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Subject: 80-96-list-digest V3 #330
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80-96-list-digest Tuesday, November 23 1999 Volume 03 : Number 330



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - re: HeadGasket?
FTE 80-96 - Re: Clunking Noise
Re: FTE 80-96 - re: HeadGasket?
FTE 80-96 - Re: Headers
Re: FTE 80-96 - ZF and M5OD gearing...
Re: FTE 80-96 - Clunking Noise
Re: FTE 80-96 - re: HeadGasket?
Re: FTE 80-96 - re: HeadGasket?
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Headers
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: wrist pin and piston wall oiling
Re: FTE 80-96 - New To List / Questions
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Headers
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Headers
Re: FTE 80-96 - Clunking Noise
RE: FTE 80-96 - How much is too much mileage...
RE: FTE 80-96 - Water Pump
Re: FTE 80-96 - ZF and M5OD gearing...
Re: FTE 80-96 - Clunking Noise

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:11:42 -0500
From: Rich
Subject: FTE 80-96 - re: HeadGasket?

Ok, I am kind of getting worried here. I have had my 96 f105 for
about 2 months now, and when I look at the exhaust pipe, the inside is
CLEAN, no soot no black ...nothing. But I see some greeninsh
condensation come out of the pipe for about 5 minutes when first
started. Oil is fine, coolant is fine. Maybe I am just being a little
overcautius? It has the 302, and it has 78k on it. Plugs are ok, no
stumbling or anything. Does anybody else have a 302, and have a clean
pipe like I do? maybe they put a new exhaust on before i bought it?
Any help that can ease my mind would be great!
Rich
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:57:55 EST
From: Dom379 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Clunking Noise

I have an '81 F-150 and have the same problem. I have checked it
extensively changing many bushing and looking for loose nuts and bolts, but
haven't been able to fix it. I took it to an alignment shop for the alignment
and asked the guy there. He thought it is probably play in the radious arm
bushings. Mine has been making hte noise for about 4 years and haven't had
any more problems. I wouldn't really worry about it.

Dominic

'81 F-150
'89 351
4 speed
'89 interior
'85 running gear
8"lift
33" tires
started life as a 2wd
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:45:41 -0500
From: "Matt Fitzsimmons"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - re: HeadGasket?

This is normal. I'm not sure what that green stuff is, but it has something
to do with the coating on the inside of the exhaust system reacting to
moisture in the exhaust. My '95 did the same thing until I installed a new
exhaust system.


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Rich
To:
Sent: Monday, November 22, 1999 1:11 PM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - re: HeadGasket?


> Ok, I am kind of getting worried here. I have had my 96 f105 for
> about 2 months now, and when I look at the exhaust pipe, the inside is
> CLEAN, no soot no black ...nothing. But I see some greeninsh
> condensation come out of the pipe for about 5 minutes when first
> started. Oil is fine, coolant is fine. Maybe I am just being a little
> overcautius? It has the 302, and it has 78k on it. Plugs are ok, no
> stumbling or anything. Does anybody else have a 302, and have a clean
> pipe like I do? maybe they put a new exhaust on before i bought it?
> Any help that can ease my mind would be great!
> Rich
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:27:26 PST
From: "Michael Surette"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Headers

Hello,

I just had my exhaust manifolds replaced with headers. Although there
weren't supposed to be any modifications needed for these headers, it turns
out there was. The shop that put them on for me had to heat and bend the
y-member until the headers fit properly.

The problem is that low end acceleration has gone away, and the throttle has
much more resistance than before the headers were installed. At speed, it
seems to be coasting along and the engine feels like it is barely working
while moving the truck along at 55 mph. That part is great, but what could
be the problem with the acceleration? I have a 96' F150 with the 302. Any
input is appreciated before I have to take it to the dealership to look at.

Bud S.

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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:31:56 -0700
From: Fred Moreno
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - ZF and M5OD gearing...

Otay, I just finished reading about 100 emails that have accumulated since
I've been absent from work since last Wednesday - vacation time to earn more
money if you know what I mean...

I will look into the Ford Bible for 1995 and see if the ZF and the Mazda
are both a one piece tranny.
But I can tell you the Mazda has an internal clutch slave cylinder such
that the tranny has to be slid back in order to access it (Let me have 5
minutes with that designer !!!).
I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that the ZF has the external clutch slave
cylinder.

Can the ZF bolt up and replace the Mazda? I don't know, but that would be
nice if it did and would not too much trouble.

Yeah the compliance sticker is the easy way, I'll see if I can look what
that is suppose to be.

BTW, I've noticed several posting regarding reading codes where it is
mentioned a voltmeter is needed to extract the codes.
Yes and No. Everytime the needle swings on the meter and you count 1, the
check engine light also flashes. So why bother with a meter? I've used the
meter on several occasions and IMHO just sitting in the driver's seat
counting the light flash on the dash is much simpler. Try it. Yeah I know
the service manual says to use an analog meter, but still....
I have noticed that wether you use the meter or just the light on the dash
you will need to perform this routine several times to make sure your count
is correct and consistant. Don't give up, if I can make State Fleet
mechanics understand how to read the codes this way, it can't be Quantum
Physics.
I am not putting down the intellect capabilities of State Fleet mechanics,
but I have noticed that these guys are always understaffed, under equipped,
with little or no reference material. My digital multimeter and scanner is
often well used when we do a class for them. Its amazing how resourceful
some of these guys (and gals) have been.

Anybody need a quick and dirty cheat sheet on how to pull the codes forward
me your fax number. This method will NOT work with the OBD II systems found
in the F-150 model year 1996. The diagnostic connector is no longer under
the dash for the OBD II systems and is located under the dash. To pull the
codes you need a scanner that is OBD II compatible.

For all of you who gave me suggestions dealing with Spam, thanks, I
honestly expected recipes from some of you, and you know who you are...
But I know the best solution, and that is to be mature and just delete it.
It may not be as much fun, but my knowledge of this sort of stuff does not
give me the necessary confidence to do battle (yet). But boy oh boy, I like
some of those suggestions...

Drive on,

Phred
161K miles over this weekend, and still going strong.
Big Bend National Park here we come (this Christmas break - oh no dear, we
have to lock the hubs to get around those mean rocks...).

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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 21:39:14 EST
From: SlamedF150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Clunking Noise

my 87 has the same problem, i think it is the brake pads grabbing and then
slamming into the holder. but IM not sure

Chris
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 18:44:42 -0800
From: "Kevin Crandall"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - re: HeadGasket?

Rich i have a 94 F150 4.9 with 68,000 on it and my pipe is also clean. I
don't have any greenish condensation though. I don't have any idea what the
greenish stuff is. If you ever figure it out post it and let us know.

Kevin
94 F150

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich"
To:
Sent: Monday, November 22, 1999 10:11 AM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - re: HeadGasket?


> Ok, I am kind of getting worried here. I have had my 96 f105 for
> about 2 months now, and when I look at the exhaust pipe, the inside is
> CLEAN, no soot no black ...nothing. But I see some greeninsh
> condensation come out of the pipe for about 5 minutes when first
> started. Oil is fine, coolant is fine. Maybe I am just being a little
> overcautius? It has the 302, and it has 78k on it. Plugs are ok, no
> stumbling or anything. Does anybody else have a 302, and have a clean
> pipe like I do? maybe they put a new exhaust on before i bought it?
> Any help that can ease my mind would be great!
> Rich
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 21:45:23 -0600
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - re: HeadGasket?

>Ok, I am kind of getting worried here. I have had my 96 f105 for
>about 2 months now, and when I look at the exhaust pipe, the inside is
>CLEAN, no soot no black ...nothing. But I see some greeninsh
>condensation come out of the pipe for about 5 minutes when first
>started. Oil is fine, coolant is fine. Maybe I am just being a little
>overcautius? It has the 302, and it has 78k on it. Plugs are ok, no
>stumbling or anything. Does anybody else have a 302, and have a clean
>pipe like I do? maybe they put a new exhaust on before i bought it?
>Any help that can ease my mind would be great!
>Rich

You need to get this problem checked out right away. The ONLY place green
can come from is antifreeze. Unless it is a cracked head, it must be a head
gasket.

A friend of mine's just did the same green liquid from the exhaust thing.
His has a 300, but he pulled the head and found the gasket leaking into an
exhaust port. Luckily it did not get into the crankcase and ruin all the
bearings.

Antifreeze in oil will ruin bearings in no time as it takes away the
lubrication. Drain your oil and make sure there is no antifreeze sitting on
the bottom of the pan.


Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."


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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 21:48:41 -0600
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Headers

>Hello,
>
>I just had my exhaust manifolds replaced with headers. Although there
>weren't supposed to be any modifications needed for these headers, it turns
>out there was. The shop that put them on for me had to heat and bend the
>y-member until the headers fit properly.
>
>The problem is that low end acceleration has gone away, and the throttle has
>much more resistance than before the headers were installed. At speed, it
>seems to be coasting along and the engine feels like it is barely working
>while moving the truck along at 55 mph. That part is great, but what could
>be the problem with the acceleration? I have a 96' F150 with the 302. Any
>input is appreciated before I have to take it to the dealership to look at.
>

I put the JBA headers on my 88 w/302 and I love them. No torque problems
and good power. If it had it its way, the truck would love to run at 75 mph
though.


Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:04:24 PST
From: "ken haley"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: wrist pin and piston wall oiling

>
>
> > There are oil passages from the main bearing journals to the main
>bearings,
> > through the crank to the rod bearings through the rods to the wrist
>pins.
> >
> > The cylinder walls are oiled by splash.
> >
> > Ken
>Not really. The rods are solid. There is often a spray hole in the "big
>end" of the rod that directs oil to the underside of the piston, otherwise
>the piston, cylinder walls and wrist pin are all oiled by oil splashed up
>or
>flung off the spinning crank.
>
>Matt

Right you are, Matt. I checked the rods that came from both my 302s and the
stcokers are as you saw. Both my 302s now have CSC steel cranks and rods
picked up cheap from a racey car spare parts rack. The CSC rods do have an
oil passage. I doubt it makes any difference on a street engine, though. It
is hard to break a 302 bottom end no matter what you do.

Ken

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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:12:03 PST
From: "ken haley"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - New To List / Questions

>Greetings!
>
>I've been subscribed to the list for a few days, and should probably
>introduce myself.
>
>My name is Jim Velasquez, and as I write this I'm 1/2 way through driving
>my 1st Ford Truck home to Colorado after buying it from a friend in MI. Up
>until now I've only owned a couple of Fords, both Mustangs.
>
>Some quick questions:
>
>Can anyone on the list help decode this VIN: 2FDLF47G8LCA64012 ?
>
>The Truck is a big Dually, which I presume was manufactured as a
>Cab+Chassis
>because up until I bought it there was a huge toolbox on the back. (Toolbox
>was removed prior to sale to go on a new truck) The Badges on the fenders
>were removed, so I have no idea exactly what model this Truck is.
>
>Anyone have a good, affordable source of Beds and other sheetmetal to
>recommend? Someplace in or near Colorado would be a plus.
>
>What is the best source for a good shop manual for this truck?
>
>Thanks in advance, and hello once again to the list!
>
>-JAV


Dually beds with no major damage, go for $1000 around here. This usually
includes fenders. Lights and tailgate will set you back another $250, at
least. Neighbors who thought they got really good deals ended up building
flatbeds and stakes for a heck of a lot less. A local wrecker service bought
4 program lease returns) dually crewcabs and sold the perfect beds for $2500
each, complete. Ouch.

Ken

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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:21:09 PST
From: "ken haley"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Headers

>Hello,
>
>I just had my exhaust manifolds replaced with headers. Although there
>weren't supposed to be any modifications needed for these headers, it turns
>out there was. The shop that put them on for me had to heat and bend the
>y-member until the headers fit properly.

Are you calling the crossover pipe a y-member?

>
>The problem is that low end acceleration has gone away, and the throttle
>has
>much more resistance than before the headers were installed.

The go pedal is harder to push down? Headers shouldn't cause a stiffer
pedal.

At
>speed, it
>seems to be coasting along and the engine feels like it is barely working
>while moving the truck along at 55 mph. That part is great, but what could
>be the problem with the acceleration? I have a 96' F150 with the 302. Any
>input is appreciated before I have to take it to the dealership to look at.

Sounds like short, fat primaries. Good for high rpm, bad for low.
Long, skinny primaries are better for low rpm.

Ken

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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:30:35 PST
From: "ken haley"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Headers

By the way, both of my Broncos with 302s are running factory Mustang GT
headers, no torque problems, but the manual tranny one had to have a
hydraulic cjutch linage adapted because the stock linkage sat right between
the studs on the header. The raceycar fella who sold me the headers has a
set of Hookers, and has the same problem on his Mustang--no torque low, but
it winds up really well.

Ken

>>Hello,
>>
>>I just had my exhaust manifolds replaced with headers. Although there
>>weren't supposed to be any modifications needed for these headers, it
>>turns
>>out there was. The shop that put them on for me had to heat and bend the
>>y-member until the headers fit properly.
>
>Are you calling the crossover pipe a y-member?
>
>>
>>The problem is that low end acceleration has gone away, and the throttle
>>has
>>much more resistance than before the headers were installed.
>
>The go pedal is harder to push down? Headers shouldn't cause a stiffer
>pedal.
>
>At
>>speed, it
>>seems to be coasting along and the engine feels like it is barely working
>>while moving the truck along at 55 mph. That part is great, but what
>>could
>>be the problem with the acceleration? I have a 96' F150 with the 302.
>>Any
>>input is appreciated before I have to take it to the dealership to look
>>at.
>
>Sounds like short, fat primaries. Good for high rpm, bad for low.
>Long, skinny primaries are better for low rpm.
>
>Ken
>
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:27:02 -0600
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Clunking Noise

At 19:42 21/11/99 PST, you wrote:
>Greetings,
> My '93 F-150 SC 351 is making a clunking noise everytime I hit the brakes,
>seems to be coming from the front, I haven't had time to check it very good.
> Was wondering if anyone has an idea what I should check when I do jack it
>up to take a look.

I am pretty sure it is the radius arm bushings. They take all the force
every time you brake. I don't know how a shop tell if they are worn or not.
The one on the side near the cat converter frequently goes bad because of
the heat there.

I saw where others have basically said "don't worry about it". I'm not so
sure I agree.


Jim Cannon
Houston, TX "A Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton and a helluva' engineer!"
'80 Ford F-150 300 I-6 2WD '63 Buick Riviera 401 V-8
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:33:24 -0600
From: "Harris, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - How much is too much mileage...

grab it or I will.....

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ritchie Pat [mailto:patritchie netscape.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 1999 12:53 PM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - How much is too much mileage...


Dear Ford fans,

A few years ago I fell in love with the 1995 Ford F-150. Wouldn't
even begin
to call myself a truck expert or even know more than the very basics about
vehicles. Can't say why but that model truck is awesome! Anywho, I've been
searching for a 95 F-150 2X4, w/extended cab, two tone, CD, power, trimmed
out
nicely, shell on the back and bedliner.

Until this last weekend, everything I found was too much to afford
considering the family needs vs. my play toys. Last weekend I found
something
VERY close to what I want and the price is right -- I think! And that is my
reason for writing... I'm interested in your opinions about this particular
vehicle and some of the other factors you may have experienced.

Here's the truck:
1994 F-150, 2X4, extended cab
302 motor, Strong, no visible leaks, burns no oil
Automatic transmission
Factory Cassette
Cruise
All power inside
Cloth interior
Black/Silver paint scheme
Oversized tires on alloy rims (about 20k on them)
Shell and bedliner
Dual Fuel tanks
Tinted glass
$10,000

Now here's the issues...
It's got 122,000 total miles - owner lives 30 highway miles from where we
work
so, needless to say, after 4 years of daily comuting that racks up the
miles.
He bought it from the original owner who had it two years and put 60K
highway
miles on it (so he claimed). This gentleman has maintained the vehicle
religiously. 3k mile oil changes, 6k mile tire rotations and alignments,
etc.
There is no visible rust or signs of ever having body work done, the
interior
is well kept and overall the vehicle is in outstanding shape. He DID have
the
transmission rebuilt two years ago after the overdrive light went out (or
came
on, whichever is not good) and had the "clock gear" in the steering column
replaced for some other problem. No problems since. My biggest concern is
by
far the mileage, but even NADA book value is 11K+. He's had a few bites,
but
all prospective buyers turned away due to the high mileage.

Bottom line, is this just a great deal that comes once in a while or should
I
steer clear because of trends or problems with this truck???

I apologize for the long post, but I want to give you a clear picture of the
vehicle and the facts I know about it. I would very much appreciate any
comments you have about this situation. Of course, time is of the essence
since it is on the open market.

Thank you very much,
Pat Ritchie

Signed,
Pat

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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:40:00 -0600
From: "Harris, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Water Pump

Sorry for the delayed response.

It is an easy job, just an involved one. Set a Sat. or Sun aside for this.
Start with the fan and shroud removal and work your way back. Don't remove
the belts till the fan is off to help removing it's bolts. This provides
more accessability to the pump. Takes some time to work your way to the
pump but just keep the bolts in order because there ends up being alot of
them. Just do the reverse the order to replace everything.

Like previously mentioned, replace all coolant, belts and hoses and degrease
the area when it is exposed while you are in there.

- -----Original Message-----
From: 2insane excite.com [mailto:2insane excite.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 1999 12:17 PM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Water Pump


my 89 f-150 302's water pump is leaking. Going to buy a new one but thought
i'd ask if anyone has any opinion of a good replacement or what i should
get. also how much of a job is this? would it be easier to get someone to do
it or should I attempt it myself? knowledge level for me? basicaly a oil
changer or a little higher. I got time and the energy to learn how though.
Thanks for any information.

DK




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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 23:14:18 -0600
From: "Rex Bennett"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - ZF and M5OD gearing...

I checked the two 93 F-350's at work today, one with a 351 and one with the
460 and they both have ZF transmissions with the bell housing made onto the
transmition and internal concentric slave cylinder (Trans code W ) ,
acording to my Haynes manual the ZF comes in two configurations, (light
duty) with the internal slave cylinder and ( heavy duty) with the external
slave cylinder. These transmissions are very stuby with a PTO cover on both
sides.

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Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 06:03:43 -0500
From: "Michael McCarthy"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Clunking Noise

I had the same clunking noise on my '85 F150 and I discovered that the guy
who did the brake job (me) left out one of the little tension springs for....


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