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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 80-96-list); Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:48:58 -0500 (EST)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:48:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: 80-96-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
Reply-to: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: 80-96-list Digest V2000 #18
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80-96-list Digest Fri, 25 Feb 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 018

In This Issue:
Learning the hard way.
Re: Learning the hard way.
CNG & propane issues
Re: Pinging
Re: Pinging
Re: '81 F-150 300 Six carb problems
Re: Propane and Natural Gas
Re: Pinging
Re: new seats
Wife is a redneck
Oil pressure drop
Re: Oil pressure drop
Re: Oil pressure drop
Re: '81 F-150 300 Six carb problems
Re: Oil pressure drop
Re: Propane and Natural Gas
Re: Propane and Natural Gas
ADMIN: I'm back

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Michael J. Pasznik, Jr." exit109.com>
Subject: Learning the hard way.
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:24:46 -0500

I think you'll like this. I was heading down the ol' Garden State
Parkway on my way home from work today when I came upon a rather new,
top-of-the-line-looking Dodge 3500 4x4 4-door longbed. Across the tailgate,
printed as big as they could be, were the words "DON'T BUY A DODGE!"
That's one expensive lesson! :)

-Mike



------------------------------

From: "roderick" arnet.com.ar>
Subject: Re: Learning the hard way.
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:26:13 -0300


----- Original Message -----
From: Michael J. Pasznik, Jr. exit109.com>
To: <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 8:24 PM
Subject: [80-96-list] Learning the hard way.


> I think you'll like this. I was heading down the ol' Garden State
> Parkway on my way home from work today when I came upon a rather new,
> top-of-the-line-looking Dodge 3500 4x4 4-door longbed. Across the
tailgate,
> printed as big as they could be, were the words "DON'T BUY A DODGE!"
> That's one expensive lesson! :)
>
> -Mike
I liked this one:
Irecieved jeg s new catalog in which i found t shirts for sale
and one said" FIRE & SMOKE, CHEVROLET RACING "
now why does it say that? seems they are having lots of electrical or fuel
line problems


RODERICK
94 flare side 300 6cil
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the body of the
> message.
>


------------------------------

From: Fred Moreno dualcurve.com>
Subject: CNG & propane issues
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:03:05 -0700


CNG excells for fleets of vehicles with specific daily routes, like the
post office, UPS, local delivery services etc.. This is because the fueling
process and storage is your biggest headache.

For one, as Blake pointed out, CNG is still a gas in a cylinder roughly the
same size as a typical propane tank. It is in a vessel designed to hold 3600
psi (no typo). Typically after a 75-85% fill of fuel, you're looking at
having in the ball park of 2500 psi. CNG does not become a liquid until -240
degrees, then it becomes LNG. Now our storage vessels looks like a giant
thermos bottle but man can it hold fuel. LNG requires very fancy fuelling
safety measures, your dealing with a cryogenic material.

Another point that is usually not be made until after the fact, is your CNG
tank needs to be recertified by a tank inspector (translate that into a
company that will charge you big $$) every 2 or 3 years. And your tank must
be removed from the vehicle and shipped/delivered for this inspection.
I delivered two tanks from our company vehicles to such a facility for
inspection - to Albuquerque. So this is a special type of testing, not just
any tank inspector, retailer, supplier will be able to do this. El Paso is a
town of just under 1 million, and we still had to go 250 miles away.

You just don't pick up a CNG tank. A forklift is very helpful, although two
big guys could probably do the job.
Your typical CNG tank, say 18" X 50" is only going to hold enough CNG to
give you the equivalent of about 12-15 gallons of gasoline at a 100% fill of
fuel. That will rarely happen even at the local Alternative Fuel Filling
Stations with the high dollar compressors stations and the cascade bottles
Blake mentioned.
With our company truck we get about 80% capacity. Those compressors are
delivered via flatbed 18-wheelers, and the stations typically run from 3/4
to 1 million dollars.
This is why local fleets can benefit from using CNG, but for your average
goober commuting daily, running errands, sitting in traffic, let's go on
vacation, it is not practical at all.

The compressor someone mentioned that runs off the residential line to fill
the vehicle overnight (called a slow-fill) have been around and they are
called Fuelmakers compressors. You can probably purchase one at a fairly
good price (a few hundreds of $ + install). If you really are interested I
know where to find some new ones and will get a brother-in-law price for
you.

The punch line is that if you think good mechanics/technicians are hard to
find for everyones gasoline mode of transportation, a good reliable propane
mech/tech is harder to find, but a CNG guy ...well they are just about
extint. And like a lot of other fields, many will tell you '...we can do
that, we know what we are doing, we've done many just like yours...'
exercise caution.

For filling your truck with propane just find a shop that is open. They can
all fill motor fuel tanks, although I did have some problems when U-Haul
first started selling propane, they did not have the 'right adaptor'. An
analogy would be a plumber not equipped with a pipe wrench (or exposing some
back-door trouser cleavage - LOL). I enjoy filling with propane in remote
places...' you gonna run that truck with BBQ fuel?!?!

BTW, for pricing a propane conversion at $2000, we are talking it done
right with a few bells $ whistles. I have not priced one recently but for a
standard full size US made truck, that would be a bit steep. Call/shop
around for a used tank. Anyone that wants help finding good quality people
to do the work right the first time, let me know.

Those 800 HP boilers Blake was mentioning are running off what the industry
calls 'Digester gas', sort of sef-explatory if you imagine enzymes in
action...That's developing into a big industry around landfills, might as
well use it because one day that gas is going to come out of the ground
anyway! Wonder if I can run my TV off the septic tank fumes? I'm thinking...

Hey its Friday, I turned in my homework this morning, a great gun show is
tomorrow in Las Cruces and I'm taking a friend the long way to the show that
will require extreme 4X4'ing...!!!

Phred KD5AQB
La Union resident, El Paso employed.


------------------------------

From: Spruce1495 aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:15:40 EST
Subject: Re: Pinging

Check plug wires 7, 8.. make sure they are seperated from cap to plugs.

------------------------------

From: Spruce1495 aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:21:45 EST
Subject: Re: Pinging

You may be leaning out somewhere from fuel pump to cylinder.
My TPS was going bac for a few weeks and finally went to H____. Before it did
I feel it leaned out my 302 to point that it burned two cylinders, thus I
replaced whole engine. Had 90K on it.

------------------------------

From: Spruce1495 aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:27:21 EST
Subject: Re: '81 F-150 300 Six carb problems

I ran into a 300 ci six one year and you couldn't keep the screws holding the
body of the carb to the base tight. This was a wierd one. Finally set them
with loktite.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:35:26 -0800
From: Chris McKinnon cnx.net>
Subject: Re: Propane and Natural Gas

>Filling of the propane tank, outside mainland USA is a relativly simple, and a
>self-serve job. Yes, it does reguire a little more patience as it is slower
>filling, after all it is a closed fuel system and the supply pump has to
>pressurise you tank to refill. Certainly, down here in OZ there is no
venting >of the tank to the atmosphere, like when filling you BBQ bottle.
It's so easy >even taxi drivers can do it!! ;-)) Phred or Chris can fill
you in about USA >it's self.
>
Well, I'm not in the states, I'm in BC but herer the filling is done by
trained people at gas stations. Getting the training to do it you self
(legaly) is about $70. I do fill my self up once and a while at my local
station. My tank doesn't have an auto-shutoff so I need to use the spitter
valve on the tank (it does help the filling speed though.)
Go for it!
Chris
'84 F150
351W on propane
NP 435
NP 208
287K Km


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:00:37 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki little-mountain.com>
Subject: Re: Pinging

>You may be leaning out somewhere from fuel pump to cylinder.
>My TPS was going bac for a few weeks and finally went to H____. Before it did
>I feel it leaned out my 302 to point that it burned two cylinders, thus I
>replaced whole engine. Had 90K on it.

Is there anyway to know whether it is running lean with fuel injection? How
can it be fixed if it is?
Will high or low fuel pressure cause leaness?

Thanks

Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."



------------------------------

From: "Harris, Scott" dfwairport.com>
Subject: Re: new seats
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:40:06 -0600

And remember if you fabricate a new framework to weld it good and use heavy
duty bolts that would withstand an accident and not shear.

-----Original Message-----
From: Lingus0169 aol.com [mailto:Lingus0169 aol.com]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 4:22 PM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [80-96-list] Re: new seats


u can put any seats you want in, just need to fabricate alittle, good luck
nick
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To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the body of the
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------------------------------

From: "The Casey's" home.com>
Subject: Wife is a redneck
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 23:54:53 -0000


You know your wife is a redneck when tonight I bought a engine lift and my wife looks at it and says she likes it because she can use it to skin the deer now.


------------------------------

From: "Isaac Godsey" prodigy.net>
Subject: Oil pressure drop
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:55:54 -0800

I have an '88 Ford F-150, 4.9L, I-6. Just had the oil changed, and as I was
driving down the freeway, the oil pressure dropped to nothing, according to
the gauge. I heard a ticking noise from the top end of the motor. That
sounded to me like sticky lifters. I checked, and the motor is full of oil.
I put in a can of Rislone, and the noise stopped. I drove down the road some
more, and the oil pressure dropped, the motor starts ticking, I'm back to
square one again. Any suggestions on what this could be? Could it be the oil
pump? \
If so, how hard is it to fix, and is it fixable without pulling the motor?
Any help would be appreciated.
Isaac (Godzilla)



------------------------------

From: Mike Persell home.com>
Subject: Re: Oil pressure drop
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 01:32:59 -0600

Could also be a bad filter. I haven't had this happen on my Ford but it
did happen to my Mazda rotary RX-7.

Mike


On Sat, 26 Feb 2000, you wrote:
> I have an '88 Ford F-150, 4.9L, I-6. Just had the oil changed, and as I was
> driving down the freeway, the oil pressure dropped to nothing, according to
> the gauge. I heard a ticking noise from the top end of the motor. That
> sounded to me like sticky lifters. I checked, and the motor is full of oil.
> I put in a can of Rislone, and the noise stopped. I drove down the road some
> more, and the oil pressure dropped, the motor starts ticking, I'm back to
> square one again. Any suggestions on what this could be? Could it be the oil
> pump? \
> If so, how hard is it to fix, and is it fixable without pulling the motor?
> Any help would be appreciated.
> Isaac (Godzilla)
>
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the body of the
> message.

------------------------------

From: slikness mindspring.com
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:11:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Oil pressure drop

I've read several posts on older vehicles where the oil pump screen gets gunked up and won't suck up the oil. In that case, you need to drop the pan and clean the screen and bottom of your oil pan. But, in my thinking, if you have enough sludge in the bottom of your oil pan, you're probably ready for a decent overhaul. You could pull your valve covers and check for sludge build up there also.

Good luck,

Slik

>the oil pressure dropped to nothing, according to the gauge. I heard a ticking noise from the top end of the motor....

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: '81 F-150 300 Six carb problems
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:27:32 -0500

had a Rambler that did that once...first time had me looking all over for
the problem.....after I fixed it once, every time the engine started acting
up I just got the screwdriver out.....:-)

According to Smokey, Chevies like to run lean but that rambler didn't like
it at all :-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>I ran into a 300 ci six one year and you couldn't keep the
>screws holding the
>body of the carb to the base tight. This was a wierd one.

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Oil pressure drop
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:38:42 -0500

We have to ask the proverbial question here.....how many miles and how often
was the oil changed??? If it is sludged then it either is never run hot or
it is badly worn and blow by is causing it, if it's the pump we have to
wonder why? If it has pressure when cold but it drops quickly once
completely warmed up, at idle, not at speed then we can assume bearings but
if it drops at speed then there is a problem that needs to be addressed and
it may be as simple as a sender or sender connection (a very common
problem). Check the sender connection first, pinch the socket so it fits
more snugly on the threaded pin then try a new sender, then open up the
pan.....in that order :-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>I have an '88 Ford F-150, 4.9L, I-6. Just had the oil changed,
>and as I was
>driving down the freeway, the oil pressure dropped to nothing,
>according to
>the gauge. I heard a ticking noise from the top end of the motor. That
>sounded to me like sticky lifters. I checked, and the motor is
>full of oil.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 06:20:14 +1100
From: les williams cyber.net.au>
Subject: Re: Propane and Natural Gas

Hi Chris,
I was not suggesting that you lived in USA, but you had sometime in the past
visited & maybe re-fuelled in the USA, anyway your a hell of a lot closer to that
action than I am.
Geez, the things you can learn on this list. You have to get training to fill you
own tank??
and pay $70 for the privilege?? As we'd say down here 'What a Rip-off'..... Youse
can stick that idea where the sun don't shine!!!
So having the spitter valve, I assume then it is like filling a jumbo BBQ bottle?
When it starts to blow mist and ice-up, time to shut it off ? So you are venting
the tank to the atmosphere during refill operations. Or worst still if the tank is
in the boot of a car, it's quite possible to fill the car with propane fumes ? If
this is so, no wonder you have so many 'Nervous Nellies' over there concerned about
propane usage. I know Phred has mentioned connecting his BBQ to the truck tank on
'field trips', we don't have a vapour only out fitting on our tanks, well not
legally. If you have an RV you will still have to fill a separate 9kg bottle for
the fridge and stove. Our tanks are date stamped and every 10 years must be removed
from the truck and retested and stamped for another 10 years usage. Is there
anything else I'm missing out on?

LPG refuelling down here in OZ is no more difficult than screwing the station's
hand piece to you filling port or tank fitting. I fill 2 x 100 ltr tanks in less
than 10 minutes. The 3/8' filler line goes to both tanks. There is no spit back, no
fumes, no fuss, and the browser cuts out when the perceived correct fill pressure
is realized. You learn through experience which servo has the trip pressure set
higher and you can squeeze in a little extra LPG. The Cab drivers fill up at the
end of each shift, so that means the cab is refuelled 2-3 times a day, so it has to
be easy.
Once filled, unscrew the hand piece from you truck, at this point the LPG trapped
under pressure, between the hand piece and your filler valve will be released. This
will be the only time you get any whiff of LPG fuel. The fact is I have become so
used to LPG refuelling being so 'clean' and easy, I find petrol refuelling the 36
imperial gallon tank on my Falcon, usually results in me and the back of the car
wearing it....

Thank You, Chris, for setting me straight. This is one of the problems with
international exchange of ideas, I am assuming you have, whilst limited, but equal
filling station facilities, and you guy's in turn, seeing how it works there, and
assuming it's the same down here, are probably wondering why the hell would I put
up with all that crap just to save 10 or 20c per gallon for LPG. Hmmmm. I'm
learning.

Not one single book or article on LPG that I have read, has pointed out this
serious refuelling difference, and I for one would consider availability & ease of
refuelling to be very high on the list of priority for a happy propane conversion.

If you are just starting to get a handle on this petrol/LPG business, get your
brain around this. In New Zealand it is possible to have Petrol/LPG/NG all on the
same truck.......and I have been told it's not abnormal for cars to have any two of
the above combinations ...... and Ford have produced for the NZ market of about 4
million people and 26 million sheep, paxton type supercharged LPG 6 pack EL Falcon
cars, assembled in OZ, and only sold in NZ.
Bummer.....
Just when you think that you have seen it all.........;-))

Maybe we need to organize O/S field trips...........
...... But I'm still having fun in a Ford on LPG.

regards
Les
Lost in the Land of OZ


Chris McKinnon wrote:

> Well, I'm not in the states, I'm in BC but herer the filling is done by
> trained people at gas stations. Getting the training to do it you self
> (legaly) is about $70. I do fill my self up once and a while at my local
> station. My tank doesn't have an auto-shutoff so I need to use the spitter
> valve on the tank (it does help the filling speed though.)
> Go for it!
> Chris
> '84 F150
> 351W on propane
> NP 435
> NP 208
> 287K Km


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:17:05 -0800
From: Chris McKinnon cnx.net>
Subject: Re: Propane and Natural Gas

>Hi Chris,
>I was not suggesting that you lived in USA, but you had sometime in the past
>visited & maybe re-fuelled in the USA, anyway your a hell of a lot closer
to >that action than I am.

Sorry, it just that the one thing Canadians hate, is being confused with an
american!

>Geez, the things you can learn on this list. You have to get training to
fill >you own tank?? and pay $70 for the privilege?? As we'd say down here
'What a >Rip-off'..... Youse can stick that idea where the sun don't shine!!!

All in the name of "safety" I think it's dumb but...

>So having the spitter valve, I assume then it is like filling a jumbo BBQ
>bottle? When it starts to blow mist and ice-up, time to shut it off ? So
you >are venting the tank to the atmosphere during refill operations. Or
worst still >if the tank is in the boot of a car, it's quite possible to
fill the car with >propane fumes? If this is so, no wonder you have so many
'Nervous Nellies' over >there concerned about propane usage.

My spitter is mounted right on the tank but the can be moved elsewere with
some hose. You know its full when it spits liquid propane.

>I know Phred has mentioned connecting his BBQ to the truck tank on 'field
>trips', we don't have a vapour only out fitting on our tanks, well not
legally. >If you have an RV you will still have to fill a separate 9kg
bottle for the >fridge and stove. Our tanks are date stamped and every 10
years must be removed >from the truck and retested and stamped for another
10 years usage. Is there >anything else I'm missing out on?

My tank has a vapour fitting right next to the liquid fitting. It is plugged
but I like Phred idea of putting a standard tank valve in there for running
a BBQ or oxy-propane torch. I know that our small tanks (15, 25, 50 and 100
Lb) are only good for 10 years than they need to be recertified. As for
truck tanks I' not sure as mine hasen't ever been checked. I know that the
systems are checked when they are installed though.

>Thank You, Chris, for setting me straight. This is one of the problems with
>international exchange of ideas, I am assuming you have, whilst limited,
but >equal filling station facilities, and you guy's in turn, seeing how it
works >there, and assuming it's the same down here, are probably wondering
why the >hell would I put up with all that crap just to save 10 or 20c per
gallon for >LPG. Hmmmm. I'm learning.

Up here there are lots of propane stations around. I'd say that a least 35%
(most likely more) of the gas stations here also serve propane. Like I
always say, I'll never change back to gas.
Chris
'84 F150
351W on propane
NP 435
NP 208
287K Km


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:51:23 -0500
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: ADMIN: I'm back

Hi gang. Peggy and I are back from her grandfather's funeral.
We decided that there wasn't much point in staying the entire
weekend and left a couple of hours after the funeral. He was
a very good man who's been suffering with cancer for months.

If you'll indulge me for a few sentences....

I hold in high regard anyone, regardless of their faith (ie,
Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc) who can follow that
faith 100%. Its something I have a very difficult time doing.
Peggy's grandfather, "Doc", was one such man who, as a country
physician, had helped countless individuals and practiced
medicine in his retirement home to the very end. Very well
loved man who had a sincere belief in his God and did his
best to help others, even to the point of being taken
advantage of. I didn't know him very long, but his death
touched me deeply. I think his dying words said it all...

"For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure
is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my
course, I have kept the faith" 2 Timothy, 4:6-7

Can you imagine going out with those words? Hearing it left me
....


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