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Received: with LISTAR (v0.129a; list 80-96-list); Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:24:28 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:24:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: 80-96-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
Reply-to: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: 80-96-list Digest V2000 #135
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------------------------------------
80-96-list Digest Tue, 11 Jul 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 135

In This Issue:
Re: 300 I6 Needs more power
Shop Manual Request
300 six needs more power
Re: can't remove fuel filter
Coolant temp sensor
Re: Coolant temp sensor
Re: 300 I6 Needs more power
Re: 300 I6 Needs more power
84 F!50 Ball Joint Removal
Re: TPS measurements
Re: 300 I6 Needs more power
Re: 300I6 needs more power
Re: 300I6 needs more power
Voltmeter Alternative
460 questions
Re: 300 I6 Needs more power
Re: 300I6 needs more power
Re: 84 F!50 Ball Joint Removal
Re: 300I6 needs more power
outside air intake
Clutch replacement question
Re: 300 I6 Needs more power

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Serian" flashmail.com>
Subject: Re: 300 I6 Needs more power
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:53:10 -0400

> You can easily dump a ton of money into a 300-six
> with an exhaust, cam and fuel modification, but when
> you get all done (no offense intended), you still have a
> 6 cylinder engine with 6-banger power. Even using a
> souped-up 300 cu. in. engine to pull a 3500 pound trailer
> and expecting the engine NOT to bog down on hills is
> a bit unrealistic.

Maybe I got hold of a good one then :-)
My 1983 F150 with a (stock w/1V Carter YF carb) 300 inline
six easily pulled a 6500 pound car home up some pretty steep
inclines in 3rd gear (NP435 trans, 3.08 axle gear ratio) with
power to spare.


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:21:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roger Lane excite.com>
Subject: Shop Manual Request

If someone on this list has the Ford shop manuals for an 89 F250 4x4, could
you please email me offline? I have a couple of questions about the Mazda
tranny that might be in the factory service manual.
TIA
Roger Lane

"Accomplishing the impossible only means the boss will add it to your
regular duties."





_______________________________________________________
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html


------------------------------

From: "James" colstate.edu>
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:43:15 -0500
Subject: 300 six needs more power

> >I have a 1989 F150 with the 300 six and Mazda 5 speed.
>
> Now this interests me James...Did that tranny come stock
> or is it something that you put in?
> Chuck

It is the stock transmission that came in the truck. It seems to
work fine for me but many don't think it will stand up to heavy duty
hauling.

HTH,
James H




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:36:55 -0700
From: forest barker home.com>
Subject: Re: can't remove fuel filter

to remove the fuel folter you need a special tool that will remove the
line from the filter. remember that the system is pressurized so release
the pressure first.
bub

melissa emanuelson wrote:
>
> The fuel filter problem, I have a '95 and had to go to the local NAPA store
> and purchase a special wrench to get the fuel filter seperated from the fuel
> lines. Warning: if that '92 is fuel injected, you have to shut off the
> fuel via an inertia switch to relieve pressure. I cheated and had a
> chiltons manual to help me out. Hope this helps.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cyber9" lmtonline.com>
> To: <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 12:53 AM
> Subject: [80-96-list] can't remove fuel filter
>
> >
> > My brother has a 1992 F150,302,2wd,supercab, i cant seem to get the fuel
> filter out, its easy to take it out from my 1990 F150 truck, any suggestions
> on how to remove the filter? Having trouble disconnecting the fuel lines off
> the filter.
> >
> > ==========================================================
> > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> > the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the
> > message.
> >
> >
>
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> http://www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.

------------------------------

From: DTrowbridge webtv.net (David Trowbridge)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:02:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Coolant temp sensor

does anyone know if the coolant temp sensor does anything besides
sending a signal to the gauge on an 85 F-150 300 I6? i am going to be
installing an aftermarket temp sensor and wil be using the factory
provisions to supply the aftermarket gauge with a signal. will it work
ok, or does the truck use the sensor for calculating ignition timing?
thanx.....

David
85 F-150 300 I6


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:28:20 -0700
From: chuck sanborn deltanet.com>
Subject: Re: Coolant temp sensor

At 06:02 PM 7/11/00 -0500, you wrote:
>does anyone know if the coolant temp sensor does anything besides
>sending a signal to the gauge on an 85 F-150 300 I6

To which one are you referring. The Coolant Temp Sensor sends signals
to the EEC. The Temp Sending Unit (on the right side, rear of the block)
only works the gauge.

Chuck Sanborn
Torrance, CA
86 F150 300 cu in six banger
FAX 1-310-822-6815


------------------------------

From: DJ250r aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:06:38 EDT
Subject: Re: 300 I6 Needs more power

towing not a real prob. its just the hills that kill,my f.i. I6 dose fair on
flat ground

------------------------------

From: FULSZBRONC aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:38:55 EDT
Subject: Re: 300 I6 Needs more power

<<<<<<<'83-'87 120HP 3200, 250 ft-lb 1600 (1-bbl. carb.)
'88-'90 150HP 3400, 260 ft-lb 2000 (F.I.)

Ouch, no wonder we love our V-8's so much. But hey wait,
look at the
2-bbl carb'ed 351:

'83-'85 150 HP 3200, 280 ft-lb 2000 >>>>>>>>

The way HP ratings are reported by manufacturers are - by design - quite
deceptive. The 300-I6 may make 150 HP, but at 3400 RPM
it's pretty much all over. The 351 V8 makes the same HP at
3200 rpm but there's usually at least 1000 usable rpm's left.
RPM makes horsepower ......and the V8 makes rpm
while the 6 cylinder makes low-end torque. All that just to
say " I LOVE MY FORD V8"!! I own and drive 2 351HO's, I get
about the same gas mileage as a 300-6 - without the pleasure of watching the
scenery slowly pass by on the hills.
Disclaimer: No disrespect intended to 300 cube owners and drivers. No one
else makes a 6 cylinder engine as bullet-proof and low-end powerful as Ford.
It's a great engine.
Alex


<<<<<<<'83-'87 120HP 3200, 250 ft-lb 1600 (1-bbl. carb.)
'88-'90 150HP 3400, 260 ft-lb 2000 (F.I.)

Ouch, no wonder we love our V-8's so much. But hey wait,
look at the
2-bbl carb'ed 351:

'83-'85 150 HP 3200, 280 ft-lb 2000 >>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: MRStace84aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:09:39 EDT
Subject: 84 F!50 Ball Joint Removal

Hello List,

I've been trying to change the right side ball joints on my 84 F150 4x4.
I've got it all torn down, and I'm trying to get the ball joints out. They
are the orginal ones, so they are just a little rusty, and hard to get out.
Just wondering if any of you guys had any tips on getting them out, other
than a really big hammer.

Thanks
Stacy Fisher
84 F150 4x4
98 Ranger XLT 4x4

------------------------------

From: kb9odg.markjuno.com
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:08:25 -0500
Subject: Re: TPS measurements

> KB9ODG first asked:
> How do you measure your TPS voltage to see if it is working?
> I just
> tried and got a constant 12.4 volts between it and ground on
> both
> leads.
> I tried resistance between the two leads and got a constant
> resistance no
> matter how I moved the throttle. I thought I knew how to do
> this,
> but I
> guess not. Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Phred then replied:
>
> Hey "KB9-Ohh-Dog-Gone", you should not have 12 volts around the TPS
> circuit
> because the sensor has three wires, one is 5 Volts power, one is PCM
> ground,
> and one is the TPS signal. Usually at idle position you will have
> 0.7 to 0.9
> Volts.
> If you are measuring off the '88 5.0L engine, this TPS is at the
> bottom of
> the throttle body, at one end of the butterfly shaft, you can see
> it, touch
> it but working with it is a bear because it is hard to get right on
> it.
> Removing the throttle plate assembly (4 bolts, clamp the coolant
> lines off,
> disconnect throttle cable from linkage, its a 1/4 beer job to
> remove).
>
> Where you are getting the 12 Volts reading, is it this same sensor?
> I got
> the impression your sensor had two wires, the TPS has three. I hope
> you have
> another sensor because otherwise you might have some bad news coming
> to you.
>
>
> Hey, BTW, who is "Creed"? I am good at asking dumb questions aren't
> I?
>
> Phred KD5AQB
> 1995 4X4 E.B. with propane or gasoline fed 5.0L, 5-speed short bed.
>

KB9ODG then said:

No wonder I didn't get anything like I had hoped. Is there some throttle
motor or idle motor that is on top of the throttle body on the 300 EFI?
That's what I was looking at. I'll go look at it again now. .... Oh
man, I feel stupid now. Right behind the two wire connector I played
with a few days ago, is the three wire connector for the TPS. Mark
Salvetti wrote me and told me which wires are which ones so I can test
it. I'll try that later tonight. And it's on the back of the throttle
body.

Creed is a musical group that I'm really liking right now. good music
and good lyrics too.

- Mark Reimers KB9ODG
'66 Bronco 170 I-6, 3-speed, 3.5" suspension lift, 3" body lift, 35"
tires ...
with an '88 5.0L and AOD waiting to go in!
'87 F-150 XLT 4x2 300 I-6, 4-speed, straight pipe ...

"Don't let go of that youthfull soul. Despite body and mind your youth
will never die." - Creed
________________________________________________________________





------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:14:08 -0700
From: Paul Harp mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: 300 I6 Needs more power

Steve, any chance you might have hp and torque curves for these engines? I'm asking for my own interest (I have a 1989 F150 with the 300 I6) but also because the curves may show more of a difference in output between the 300 and 351 than is indicated by just looking at peak numbers.

Thanks for posting the numbers. I've been curious about the power rating of the 300 ever since I bought the truck last October.

Paul Harp

> '83-'87 120HP 3200, 250 ft-lb 1600 (1-bbl. carb.)
> '88-'90 150HP 3400, 260 ft-lb 2000 (F.I.)
>
> Ouch, no wonder we love our V-8's so much. But hey wait, look at the 2-bbl
> carb'ed 351:
>
> '83-'85 150 HP 3200, 280 ft-lb 2000
>
> A newer F.I. 300 I-6 is making roughly the same output as an older 2-bbl
> 351. Interesting.


------------------------------

From: "Joel Thomas" prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 300I6 needs more power
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 23:01:05 -0500


LOOK!
this is an example not exactly right
if you have a 3.08's and you are going 45 up a hill with the 300I6 and it bogs down it is because it is trying to pull with a RPM(revolutions per minute)that is under it powerband(the rpms the engine make the most power)like it may be dropping down to 1300rpm but if you downshift into
3rd gear you would have to slow down to probably around 35(not right jsut an example)and then you could drive back up to 50 and shift to 4th but then it would bog down again, i know you could drive 35 and forget about but if he doesn't want to or can't because high traffic area. dropping in a 3.55 or 3.73 would make that same 4th gear at 45 have an rpm of around 2500 well in the powerband of the 300I6 so you could actually speed up to 50 and hold till the top of the hill.
now do you get the idea of usefull powerband and rearend gears.
we offroaders drop our axle gears to around 4.56 and we can crawl but the top speed is limited to around 80 because you get out of the engines powerband 4500rpm and it wont pull it anymore.


thanks

Joel Thomas
Little Rock,AR
>I agree that it's all about making the engine run within its power band.
But axle gearing doesn't CHANGE the available engine power, it merely
changes the road speed at which you realize that power. So does
downshifting! Recall this discussion started with a 300 I-6 equipped with a
5-speed tranny, plenty of ratio's, so downshifting is definitely an option.
This is precisely why I did not recommend the axle swap proposed.
>Downshifting is free.





------------------------------

From: DJ250raol.com
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 00:10:57 EDT
Subject: Re: 300I6 needs more power

ok how much for the gear change i might want to get taller tires ,i have 31
10 5 now a bit taller than stock and it seemed to suck my power away when i
put them on
95 f150 I6 5 spd x cab

------------------------------

From: "Mark Salvetti" mediaone.net>
Subject: Voltmeter Alternative
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 00:37:30 -0400

For an easy alternative to a hard-wired voltmeter, check out this plug-in
unit from Intellitronix: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intellitronix.com/m9025.html

You can get it from Summit Racing for about $40, Part # ITC-M9025. The
gauge is about 2" in diameter. It also keeps track of the highest reading
since it was last powered up.

I've heard a couple of people say it works well, but I haven't bought one
yet.

Mark Salvetti
1986 F150


------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 00 21:37:37 PDT
From: Tim Clevenger usa.net>
Subject: 460 questions

Hi all.

Two quick questions. Vehicle is question is an '85 F250 with the 460 and
T-19:

1. Which carburetor model does this come with? I can't seem to find the
tag.

2. I assume I'm going to have problems with California smog on this. It is a
non-cat vehicle, so I assume that will be taken into effect. Therefore, if I
put a cat on it, how much will this improve my chances of passing? How much
of each type of pollutant does a cat actually cut?

Thanks.

Tim Clevenger

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1

------------------------------

From: soffilercentraltools.com
Subject: Re: 300 I6 Needs more power
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 07:01:58 -0400

Paul:

Unfortunately, no, I don't have curves. I know exactly what you mean,
though. The curves tell the whole story, versus just a couple of peak
points. Matter of fact, I understand the curves pretty well in-depth. I'm
a mechanical engineer working in the automotive industry. I even wrote a
computer program back in college (in 1983... on an Apple IIe...!) for a
class called "Air Breathing Engines". It would fit curves based on three
points (an assumption at idle, plus the HP at the T peak, and the HP at the
HP peak) plus some mathematical tweaks derived from a family of actual
curves. It worked surprisingly well, but is long-lost.

All I have for reference here at work is the '83-'90 MOTOR Light Truck and
Van Repair Manual - Professional Service Trade Edition. Happy to look up
any numbers for anyone.

Steve O.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 80-96-list-bounceford-trucks.com
> [mailto:80-96-list-bounceford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Paul Harp
> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 12:14 AM
> To: 80-96-listford-trucks.com
> Subject: [80-96-list] Re: 300 I6 Needs more power
>
>
> Steve, any chance you might have hp and torque curves for
> these engines? I'm asking for my own interest (I have a 1989
> F150 with the 300 I6) but also because the curves may show
> more of a difference in output between the 300 and 351 than
> is indicated by just looking at peak numbers.
>
> Thanks for posting the numbers. I've been curious about the
> power rating of the 300 ever since I bought the truck last October.
>
> Paul Harp
>


------------------------------

From: soffilercentraltools.com
Subject: Re: 300I6 needs more power
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 07:16:06 -0400

> LOOK!
> this is an example not exactly right
> if you have a 3.08's and you are going 45 up a hill with the
> 300I6 and it bogs down it is because it is trying to pull
> with a RPM(revolutions per minute)that is under it
> powerband(the rpms the engine make the most power)like it may
> be dropping down to 1300rpm but if you downshift into
> 3rd gear you would have to slow down to probably around
> 35(not right jsut an example)and then you could drive back up
> to 50 and shift to 4th but then it would bog down again, i
> know you could drive 35 and forget about but if he doesn't
> want to or can't because high traffic area. dropping in a
> 3.55 or 3.73 would make that same 4th gear at 45 have an rpm
> of around 2500 well in the powerband of the 300I6 so you
> could actually speed up to 50 and hold till the top of the hill.
> now do you get the idea of usefull powerband and rearend gears.


I already had the idea without the benefit of your posting, thanks anyway.

If I'm reading your posting right (which isn't all that easy) you are saying
the 3.08 rear in 4th gear at 45 mph will give 1300 engine rpm, but going to
a 3.55 or 3.73 will raise rpm to around 2500.

Um, nope. The 3.55 is 15.3% steeper than the 3.08, and will raise rpm by
exactly 15.3%. 1300 rpm becomes 1500 rpm. Likewise the 3.73 is 21.1%
steeper and 1300 rpm becomes 1575 rpm. NOT around 2500 rpm.

If the engine in this example (the I-6) makes peak HP around 3200 rpm, and
you're bogging in 4th going down to 1300rpm, DOWNSHIFT! You NEED to get it
back up toward 3000-ish to extract near the peak HP. I can see changing out
an axle ratio when you go to oversize tires, or if you want to increase the
creep of your creeper gear, or if the engine is *always* running just below
its powerband at common road speeds (like 65mph in 5th).


Steve Offiler
soffilercentraltools.com
'97 F250HD XL 4x4, 351, E40D, 4.10's


------------------------------

From: soffilercentraltools.com
Subject: Re: 84 F!50 Ball Joint Removal
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 07:21:37 -0400

Stacy:

I'd attack that job with (a) the correct ball joint installer/remover (looks
like a big C-clamp); (b) a lot of penetrating oil (c) some heat (d)
patience - the penetrating oil works best if you heat the parts, spray it
on, tap lightly with a hammer, walk away, come back later, repeat...


Steve Offiler
soffilercentraltools.com
'97 F250HD XL 4x4, 351, E40D, 4.10's

> Hello List,
>
> I've been trying to change the right side ball joints on my
> 84 F150 4x4.
> I've got it all torn down, and I'm trying to get the ball
> joints out. They
> are the orginal ones, so they are just a little rusty, and
> hard to get out.
> Just wondering if any of you guys had any tips on getting
> them out, other
> than a really big hammer.
>


------------------------------

From: DJ250raol.com
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:14:58 EDT
Subject: Re: 300I6 needs more power

thats what i kinda need truck bogs realy bad pulling my boat out of the
water i have to ride the clutch to get it out and boy dose that stink lol ,i
am looking for a tire change i plan on going to a 33s and i want the truck
to have the feel of the stock gearing with those 33s on there agian how much
is a gear change???

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:20:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: craig eggerman juno.com>
Subject: outside air intake

Someone earlier asked about an outside air duct. I put one in on my 88 E-350
that had dual batteries in it. This entailed using 4 inch fexible heavy duty
metal dryer vent tube. About $4. I took the grill off, popped the plastic
plate off in the lower left hand corner, increased the size of the opening
below the second battery tray and wormed it through and up to match up with
the breather box connection. This took some time as this area is full of
extra battery cables, transmission cooler lines and oil cooler lines. It
works great. Cost $4.
Craig Eggerman


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:48:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Wagner hh.bc.ca>
Subject: Clutch replacement question


Hi, I have a 1994 F150 4x4 with a 300-six and a 5 speed overdrive,
hydraulic clutch. There's a little less than 100,000 miles on it.

Silly me, I lent it to my cousin, and it came back with no clutch.

Now, I usually do my own work on vehicles (axle seals, brakes, and once a
pair of head gaskets on my boss' truck), and I have fairly good tools and
axle stands and stuff, but I'm a little worried about dropping the tranny
and doing the job all by myself.

I am assuming that I have the infamed Mazda 5-speed close-ratio. There's
no granny gear. The transmission body looks like aluminum, with a cast
body that has aluminum ribs running in circles outside it. The bell
housing is not removable, but rather is part of the transmission case.

My question is: what's involved in a clutch job? Do I have to remove the
transfer case, then drop the whole tranny, or do I have to pull the
drive-shafts (new U-joints?), then the transfer case, then the tranny?
Will I have to remove (and rebleed?) the slave cylinder? Can it be done
on a carport floor under axle stands with a floor-jack? Tell me, `O great
experienced Ford Truck people!

I also have a question about door hinge bushings, but I'll save it for
another day...


Bill Wagner in northern British Columbia.














------------------------------

From: "Nelson Vasconcelos" mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: 300 I6 Needs more power
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:15:19 -0400

Hi, I just got a chance to read the conversation you guys had about the 300
I6 and it's power. As a matter a fact I have the same truck as you James. I
have an 89 F150 4x4, 300 I6, 5spd with 97k miles. I know exactly what your
talking about with the issue of climbing hills. I have a 3" body and 4"
suspension lift running 33x12.50x15's. With those tires and 3.08 gears the
truck will lose about 10-15 mph when going up good size hills on the highway
when it's in overdrive, not to mention acceleration isn't great. If I stay
in 4th gear on the highway it climbs hills ok and acceleration is pretty
good. Since the motor is out of it's powerband it can't get all it's useable
power to the ground and of course this is also hurting my gas mileage. I
figure a change to 3.55's will put the RPMs and speedo right where they
should be. With the factory gears It's just working too hard to overcome the
tires; they actually make the gear ratio a 2.70. I'm working on getting
parts and someone to do the work on my axles a.s.a.p. If you want to play
around with gear ratio ideas visit www.4lo.com it's a great site.

I gonna keep my 300 I6, it's a great motor with a lot of torque, it's very
reliable, and it's good on gas as long as you keep it in the powerband. With
the right modifications a 6cyl can be equal to or better than a 8cyl, just
like they say at www.cliffordperformance.com , they specialize in 4 and 6cyl
engines.

Right now all I've done to the motor is put in a K&N filter, Gibson 3" cat
back exhaust, and an electric cooling fan. I ordered a Jacobs Pro Street
ignition system and I'll probably install it this or next weekend. I'm
pulling some extra hp and torque out of it but the biggest difference will
be when the gears get swaped.

Let me know...Seeya,
Nelson


------------------------------

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