you
know. Then I went down to the police station and turned myself in."
Now, baffled lawmen are tying to figure out how to deal with the vigilante
granny. "What she did was wrong, but you can't really throw an 81-year-old
woman in prison." Det. Delp said, "especially when all 3 million people in
the city want to nominate her for sainthood."




------------------------------

From: SOBFROGGwebtv.net (Scott Mummery)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:41:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Gas prices / Mileage

Hey folk,
Most the time I just read the e-mails and only reply to a few. Well
time to chime in.
Since people are quite worried about the price of gas, and most of us
are driving trucks that get poor mileage.
There has been a lot of talk about converting to propane. Cost about
$2500.00 to go through and do it right.
The alternative is t try and improve what you have already.
You ask how??? Try some aftermarket stuff.
Replace your oem air cleaner with a K&N filter, put on a more efficient
exhaust system (Flowmaster),Try an after market ignition system. MSD 6AL
and an high energy coil. Try hotter spark plugs NGK . Almost all of our
engines are cast iron they can stand the heat. Speaking of heat how
about an electric fan or a flex fan. For those of us with fuel
injection ad are not afraid to learn how to improve it. Get rid of the
stock fuel injectors and find some after market ones that are more
efficient. Switch out your motor oil, trans fluid, and rear end fluid
for synthetics. Oh and do not forget to adjust the timing and bump the
fuel pressure up a couple of pounds. You would be quite impressed with
what 1.5 to 2 lbs of fuel pressure will do.
The list is getting long but, Hey how about exhaust hedders? They will
enable your engine to make power more efficiently. And do not forget to
keep the proper amount of pressure in the tires. If you want to try
going to the tire store and having nitrogen added to the air in the
tire. It will keep the pressure at a constant.
As you can see there are quite a few things to try for getting better
mileage. I started doing this in 95 when my Brand new F150 w/5.8L got
only 10.5 mpg. Now I am getting 17mpg on 87 octane gas. Not bad if I do
say so myself.
Good Luck, Keep those trucks gas
Scott Mummery
!1995 F150 FLARESIDE SC 4X4 5.8L
86 MUSTANG


And The other thing try to keep the foot light!


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 20:09:55 -0500
From: "Theodore D. Mills" martnet.com>
Subject: Re: Modified Slurs

At 18:24 03/03/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Can we talk about maggot-infested Chevys?
>Blake

Are there any other kind????


Ted

N3KWQ
Aston, Pa

84 Mustang GT (in pieces)
85 Ranger XL 2WD 2.8L
91 F-250 SC 4X4x460
94 Taurus LX wagon 3.8L

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 20:24:05 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki little-mountain.com>
Subject: Re: Modified Slurs

>Why do we have to talk about hateful things at all?. Also, why do we have to
>put down Chevy or any other make to feel good about our fords.
>

I have had them all. Chevy, GMC, Ford, Benz, but no "jap" ones. haha. I
don't think we should put any down either in general as there are good ones
and bad ones by all manufacturers.

I think we are just trying to have some fun here.

Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."



------------------------------

From: FULSZBRONCaol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 20:35:34 EST
Subject: Re: Modified Slurs

<< >Since no one wants to offend anyone in this day of super thin skins
>(sorry to be truthful, but I grew up in a better, tougher USA when the
>motto was "sticks and stones might break my bones but words will never
>hurt me"), I suggest substituing the universal slur: CHEVY.
>
>As in: You CHEVY maggot! or I have to go take a CHEVY, etc. >>

Why do we need to resort to slurs anyhow? They prove nothing except,
perhaps, the users state of mind. I grew up in the same USA as you and
thankfully we're evolving from the single-mindedness that kept us ignorant
and factioned ......and I have a dirty little secret (as other list members
probably share ), that is: I own a Chevy....actually it's an old GMC I keep
out behind the barn for hauling anything that leaks or stinks worse than me.
(Hi, my name is Alex and I own a non-Ford {''Hi Alex''}) I'm not proud of
it, nor am I ashamed, nor am I easily hurt by anyone slamming any of my
rides, in fact I enjoy a little good natured verbal competition and bench
racing..... we just keep it from being derogatory or personally derisive.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 22:57:07 -0500
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: On topic?

Paul,

I'm VERY pro-American, very patriotic, very conservative (go
BUSH!), I love the USA and I'm extremely grateful to those who
sacrificed their lives for my freedoms. But I don't fool
myself about a kinder America that never was.

The same American past you defend also kept women and blacks
from voting, interned Japanese-Americans in WW II, enslaved an
entire race, moved the Cherokee nation across the country
in the dead of winter, stole New Mexico from the Mexicans,
exploited India and South America with the rubber trade, nearly
wiped out the Buffalo, kept the Irish in slums, undermined the
Hawaiian royal family, wiped out entire American Indian tribes
with smallpox.... the list goes on and on. As great of a
nation that the USA is, it still has it's share of black eyes.

Try dealing with being a little boy and having all the kids
in the neighborhood mock your mother when she called you for
dinner. Try picking your mother up one day from her business
because she's scared to drive after the KKK threw a brick at
her shop window after they had a rally at the main intersection
in town. Or the many times the people across the street invited
the neighborhood over for pool parties but not my family (I was
allowed to play with their son though because I didn't have an
accent that bothered them). Being white, and of European decent
didn't matter to the Klan, that family or other kids. Just
remember, your fore-fathers where "damn foreigners" too.

Ethnic slams have no place here. We have people here from
all walks of life and a very devoted Ford truck owner on
the 61-79 list from Saudi Arabia. I'm sure he nothing to do
with the price of oil. Are you willing to email him with
your words? If you really meant it about sticks and stones,
you wouldn't have replied because what we said doesn't
matter, right? But you DID reply......

I apologize for participating in this off topic thread,
especially since I'm the admin, but trying to defend the
slurs really pushed my buttons. I'm usually not so vocal
about off-topic threads. Lets get back to talking about
Ford trucks, I know I find it a much more relaxing topic!
Frankly, this one yanks my chain.

Ken Payne
Son of a damn, job-stealing, Roman Catholic foreigner (who's
shop created 6 jobs) and a whitey, cracker, Baptist, redneck
Southerner.



------------------------------

From: "Nelson Vasconcelos" mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Exhaust
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 23:12:27 -0500

Hi Mike,
I have an 89' F150 4x4 300/6 and I installed a Gibson cat-back exhaust.
I ordered the sweep side kit that runs the same route out back as the stock
exhaust. It came with all the hardware,brackets, a nice stainless steel tip
and was real easy to put in, only took me a couple of hours. I chose the
Gibson kit because it's all 3" mandrel (smooth) bent pipes, a larger 7"
diameter muffler that is the baffled straight through design, it gives a
smooth mellow sound that doesn't bother people in the cab and is the only
kit I found that is recommend for off-road use. If you get the dual kit it
will be a little louder, but don't go crazy, remember it's a work horse
300/6 you have under the hood not a 302. It comes in aluminized steel
(which I have) or stainless steel. Mine is warranted against mfg,
etc...defects for life and the stainless kit is 100% warranted for ever even
if it rusts out. I paid $260 at www.accessconnect.com
Check them out for prices I really shopped around before deciding and
Automotive Accessories Connection had the best deals.

It added a bunch of low end torque that you can really feel when you step on
the gas, they also say it give you 15+ Hp.

Hope I could help,
Nelson



------------------------------

From: "Harris, Scott" dfwairport.com>
Subject: My apology....
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 22:34:22 -0600

I'm sorry, I thought this was the FORD TRUCK mail site, not the "insult the
hell out of people and then post 2000 follow-ups" site.

How 'bout some truck talk?

Can't we all just get along? If not then keep it to yourself and tell me
your truck problems and I'll tell you mine.

------------------------------

From: Lingus0169aol.com
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 00:21:58 EST
Subject: Re: Modified Slurs

i dont see y people are so affended about saying stuff like "chevy sucks",
chevy's are magget infested. i have some die hard chevy friends and we always
joke around and make fun or each other. what's the big deal, his chevy's
often got me here and there, but whats the big deal..its a give and take
situation. other's make fun of fords, and we make fun of everything but
fords. so get over it, its nothing. just some good ol fun.

------------------------------

From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" williams-net.com>
Subject: Re: My apology....
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 00:59:11 -0500

AMEN!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Harris, Scott dfwairport.com>
To: '80-96-listford-trucks.com' <80-96-listford-trucks.com>
Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 11:40 PM
Subject: [80-96-list] My apology....


>I'm sorry, I thought this was the FORD TRUCK mail site, not the "insult the
>hell out of people and then post 2000 follow-ups" site.
>
>How 'bout some truck talk?
>
>Can't we all just get along? If not then keep it to yourself and tell me
>your truck problems and I'll tell you mine.
>==========================================================
>To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
>the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the body of the
>message.
>


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 22:07:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Keith Lawyer yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cheap tunups :-)

> Hi Gary,
> I think you're a little off the mark by
> portraying ''most''
> garages as unscrupulous.

I don't think so :-)

> Any reputable repair
> facility
> will employ a knowledgeable service writer that will
> question any customer that wants a tune-up.

My dad worked for a time as a service writer when he
was a mechanic for a living. He felt he had to quit
because he worked on commission and the shop was
always pushing him to sell unnecessary parts or
service. Also, I'm sure it was (intentionally)
tempting for him to do so since he worked on
commission.
I tend to find service writers annoying. It turns
the shop into a beauracracy. The best shops, which
are quickly disappearing, are ones that are owned,
operated, etc by one person - the mechanic. He is the
service writer, the brake guy, the tranny guy, and you
always talk to him because he is the only one there.
My VW mechanic is like this and he is amazing. And
yes, of course, a one-person shop is still only as
good as that one person. But at least you can talk
directly to the mechanic!

Keith L.

=====
'90 XLT/351/E4OD/4.56/33x12.50/10.25 rear+ARB
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://im.yahoo.com

------------------------------

From: markheidseidata.com
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 07:56:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Modified Slurs

At 16:20 3/3/00 -0800, you wrote:

>Why do we have to talk about hateful things at all?. Also, why do we have to
>put down Chevy or any other make to feel good about our fords.
>
>Eric
>Proud Ford, Chevy and Nissan owner

I have noted a certain tendency amongst many of my coworkers and associates
that if Joe Blow goes out looking for a good used car and comes back with a
Chevy, then suddenly Chevy is the greatest thing on Earth. A year later, when
he goes looking for a used car again, suddenly whatever he comes back with is
the greatest thing on Earth, and his former greatest-thing-on-Earth, the
Chevy,
is now a hunk of sh*t. A fellow I know actually picked up a used Yugo (this
would have been 1988 or so) and the way he talked about it, you'd have
thought
it was the second coming of Christ. He later bought an old Ford Fairlane
for a
project car, and for that three or four months before he "got tired" of it,
Ford
was the absolute fastest, most awesome car ever. Then he went and got a late-
seventies Oldsmobile 88 with a Pontiac 301 for power and he insisted that the
Pontiac 301 was the last word in high-performance.

Personally, I've been a die-hard Ford fan for years, but even I will admit
that
the big three all build tough, reliable trucks and world-class passenger
cars.
It's just that I've never been a fan of GM's styling or the way that the
Chevy V8
has its distributor at the rear of the engine. Certainly Chevy builds a
superior
performance engine. Any fool can see that. You can build a Chevy cheaper
and
better than any other V8 on the planet. Period. That is NOT to say that
Ford
doesn't build a fine engine too. As I said, I prefer Fords. I especially
love
the old tough-as-nails FE engines (352s, 390s and 428s). Those mills could
with-
stand TONS of abuse and neglect and could still torque with the best of
them. But,
my next project car is going to be a '27 T-bucket kit, and since
performance is an
issue, it's gonna be Chevy powered.

I dig the new Dodge fullsize trucks, but I just don't have the cubic
dollars necessary
to own one.

I currently do not own a Ford product, sad but true. My last Ford was a
1977 F100
Stepside, which unfortunately became very intimate with a telephone pole
during a
snowstorm last March. I wasn't speeding, wasn't fooling around, but
another driver
lost control of his or her car and in an attempt to avoid a head-on, I lost
control
of my vehicle as well and that was the result. The collision was a
particularly
ugly one, left me with a very nasty cut on my noggin, and I spent the next
week in
the hospital. During that time, I actually contemplated repairing the
F100, but when
I saw what was left (the vehicle had been pretty much stripped by the time
I got there)
it was quite clear that it wasn't feasible at all.

I happened to come across a very good deal on a decent 1991 S10 so that is
what I drive
for right now. When I find a good deal on an F-series that I like, you can
bet your
bottom dollar that I'll be buying it.

Anyway, that's my two cents. As a current Chevy owner, I am already
stepping into my
asbestos suit in anticipation of the wrath from the group. As a Ford
enthusiast, I
trust the flamethrowers will be set to "toast" instead of "barbecue"......

Mark



------------------------------

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