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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 80-96-list); Fri, 03 Mar 2000 11:33:14 -0500 (EST)
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 11:33:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: 80-96-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
Reply-to: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: 80-96-list Digest V2000 #23
Precedence: bulk

==========================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts 80-96 Truck Mailing List

Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com

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------------------------------------
80-96-list Digest Thu, 02 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 023

In This Issue:
Re: I'm considering a Ford Van purchase
I'm considering a Ford Van purchase
Re: No starts....?
Re: Daystar lift/leveling block
Re: No starts....?
Re: Matter Of Principal
Re: Matter Of Ethnic Principal
Re: No starts....?
Re: Daystar lift/leveling block
Re: Propane
Re: GAS PRICES
Re: Ethnic slurs
Re: Ethnic slurs
Re: ADMIN: New free service from FTE, web based email!!!
Re: Matter Of Principal
In Light of the High Gas Prices
Exhaust
Re: ADMIN: New free service from FTE, web
Re: Matter Of Principal
Re: Cheap tunups :-)
Re: Daystar lift/leveling block

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "QUARLES, ROB (FLORIDA)" halkey-roberts.com>
Subject: Re: I'm considering a Ford Van purchase
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 07:47:59 -0600



Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 22:51:25 -0500
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: I'm considering a Ford Van purchase

>Is the 6.9 diesel reliable or troublesome?

I've heard both good and bad. Supposedly, it has cavitation
problems
but I've also heard many people say they are trouble-free.

What is cavitation?
Are the newer turbo diesels more reliable?
What kind of mileage difference is there between the gas
engines and the diesels (highway)?

Thanks!

Rob



------------------------------

Subject: I'm considering a Ford Van purchase
From: craig n eggerman juno.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 09:31:19 EST

E350 460 engine. Get one that is fuel injected with the dependable C6
automatic transmission.
Problems
cracked exhaust manifolds or broken front and rear manifold bolts. Check
this out it is $$ to fix. If they have changed the oil and greased it on
a regular basis they are bullet proof.
Expect 10 mpg
Craig
Eggerman juno.com
Casper,Wyoming
O|||||O

________________________________________________________________





------------------------------

From: "DannyF" ev1.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:20:47 -0600
Subject: Re: No starts....?

> Saaaaaaaay! Will a 94 starter energize if the fuel pump shock or impact
> switch is messed up? My bird just simply refuses to engage the starter
> sometimes for no reason I've been able to determine?
>
> --
> Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
> 78 Bronco Loving, Gary

Yes, it will. Thats not your problem.

Will it crank bypassing the starter relay?


Danny
fitz011 ev1.net

------------------------------

From: "DannyF" ev1.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:22:31 -0600
Subject: Re: Daystar lift/leveling block

> Has anyone ever used Daystar lift/level blocks under the front coils of
> a
> F-150? I want to lift the front up and add springs to the rear but do
> they
> mess up your alignment?

Not familiar w/that particular brand but I've used alum.
shims/spacers under the coil springs. They are made specifically
for this. I think the max height is only 2-2 1/2". For me that was
enough as I was leveling out the truck from that all-to-common
"raked" look.

Never had a tire wear problem and an alignment much later than
the shim installation only showed the alignment slightly off on
camber.


Danny
fitz011 ev1.net

------------------------------

From: "Wallace A. Gustafson" speedchoice.com>
Subject: Re: No starts....?
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:10:48 -0700

Check the ignition switch. Possible RECALL on this switch. Check it out
immediately. Switch Failure can cause a FIRE!

Wallace A. Gustafson a.k.a. "Cobra"
Cobra Racing & Engineering
1991 Ford Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible -- Cobra / Police Interceptor
Modifications
1991 Ford F-150

----- Original Message -----
From: "DannyF" ev1.net>
To: <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 8:20 AM
Subject: [80-96-list] Re: No starts....?


> > Saaaaaaaay! Will a 94 starter energize if the fuel pump shock or impact
> > switch is messed up? My bird just simply refuses to engage the starter
> > sometimes for no reason I've been able to determine?
> >
> > --
> > Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
> > 78 Bronco Loving, Gary
>
> Yes, it will. Thats not your problem.
>
> Will it crank bypassing the starter relay?
>
>
> Danny
> fitz011 ev1.net
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the body of the
> message.
>


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 12:15:41 -0500
From: flagship worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Matter Of Principal

Wow! Take a couple of deep breaths! You can voice your opinion without
resorting to racist name calling.



Jerome Kelly wrote:
>
> I have decided I will always be ripped off by the oil cartel. I have
> watched a lot of you guys give your pros and cons about
> LPG. You could be accurate on a lot of
> what you say. Now wheres the beef?
> I am tired of the camel headed goat breath sand maggots who eat away at
> us.
> I propose that all vehicles that are used
> in the United States be propane. We should not need so many E-checks.
> This
> would cut down some cost on taxes. All
> the parts glutton people can kiss out $$
> also. Clean fuel should knock their butts
> out of some robbery they pull on us. Our
> air will be cleaner. Maybe so clean we can do away with a good portion
> of the EPA. Should be some more tax money saved if
> the political whores don't try to steal or hide the savings. Lets
> except high fuel
> prices but lets pay it to our own country.
> The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Now this should help our economy and
> create more jobs here. I am for my country and its citizens. Lets bust
> their
> $$ for good. Ban Arab oil from the United States forever. If we run out
> of
> propane, lets burn alcohol and support our farmers. This will leave less
> cheap corn
> for them to use. Lets do it because we can. As you can tell I am more
> that a little
> PO at this situation. It has gone on to long for me. Time to end the
> war.
>

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Matter Of Ethnic Principal
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 14:01:13 -0500

Didn't really notice that point but you are right, we have at least one
member from Saudi Arabia who would be within his rights to take offense at
that remark. We've discussed this before when some of us were running the
Japanese down because they flood our market with less expensive cars etc.
and called them "Japs".

I've always used this word because my dad was in the second world war and
when you come from that generation you have little love for them but this is
now and because a person has a heritage or lives in a land which is doing
wrong things does not mean all are guilty so.........and even if they were
what do we gain by this?

Please note my trimmed post :-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>Wow! Take a couple of deep breaths! You can voice your
>opinion without resorting to racist name calling.

>> I am tired of the camel headed goat breath sand maggots who
>eat away at us.

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: No starts....?
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 14:18:27 -0500

So far it has not done it when I had my meter with me or when I was even
there to check it when the condition was present so I don't know. When you
jump the battery it will start. The battery is new and the cables are in
good shape and have silicone grease on them as well. A while back one of
the large 80 or 60 amp fuses in the big fues block under the hood burned up
and melted part of the block as well. This circuit opened the start relay
circuit but I can't imagine it taking 60 amps to energize the selenoid on
the starter??? I took the starter off and tested it for many, many cycles
with no problems and after fixing the fuse block and putting in a new fuse
it ran fine for a while but now it's doing it again. Haven't checked the
fuse yet, maybe I better take a look, eh? The first problem was a
connection in the wire (about a #6 copper I think) which runs to the starter
selenoid. It is a single pin plug just under the fuse block. When I
unplugged this and replugged it several times and put silicone grease in it
the problem seemed to go away but again, it's back :-(

Ford plugs have always been a problem so this is no surprise :-) First
place I look for an ignition problem on my 78 is the big black plugs in the
ignition circuit......

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>Will it crank bypassing the starter relay?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 15:24:17 -0500
From: rtb ufl.edu>
Subject: Re: Daystar lift/leveling block

Yes they do mess up your alignment, and I would not recomend you do it.
If you really want to level the truck, get the leveling springs!.
When I used the leveling blocks on my truck, (92F1504x4)
I had to get the truck not only aligned, but also new caster camber bushings.

My philosiphy was that I wanted to keep the stock ride and increase the
height, to make the truck look normal and level. Unfortunateyly I spent more
money in alignment and new bushings and leveling block costs, and it didnt
really lift the truck as much as the company said. I used STEMPH leveling
blocks, specially made for ford truck coil springs.
End result, just get the leveling springs and put them in, and the truck will
be level, and you wont have to go to the alignment shop and spend more money.

Everything I heard about the leveling springs has been good, even the fact
that they dont change the ride softness enough to notice.
Good luck
Rob

DannyF wrote:

> > Has anyone ever used Daystar lift/level blocks under the front coils of
> > a
> > F-150? I want to lift the front up and add springs to the rear but do
> > they
> > mess up your alignment?
>
> Not familiar w/that particular brand but I've used alum.
> shims/spacers under the coil springs. They are made specifically
> for this. I think the max height is only 2-2 1/2". For me that was
> enough as I was leveling out the truck from that all-to-common
> "raked" look.
>
> Never had a tire wear problem and an alignment much later than
> the shim installation only showed the alignment slightly off on
> camber.
>
> Danny
> fitz011 ev1.net
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the body of the
> message.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 09:16:41 +1100
From: les williams cyber.net.au>
Subject: Re: Propane

"Peters, Gary (G.R.)" wrote:

> Remember the discussion originally brought out the fact that a propane
> engine must have a very high compression ratio to get all the use from the
> fuel, much higher than anything currently being produced by OEM's. That is
> just one item that must be altered. When they convert a vehicle they simply
> add the fuel supply stuff on an engine not intended to be used with propane
> so it doesn't matter how poorly or how well it is installed, is still will
> perform poorly due to this.

Hi Gary,
When people dump on Propane, this is exactly the point I have been trying to
promote. You can only optimize one system Petrol or LPG. So which one is the
average mechanic that probably knows bugger all about LPG going to tune for ?
Petrol, of course. In the majority of OZ, I don't believe there is a valid
reason for a dual fuel situation. This is obviously not quite the situation here
in the USA. Raising the C/R of the engine is just one part of the equation.
Phred and I still 'debate' the issue, what can you get away with. 9.0-5:1 is
fairly pedestrian, 10:1 is getting serious, and I know of a Che*y 350 at 11:1,
if you over do it there is always water injection to play with. ;-))
Assume we build at 9.5:1, the LPG will be happy, but basic ULP is going to be a
worry.
When it comes to extracting performance out of LPG, you just have to forget
about petrol.
In this era of unleaded fuels the old problem of valve recession is not the
problem it used to be.

When reference is made to 'bad' installs, the points I am concerned about and so
to would Phred or anybody else involved in the industry, the electrical fittings
that fail over time, this ain't no stereo system being installing. Supply and
the installation of the tank. Always a problem when the cheapest quote is
accepted. Phred could write a book on this subject alone. How well the vaporizer
is secured, and my pet peeve, the mixer. One size doesn't fit all. The
wholesalers of the parts logically are trying to sell as many kits as possible,
so package deals may be done, to take 6 of everything, so this is how we get the
one size will fit you car, be it 1.5 or 8 litres, 'Don't you worry now, I'm a
Professional' Yeah, Sure..... My personal preference is the OHG-450X, If you
can't race it, I don't want it......(sorry Phred, just couldn't help me self)

Little or nothing done to the Ignition System. Once again Phred's speciality.
I'll only say that if MSD 6al works for petrol, it's a blast for LPG, and you
guys don't have to pay $500aud for it.
This is still in the domain of the install, and the problem is the same over,
the average purchaser doesn't know the right questions to ask up front or even
where to get an unbias opinion. This is no longer a problem for members on this
list.

BTW: How do you get to charge $185 for a tune up that doesn't work?
What have I missed here?

regards
Les
Lost in the Land of OZ


------------------------------

From: "Troy" yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:11:37 -0500
Subject: Re: GAS PRICES

On 23 Feb 00, at 20:45, WoodStck45 aol.com wrote:

>GAS PRICES HERE IN CENTRAL ILLINOIS (ABOUT 80 MILES FROM ST. LOUIS MO) ARE
>$1.44 FOR REG, $1.47 FOR PLUS, AND $1.54 FOR PREMIUM.

They are running now around $1.40 for 87, $1.49 for the 89, and I
have seen it up as high as $1.65 for the supreme.

You might be a redneck if... You develop a 1 to 10 warning system
for your gas attacks. - Jeff Foxworthy


Troy Williams

------------------------------

From: BanksRVA aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 22:31:44 EST
Subject: Re: Ethnic slurs

In a message dated 3/2/00 6:53:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
listar ford-trucks.com writes:

<< I am tired of the camel headed goat breath sand maggots who eat away at
us

Ethnic slurs on the list. How quaint. Personally, this disgusts me. How bout
we stick to trucks and quit the name calling.
Joe

------------------------------

From: LGRanchaol.com
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 22:40:03 EST
Subject: Re: Ethnic slurs

I agree. Lets get on with talking about trucks. There is not much that can be
done about the gas prices other than complain about it. I do not think that
there are enough people in this forum to run an effective boycott.

Stop the complaining and get on with trucks- talk mileage if you want- even
propane convertion is reasonable, but gas prices, stop already.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 19:55:25 -0800
From: Bob Kennedy uswest.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: New free service from FTE, web based email!!!

Ken,
I wish to express my gratitude for the great job you are
doing. The advancement of FTE is a wonderful thing. While I
won't take you up on your offer, I want to let you know how
much that offer is appreciated.


Bob


Ken Payne wrote:

> Ford Truck Enthusiasts is pleased to announce the addition
> of an all new free feature for our users!
>
> FREE WEB BASED EMAIL ---- yournameford-trucks.net
>
> We've registered the ford-trucks.net domain for email
> address use.
>
> An automated sign up page will be added this weekend and
> the mail service will be activated then. This is a full
> blown, ***fast*** web based email package, that includes
> pretty much everything Hotmail, Yahoo mail, etc have and
> more. It cost us plenty, but I think everyone will enjoy
> using it and we've always had the policy of offering more
> to our users as we can afford it. Plus an added benefit,
> a vanity address perfect for all us Ford truck lovers.
>
> AFTE club members will receive as part of their membership
> an enhanced version of the web mail, which has increased
> mail quotas and spell checking, plus outgoing email from
> AFTE members will have their member number appended to
> list postings!
>
> The public sign-up will be this weekend, but now is your
> chance to grab a desired address, on a first come first
> serve basis.
>
> If you would like to have an address, please send the
> following to kpayneford-trucks.com:
>
> Name:
> Current email address:
> Desired email address (ford-trucks.net):
> Desired password:
> Year and model of Ford trucks you own (we're going to
> use part of the mail database for a registry!).
>
> You'll receive complete usage instructions this weekend.
> DO NOT SEND THE ABOVE INFORMATION TO THIS LIST!!!!
>
> Later,
> Ken Payne
> Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the body of the
> message.

--
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superford.org/cgi-bin/sf.cgi?uid=default&vr2=1&ID=311

86XLT/5.0/AOD/8.8/D44 4.56 Detroit/EZ, 36x12.50x16.5, 6"/0"



------------------------------

From: "Michael R. Dunbar" vtc.vsc.edu>
Subject: Re: Matter Of Principal
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:03:40 -0500

I agree with everyone else in saying that we should keep this forum to
trucks and everything involved around them and that if we need to go off on
a tangent, that we do it in an adult, civilized manner without ethnic slurs.

With that said, I would also like to point out a slight flaw in thinking
here:

>>>I propose that all vehicles that are used in the United States be
propane.

This is easier said than done. Many people think that propane is actually a
natural gas and is piped out of the ground, etc. Most people don't actually
know that by refining crude oil, one of it's by-products is propane. So, we
can't simply boycott oil from the Middle East, as it is our biggest
supplier.

Anyway, I guess that's my two bits worth on this topic.

Mike Dunbar
89 F-150 XLT Lariat
White River Jct., Vermont
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.xoom.com/mdunbar420/truck.htm

"Just remember, the wheel's spinning but the hamster's dead"


------------------------------

From: "Michael R. Dunbar" vtc.vsc.edu>
Subject: In Light of the High Gas Prices
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:09:21 -0500

Lately, one of the biggest complaints affecting everyone's lives is the
rising price of gasoline, but I have always thought that gas was a good
value (especially if you were to take the $0.30 to $0.40 per gallon tax off
at the pump) Obviously others need a little convincing, so to bring it all
to light, consider this:

What if you were to buy a gallon of.....

Diet Snapple 16oz. for $1.29....................................... $10.32
per gallon
Lipton Iced Tea 16oz. for $1.19................................. $9.52 per
gallon
Gatorade 20oz. for $1.59............................................ $10.17
per gallon
Ocean Spray 16oz. for $1.25....................................... $10.00
per gallon
Evian (water) 9oz. for $1.49........................................ $21.19
per gallon
STP Brake Fluid 12oz for $3.15................................. $33.60 per
gallon
Vicks NyQuil 6oz. for $8.35........................................ $178.13
per gallon
Pepto Bismol 4oz. for $3.85......................................... $123.20
per gallon
Scope 1.5oz. for $0.99...................................................
$84.84 per gallon
Whiteout .7oz. for $1.39................................................
$254.17 per gallon

So, next time you're at the pump, be glad your truck doesn't run on
whiteout!!!

Mike Dunbar
89 F-150 XLT Lariat
White River Jct., Vermont
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.xoom.com/mdunbar420/truck.htm

"Just remember, the wheel's spinning but the hamster's dead"


------------------------------

From: "Michael G" hotmail.com>
Subject: Exhaust
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 21:15:16 PST

Hi All,

I am thinking of changing the exhaust on my 91' F-150 300/6. I am
planning on purchasing one of the dual exhaust bolt-on cat-back kits from
Gibson, Borla, etc. Has anyone here had experience with any of these types
of products?
Also, while kicking the bolt-on idea around, I asked the folks at a
nation-wide muffler chain what they'd get to weld me custom dual
exhaust...they said around $230 total for straight pipes back (split into a
"y" just after the cat, NO MUFFLERS). I heard a 302 with straight pipes
back, and it sounded good. The store says that in my state (AZ) emmision
laws only require a cat, not a muffler, too.
Before I look into this option too much I wanted some input from the
list. If I did go this route, of course I'd make sure it is actually legal
in AZ. I hate to open a can of worms here, but I'm told that this would most
likely increase horsepower slightly, while losing some low end torque.

Thanks,
Mike
______________________________________________________


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 00:18:34 -0500
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: New free service from FTE, web

Thank you! Even more surprises are planned this coming week!
Ken

At 07:55 PM 3/2/00 -0800, you wrote:
>Ken,
>I wish to express my gratitude for the great job you are
>doing. The advancement of FTE is a wonderful thing. While I
>won't take you up on your offer, I want to let you know how
>much that offer is appreciated.
>
>
>Bob



------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Matter Of Principal
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 06:27:25 -0500

No one has mentioned the fact that as soon as propane becomes a "primary"
vehicle fuel it will be taxed just like gasoline, don't kid yourself, as
I've said many times before, "There aint no free lunch" :-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

Most people
>don't actually
>know that by refining crude oil, one of it's by-products is
>propane. So, we
>can't simply boycott oil from the Middle East, as it is our biggest
>supplier.

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Cheap tunups :-)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 06:40:49 -0500

That was a hypothetical number based on my very painful experiences with
garages and at least one experience when I was a Kid working for one but
don't recall what it cost back then :-) Today, just having them pull your
truck into the bay cost you $59 at a dealer and the parts and labor are
added on to that so I figured $185 would be about right :-) If you
specifically ask for a tune up, they are under no obligation to make the
engine run well, only bring it to spec so if it has 200k on it they have
done what you asked and are under no liability if the engine runs poorly
when properly tuned due to bad valves, worn rings etc....You and I might
discourage a customer in such a case and not take his money but most garages
wouldn't be that nice :-(

By the way......I realize I'm in a daze most of the time but I can't put my
finger on a country named "OZ"?? Abuse me and have a good laugh but lay it
on me?

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>BTW: How do you get to charge $185 for a tune up that doesn't work?
>What have I missed here?

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Daystar lift/leveling block
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:35:04 -0500

It really doesn't matter how you make the truck taller by changing the
suspension, it will affect the camber by an amount relative to the amount
you raise it but the camber the technician sees may be close to correct
because you also corrected some sag and the truck has not been corrected
since it sagged.

If you are correcting sagging springs with new, stock length springs then
the camber will also be restored to stock if it has never been adjusted but
if the camber is currenlty correct or you are installing springs which are
longer than stock or spring blocks with good stock springs on a vehicle with
any kind of IFS it will make a noticeable change in the camber.

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>Yes they do mess up your alignment, and I would not recomend you do it.

>End result, just get the leveling springs and put them in, and
>the truck will
>be level, and you wont have to go to the alignment shop and
>spend more money.

------------------------------

End of 80-96-list Digest V2000 #23
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