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Subject: 80-96-list-digest V3 #297
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80-96-list-digest Saturday, October 23 1999 Volume 03 : Number 297



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: FTE 80-96 - confused about 302
Re: FTE 80-96 - Keep looking
Re: FTE 80-96 - RE: F-250
Re: FTE 80-96 - Anyone with similar problems -Reply
RE: FTE 80-96 - Key Problem
Re: FTE 80-96 - 93, 460 F-350 vs 94 F-250 turb diesel
FTE 80-96 - uneven acceleration
FTE 80-96 - uneven acceleration -Reply
RE: FTE 80-96 - 93, 460 F-350 vs 94 F-250 turb diesel
Re: FTE 80-96 - 93, 460 F-350 vs 94 F-250 turb diesel
Re: FTE 80-96 - RE: F-250
FTE 80-96 - Engine Thermostats
FTE 80-96 - 93-95 Lightning Gauge Cluster
Re: FTE 80-96 - Motor oil and additives
FTE 80-96 - RE: 460 vs turbodiesel
Re: FTE 80-96 - Motor oil and additives
RE: FTE 80-96 - 93, 460 F-350 vs 94 F-250 turb diesel
Re: FTE 80-96 - 93, 460 F-350 vs 94 F-250 turb diesel
FTE 80-96 - Where is the ACT sensor on a 1994 302 F-150?
RE: FTE 80-96 - Key Problem
Re: FTE 80-96 - uneven acceleration
FTE 80-96 - RE: ROTFLMAO about......

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:24 -0500
From: Jason D Odor
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - confused about 302

Thanks for all of the help, I took it to the shop last night before I $50
myself to death. I'm hopping that is all it is.




mponsfor uvic.ca on 10/21/99 05:24:01 PM
Please respond to 80-96-list ford-trucks.com JCI
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com JCI
cc: (bcc: Jason D Odor/TAYMI/ASG/Johnson_Controls)
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - confused about 302

>I have a problem, I have a 93 F150, 302 and yesterday on the way home from
>work
>it started running really bad. Prior to this it was running good. Well it
>idles OK but as soon as I put it in gear in start to idle really low and
>shack
>really bad. When I give it gas, there is not much power, and with more
>gas it
>starts to sound like a Diesel. It doesn't sound like a rod knock or anything
>mechanical (I don't think). To top it all off it has a bad "exhaust" smell.
>I'm really confused, I changed the plug wires(thinking that all 8 might
>not be
>firing) then I changed the O2 sensor(thinking maybe something with the
>exhaust
>smell). I also noticed that I had some antifreeze leaking from the radiator
>area, not much but some. Am I headed up the right track with the sensors,
>like
>maybe a MAP sensor or something, or is it something a lot worse than that.
>I'm
>the type of guy that loves to improve an already good running motor or fix
>something that I know is broken, but when it comes to trouble shooting I am
>kinda lost. Any and all help would be great, I have learned so much already
>on this list, I am looking forward to learning more.
>
>Thanks,
>Jason
>
The symptoms your describing are identical to the ones I experienced when
the MAP sensor went on my 88F150-302

Mark


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:57:18 -0400
From: James Oxley
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Keep looking

J.S.H. wrote:
>
> >This seems really cheap to me. I didn't want TTB, but it did not
> >wander nearly as much as my friends 91, possibly because it has stock >tires and his has 33's. I really did not want ext cab either and it's >bright red,which I hate,
>
> If you don't like the TTB,Super Cab or the color I would keep looking.
>

I hear ya, but I need a heavy duty tow vehicle and S-10 blazers lose
their value by the second. I'm also pretty sure I could sell it easily
with what I'm paying and the fact I could not find another truck like it
(at all) within 1000 miles.

OX
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:51:23 -0400
From: James Oxley
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - RE: F-250

Dave Harmier wrote:
>
> Man, my red F-150 is a royal PITA to keep looking decent... red takes sun
> and kills wax.

Gee, I feel so much better now, NOT!!! :-)

> Though except for 4x4, which I have NO need of, that truck sounds like what
> I want.

You can't have it, well, unless I have to wax it twice a week ;-)

> I only get 12.5 - 13.5 anyway, and 460 power... chills all up and down my
> spine!!!

So your saying I'm going to get 8??

OX
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:37:20 -0400
From: Steven Boswell
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Anyone with similar problems -Reply

EGR system was replaced last year by Ford in order to pass emission test. This
was not a cheap repair either due to number of labor hours removing old cracked
tubing from cylinder head, which is about 2 inches from firewall on drivers
side.
Knocking occurs any time it wants. I can be cruising on a flat stretch of
highway at 2700rpm and here the motor begin to knock. Believe me I have tried to
narrow this down to specific conditions. The only thing I know for certain is
that it gets much worse in the winter monthes.


>>> James Oxley 10/21/99 05:07pm >>>
Steven Boswell wrote:
>
> Wondering if anyone in subscriber list has a F250 with 7.5L gas motor
> experiencing problems with spark knock. Especially during the winter monthes.
>

I just bought a 95, which I hope to pick up Mon. I hope I don't have to
run 93 in this thing. Milage is going to kill me enough. I assume your
EGR (do they even have EGR??) is working correctly? When does the knock
occur.

OX
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:19:28 +0200
From: "David Anderson (EUS)"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Key Problem

I presume your talking about replacing the electrical switch down on the steering column and not the key lock. To do this: Disconnect the battery. Take off lower dash trim. Drop the steering column. If automatic, support the column so it does not hang by the Park/Neutral/Drive/etc indicator cable. The switch is midway down the column on the top and held on w/ 2 10mm or so nuts. The new switch comes with a keeper pin holding it in position. Follow the directions about what position the keylock should be in. Install the switch. Pull the keeper pin. Try the switch before bolting the column back up. May need some up/down adjustment. Note that after reconnecting the battery, engine will idle poorly until the computer relearns. About a $10 part.

I learned about this the hard way after a my switch caught fire. This is a recall item on several year models.
Good Luck,
David Anderson

>>>>Hey all!
I just had a problem with my 89 F-150 ignition switch.
Something broke on the inside and now it doesn't make the right contacts to
start but I can get the power to go. So this morning I got out and crossed
the Solenoid and up she started!
I'll call around and find a dealer with the part today, but the question
is...
How do you replace this?
Anyone done this?
BTW: a couple of years ago I had them do a recall fix of the spring in the
switch.


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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:29:44 EDT
From: Kbeverwein aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 93, 460 F-350 vs 94 F-250 turb diesel

I have the 99 F250 crewcab with the powerstroke. It only takes 30 seconds to start and no cool down time.
Who told you that you need a 3-4 minute cool down. I
have had my truck 16 months with no problems. Knock
on wood. I work about 30 minutes or so from the house,
depending on traffic. Have made a couple of trips from
CA to Tx. My last trip a towed a 83 Ford Maxi-van back.
Got 16.2 mpg at 65 mph with the cruise on even in the
mountains. I now am getting 17 mpg. Sure it is hard parking at the store or mall. My 97 F250 with 5.4 got 14-16 highway at 65. This is my 2 cents worth.
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:19:14 -0700
From: "Dennis"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - uneven acceleration

My 89 f250 with 351W has a terrible idle, and accelerates unevenly when I
get on it. Disconnected the egr and plugged the hole, but made no
difference. I just replaced the fuel pressure regulator, also to no help.
66,000 miles and all new tune up parts. Also the mileage is bad, about
11mpg. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:10:41 -0400
From: Steven Boswell
Subject: FTE 80-96 - uneven acceleration -Reply

Ford has a kit to fix problems with the IAC sludging up causing erratic idle
problems. It is basically a spacer kit that mounts under the IAC. I would check
with them to show you the service buletin.

>>> "Dennis" 10/22/99 11:19am >>>
My 89 f250 with 351W has a terrible idle, and accelerates unevenly when I
get on it. Disconnected the egr and plugged the hole, but made no
difference. I just replaced the fuel pressure regulator, also to no help.
66,000 miles and all new tune up parts. Also the mileage is bad, about
11mpg. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:07:41 -0400
From: Greg Carter
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - 93, 460 F-350 vs 94 F-250 turb diesel

The cool down is for a turbo equipped car/truck, regardless of being diesel.
Turbos are cooled by the engine oil, so if you just shut it down after a
hard run then the bearings will eventually go.

I am guessing that the yours isn't turbo'd, if it is you way want to
consider letting the engine idle a minute or two before shutting it down to
ensure long turbo life.
Bye.

Greg Carter
Entrust Technologies - http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.entrust.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com/articles/buildup/dana60.html


- -----Original Message-----
From: Kbeverwein aol.com [mailto:Kbeverwein aol.com]
Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 10:30 AM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 93, 460 F-350 vs 94 F-250 turb diesel


I have the 99 F250 crewcab with the powerstroke. It only takes 30 seconds
to start and no cool down time.
Who told you that you need a 3-4 minute cool down. I
have had my truck 16 months with no problems. Knock
on wood.
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:42:07 -0700
From: johny
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 93, 460 F-350 vs 94 F-250 turb diesel

On the 99's it's quite possible to have the turbo down to 300F (my personal
cutoff point) in zero time, when the truck is unloaded, and you've been
coasting around the parking lot looking for a place to park.

But usually 30 seconds is a good bet.

Staying off the fuel, goes a long way in keeping the EGT's down.

In the event you are towing (in my case at just over GVWR), then it
can still take a minute or 2 to cool down in the above cruise around
description above.

After a long hard climb, the residual heat build up from the turbo housing
plus everything else, can translate to near 8-10 minutes of cool down.
Unloaded, the same situation, still requires 2-3 minutes.

I was very enlightened after I got my EGT hooked up.
(I have my temp probe after turbo, where-as a lot of the guys on
www.ford -diesel. com, are putting it pre-turbo, where it's no-doubt
a much more accurate reading.)


- -john


Greg Carter wrote:

> The cool down is for a turbo equipped car/truck, regardless of being diesel.
> Turbos are cooled by the engine oil, so if you just shut it down after a
> hard run then the bearings will eventually go.
>
> I am guessing that the yours isn't turbo'd, if it is you way want to
> consider letting the engine idle a minute or two before shutting it down to
> ensure long turbo life.
> Bye.
>
> Greg Carter
> Entrust Technologies - http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.entrust.com
> http://www.ford-trucks.com/articles/buildup/dana60.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kbeverwein aol.com [mailto:Kbeverwein aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 10:30 AM
> To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 93, 460 F-350 vs 94 F-250 turb diesel
>
> I have the 99 F250 crewcab with the powerstroke. It only takes 30 seconds
> to start and no cool down time.
> Who told you that you need a 3-4 minute cool down. I
> have had my truck 16 months with no problems. Knock
> on wood.
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:04:37 -0400
From: "Theodore D.Mills"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - RE: F-250

>> I only get 12.5 - 13.5 anyway, and 460 power... chills all up and down my
>> spine!!!
>
> So your saying I'm going to get 8??

That would be about right...
Nobody ever said the chills were cheap ;)



>
> OX
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>
>
Thank You for riding SEPTA

Theodore D. Mills
Transportation Manager
Norristown High Speed Line Route Manager

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Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:39:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Mike Persell"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Engine Thermostats

On Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:47:58 EDT, FLR150 aol.com wrote:
>It seems lately I have a differing opinion to a quite a few posts. Again I
>disagree. While I do not know much about the I-6 motors, I can tell you that
>MOST of the V-8 Ford motors favor a cooler than stock Tstat. The stock Tstat
>runs at 195-210 depending on the model year, application, and motor size.
>Most of the Ford V-8's will run much better and cooler with the 180 degree
>Tstat. Although, any temp below this will keep the EEC computers in their
>start up "closed loop" modes.

In every test I ran while working in oil company test labs, we found that engines would
fail the Sequence tests if they ran less than the factory temp thermostats. Ford small
blocks in particular have such a fast flame speed in the chambers that when they run
less than optimum temp they stick the rings bad.

In the 240 inch inline six we completely killed an engine at the equivalent of 55,000
miles running a 180 deg thermostat. In the hotter climates a hotter thermostat can
help the thermodynamics of the cooling process IF the radiator is clean and the block is
relatively free of contamination in the water jackets.

In my own 85 302, a factory recommended 195 deg thermostat means no condensation,
more power, smotther idle, less oil consumption and better fuel mileage.

In the words of the marketing suits, your mileage may vary.

Mike

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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:10:16 -0400
From: "Eric J. McTague"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 93-95 Lightning Gauge Cluster

Has anyone ever used the Lightning gauge cluster in a "non" Lightning
F-Series ?

Is it a direct swap w/no hidden problems/differences ?.

Although basically the same design, was'nt there differences in the
clusters for these 3 years ?. Slightly different gauge faces, indicator
needles, ????.

I thought i saw a picture of a Lightning cluster that had orange/amber
colored needles one time, but can't recall what model year it was.

I liked that look along w/the 120 speedo.

Anyone ?.

TIA.

Eric.
- --
"EJ" In Hamilton Township, New Jersey, suburb of Trenton
On digest where availabile, not regular mail
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.tripod.com/Olds_luvr/photoalbum/photoalbum/index.html
E-Mail: oldsluvr bellatlantic.net
The "Fleet"
1979 Pontiac "Olds organ donor" Trans Am. (FOR SALE !!!)
1984 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais.
1985 Oldsmobile Toronado.
1992 Lincoln Mark VII LSC.
1992 Ford F-250 Reg-Cab 4WD Pick-Up.
1994 Toyota Camry Sedan (my other halves ride).
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:16:26 -0500
From: "Ed Mount"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Motor oil and additives

>There were so many variables that I quit to a simpler business...I now am a
software
>engineer at IBM.

>I can pick a few variables, like longevity and synthetic vs conventional
and dribble out
>some info if the list moderator will allow it.

>Mike


Mike,
I always wondered about the Shell Rotella oil. As a kid I heard the
truckers always ask for it at my Dad's service station, but never new if it
was ok in car engines, or just for big trucks.

My dad was also big on what he call Pennsylvania oils, such as Quaker State
and Wolf's Head. He thought Wolf's Head was the best oil made in his time.
I guess Pennzoil is also of that category, but I'm not sure.

I recently read a technical (to me) article about Slick 50 and other
additives, the jist of which is that you are better off without it. It uses
Teflon, which apparently changes its characteristics at the temperatures
that internal combustion engines run. Additives such as this can also
upset the balance of the formulas used to make the original oil.

I have been using Pennzoil Supramax, a blend of synthetic and regular oils,
for no particular reason other than I wanted to get the extra benefits of
synthetic, it is made by a reputable company, and it less expensive than
other blends. Do you have any opinion on the various blends and synthetics?
Do you see any problems switching from a blend to a full synthetic, then
back again? I watch for bargains, since they are expensive, and Walmart
just had a sale on Mobil 1, so I stocked up. Some folks think you ought to
stick with one brand, but I question the need for that, since most are top
quality. But just to be on the safe side, I don't mix oils between changes,
and I don't use any additives.

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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:31:44 -0500
From: Paul M Radecki
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: 460 vs turbodiesel

>But with the gas I just get in and drive, when
> I get there I just shut down. The diesel was alittle more work than
that.
> The turbo needs alittle cool down idle time (3 - 4 mins) after an
extended
> highway drive ( 30 mins or so).
> I also live in Michigan and didn't want to
> deal with any special care in the winter.

>> That, the posible maint cost and the 3000$ premium to buy it turned me
>>off to a diesel. I'm much to impatient to wait around to start it.

FWIW, the Powerstroke E-SuperDuty minibus I sometimes drive at work
only takes a second or two to warm the glow plugs, and always starts
right up, even in the dead of winter (northern Indiana). Our GM diesels
need block heaters, and they still barely start in the winter. Nobody
ever warms the turbo up or cools it down, and the thing has lasted almost
400,000 miles to date under pretty heavy abuse. We've never had a gas
big block last longer than 200K (GM 454s) and they generally crap out
after 100K.
I'm strongly leaning toward the diesel for my next Ford (for the
extra $3000, though, you could supercharge your 460 or V-10 and have
change to spare... but you'd probably give up a *lot* of longevity).

lordjanusz juno.com
'94 F150 300ci
'73 F100 FE in pieces
___________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:00:31 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Motor oil and additives

>I always wondered about the Shell Rotella oil. As a kid I heard the
>truckers always ask for it at my Dad's service station, but never new if it
>was ok in car engines, or just for big trucks.
>
>My dad was also big on what he call Pennsylvania oils, such as Quaker State
>and Wolf's Head. He thought Wolf's Head was the best oil made in his time.
>I guess Pennzoil is also of that category, but I'm not sure.
>

I am sure the Rotella is plenty good for car engines. My preference is to
Pennsylvania oils as I grew up around and went to college in the Pa oil
fields, as well as have many friends with wells there.

Here is an interesting link to the company that now owns the refinery
Kendall motor oil used to be made in at Bradford, Pa.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.amref.com/Default.htm . Lots of oil tech stuff here too and they
will answer email questions.


Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."


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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:10:49 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - 93, 460 F-350 vs 94 F-250 turb diesel

>The cool down is for a turbo equipped car/truck, regardless of being diesel.
>Turbos are cooled by the engine oil, so if you just shut it down after a
>hard run then the bearings will eventually go.
>

I think it is a good practice to let any engine - gas or diesel - cool down
a few minutes after a hard pull or high speed run. Not good on valves to
shut them off real hot.


Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."


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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:07:50 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 93, 460 F-350 vs 94 F-250 turb diesel

> That, the posible maint cost and the 3000$ premium to buy it turned me
>off to a diesel. I'm much to impatient to wait around to start it.
>

I have had dozens of diesels over the years... in trucks and cars and
tractors. What maintenance cost would anyone be worried about? Change the
oil, change the filter, change the fuel filter every couple years. That's
about it- run it for two or three hundred thousand miles. There is nothing
else to worry about. Now and then someone has a glow plug go bad, but many
never have one go bad. That is not something to worry about. I can let a
diesel sit 5 years and start it with 10 year old fuel and it will run
perfectly. Diesels are very mainenance free and reliable.

Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."


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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:59:02 -0500
From: "Rob Sartorius"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Where is the ACT sensor on a 1994 302 F-150?

My neighbor just bought a 1994 F-150 4x4 302 auto and we ran codes and got
113 and 172.
I can't seem to find the ACT(Air Charge Temp) sensor? Anybody know where
that rascal is? I found the O2 sensor and its easy to get to so no problem
there?

ROB Sartorius
Edmond, OK

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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:13:44 PDT
From: "ken haley"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Key Problem

I managed to replace the ignition switch on my 83 Bronco without dropping
the lower dash and steering column, but it is a manual trans. It was tight,
but only took 15 minutes.

Ken

______________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:18:36 PDT
From: "ken haley"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - uneven acceleration

>My 89 f250 with 351W has a terrible idle, and accelerates unevenly when I
>get on it. Disconnected the egr and plugged the hole, but made no
>difference. I just replaced the fuel pressure regulator, also to no help.
>66,000 miles and all new tune up parts. Also the mileage is bad, about
>11mpg. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html


Replace every vacuum hose on the truck. Might cost you $15 and half a day. I
replace vacuum hoses every 10 years whether they need it or not. Saves a lot
of idle-stumble incurable problems. Also, check bleed-down on the brake
booster.

Ken
Ken



______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 01:08:05 -0500
From: "Dave Harmier"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: ROTFLMAO about..........


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