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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 80-96-list); Sat, 04 Mar 2000 07:58:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 07:58:44 -0500 (EST) From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server To: 80-96-list digest users Reply-to: 80-96-list  ford-trucks.com Subject: 80-96-list Digest V2000 #24 Precedence: bulk ========================================================== Ford Truck Enthusiasts 80-96 Truck Mailing List Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the message. ========================================================== ------------------------------------ 80-96-list Digest Fri, 03 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 024 In This Issue: Double Postings stepside Re: Cheap tunups :-) Re: Propane Re: You kiss your mother with that mouth?? Re: stepside Re: stepside Modified Slurs Re: stepside Re: Cheap tunups :-) Re: stepside Re: Matter Of Principal Re: Modified Slurs Re: Modified Slurs Okay somebody educate me!!! Re: Modified Slurs granny for president! Gas prices / Mileage Re: Modified Slurs Re: Modified Slurs Re: Modified Slurs On topic? Re: Exhaust My apology.... Re: Modified Slurs Re: My apology.... Re: Cheap tunups :-) Re: Modified Slurs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chapman, David P" Subject: Double Postings Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:39:15 -0500 For the last week or two, I've been getting two copies of each e-mail sent from the list. Is anyone else having this problem? Dave 95 Bronco ------------------------------ From: "Joel Thomas" Subject: stepside Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:26:27 -0600 I am looking into buying a stepside bed for my 1984 f150 it has the regualr bed so i would be reaplacing it with a different bed will it bolt right on. also it has no floor in it how hard to put the wood floor back in it.??? thanks ------------------------------ From: FULSZBRONC aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:48:42 EST Subject: Re: Cheap tunups :-) In a message dated 03/03/2000 04:42:39 AM Mountain Standard Time, gpeters3 visteon.com writes: << If you specifically ask for a tune up, they are under no obligation to make the engine run well, only bring it to spec so if it has 200k on it they have done what you asked and are under no liability if the engine runs poorly when properly tuned due to bad valves, worn rings etc....You and I might discourage a customer in such a case and not take his money but most garages wouldn't be that nice :-( >> Hi Gary, I think you're a little off the mark by portraying ''most'' garages as unscrupulous. Any reputable repair facility will employ a knowledgeable service writer that will question any customer that wants a tune-up. All to often, a vehicle owner will do his/her own diagnosis (i.e. needs a tune-up ) and take it to a garage to perform the service and then be less than satisfied when the original complaint hasn't been rectified (i.e. still runs rough or burns too much gas). Any shop that wants to stay in business will be very careful to cultivate a reputation as competent and honest, and explain to the customer that a tune-up is not a ''cure-all'' --and ask questions, or maybe even sell some diagnosis time to pin-point the root cause of the complaint. Time spent with a customer before the job is taken in will save time and head-aches in the long run. You're probably like many of us on the list, and do most (if not ALL) of your own work, plus, work on family and friends cars. Independents and dealerships tend to take care of their customers just like we take care of family, except they charge MORE! If you know someone doing business with a garage that will take in work with ''no questions asked'', tell them to find another shop. I've been in the industry a long time, and from my observations, the ''Tire Franchise" facilities that also do repairs are more likely to charge less for minor repairs and tune-ups but the most likely to sell un-needed work..... but they figure you'll be back, everyone needs tires at some time or another. That doesn't go for ''all'' or ''most'', just some....and even that is changing for the better. The auto repair industry has been working on cleaning up its reputation by it actions rather than using a PR specialist like the politicians use. A recent poll of consumers (conducted by the Better Business Bureau I believe, I'll research this again to be sure) , asked them to list their biggest complaints, contained was the usual list of tele-marketers, home appliance repairs etc., but auto-repair industry wasn't on the top 10 list (must have been a first, huh). Sorry for the long post, but when I get painted with the same brush as "Bubba's Garage and Feed Store", I feel a little bit insulted. (BTW, I'm not associated with the consumer side of the repair industry anymore, I'm in the Fleet end of it....less headaches...and, sadly, less $$$) Alex ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 06:10:44 +1100 From: les williams Subject: Re: Propane Hi Scott and all others, Well, I'm learning heaps too, to the best of my knowledge, no govt. departments use LPG fuelled vehicles outside a few buses, so much for the preaching on air pollution and we have got to do something. I guess that reads YOU have to do something, cause we're the Govt., we know all & do very little in this direction, apart from releasing the EPA 'hounds' on to us. Bloody typical... So we have this incredible situation of the state of Texas (and others?) using propane on Govt. vehicles, but you have a very questionable supply system, and Down here in the state of New South Wales in Oz we have the supply system, good & easy, Ford & GM both produce factory stock dual systems, and NO serious govt. usage. Hmmmm..... Butt Kicking time... I reckon the two tanks is the way to go, I can get 10-14 days on 160 actual ltrs of LPG. The whole problem with the propane argument is I don't want everybody to convert, cause down here it is considered to be a waste product and as such is tax free. I still want people to use petrol. - Greedy self centered sod, arn't I. ;-)) This brings me to another question that was raised at last night's weekly sewing circle, what do you do with the waste propane/butane/hextane etc. from the US oil production? Just burn it of? I do know from our N/West fields we even export LPG to Japan. Blake, does this fall anywhere near you speciality? regards Les Lost in the Land of OZ scott wrote: > All this talk about propane conversions has been quite informative. > I'm also a government employee who has to endure poorly performing > propane powered vehicles. > A in bed tank is a royal pain for us as you have to either > crawl over all the tools or unload them to fill the tank.(Why does the > fill valve have to be in the center of the tank?)We have to fill them > quite often as (probably due to low bid)the tanks are quite small and > won't last a week. > The last truck we had converted has 2 tanks mounted up under the bed so > well that they are invisible without crawling under it.They also ran a > line to the original hole behind the fuel door for filling.Real sanitary > job. > I'm still not convinced propane is for me,but at least now I realize > it's potential. ------------------------------ From: Fred Moreno Subject: Re: You kiss your mother with that mouth?? Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:48:51 -0700 Jerome Kelly wrote: I propose that all vehicles that are used in the United States be propane. We should not need so many E-checks. Phred replies; Well in reply to the issue of everyone going propane in the US, please don't,... because then my price goes up due to the sudden and excessive change in demand...just kidding. As idealistic as that would be, it still requires changing the mentality of millions of people, plus educating them about the fuel characteristics, plus training them how to fill their own vehicles safely, plus drastically expanding the current fueling infrastructure. Of course the big three would also have to redesign their models and an assimulation of vehicles in transition from one fuel to the other would take....5 years??? Last I checked propane was still a by-product of oil, so we are still going to need to import a lot of it from your "buddies". Emissions checks would still be required, because as mentioned several times on this very list, "just because its on propane does not guarantee the emissions are clean!". Next time you are around a forklift on propane (one of those nice smelly ones), whip out your average Wal-mart $ 30 Carbon Monoxide detector and see what happens. And then stop breathing while you exit the building and everyone is wondering where is the source of the new alarm they've never heard before... I believe I understand your feelings about emissions checks, especially when you may make every effort to comply with your responsibilities as a vehicle owner operator in your state, and some goober has a different type of alternative fueled vehicle emitting clouds of thick blue smoke. That frustrates me to no end, where's a cop when you need one? We may not like being reminded of this but owning a driver's license is a privelege, not a right. There that ought to open up another can of worms. Regarding your racist statements you made, stop being a caca-head, do what is "right" and move on. Phred 1995 F-150 4X4, 5.0L, 5-speed, and I feel good about my QM test!!! ------------------------------ From: BanksRVA aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 15:50:07 EST Subject: Re: stepside I have an 82 stepside. I tore out the rotten wood and rusted bedstrips and laid down 1x6's in it. It was easy. Joe ------------------------------ From: "Mahaffey, Chris M" Subject: Re: stepside Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 15:54:53 -0500 Is the wheelbase on a stepside the same as a regular truck? I think it would have to be a shortbed truck to even be close to the same. -----Original Message----- From: BanksRVA aol.com [mailto:BanksRVA aol.com] Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 3:50 PM To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com Subject: [80-96-list] Re: stepside I have an 82 stepside. I tore out the rotten wood and rusted bedstrips and laid down 1x6's in it. It was easy. Joe ========================================================== To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 16:56:26 -0500 From: Paul Subject: Modified Slurs Since no one wants to offend anyone in this day of super thin skins (sorry to be truthful, but I grew up in a better, tougher USA when the motto was "sticks and stones might break my bones but words will never hurt me"), I suggest substituing the universal slur: CHEVY. As in: You CHEVY maggot! or I have to go take a CHEVY, etc. Since this is a Ford list, shouldn't that work, and still cause all but the most bleeding of hearts to ....yes....smile upon hearing it? Out of here, Paul G. ------------------------------ From: RQTHOMSON aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 17:30:11 EST Subject: Re: stepside Pressure treated 3/4 inch plywood works well, but if you have a lot of cash to throw at it, Mar-K (www.mar-k.com) can dress it up with hardwood & polished aluminum. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 09:49:22 +1100 From: les williams Subject: Re: Cheap tunups :-) Hi Gary, First of all, I wouldn't abuse you or any other member on this list, if it appears to be abuse then I unreservedly apologize right now. To abuse, as opposed to 'robust discussion' with list posters is counter productive to what this list is here for, and no matter where in the world it's being read, our common interest is Ford Trucks. I am coming to you from Australia. I do think a lot of posters only think they are only communicating with other people in mainland USA. For some of us outside mainland USA owning & running an 'Effie' can be a cold & expensive exercise in a land awash with cheap asian, including Ford badge engineered, imports ;-)) Whilst I am no longer directly involved in the industry, I do have an interest in what goes on, after all why should I be defending LPG so vigorously, It ain't the money ..... .'Stupid' is a word that keeps popping up....... Unfortunately I too have seen the, for the sake of this tune-up argument, the $185 tune-up. I and most, that I know still come from the old school and regardless of what they do or don't ask for, the first step is pull the plugs and do the Compression test. It's easy to do and no rocket science is involved. If anything gives you that 'Oh Bugger...' feeling, at this point (fails the comp test for a long list of reasons) stitch it back up and give them the bad news. The ones that do amuse me are the $300 computer diagnostic centres, that hopefully tell all, including the birth weight of your next to be born child, and the simple comp test would have found the basic underlying problem. For a few years I was privileged (now that's a word rarely associated with the auto industry) to work for a guy, new to the district, that all he did was carby & dizzy o/hauls and Tune-ups. Step one Comp test. If it failed the work stopped and the customer had to take it to another facility for the repairs. When the vehicle came back the comp test was repeated and in the early days, several failed yet again. You can draw your own conclusions as to what was actually being done. A lot of bad blood developed between us and other repair establishments, as to who the hell did we think we were, - God ? And it came to pass, that the quality of head work improved especially if they knew that it would be coming back for the final tune-up here. Once again, for us that know what is and should be right, it's easy, but for the average mug punter that knows diddly about the subject, they can and will always be prime pickings for the less than scrupulous operators, not that there are any of those operators here, their all over on the XXXXXX list !!! ;-)) I appreciate & agree with Alex's comments on the subject and by his own argument, the moral of the story is If you feel your being screwed around, then move on to another establishment where a two way dialogue can be had. I do believe complaints are down due to the 3, 4, and 5 year factory warranty's so for this period the owner really had no idea what's going on. I still find it incredible that a car serviced for 3 years by the selling dealer can still have chassis proof cote on the original 'yum cha' fuel filter and fittings. At this point it should have been changed at least twice. Unlucky ? Hmmm I wonder.... ....But I'm still having fun in a Ford that hasn't got any fuel filters to block up and screw up the injectors I don't have...... regards Les Lost in the Land Of OZ "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" wrote: > That was a hypothetical number based on my very painful experiences with > garages and at least one experience when I was a Kid working for one but > don't recall what it cost back then :-) Today, just having them pull your > truck into the bay cost you $59 at a dealer and the parts and labor are > added on to that so I figured $185 would be about right :-) If you > specifically ask for a tune up, they are under no obligation to make the > engine run well, only bring it to spec so if it has 200k on it they have > done what you asked and are under no liability if the engine runs poorly > when properly tuned due to bad valves, worn rings etc....You and I might > discourage a customer in such a case and not take his money but most garages > wouldn't be that nice :-( > > By the way......I realize I'm in a daze most of the time but I can't put my > finger on a country named "OZ"?? Abuse me and have a good laugh but lay it > on me? > -- > Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping, > 78 Bronco Loving, Gary ------------------------------ From: BanksRVA aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:21:07 EST Subject: Re: stepside In a message dated 3/3/00 3:56:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, MahafCM ch.etn.com writes: << Is the wheelbase on a stepside the same as a regular truck? I think it would have to be a shortbed truck to even be close to the same. >> Yes, it is a short bed. Joe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:21:45 -0500 From: Blake Malkamaki Subject: Re: Matter Of Principal >No one has mentioned the fact that as soon as propane becomes a "primary" >vehicle fuel it will be taxed just like gasoline, don't kid yourself, as >I've said many times before, "There aint no free lunch" :-) Get a horse and become Amish. No road tax on them yet though they cause more road damage than trucks. Blake Little Mountain Concord, Ohio Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake "Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed." "An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:24:13 -0500 From: Blake Malkamaki Subject: Re: Modified Slurs >Since no one wants to offend anyone in this day of super thin skins >(sorry to be truthful, but I grew up in a better, tougher USA when the >motto was "sticks and stones might break my bones but words will never >hurt me"), I suggest substituing the universal slur: CHEVY. > >As in: You CHEVY maggot! or I have to go take a CHEVY, etc. Can we talk about maggot-infested Chevys? Blake Little Mountain Concord, Ohio Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake "Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed." "An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...." ------------------------------ From: BanksRVA aol.comDate: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:31:31 EST Subject: Re: Modified Slurs In a message dated 3/3/00 5:05:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, thegman cfw.comwrites: << Since no one wants to offend anyone in this day of super thin skins (sorry to be truthful, but I grew up in a better, tougher USA when the motto was "sticks and stones might break my bones but words will never hurt me") >> It doesn't seem as though you grew up at all. Be a man about it and just admit you had a poor choice in words. As far as your "tough USA", can't you come up with a better argument than that? Joe the "Polack" ------------------------------ From: Fred Moreno Subject: Okay somebody educate me!!! Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:46:14 -0700 "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" wrote: > Remember the discussion originally brought out the fact that a propane > engine must have a very high compression ratio to get all the use from the > fuel, much higher than anything currently being produced by OEM's. That is > just one item that must be altered. When they convert a vehicle they simply > add the fuel supply stuff on an engine not intended to be used with propane > so it doesn't matter how poorly or how well it is installed, is still will > perform poorly due to this. In the service guidebook: "LPG Gas Carburetion, LPG-2" 1995 published for the College of the Desert (Palm Desert, CA (619) 773-2596), is a training program/guidebook for propane technicians. It topics start with decomposing dinosaurs and ends with OBD diagnostics so it is pretty thourough. On the subject of compression ratios for propane engines it clearly recommends that cr's "...be limited to 9:1 for hard working engines because most LPG blends misbehave at compressions higher than 9:1. Above 12:1 compression ratio little is gained, partially because commercially available fuels don't act well in such high pressure environments and because mechanical efficiency begins to cancel out gains in thermal efficiency.", pg. 6-6 Basic Combustion Theory. Now I did not write that part of the manual, I wrote other parts dealing with the electronics, computers and diagnostics. But the guys who wrote that section were pretty sharp cookies when it comes to building engines and all had years of experiences do such. Grantded they did not go into what they meant by "misbehave", but I am going to try and contact these sources and find out. When I do, I'll post. Another propane industry guru recommended I rebuild my then engine (Nissan Z-24 dedicated propane) with the 9.5:1 and no more and was emphatic about that issue. I was thinking more on the line of 10:1 at least, but was informed that it would be inefficient and unnecessary. His theory was also for better thermal efficiency and cooler combustion temps, less chance of knocking etc...Besides he knew I worked for a company that manufactured all sorts of gadgets to modify the ignition timing curve and implied that performance gains could be achieved with minor changes. So my question; Why is it that propane engines need high compression ratios when a lot of OEM gasoline powered engines out there today are already running 9:1 or better? I will believe you loose performance because; 1) you are introducing a gas (less dense) instead of a liquid (more dense) into the combustion chamber, ergo, Les suggestion of water injection to cool (increase the density) the intake air temp. 2) Add the fact that the BTU/gal ratings are 110,000 for gasoline versus 85,500 for propane. So okay, us gaseous ones are less efficiencient, but hey, we can recurve our ignition timing so we can ignite the air fuel mixture sooner to push down on the piston longer (slower flame front = higher octane). LPG-2 list that gasoline has an octane rating of 82-97 and propane 95-104 which, although different are not radically different, but I'll take the fuel with 100 or so rating any day over a lower value. This makes a huge difference in performance. Dedicated applications usually recurve the distributor, but the dual-lies must use some sort of a timing recurve to use the factory gasoline timing on gasoline and a modified timing curve for propane. Our product that we manufacture at Autotronic bases the engine rpm and/or load to calculate an offset value, so it's not something linear. One more point, gasoline has an Auto Ignition temperature anywhere in between 80-300 degrees F, where as propane Auto Ignition is listed as anywhere from 920-1020 degrees F. Respectively converted numbers in degrees C are 27-149 versus 493-549. So if each fuel is brought up to that temperature range, it will eventually ignite somewhere in that range. This stress the importance of a well maintained ignition system when using propane. It is much harder to ignite than gasoline. Well I have been writting this off and on throughout the day, its Friday afternoon and I have a date with the BBQ and a cold one. Everyone have a good week-end and be careful. Phred ------------------------------ From: Eric Sneed Subject: Re: Modified Slurs Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:20:15 -0800 Why do we have to talk about hateful things at all?. Also, why do we have to put down Chevy or any other make to feel good about our fords. Eric Proud Ford, Chevy and Nissan owner ------------------------------ From: Eric Sneed Subject: granny for president! Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:29:19 -0800 On the lighter side of things.... Gun-toting granny shoots 2 rapists' testicles off MELBOURNE, Australia -- Gun-toting granny Ava Estelle, 81, was so ticked-off when two thugs raped her 18-year-old granddaughter that she tracked the unsuspecting ex-cons down - - and shot their testicles off! "The old lady spent a week hunting those bums down -- and when she found them, she took revenge on them in her own special way," said admiring Melbourne police investigator Evan Delp. "Then she took a taxi to the nearest police station, laid the gun on the sergeant's desk and told him as calm as could be: 'Those bastards will never rape anybody again, by God.' Cops say convicted rapist and robber Davis Furth, 33, lost both his penis and his testicles when outraged Ava opened fire with a 9-mm pistol in the seedy hotel room where he and former prison cellmate Stanley Thomas, 29, were holed up. The wrinkled avenger also blew Thomas' testicles to kingdom come, but doctors managed to save his mangled penis, policy said. "The one guy, Thomas, didn't lose his manhood, but the doctor I talked to said he won't be using it the way he used to," Detective Delp told reporters. "Both men are still in pretty bad shape, but I think they're just happy to be alive after what they've been through." The Rambo Granny swung into action August 21 after her granddaughter Debbie was carjacked and raped by two knife-wielding creeps in a section of town bordering on skid row. "When I saw the look on my Debbie's face that night in the hospital, I decided I was going to go out and get those bastards myself 'cause I figured the police would go easy on them," recalled the retired library Worker. "And I wasn't scared of them, either -- because I've got me a gun and I've been shootin' it all my life." So, using a police artist's sketch of the suspects and Debbie's description of the sickos' car, tough-as-nails Ava spent seven days prowling the wino-infested neighborhood where the crime took place till she spotted the ill-fated rapists entering their flophouse hotel. "I know it was them the minute I saw 'em, but I shot a picture of 'em anyway and took it back to Debbie and she said sure as hell, it was them," the ornery oldster recalled. "So I went back to that hotel and found their room and knocked on the door -- and the minute the big one, Furth, opened the door, I shot 'em right square between the legs, right where it would really hurt 'em most, you know. Then I went down to the police station and turned myself in." Now, baffled lawmen are tying to figure out how to deal with the vigilante granny. "What she did was wrong, but you can't really throw an 81-year-old woman in prison." Det. Delp said, "especially when all 3 million people in the city want to nominate her for sainthood." ------------------------------ From: SOBFROGG webtv.net (Scott Mummery)Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:41:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: Gas prices / Mileage Hey folk, Most the time I just read the e-mails and only reply to a few. Well time to chime in. Since people are quite worried about the price of gas, and most of us are driving trucks that get poor mileage. There has been a lot of talk about converting to propane. Cost about $2500.00 to go through and do it right. The alternative is t try and improve what you have already. You ask how??? Try some aftermarket stuff. Replace your oem air cleaner with a K&N filter, put on a more efficient exhaust system (Flowmaster),Try an after market ignition system. MSD 6AL and an high energy coil. Try hotter spark plugs NGK . Almost all of our engines are cast iron they can stand the heat. Speaking of heat how about an electric fan or a flex fan. For those of us with fuel injection ad are not afraid to learn how to improve it. Get rid of the stock fuel injectors and find some after market ones that are more efficient. Switch out your motor oil, trans fluid, and rear end fluid for synthetics. Oh and do not forget to adjust the timing and bump the fuel pressure up a couple of pounds. You would be quite impressed with what 1.5 to 2 lbs of fuel pressure will do. The list is getting long but, Hey how about exhaust hedders? They will enable your engine to make power more efficiently. And do not forget to keep the proper amount of pressure in the tires. If you want to try going to the tire store and having nitrogen added to the air in the tire. It will keep the pressure at a constant. As you can see there are quite a few things to try for getting better mileage. I started doing this in 95 when my Brand new F150 w/5.8L got only 10.5 mpg. Now I am getting 17mpg on 87 octane gas. Not bad if I do say so myself. Good Luck, Keep those trucks gas Scott Mummery !1995 F150 FLARESIDE SC 4X4 5.8L 86 MUSTANG And The other thing try to keep the foot light! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 20:09:55 -0500 From: "Theodore D. Mills" Subject: Re: Modified Slurs At 18:24 03/03/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >Can we talk about maggot-infested Chevys? >Blake Are there any other kind???? Ted N3KWQ Aston, Pa 84 Mustang GT (in pieces) 85 Ranger XL 2WD 2.8L 91 F-250 SC 4X4x460 94 Taurus LX wagon 3.8L ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 20:24:05 -0500 From: Blake Malkamaki Subject: Re: Modified Slurs >Why do we have to talk about hateful things at all?. Also, why do we have to >put down Chevy or any other make to feel good about our fords. > I have had them all. Chevy, GMC, Ford, Benz, but no "jap" ones. haha. I don't think we should put any down either in general as there are good ones and bad ones by all manufacturers. I think we are just trying to have some fun here. Blake Little Mountain Concord, Ohio Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake "Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed." "An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...." ------------------------------ From: FULSZBRONC aol.comDate: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 20:35:34 EST Subject: Re: Modified Slurs << >Since no one wants to offend anyone in this day of super thin skins >(sorry to be truthful, but I grew up in a better, tougher USA when the >motto was "sticks and stones might break my bones but words will never >hurt me"), I suggest substituing the universal slur: CHEVY. > >As in: You CHEVY maggot! or I have to go take a CHEVY, etc. >> Why do we need to resort to slurs anyhow? They prove nothing except, perhaps, the users state of mind. I grew up in the same USA as you and thankfully we're evolving from the single-mindedness that kept us ignorant and factioned ......and I have a dirty little secret (as other list members probably share ), that is: I own a Chevy....actually it's an old GMC I keep out behind the barn for hauling anything that leaks or stinks worse than me. (Hi, my name is Alex and I own a non-Ford {''Hi Alex''}) I'm not proud of it, nor am I ashamed, nor am I easily hurt by anyone slamming any of my rides, in fact I enjoy a little good natured verbal competition and bench racing..... we just keep it from being derogatory or personally derisive. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 22:57:07 -0500 From: Ken Payne Subject: On topic? Paul, I'm VERY pro-American, very patriotic, very conservative (go BUSH!), I love the USA and I'm extremely grateful to those who sacrificed their lives for my freedoms. But I don't fool myself about a kinder America that never was. The same American past you defend also kept women and blacks from voting, interned Japanese-Americans in WW II, enslaved an entire race, moved the Cherokee nation across the country in the dead of winter, stole New Mexico from the Mexicans, exploited India and South America with the rubber trade, nearly wiped out the Buffalo, kept the Irish in slums, undermined the Hawaiian royal family, wiped out entire American Indian tribes with smallpox.... the list goes on and on. As great of a nation that the USA is, it still has it's share of black eyes. Try dealing with being a little boy and having all the kids in the neighborhood mock your mother when she called you for dinner. Try picking your mother up one day from her business because she's scared to drive after the KKK threw a brick at her shop window after they had a rally at the main intersection in town. Or the many times the people across the street invited the neighborhood over for pool parties but not my family (I was allowed to play with their son though because I didn't have an accent that bothered them). Being white, and of European decent didn't matter to the Klan, that family or other kids. Just remember, your fore-fathers where "damn foreigners" too. Ethnic slams have no place here. We have people here from all walks of life and a very devoted Ford truck owner on the 61-79 list from Saudi Arabia. I'm sure he nothing to do with the price of oil. Are you willing to email him with your words? If you really meant it about sticks and stones, you wouldn't have replied because what we said doesn't matter, right? But you DID reply...... I apologize for participating in this off topic thread, especially since I'm the admin, but trying to defend the slurs really pushed my buttons. I'm usually not so vocal about off-topic threads. Lets get back to talking about Ford trucks, I know I find it a much more relaxing topic! Frankly, this one yanks my chain. Ken Payne Son of a damn, job-stealing, Roman Catholic foreigner (who's shop created 6 jobs) and a whitey, cracker, Baptist, redneck Southerner. ------------------------------ From: "Nelson Vasconcelos" Subject: Re: Exhaust Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 23:12:27 -0500 Hi Mike, I have an 89' F150 4x4 300/6 and I installed a Gibson cat-back exhaust. I ordered the sweep side kit that runs the same route out back as the stock exhaust. It came with all the hardware,brackets, a nice stainless steel tip and was real easy to put in, only took me a couple of hours. I chose the Gibson kit because it's all 3" mandrel (smooth) bent pipes, a larger 7" diameter muffler that is the baffled straight through design, it gives a smooth mellow sound that doesn't bother people in the cab and is the only kit I found that is recommend for off-road use. If you get the dual kit it will be a little louder, but don't go crazy, remember it's a work horse 300/6 you have under the hood not a 302. It comes in aluminized steel (which I have) or stainless steel. Mine is warranted against mfg, etc...defects for life and the stainless kit is 100% warranted for ever even if it rusts out. I paid $260 at www.accessconnect.com Check them out for prices I really shopped around before deciding and Automotive Accessories Connection had the best deals. It added a bunch of low end torque that you can really feel when you step on the gas, they also say it give you 15+ Hp. Hope I could help, Nelson ------------------------------ From: "Harris, Scott" Subject: My apology.... Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 22:34:22 -0600 I'm sorry, I thought this was the FORD TRUCK mail site, not the "insult the hell out of people and then post 2000 follow-ups" site. How 'bout some truck talk? Can't we all just get along? If not then keep it to yourself and tell me your truck problems and I'll tell you mine. ------------------------------ From: Lingus0169 aol.comDate: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 00:21:58 EST Subject: Re: Modified Slurs i dont see y people are so affended about saying stuff like "chevy sucks", chevy's are magget infested. i have some die hard chevy friends and we always joke around and make fun or each other. what's the big deal, his chevy's often got me here and there, but whats the big deal..its a give and take situation. other's make fun of fords, and we make fun of everything but fords. so get over it, its nothing. just some good ol fun. ------------------------------ From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" Subject: Re: My apology.... Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 00:59:11 -0500 AMEN!!!! -----Original Message----- From: Harris, Scott To: '80-96-list ford-trucks.com' <80-96-listford-trucks.com>Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 11:40 PM Subject: [80-96-list] My apology.... >I'm sorry, I thought this was the FORD TRUCK mail site, not the "insult the >hell out of people and then post 2000 follow-ups" site. > >How 'bout some truck talk? > >Can't we all just get along? If not then keep it to yourself and tell me >your truck problems and I'll tell you mine. >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with>the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the body of the >message. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 22:07:39 -0800 (PST) From: Keith Lawyer Subject: Re: Cheap tunups :-) > Hi Gary, > I think you're a little off the mark by > portraying ''most'' > garages as unscrupulous. I don't think so :-) > Any reputable repair > facility > will employ a knowledgeable service writer that will > question any customer that wants a tune-up. My dad worked for a time as a service writer when he was a mechanic for a living. He felt he had to quit because he worked on commission and the shop was always pushing him to sell unnecessary parts or service. Also, I'm sure it was (intentionally) tempting for him to do so since he worked on commission. I tend to find service writers annoying. It turns the shop into a beauracracy. The best shops, which are quickly disappearing, are ones that are owned, operated, etc by one person - the mechanic. He is the service writer, the brake guy, the tranny guy, and you always talk to him because he is the only one there. My VW mechanic is like this and he is amazing. And yes, of course, a one-person shop is still only as good as that one person. But at least you can talk directly to the mechanic! Keith L. ===== '90 XLT/351/E4OD/4.56/33x12.50/10.25 rear+ARB __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: markheid seidata.comDate: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 07:56:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Modified Slurs At 16:20 3/3/00 -0800, you wrote: >Why do we have to talk about hateful things at all?. Also, why do we have to >put down Chevy or any other make to feel good about our fords. > >Eric >Proud Ford, Chevy and Nissan owner I have noted a certain tendency amongst many of my coworkers and associates that if Joe Blow goes out looking for a good used car and comes back with a Chevy, then suddenly Chevy is the greatest thing on Earth. A year later, when he goes looking for a used car again, suddenly whatever he comes back with is the greatest thing on Earth, and his former greatest-thing-on-Earth, the Chevy, is now a hunk of sh*t. A fellow I know actually picked up a used Yugo (this would have been 1988 or so) and the way he talked about it, you'd have thought it was the second coming of Christ. He later bought an old Ford Fairlane for a project car, and for that three or four months before he "got tired" of it, Ford was the absolute fastest, most awesome car ever. Then he went and got a late- seventies Oldsmobile 88 with a Pontiac 301 for power and he insisted that the Pontiac 301 was the last word in high-performance. Personally, I've been a die-hard Ford fan for years, but even I will admit that the big three all build tough, reliable trucks and world-class passenger cars. It's just that I've never been a fan of GM's styling or the way that the Chevy V8 has its distributor at the rear of the engine. Certainly Chevy builds a superior performance engine. Any fool can see that. You can build a Chevy cheaper and better than any other V8 on the planet. Period. That is NOT to say that Ford doesn't build a fine engine too. As I said, I prefer Fords. I especially love the old tough-as-nails FE engines (352s, 390s and 428s). Those mills could with- stand TONS of abuse and neglect and could still torque with the best of them. But, my next project car is going to be a '27 T-bucket kit, and since performance is an issue, it's gonna be Chevy powered. I dig the new Dodge fullsize trucks, but I just don't have the cubic dollars necessary to own one. I currently do not own a Ford product, sad but true. My last Ford was a 1977 F100 Stepside, which unfortunately became very intimate with a telephone pole during a snowstorm last March. I wasn't speeding, wasn't fooling around, but another driver lost control of his or her car and in an attempt to avoid a head-on, I lost control of my vehicle as well and that was the result. The collision was a particularly ugly one, left me with a very nasty cut on my noggin, and I spent the next week in the hospital. During that time, I actually contemplated repairing the F100, but when I saw what was left (the vehicle had been pretty much stripped by the time I got there) it was quite clear that it wasn't feasible at all. I happened to come across a very good deal on a decent 1991 S10 so that is what I drive for right now. When I find a good deal on an F-series that I like, you can bet your bottom dollar that I'll be buying it. Anyway, that's my two cents. As a current Chevy owner, I am already stepping into my asbestos suit in anticipation of the wrath from the group. As a Ford enthusiast, I trust the flamethrowers will be set to "toast" instead of "barbecue"...... Mark ------------------------------ End of 80-96-list Digest V2000 #24 ********************************** ---------------------------------------------------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts 80-96 Truck Mailing List Send posts to 80-96-list ford-trucks.comIf you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send an email to: listar ford-trucks.comwith the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the message. Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com ---------------------------------------------------------- |
