From: owner-80-96-list-digest ford-trucks.com (80-96-list-digest)
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Subject: 80-96-list-digest V3 #336
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80-96-list-digest Monday, November 29 1999 Volume 03 : Number 336



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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In this issue:

Re: Fw: FTE 80-96 - re: HeadGasket?
FTE 80-96 - temp gauge
FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE
FTE 80-96 - Seat
Re: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE
Re: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE
Re: FTE 80-96 - Seat
FTE 80-96 - Gas tanks again
Re: FTE 80-96 - Seat
Re: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE
Re: FTE 80-96 - temp gauge
FTE 80-96 - ADMIN: Web site updates
FTE 80-96 - An 84 F-350 w/ a crummy motor
FTE 80-96 - Tach?
FTE 80-96 - Thoughts on Building a 460
Re: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE
Re: FTE 80-96 - An 84 F-350 w/ a crummy motor
RE: FTE 80-96 - An 84 F-350 w/ a crummy motor
Re: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE
Re: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE
Re: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE
Re: FTE 80-96 - An 84 F-350 w/ a crummy motor
Re: FTE 80-96 - Seat
Re: FTE 80-96 - An 84 F-350 w/ a crummy motor

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 12:33:29 -0600
From: "Ed Mount"
Subject: Re: Fw: FTE 80-96 - re: HeadGasket?

Suggestion:
Change to the new upgraded "fancy" orange antifreeze. See if the color of
the mystery substance in the tailpipe changes to orange or stays green.

Ed
- -----Original Message-----
From: Blake Malkamaki
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: FTE 80-96 - re: HeadGasket?


|>----- Original Message -----
|>From: Steve Schmeckpeper
|>
|>" I (as Ken) thought twas antifreeze,"
|>
|>OOPS! Meant to say (as Blake)
|>Sorry,
|>Absentminded Smeck
|
|Collect some of it and determine what it is. The only time I have seen
|green liquid coming from an exhaust, it has been antifreeze.
|
|
|Blake
|Little Mountain
|Concord, Ohio
|Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
|http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
|http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
|"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
|"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."
|
|
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|

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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:09:14 EST
From: "Fordtrucks 15"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - temp gauge

I have an '82 F-150, and the temperature gauge has went up on it. When
you start it up it moves up to the "C" line. First, being the truck is
almost 18 years old, I changed the thermostat, even though it runs
flawlessly. Still the same thing. So I'm guessing it's the gauge, anyone got
any tips how to fix the gauge? Everything is in perfect working order, and I
can't stand not being able to read the temperature gauge. Any help would be
greatly appreciated. thanks.

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:20:25 EST
From: SlamedF150 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE

DOES ANYONE'S AMP GAUGE WORK. MINE HARDY MOVES WHEN I START THE TRUCK. JUST
ABOUT EVERYONE'S I LOOKED AT DOESN'T WORK EITHER

CHRIS
87 F-150
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 16:26:35 PST
From: "Christopher Worley"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Seat

Greetings,
Need to know if anyone knows what year Ford started installing Bench
seats in the extended cab on a truck. I have a '93 F150 SC and I have the
jump seats, I would like to find out if the bench was an option, if so where
I might obtain on and what years might fit it (that would really help a a
wrecking yard)

Chris Worley
1993 F-150 SC 351
Waxahachie, TX

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 16:41:50 -0800
From: "Radoje Spasojevic"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE

The amp gauge in my '90 Bronco works just fine. When my alternator went out
it showed a total draw. When I installed a 130A alternator it now stays at
13-14V all the time.

Rade Spasojevic -- rspasoje mindspring.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.2bigbroncos.org/
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=194
- -Rubicon Tested-
- -----Original Message-----
From: SlamedF150 aol.com
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Sunday, November 28, 1999 4:21 PM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE


>DOES ANYONE'S AMP GAUGE WORK. MINE HARDY MOVES WHEN I START THE TRUCK. JUST
>ABOUT EVERYONE'S I LOOKED AT DOESN'T WORK EITHER
>
>CHRIS
>87 F-150
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 16:34:34 -0800
From: Bob Kennedy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE

Mine works, I swapped to mechanical a while back.

Bob


SlamedF150 aol.com wrote:

> DOES ANYONE'S AMP GAUGE WORK. MINE HARDY MOVES WHEN I START THE TRUCK. JUST
> ABOUT EVERYONE'S I LOOKED AT DOESN'T WORK EITHER
>
> CHRIS
> 87 F-150
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:14:16 EST
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Seat

Chris,
Being as the bodystyle are the same from 92-96, I would say if you found one
in that time frame it should fit. I have a 94 extended cab with a full bench.
Later
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:25:50 -0500
From: S Spaulding
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Gas tanks again

I ended up having to replace BOTH gas tanks, because both were rotted
out. The rear one was a b***h. I had to remove the class IV receiver,
the tire, and cut off the Dynomax tailpipes (sounds pretty good with the
pipes cut off 3" behind the muffler!). The spare tire doesn't look too
healthy... the rubber sort of bulges where it was in constant contact
with the gas.

I ended up just calling my NAPA guy to get the tanks, since I have an
account there, and I have no time to go shopping. The cost: $110 for
the rear, and $125 for the front, plus I bought new straps.

I guess it's time for the brake lines to start blowing. Time for some
black duct tape on the rear fenders, tailgate and hood, too.

Steve Spaulding
'91 F150 4x4 - getting lighter every day.
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:25:28 EST
From: ACMERCG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Seat

In a message dated 11/28/1999 8:17:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
FLR150 aol.com writes:


Being as the bodystyle are the same from 92-96, I would say if you found one
in that time frame it should fit. >>
I'll trade you my xlt seat for your seat if it's grey... I have a 92 Nite...
lumbar..

Joe
Lost in Jersey
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:39:47 -0500
From: flagship worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE

It probably is working but if the truck routinely starts quickly and is
driven regularly, it doesn't need a high rate of charge. Try leaving
the headlights on and the fan motor on high for about ten minutes with
the engine off. When you start the truck, it should then show a
charge. Make sure you do it near a charger in case it fails to start.

SlamedF150 aol.com wrote:
>
> DOES ANYONE'S AMP GAUGE WORK. MINE HARDY MOVES WHEN I START THE TRUCK. JUST
> ABOUT EVERYONE'S I LOOKED AT DOESN'T WORK EITHER
>
> CHRIS
> 87 F-150
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:49:11 -0600
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - temp gauge

The sender is probably bad. It screws into the engine. Tell us which engine
you have and we can tell you where the sender is. It is fairly inexpensive
part, available at any auto parts store.

At 19:09 28/11/99 EST, you wrote:
> I have an '82 F-150, and the temperature gauge has went up on it. When
>you start it up it moves up to the "C" line. First, being the truck is
>almost 18 years old, I changed the thermostat, even though it runs
>flawlessly. Still the same thing. So I'm guessing it's the gauge, anyone got
>any tips how to fix the gauge? Everything is in perfect working order, and I
>can't stand not being able to read the temperature gauge. Any help would be
>greatly appreciated. thanks.


Jim Cannon
Houston, TX "A Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton and a helluva' engineer!"
'80 Ford F-150 300 I-6 2WD '63 Buick Riviera 401 V-8
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:41:35 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 80-96 - ADMIN: Web site updates

The following tech articles have been added:
- - Engine Rebuild Advice, by Ken Haley
- - Installing a Detroit Locker, by Bob Kennedy
- - Installing A Dick Cepek Series II 6" lift kit, By Bob Kennedy
- - Installing A 1978 F150 Straight Axle On A 1995 F150, By Daren Woods

The following have been added to the pictorial:
1989 F350
1989 F250
1984 F150 XLT
1978 F150 4x4 Custom
1978 F150
1978 F150
1972 F250 Camper Special

Added to the links:
Software by Jimbo - Free Automotive Software

Later,
Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts


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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:02:45 -0400
From: "Adam"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - An 84 F-350 w/ a crummy motor

I have a 84 F-350 w/ a 351W. It has 129,400 miles on it and the oil pressure
is doing some weird things now. When its cold and idling, the pressure is
between the r and m on the guage ( L \ \ NORMAL/ / H )as it warms up,
idle pressure goes down to where the needle is on the bottom edge below the
N. In stop and go driving at low speed, it goes up to the R, but holding 65
on the interstate sends it back below the N. It has a 4-speed w/ granny
gears, 4x4 so it runs 2800 rpm at 65mph. If i come to a complete stop after
going on the interstate, the pressure will fall even more. I went to 20W50
after 10w30had it dropping below the normal range when I got it (back in
february). This is really annoying becaus it is so erratic, every time I go
out in it I wonder if I'll get back. The 20W50 has made it REALLY hard to
start when cold, barely will turn over, then dies, etc.. Also it has
started backfiring recently, if it's cold and i bring it up to 2500 or more
RPM on the road and then let off the gas It'll backfire something awful, so
bad it cracked the right side manifold. The ignition timing is perfect, and
the carb seems OK.
Also,this thing has a strong vibration at 35-50mph, in both 3rd and 4th.
One final problem- this stupid thing never will warm up, the temp guage has
entered the normal zone only once, when I was going about 90 in July, it
reached the N. The heater works good, but takes forever to start working.
Should I just rebuild this old motor, or do you think ti might have a few
more miles left in it. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Adam Beddingfield A_beddingfield hotmail.com

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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 18:03:49 -0800
From: Chris McKinnon
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Tach?

Here is this weeks installment in wierd-problems-with-Chris's-truck-to-baffle-
people-on-the-Ford-truck-list.
This weeks problem is my tachometer. The darn thing doesn't work right. It
seems to start at about 3K and go up from there (most days.) Then again,
somedays it just staks stuck at 1K and just sits there. Also, sometimes when
it is at idle at a stoplight and I have my turnsignal on the tach bounces by
about 500RPM. Any ideas?
Chris
'84 F150
351W on propane
NP 435
NP 208
281K Km

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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:43:47 -0600
From: "Stephen W.Hansen"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Thoughts on Building a 460

As I could probably never afford to give my dad a new truck; a future plan
of mine is to give him a rebuilt engine. He uses his truck for occasional
towing a 28 foot fifth wheel, and running around town. I would like to get
another 460 block and start the rebuild a couple years ahead of time before
the engine is "Needed"
Now, I'm not a "radical" rebuilder but I do like to bump up the spec's a bit
when doing the job. Normally the rebuilds are needed to get back onto the
road and money is short so the most I usually do is put a RV cam in it.
On this engine I plan to get sealed rings, 3 angle valve job, port and
polish the heads, Balance and (possibly) blueprint. Other possibility's are
bumping up the compression with domed pistons(how much is reasonable); an RV
cam (worried about it effecting the Fuel Injection computer) and roller
rockers.
As one of the most important things is reliability, it can't be too radical,
but I know some of these things help squeeze out performance and MPG if done
right.
What are some of your opinions on building a "dream engine" if you had the
time and money, and weren't trying to show off at the main street stop
light, (but still wanted a little "pep")
Stephen Hansen
92 F250
50 F-1

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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:01:23 -0500
From: "Theodore D.Mills"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE

For what it's worth....

First I'm assuming that you have an actual D / | \ C type ammeter, not the
voltage gauge that my 91 F-250 has.
Easiest way to check if you're not sure is if you have a REAL ammeter, you
won't have a battery idiot light. If you have a battery light, it's not
likely a real ammeter.

On my 85 Ranger, which has the real thing, it never moved.
What I found was oxidation on the flex-board on the back of the instrument
cluster.

To fix this, remove the cluster, then polish the area where the harness
connectors plug into the cluster.
Use a piece of the green scotchbrite stuff. DO NOT use sandpaper, or steel
wool!! I got my scotchbrite at a hardware store, you could probably find it
or similar stuff at the supermarket or a dollar store in the kitchen
gadgets area.

It's very inportant to not use anything real abrasive as the copper coating
on the plastic flexible circuit board can be damaged easily. Steel wool is
a no-no for obvious reasons -- electronics don't like stray metal where
it's not supposed to be.

I would not use any kind of solvent cleaner either, as I have seen those
types of cleaner reduce some plastics to goo.

The ammeter works with low voltage/current in this application and a little
oxidation introduces enought resistance into the circuit to mess upthe
operation of the guage.

My Ranger, when it is started goes up into the Charge area for a minute or
so then slowly fall back to the center.




At 19:20 11/28/1999 EST, you wrote:
>DOES ANYONE'S AMP GAUGE WORK. MINE HARDY MOVES WHEN I START THE TRUCK. JUST
>ABOUT EVERYONE'S I LOOKED AT DOESN'T WORK EITHER
>
>CHRIS
>87 F-150
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>
>
Thank You for riding SEPTA

Theodore D. Mills
Transportation Manager
Norristown High Speed Line Route Manager

(215)580-3981
tmills p3.net
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:05:44 -0800
From: Bob Kennedy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - An 84 F-350 w/ a crummy motor

I'd run a compression test to see how the rings are holding up. I'd pull the cap
off the distributor and turn the crank by hand and see how much play is in the
timing chain.
Third might be a leak down test on each cylinder.

130K, that 351W, if not abused, should be getting it's second wind about now.

Bob


Adam wrote:

> I have a 84 F-350 w/ a 351W. It has 129,400 miles on it and the oil pressure
> is doing some weird things now. When its cold and idling, the pressure is
> between the r and m on the guage ( L \ \ NORMAL/ / H )as it warms up,
> idle pressure goes down to where the needle is on the bottom edge below the
> N. In stop and go driving at low speed, it goes up to the R, but holding 65
> on the interstate sends it back below the N. It has a 4-speed w/ granny
> gears, 4x4 so it runs 2800 rpm at 65mph. If i come to a complete stop after
> going on the interstate, the pressure will fall even more. I went to 20W50
> after 10w30had it dropping below the normal range when I got it (back in
> february). This is really annoying becaus it is so erratic, every time I go
> out in it I wonder if I'll get back. The 20W50 has made it REALLY hard to
> start when cold, barely will turn over, then dies, etc.. Also it has
> started backfiring recently, if it's cold and i bring it up to 2500 or more
> RPM on the road and then let off the gas It'll backfire something awful, so
> bad it cracked the right side manifold. The ignition timing is perfect, and
> the carb seems OK.
> Also,this thing has a strong vibration at 35-50mph, in both 3rd and 4th.
> One final problem- this stupid thing never will warm up, the temp guage has
> entered the normal zone only once, when I was going about 90 in July, it
> reached the N. The heater works good, but takes forever to start working.
> Should I just rebuild this old motor, or do you think ti might have a few
> more miles left in it. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Adam Beddingfield A_beddingfield hotmail.com
>
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 21:11:36 -0600
From: "Webdoc"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - An 84 F-350 w/ a crummy motor

Adam,
Got an 84 F150 with a 351W. Mine started doing the same thing with the oil
pressure at about 150K. Your main bearings are worn. I tried everything
you did and it didn't help. Since the top end is still in relatively good
condition, I opted to drop the oil pan and change the darn things. While I
was at it, I replaced the connecting rod bearings and replaced the stock oil
pump with a high volume one. Did the trick. If you plan on doing this,
keep in mind that unless you pull the engine it's going to take you a couple
of weekends to do it right. And getting the oil seals on the pan to stay in
place while you're putting it all back together is a b**ch!

Check the smog pump (air injection system) on the backfire problem, sounds
like it may be leaking. Mine "fell off" a few years ago, and it severely
backfired until I got everything sealed.

Have you checked your thermostat? That engine should have a 180 deg stat.
Could even be the cause of the backfire (TVS's not opening).

Hope this gives you a place to start. Believe me, the 351W is NOT a crummy
motor!

Trav

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Adam
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 8:03 PM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - An 84 F-350 w/ a crummy motor


I have a 84 F-350 w/ a 351W. It has 129,400 miles on it and the oil pressure
is doing some weird things now. When its cold and idling, the pressure is
between the r and m on the guage ( L \ \ NORMAL/ / H )as it warms up,
idle pressure goes down to where the needle is on the bottom edge below the
N. In stop and go driving at low speed, it goes up to the R, but holding 65
on the interstate sends it back below the N. It has a 4-speed w/ granny
gears, 4x4 so it runs 2800 rpm at 65mph. If i come to a complete stop after
going on the interstate, the pressure will fall even more. I went to 20W50
after 10w30had it dropping below the normal range when I got it (back in
february). This is really annoying becaus it is so erratic, every time I go
out in it I wonder if I'll get back. The 20W50 has made it REALLY hard to
start when cold, barely will turn over, then dies, etc.. Also it has
started backfiring recently, if it's cold and i bring it up to 2500 or more
RPM on the road and then let off the gas It'll backfire something awful, so
bad it cracked the right side manifold. The ignition timing is perfect, and
the carb seems OK.
Also,this thing has a strong vibration at 35-50mph, in both 3rd and 4th.
One final problem- this stupid thing never will warm up, the temp guage has
entered the normal zone only once, when I was going about 90 in July, it
reached the N. The heater works good, but takes forever to start working.
Should I just rebuild this old motor, or do you think ti might have a few
more miles left in it. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Adam Beddingfield A_beddingfield hotmail.com

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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:47:19 -0500
From: "slik"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE

My '82 Amp gauge works great. Just swapped out my 60 amp alt for a 100 amp
and the gauge jumped to the 3/4 mark or close depending on what electrical
equip I have on.

Slik

> DOES ANYONE'S AMP GAUGE WORK. MINE HARDY MOVES WHEN I START THE TRUCK.
JUST
> ABOUT EVERYONE'S I LOOKED AT DOESN'T WORK EITHER
>


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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:09:30 -0600
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE

At 22:47 28/11/99 -0500, you wrote:
>My '82 Amp gauge works great. Just swapped out my 60 amp alt for a 100 amp
>and the gauge jumped to the 3/4 mark or close depending on what electrical
>equip I have on.

If this is true, then I think your truck is wired wrong. The guage is only
supposed to indicate amps going INTO or OUT OF the battery. It is not
supposed to show total current being used by all devices.

Headlights on with engine off will show where needle goes for about 10 amp
discharge. A 10 amp charge would be about this same distance to the other
side of center. The 100 amp alternator is good to put a lot of power out
for accessories, but you do not want to put that much into a battery.

Normal operation after starting your engine is for guage to show slight
charge. After about 5 minutes of normal driving it should be back to center.

>
>Slik
>
>> DOES ANYONE'S AMP GAUGE WORK. MINE HARDY MOVES WHEN I START THE TRUCK.
>JUST
>> ABOUT EVERYONE'S I LOOKED AT DOESN'T WORK EITHER
>>

Jim Cannon
Houston, TX "A Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton and a helluva' engineer!"
'80 Ford F-150 300 I-6 2WD '63 Buick Riviera 401 V-8
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:10:33 PST
From: "ken haley"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - AMP GAUGE

All 3 of mine work fine. If the truck fires right up, they don't move much.
The most they will show is half way, though.

Ken

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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:17:54 PST
From: "ken haley"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - An 84 F-350 w/ a crummy motor

When I got my current daily driver, it had a strong vibration under
deceleration only. Turned out to be bad u-joints in the rear shaft.

Ken

______________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 04:54:30 -0500
From: "Doug ( DJ Fire )"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Seat

I have a '93 F150 SC and I have the
>jump seats, ...
>
>Chris Worley
>1993 F-150 SC 351
>Waxahachie, TX


Hey Chris... I might be interested in the Jump Seats. Firefitr....

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