From: owner-80-96-list-digest ford-trucks.com (80-96-list-digest)
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Subject: 80-96-list-digest V3 #290
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80-96-list-digest Saturday, October 16 1999 Volume 03 : Number 290



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 80-96 - 302 Exhaust Manifold
FTE 80-96 - Dave in Houston with exhaust problems
FTE 80-96 - New Guy in love with old Bronco (needs advice)
RE: FTE 80-96 - New Guy in love with old Bronco (needs advice)
Re: FTE 80-96 - Oil Leak
Re: FTE 80-96 - New Guy in love with old Bronco (needs advice)
FTE 80-96 - Re: 2 Questions
FTE 80-96 - ZF Transmissions
Re: FTE 80-96 - New Guy in love with old Bronco THANKS!
Re: FTE 80-96 - ZF Transmissions
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: 2 Questions
FTE 80-96 - RE: 302 Exhaust Manifolds
Re: FTE 80-96 - New Guy in love with old Bronco THANKS!
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: 2 Questions
FTE 80-96 - 302 Spark Plug Wires and Exhaust Manifold
Re: FTE 80-96 - 302 Spark Plug Wires and Exhaust Manifold

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:33:27 -0400
From: Dave Heverin
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - 302 Exhaust Manifold

Dave,

What a great opportunity to give up on those cast manifolds and install some
headers! In addition if the rest of the exhaust system needs to be replaced
then you won't be limited to OEM replacement type headers. This can all
translate into a better flowing system which should produce a little more
power and possibly increase gas milage. You are one lucky guy!

Dave
Bel Air




- -----Original Message-----
From: Dave Harmier [mailto:dharmier gte.net]
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 10:33 PM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 302 Exhaust Manifold


OK, we know ALL drivers side manifolds crack. My 92 302, and dads 91 351,
and an F-250 company truck 351 I drove a couple years back.... so getting
one from a junkyard isn't even possible.

Is there any aftermarket source? Decent price? Or does Ford make better
ones now? (bend over and spread 'em!). Was gonna do headers, but I've
always hated headers, why stop now?

On to exhaust system. It has a crappy cat back with no mufflers, on which
one side has rusted off.
I'm going to have my cats tested, and replaced if restrictive, and go with
a 2 1/4 or 2 1/2 single exhaust.
Which size?

Inquireing minds want to know!

Dave H.
Houston

Hey Roy & Jim, wasn't Fall short lived? I don't know about you, but I still
find it quite warm and HUMID!

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:54:10 -0500
From: dale fortenberry jr
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Dave in Houston with exhaust problems

To Dave H. in Houston with exhaust problems:

FMG Muffler shop in Crosby does INCREDIBLE work. They are all drag
racers so they
really love cars and take a lot of time and do the job right. I drive
all the
way from Marble Falls (600 miles round trip) to let them work on mine.
They
built a 3" cat back system with a flowmaster on my 92 f-150 and it looks
bone
stock. They even reused all the factory hangers. It sounds GREAT when I

accelerate, but it is a little rumbly at constant highway speeds of 65.
If I
could do it again, I would probably buy a little quieter muffler. I
doubt there
is anything wrong with your converter, after looking inside of mine at
FMG, it
doesn't look like much can go wrong with one. I have always wondered if
these
clogged converter stories were just a load of BS from people selling
them. Tell
em I sent ya!

Dale Fortenberry,
Marble Falls
TEXAS



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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:46:15 EDT
From: Sht3D aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - New Guy in love with old Bronco (needs advice)

Hi. My name is Al Woodard, from New Hampshire.

I'm new to the list, having just found you about a week ago and just
subscribed a couple of days ago.

I could use a little advice.

I've found an 87 Bronco for $750. It's in both good and bad shape. An older
gentleman owned it and put 60,000 miles on it until last year when snow fell
off his roof and dented the roof of the truck and broke the windshield. He
let it sit that way until spring, and sold it to a guy next door to him. At
this point the truck would not start. He replaced the Distributor, the
computer, the fuel pump, all the filters and the windshield and finally the
wiring harness. It now runs like a top, with a small squeal in the tensioner
on the fan belt, which the mechanic who checked it out said would not be a
big deal to fix. The 4 wheel drive is in great shape, and otherwise it is
mechanically sound. Except for the roof and the tail gate, some surface
rust, the rest of it is pretty good,

So what do you think? Is this a good deal or should I be looking for
something else. My plans would be to restore it and make it look good. How
hard is it going to be to get the roof fixed? What do you imagine this will
cost? To be honest, after looking at all the pictures of the Bronco's on the
WWW, I think I am in love. It's an ugly duckling to be sure, but what can I
say? Is there anything else I should be concerned with. The engine is a 4.9
with a 5 speed manual transmission and I think the clutch is going.

Thanks for any input.

Al
Future Bronco Owner


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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:33:24 -0600
From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - New Guy in love with old Bronco (needs advice)

Al,

Huh, she's too good for you, leave her and I will see what I can do!

Does that answer your question?

Just kidding, sounds like a great deal if you have the ability and time to
spruce her up. She sounds like she will initially take a little money but
later she will be low maintenance and lots of fun.

Seriously, if you don't hit on her I am sure I would love her too :-).

Scott

- -----Original Message-----
From: Sht3D aol.com [SMTP:Sht3D aol.com]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 8:46 AM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - New Guy in love with old Bronco (needs advice)

Hi. My name is Al Woodard, from New Hampshire.

I've found an 87 Bronco for $750. It's in both good and bad shape
I think I am in love. Is there anything else I should be concerned with.

Thanks for any input.

Al
Future Bronco Owner
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:01:20 -0700
From: Mark Ponsford
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Oil Leak

>Greeting Listers,
>
> I have a '93 F150 SC 351, I seem to be having problems with an oil leak.
>When I bought the truck it had a huge leak (about 1.5 quarts a day) and I
>have slowed it down a lot. I had to change the pan gasket, and rear main
>seal. The question I have is: It has only been a week since I have changed
>the rear main seal, I am not seeing any oil on the ground anymore (thank
>god) but when I open the hood and look at my left valve cover gasket I can
>see oil right about the exaugst manifold, seems to be leaking worse from the
>rear of the cover. I am going to change this gasket out this weekend but I
>need to know if I should go ahead and do both (a lot of work), the right
>side is solid no leak, or should I just do the left. The other question I
>have is what type of gasket do you recommend, the parts house has a cork
>(blah) gasket and a metal gasket. The cork is much cheaper of course. Are
>the valve covers eaisily warped on this engine? I seem to remember the
>person I purchased it from saying it had been changed before.
>
>Thanks
>
>Chris Worley
>Waxahachie, TX
>
I recently had to replace the left valve cover gasket on my '88 302. What
happened was I went into one of those quicky-lube joints and when they were
pumping in the new oil, the attendent noticed it pouring out the backside
of the valve cover. (Argggh)

That weekend I took the left cover off (after buying a replacement cork
gasket), and discovered the factory gasket had opened up on one end. The
gasket is actually manufactured in two pieces and then the two pieces are
fused together. The fusing had opened up on mine. (The section on the
intake side of the head is regular cork and the section on the exhaust side
is treated for high temp. The new gasket (Felpro?) is made the same way).

As with me, my right side is OK which is great news because I don't want to
have to remove all the induction plumbing just to get at the right cover.
That'd be a huge job.

I'd go with cork. Also, the gaskets have metal spacers in them so that you
can't crush and split them when torquing them down.

Mark



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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:38:50 -0700
From: "Radoje Spasojevic"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - New Guy in love with old Bronco (needs advice)

I would definitely jump on a chance to buy that Bronco. Assuming the roof
isn't seriously caved in, it shouldn't be too much trouble to have it
repaired, especially since there is easy access from the inside to pound it
out.

Rade Spasojevic -- rspasoje mindspring.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.2bigbroncos.org/
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=194
- -Rubicon Tested-
- -----Original Message-----
From: Sht3D aol.com
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, October 15, 1999 7:47 AM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - New Guy in love with old Bronco (needs advice)


>Hi. My name is Al Woodard, from New Hampshire.
>
>I'm new to the list, having just found you about a week ago and just
>subscribed a couple of days ago.
>
>I could use a little advice.
>
>I've found an 87 Bronco for $750. It's in both good and bad shape. An
older
>gentleman owned it and put 60,000 miles on it until last year when snow
fell
>off his roof and dented the roof of the truck and broke the windshield. He
>let it sit that way until spring, and sold it to a guy next door to him.
At
>this point the truck would not start. He replaced the Distributor, the
>computer, the fuel pump, all the filters and the windshield and finally the
>wiring harness. It now runs like a top, with a small squeal in the
tensioner
>on the fan belt, which the mechanic who checked it out said would not be a
>big deal to fix. The 4 wheel drive is in great shape, and otherwise it is
>mechanically sound. Except for the roof and the tail gate, some surface
>rust, the rest of it is pretty good,
>
>So what do you think? Is this a good deal or should I be looking for
>something else. My plans would be to restore it and make it look good.
How
>hard is it going to be to get the roof fixed? What do you imagine this
will
>cost? To be honest, after looking at all the pictures of the Bronco's on
the
>WWW, I think I am in love. It's an ugly duckling to be sure, but what can
I
>say? Is there anything else I should be concerned with. The engine is a
4.9
>with a 5 speed manual transmission and I think the clutch is going.
>
>Thanks for any input.
>
>Al
>Future Bronco Owner
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:54:20 -0700
From: "Joan and Walt Posluszny"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: 2 Questions

1. Anyone know the stock factory H.P. and Torque numbers for a stock 1985
F-150 4x4 351-2v (hi-Altitude package), 4 spd, manual O.D.?
2. Does anyone know the percent loss in H.P. per 1000 feet rise in altitude?
Is it constant as you rise in altitude?
Thanks Walt
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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:50:42 -0700
From: Mike Madden
Subject: FTE 80-96 - ZF Transmissions

I have an '88 F-250 /hd 4x4 with a 460 and the ZF 5-speed trans.
Although it is
getting somewhat noisy at around 120k miles, its given no trouble so
far. As i
remember, this trans. was standard w/ the 460 engine, and optional with
a 351. It is
a granny first gear, 4th is direct, and 5th is a .87 overdrive. A friend
has the same
trans in a '92, w/ over 100k miles, and his is not making noise like
mine does and has
also been trouble free.
mike madden.

80-96-list-digest wrote:

> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:22:12 -0500
> From: Gary Spradley
> Subject: [none]
>
> Can anyone out there tell me if there was ever a five speed manual
tranny
> with fifth being an overdrive put in any 80 - 96 Ford 4X4 trucks?
>
> I desperatly need another highway gear after going to 4.10 gears.
>
> The truck currently has a New Process 435 but it's a four speed with
three
> usable gears. I understand there was a Warner T18 used as well but I
don't know
> how many gears it has.
>
> I've also been told the ZF would work but not recommended to use due
to
> it's weak design and unreliability.
>
> Thanks for any info.
>
> Gary Spradley
> 84 F150 4X4



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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:13:48 EDT
From: Sht3D aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - New Guy in love with old Bronco THANKS!

Rade and Scott....

Thanks for the info. I came home this afternoon and was heart broken when I
saw that he had taken the sign he posted on the little store up the street,
but when I drove around the corner, the truck was still there and he had come
down to $550.

I called him and he said give him $500 and I could take it home today. Well,
I just bought me an old truck. Thanks again. The journey begins.

Al

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:45:07 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - ZF Transmissions

>I have an '88 F-250 /hd 4x4 with a 460 and the ZF 5-speed trans.
>Although it is
>getting somewhat noisy at around 120k miles, its given no trouble so
>far. As i
>remember, this trans. was standard w/ the 460 engine, and optional with
>a 351. It is
>a granny first gear, 4th is direct, and 5th is a .87 overdrive. A friend
>has the same
>trans in a '92, w/ over 100k miles, and his is not making noise like
>mine does and has
>also been trouble free.
>mike madden.
>

As far as the noise in your transmission... I don't know what you have in
it, or what it calls for, but you might try heavier oil. My Mazda 5 speed
is a little noisy and leaks. Instead of ATF that is supposed to be in it I
run 40 wt engine oil. This helped a lot. Recently I added about 2 quarts of
bar and chain oil. This stuff is very sticky and should stick to the gears.


Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."


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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:41:43 EDT
From: FULSZBRONC aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: 2 Questions

Hmm...your questions piqued my interest, since I also have a '85 and had a
'84 351W hi-altitude...so I double checked my '85 factory manual....no such
thing as a 2bbl.carb. The 4v is 210hp 4000rpm, 305 2800 torque.

In a message dated 10/15/99 1:00:10 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
redstone home.com writes:


F-150 4x4 351-2v (hi-Altitude package), 4 spd, manual O.D.?
2. Does anyone know the percent loss in H.P. per 1000 feet rise in altitude?
Is it constant as you rise in altitude?
Thanks Walt >>
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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:39:46 -0500
From: "Dave Harmier"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: 302 Exhaust Manifolds

Roy Wrote:

>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:46:10 -0500
>From: Roy Houston


>Ford stuff:

>I've got a good set of manifolds on my 351W, far as I know anyway... Maybe
>you'd buy these for enough for me to get a set of headers? $150/pair?

>Why do you hate headers? Leaks, poor fit, loosening? I've never had a car
>with headers.

>Houston weather stuff:

>We have friends from Canada that've been here for two years and they were
>remarking how nice it was couple of weeks ago. I told 'em not to get used
>to it, we'd be sweatin' for Thanksgiving!!!

>Mosquitoes are killin' me and it ain't even been rainin'!!!

>Roy

Only nead drivers side (Although I remember passenger side manis are prone
to crackin' too!)

We had a 350 Suburban (now neighbor owns it) with headers and they were
(and are) A Nitemare!
Leaks and blown gaskets (OF COUSRE it's a GENERAL MALFUNCTION vehicle)

Hence my desire to NOT put headers in place of manifolds with just ONE
leak!

Eh? What do Canucks know???

I got pretty warm today, as well as mosquito bit at Ellington "Wings Over
Houston 99"

I be tired and sunburnt as I write this, so thats all fer now!!!

Dave H.
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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:05:56 -0500
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - New Guy in love with old Bronco THANKS!

Congratulations, Al!

I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy my old F-150. I drive it every day.

Just keep in mind that it is an OLD truck and it WILL need work. Don't get
all discouraged if it is not as reliable as a new truck for you right away.
Given a lot of your time (and a fair amount of $$$) it can and will be as
reliable as a new truck, even better. (Mine is.) Just give it a chance.

And we are all here to help you out as you go.


Jim Cannon
Houston, TX
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton '63 Buick Riviera 401 V-8
'80 Ford F-150 300 I-6 2WD
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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:31:20 -0500
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: 2 Questions

At 11:54 15/10/99 -0700, you wrote:
>1. Anyone know the stock factory H.P. and Torque numbers for a stock 1985
>F-150 4x4 351-2v (hi-Altitude package), 4 spd, manual O.D.?
>2. Does anyone know the percent loss in H.P. per 1000 feet rise in altitude?
>Is it constant as you rise in altitude?

Walt-
You ask tough questions. I have a text book here that addresses question
#2. I will extract key passages for you:

"Air is compressible, so its density goes down as you go up and barometric
pressure goes down. An engine is actually an air pump. HP is proportional
to the weight of the air pumped into the engine. At 10,000 feet, the
density of the air is about 75% of density at sea level. Therefore, HP is
about 75% of sea level HP. At 20,000 feet it is about 50% of sea level HP.

Actually, the power decreases with altitude at a slightly greater rate than
the decrease in air density with altitude", bit it is a good approximation.

There is also a table in the book with "weight of 100 cu ft air" at various
altitudes. The ratio of these would approximate change in HP. Sea level:
7.65 lb; 5,000 feet: 6.59 lb; 10,000 feet 5.65 lb.

Hope this helps.


Jim Cannon
Houston, TX
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton '63 Buick Riviera 401 V-8
'80 Ford F-150 300 I-6 2WD
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 01:48:36 -0500
From: "Shawn & Jennifer Clark"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 302 Spark Plug Wires and Exhaust Manifold

Hi-

I'm looking for some recommendations on good spark plug wires and any
tricks to extending their service life. I've had no problems with plug
wires on my Nissan's and Honda's, but Chrylser's and Ford's seem to eat
them like candy. I drove the 1991 F-150 w/302 about 150 miles today...man,
what a miserable drive. The darned thing had a combination miss/ping/late
fire going. No power. This was not happening at all the last time I drove
it. Every time I go to drive the blasted thing more than ten miles from
the house, something different stops working. This time it appears to be
the wires. These wires are less than two years old and were Autozone
"Double Silicone" wires with "Limited Lifetime Warranty". I'm about to
find out how limited.

I checked a number of things during the day to diagnose the problem. After
running 92 super premium in it without clearing up the miss/ping/late fire
and after jiggling/rerouting wires I suspected cross fire or some sort of
ignition gremlin. When it got dark, I parked it in a dark spot and cracked
the hood enough so that I could see the plugs without the light coming on;
and it rewarded me with a blue light show. I've got several different
wires arcing with one another and one with the coil wire--they are not
touching, but they are close enough to arc. Also, back of the coil toward
firewall is giving off some faint blue light, not sure precisely where.
Should I replace the coil, since I've torn about every other OEM part out
of this heap? Any recommendations on good, RELIABLE wires? The Motorcraft
wires didn't seem to be all that longlived and the Autozone wires have not
impressed me much--although the light show was pretty. The truck is nearly
stock except for a drop in K&N. Anyone care to suggest wire re-routing
techniques? Some of the routing on these F-150's looks like it was done by
a drunken sailor. I'm thinking of finding some sort of plastic spacers to
put at key points to keep the wires at least one inch apart.

Next problem, cracked exhaust manifold on passenger side. I've known about
this for awhile, but have not had time to worry about it since more
pressing items kept breaking. Any suggestions on where I can get new stock
exhaust manifolds cheap...and did they reinforce the area around the back
plug so the things won't crack? I'm not really wanting headers, unless
someone can recommend ones that are pretty quiet and won't put a lot of
excess heat under the hood.

Help would be appreciated. The lack of reliability of this truck is
forcing me to consider putting it out to pasture. I could understand the
problems if I knew nothing about cars, and never did preventive
maintenance, but this thing has been extremely well maintained and it still
can't seem to make it around the block without help. I'm tired of spending
the weekend working on it when I intended to take it on a trip instead. I
like working on cars to improve their performance, and doing general
preventive maintenance, but I don't care much for repetitively fixing
poorly designed/constructed components. Tonight I drove the Ford over to
the Toyota dealership to look at the new Tundra...good thing I could only
look (dealership was closed) or I might have made an impulse purchase.


Shawn Clark
e-mail: sd&jkclark tyler.net


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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:19:14 -0700
From: "Radoje Spasojevic"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 302 Spark Plug Wires and Exhaust Manifold

As far as the plug wires go I would recommend the Ford Motorsport SVO 9mm
wires, they work great. routing of the wires is very important and the
dividers can help keep things apart. The two wires you should pay most
attention to are the number 7 and 8 wires. since they are right next to
each other on the dist. they have a high likelyhood of crossfiring. Ford
has put a TSB out on this problem and it basicly says to keep the number 7
and 8 wires as far apart as possible.
Cracked manifold are also another 302 problem. Such a big one that finding
good manifolds at the wrecking yard is pretty tough to do, but that would be
the first place to look.

Rade Spasojevic -- rspasoje mindspring.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.2bigbroncos.org/
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=194
- -Rubicon Tested-
- -----Original Message-----
From: Shawn & Jennifer Clark
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, October 15, 1999 11:47 PM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 302 Spark Plug Wires and Exhaust Manifold


>Hi-
>
>I'm looking for some recommendations on good spark plug wires and any
>tricks to extending their service life. I've had no problems with plug
>wires on my Nissan's and Honda's, but Chrylser's and Ford's seem to eat
>them like candy. I drove the 1991 F-150 w/302 about 150 miles today...man,
>what a miserable drive. The darned thing had a combination miss/ping/late
>fire going. No power. This was not happening at all the last time I drove
>it. Every time I go to drive the blasted thing more than ten miles from
>the house, something different stops working. This time it appears to be
>the wires. These wires are less than two years old and were Autozone
>"Double Silicone" wires with "Limited Lifetime Warranty". I'm about to
>find out how limited.
>
>I checked a number of things during the day to diagnose the problem. After
>running 92 super premium in it without clearing up the miss/ping/late fire
>and after jiggling/rerouting wires I suspected cross fire or some sort of
>ignition gremlin. When it got dark, I parked it in a dark spot and cracked
>the hood enough so that I could see the plugs without the light coming on;
>and it rewarded me with a blue light show. I've got several different
>wires arcing with one another and one with the coil wire--they are not
>touching, but they are close enough to arc. Also, back of the coil toward
>firewall is giving off some faint blue light, not sure precisely where.
>Should I replace the coil, since I've torn about every other OEM part out
>of this heap? Any recommendations on good, RELIABLE wires? The Motorcraft
>wires didn't seem to be all that longlived and the Autozone wires have not
>impressed me much--although the light show was pretty. The truck is nearly
>stock except for a drop in K&N. Anyone care to suggest wire re-routing
>techniques? Some of the routing on these F-150's looks like it was done by
>a drunken sailor. I'm thinking of finding some sort of plastic spacers to
>put at key points to keep the wires at least one inch apart.
>
>Next problem, cracked exhaust manifold on passenger side. I've known about
>this for awhile, but have not had time to worry about it since more
>pressing items kept breaking. Any suggestions on where I can get new stock
>exhaust manifolds cheap...and did they reinforce the area around the back
>plug so the things won't crack? I'm not really wanting headers, unless
>someone can recommend ones that are pretty quiet and won't put a lot of
>excess heat under the hood.
>
>Help would be appreciated. The lack of reliability of this truck is
>forcing me to consider putting it out to pasture. I could understand the
>problems if I knew nothing about cars, and never did preventive....


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