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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 80-96-list); Sun, 18 Jun 2000 19:27:06 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 19:27:06 -0400 (EDT)
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Subject: 80-96-list Digest V2000 #115
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80-96-list Digest Fri, 16 Jun 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 115
In This Issue:
Re: gas bottles
EXCESSIVE CRANKING ON A COLD START
Re: gas bottles
351w to 460 convert
From: Fred Moreno
Subject: Re: gas bottles
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:52:34 -0600
Just a question but I assume, like the N2O that I use, that the gas
have to be kept at a low temp/pressure level as not to endanger you,
truck, or the feeding system. Do you have a cover over it? or is the
not like the Nitrous?
When you see a truck or car with a motor fuel propane tank, the fuel is
stored under pressure. Each tank has a pressure relief valve of 250 psi.
Some of these pressure relief valves are 312 psi but I am not sure why the
The rule is that one may only fill a motor fuel tank to 80% of its liquid
capacity, this is to allow for the buildup of vapor - unlike water, propane
boils at -40F. When it boils, its volume is multiplied by roughly 270 times,
so this creates a fair amount of pressure, but this pressure keeps the most
of the fuel in a liquid state once it reaches an equilibrium.
No we don't have to cover our tanks, we can only fill them legally to 80%.
Each tank has a "spit" valve that starts to spit out liquid when the 80%
capacity has been reached.
Newer tanks have an automatic shutoff that stops any more fuel from
entering. Mine was way off base and would only let me have 65%, so it sort
of "got broke" during a re-installation" procedure. Now I just have the
serviceman shutoff the fuel flow when the spit valve has liquid coming out.
In the warm weather like today (103F) you don't want to push your luck
having a very full tank of propane and pulling out into traffic that's not
moving due to some accident on the freeway.
What may happen is the pressure relief valve will release several gallons
of pretty white propane very quickly and very loudly (typically a 2 second
burst and sounds like a freight train). The occupants in the vehicle behind
you are sure to stain their seats when that happens. You know what the say,
"caca happens" and its happened to my tank - don't know about the staining
part though but what a Kodak moment that would of made.
Its not really dangerous unless somebody has an open flame/spark/cigarette
right behind you and they would be the ones getting torched, not you.
Note that even when motor fuel tank is considered empty because the vehicle
won't run off the propane pressure that exist in the tank, it is still very
full of propane...propane vapors. You could connect your BBQ grill and use
it for couple hours before running out of pressurized fuel. So treat an
empty tank with lots of respect, its easier to ignite vapors than liquid
anyday of the week.
Most propane systems on the road today rely on the pressure inside the tank
to push the fuel through the system. They have no fuel pump, its pressure
inside the tank that feeds the system. Once the pressure drops you may be
parked, but there still fuel in the tank.
Well its 5:00 on a warm Friday afternoon, I have written too much already
and feel a real desire to head home. If I offend anyone, sorry, I've got the
Friday itch. Ya'll have a good week-end.
From: "Hal Sylvan"
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:43:16 -0700
Just had the E4OD tranny rebuilt in my 91 F350, 196K and seals bad. Now it
really slams from 1st to 2nd and a little less from 2nd to 3rd. Also it
still acts goofy. It will hang up around 2400 rpm for 3 or 4 seconds before
shifting up but will shift up immediately if I back off on the accelerator.
Is this normal for the E4OD?
When I went to pick up the truck, the mechanic said the upshift would be
"stiff" as he had put in and RV package which was heavier/stiffer springs in
the valve bodies. The shifting would smooth out when I pulled the boat and
camper I had told him about.
I had experienced the hard shifting and smoothing out under load some time
before the tranny blew. I thought it was a symptom of an old gearbox.
Is this guy blowing smoke to cover bad work? Before I take it back and
complain I would like an unbiased opinion / your experience.
Thanks, Hal Sylvan
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 21:07:54 -0700
From: Marv & Marge
Subject: Cargo Light
Alas, my '89 250 "Custom" (cheapie) cab has no cargo light. I would like to
add one, but I'm thinking that a High-Mounted-Third-Brakelight/Cargo Light
combination might be better.
Anybody got an idea what year the combo light fixtures were first used, and is
this the same sheet metal profile as an '89?
Subject: EXCESSIVE CRANKING ON A COLD START
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 23:26:51 -1000
I threw in the towell and took the 89 F-150 302 EFI to the dealer, ugh !
After some preliminary trouble shooting they subed the PCM (power control
module) and the problem went away. Total bill is supposed to come to $504.00
My thanks to the guys who tried to help me out. Aloha
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 22:13:21 +1000
From: les williams
Subject: Re: gas bottles
A part of what Phred Moreno wrote:
> Most propane systems on the road today rely on the pressure inside the tank
> to push the fuel through the system. They have no fuel pump, its pressure
> inside the tank that feeds the system. Once the pressure drops you may be
> parked, but there is still fuel in the tank.
I would assume that 'nephew' Phred is bright enough not to have actually
run out of fuel, either petrol or propane, but for the rest that are
wondering what do you do, when you running out of propane, well you will
literally be running on the fumes of the tank. By nursing it along, not
trying to push too hard, not that you can, and just keep you nerve and
feathering the throttle, it is possible to travel another 6 or 7 miles,
at about 25 mph, depending on hills & your luck. Yeah, been there, done
Not at all like petrol, when the pumps pump air, that's it. Now Walk.
The right and propper rescue method is to call a tow truck for
assistance to the nearest LPG refill station, however there are, hmmmm,
how should I put it, not quite legal plumbing 'hacks' based on the 9 kg
(20lb ?) B-B-Q bottle used to get by. If this sounds sus, then think
about it, after ripping the petrol system out and installing a Propane
system, how do you fill a new tank & start the vehicle the first time on
'Uncle' [Do I NOW believe the fuel gauge ?] Les
A question for the Engine trivia buffs out there:
In 1867, at the paris world fair both N A Otto & J E Lenoir displayed
town gas fuelled internal combustion engines. In 1875 W Maybech
converted a gas engine to run on petrol.
( and you all thought converting to propane was a new thing ) The
gasoline 'carby' featured a wick suspended across the incoming air flow.
Question: How long was the wick ?
I've got no idea either, but I am curious as to if it was adjustable
for power or cruise, etc. ;-))
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 13:14:32 -0500
Subject: Re: E4OD
Seems like there have been some posts about hard shifting with E4OD. They kinda
stuck in my mind 'cause I remember thinking "I hope my '96 doesn't start doing
that". Probably could search deja.com for E4OD. Also, this guy has great site
for diesels. Even ansered some injection questions I emailed.
Gook luck and post what you find out.
Hal Sylvan wrote:
> Just had the E4OD tranny rebuilt in my 91 F350, 196K and seals bad. Now it
> really slams from 1st to 2nd and a little less from 2nd to 3rd. Also it
> still acts goofy. It will hang up around 2400 rpm for 3 or 4 seconds before
> shifting up but will shift up immediately if I back off on the accelerator.
> Is this normal for the E4OD?
> When I went to pick up the truck, the mechanic said the upshift would be
> "stiff" as he had put in and RV package which was heavier/stiffer springs in
> the valve bodies. The shifting would smooth out when I pulled the boat and
> camper I had told him about.
> I had experienced the hard shifting and smoothing out under load some time
> before the tranny blew. I thought it was a symptom of an old gearbox.
> Is this guy blowing smoke to cover bad work? Before I take it back and
> complain I would like an unbiased opinion / your experience.
> Thanks, Hal Sylvan
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject of the
Subject: 351w to 460 convert
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:24:23 -0400
Hi all- i have been lurking for about a year now- and i belive my topic has
been brought up a time or two- unfortunately my computer crashed and all of
my archives were lost :-( Anyhoo- i have an 84 F350 4x4 with a 4speed and a
351W in it currently- the 351 is still living (but in a terminal state) and
i recently acquired a 70- something 460 that runs great- wondering what all
parts i need and how difficult the swap will be- what companies sell
conversion componets and such? I am not overly concerned in keeping the smog
system- and will the headers that are on it now (out of a 63 F100) fit in
this truck? My main concern is to keep the p/s pump working right and to get
this thing in there cheap and soon.
1984 F350 4x4 "Big Red"
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