From: owner-80-96-list-digest ford-trucks.com (80-96-list-digest)
To: 80-96-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: 80-96-list-digest V3 #274
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80-96-list-digest Thursday, September 30 1999 Volume 03 : Number 274



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 80-96 - 84 - F150 Timing Problems
Re: FTE 80-96 - Fan Clutch Noise?
FTE 80-96 - 84 F150 timing problems
FTE 80-96 - off road and towing packages
FTE 80-96 - Header horror storries
Re:FTE 80-96 - exhausting.... leaks go Headers!!
FTE 80-96 - PS whine
Re: FTE 80-96 - Request for help 92' F250 electrical
Re: FTE 80-96 - No cheese with this whine.
Re: FTE 80-96 - PS whine
FTE 80-96 - Captain Chairs in 93 F150
Re: FTE 80-96 - Captain Chairs in 93 F150

=======================================================================

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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:10:45 -0500
From: "Steve Schmeckpeper"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 84 - F150 Timing Problems

Your dizzy might just need a shot of oil. Take the cap off and turn the
rotor to see if it's in a bind. It should move freely between stops, and
snap consistantly back to zero (centrifugal advance springs). Add oil to the
felt in the center of the dist shaft till it wont soak up any more, then put
the rotor back on and turn back and forth till it smooths out. Hope this
works for you ;^)
Smeck 87F150 302 T-18


- ----- Original Message -----
From: William E. Swickard
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 10:20 PM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 84 - F150 Timing Problems


> I have been watching this dialog for several months and noticed that I am
> not the only one having ignition timing problems with their old Fords.
Can
> someone add input to my particular problem?
>
> Mine is a 84 Fors F150 with the 5.8 Liter V8, 4V Dual Foat Holly, and
> aparently the Duraspark II or Duraspark III ingition system, probably
with
> the Electronic Engine Control. Cold or hot, the engine changes timing
from
> more or less normal, to significantly retarded, causing all sorts of
> drivability problems, especially in town. It seems to behave OK on the
highway.
>
> What is causing this, and how do I correct the problem, or bypass the
guilty
> parts?
>
> Bill
>
>
>
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:33:47 -0400
From: "David Anderson (EUS)"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Fan Clutch Noise?

This reply may be late but I had that problem in a Jeep once. The fan was
hitting the shroud because the shroud was cracked and being pulled toward
the fan tips. Happened mostly when cold because the fan has alot of pull
until the viscous fluid warms up. I repaired the shroud. To check the fan
clutch grab the fan and see if there is play in any direction. Should not
move much. Also look for broken or sagging engine or transmission mounts.

David Anderson
Forest, VA


>>>>From: "James"
Subject:
Hello All,

I have a 1989 F150 with a 300 I6 and Mazda 5 speed. Lately I've
noticed that when I first crank up the truck and start driving, it
makes a scraping sound like the fan is hitting the plastic fan
shroud, but there is no evidence that the fan is actually contacting
the shroud. The noise is intermittent and is worse when I hit bumps
in the road and it goes away after a few minutes of driving after
the engine warms up. .....


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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:00:59 -0500
From: "PHILLIP P. GUIDRY"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 84 F150 timing problems

> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:20:26 -0600
> From: "William E. Swickard"
> Subject: FTE 80-96 - 84 - F150 Timing Problems
>
> I have been watching this dialog for several months and noticed that I am
> not the only one having ignition timing problems with their old Fords. Can
> someone add input to my particular problem?
>
> Mine is a 84 Fors F150 with the 5.8 Liter V8, 4V Dual Foat Holly, and
> aparently the Duraspark II or Duraspark III ingition system, probably with
> the Electronic Engine Control. Cold or hot, the engine changes timing from
> more or less normal, to significantly retarded, causing all sorts of
> drivability problems, especially in town. It seems to behave OK on the highway.
>
> What is causing this, and how do I correct the problem, or bypass the guilty
> parts?
>
> Bill
>
>
Hey Bill,if in fact you do have DuraSpark II,which has a 3
connecter,yellow grommet module,your problem is likely to be the BARO
switch. It is hooked to the 3 wire connector of the module and usually
screwed down the the firewall.It's sole function is for signaling the
module to retard timing! I don't think you have DuraSpark III,which has
a 2 connector,brown grommet module,because those systems where mainly
used with the VV carberator.On the DS III,the computer told the module
what to do and there was only a rotor inside the dist. with a balancer
mounted crank position sensor,not coil pick up.

Phillip
phillip.guidry acadian.net
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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:41:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: dennis ward
Subject: FTE 80-96 - off road and towing packages

i was wondering what comes with each of these
packages, in specific for a '95 f150. i know that the
off road comes with a skid plate under the transfer
case, but are there any others? any information is
appreciated.

- --Dennis
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:12:43 -0700
From: "McMahon, Todd R."
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Header horror storries

Rob:

Once I got my headers INSTALLED, everything was ok and I am very pleased
with the results. BUT, getting to this point was not the easiest task in
the world. I have learned a lot with this modification, be SURE to learn
from MY mistakes and those of others on this list in order to reduce the
number of problems you might have.

The following is an exerpt from my web-page, describing the problems I had.
If you want to check out my site, go to: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://209.19.94.132/tmcmahon

Here's that exerpt:

It all started when my truck suddenly got louder...
That weekend I went to go tighten the exhaust manifold studs, and noticed
that I had blown the exhaust manifold gasket on the number 8 cylinder
(rear-most on driver's side). About 5 seconds later my wife comes running
out of the house wondering what was wrong, as I was shouting obscenities...
After seeing the blown exhaust manifold gasket (no big thing, right?) I
notice that BOTH of the exhaust manifold studs on that cylinder had broken
off at the cylinder head. (DAMN - IT!) Further inspection reveals that I
have 3 more broken exhaust manifold studs on the other side of the engine
(one on the number 1 cylinder, 2 more on the number 4 cylinder). Probing
the holes verifies that they have indeed broken off, not simply fallen out.

There's no room to work on them where they're located, so I have to pull the
heads. Pulling the heads means that the truck becomes inoperable. Forgive
me for this next bit, as I must "vent", and in order to do this - I must
stray from the topic for a moment (if you wish to jump past this part, skip
the rest of this paragraph, and the next one too). This is also why I
wished I lived in the back-woods on about 5 acre's of land... and had a
shot-gun. Let me explain: I live in "suburbia", in a small house, with a
dinky little single-car garage (used as a laundry-room, storage area, and
work-shop), and a very narrow and short drive-way. Needless to say there's
no room for "The BEAST" (my F350 Crew-cab / Dually) on the drive-way without
it blocking the sidewalk and sticking out into the street. In most
communities, however, this wouldn't be a problem (except maybe in one of
those "Planned Communities" with rules about house color, roofing materials,
lawn & garden care, etc) - you would simply do the repair in the street, in
front of your house, right?. Unfortunately, my house is 2 doors away from a
self-elected "block-captain", who (in her own defense) does a great job for
our block's "community watch" program, which is intended to reduce criminal
activity. The problem is that she is not simply "watching" for criminal
activity, but ANY violation of ANY type of law or civic code she can find.
To put it simply, if I were to start working on the truck in the street,
she'd file a complaint, and I'd get a citation. Believe me when I say that
she has truly earned the nick-name of "Frau Himmler" that the neighborhood
calls her.

On that Saturday morning, I pop up the hood of the truck while it is out on
the street to take some photographs of the hoses and wires (etc), and I also
start taking some notes as to what wire goes where - as well as attaching
labels to the wires and hoses. About a half hour after I get started with
this, I notice that the one of the police's "parking enforcement" golf-carts
is making the rounds. Coincidence? Yea, right. I decide to pull the
truck up on the lawn, in front of my house, right next to the driveway (it
just barely fits). The golf-cart driver takes a good long look in my
direction, (after pretending to inspect the top of a telephone pole a few
houses down the street) before parking in front of Frau Himmler's house.
The police officer goes inside for a visit (doughnuts and coffee no doubt).
I decide to risk it, and start taking the engine apart. My non-operational
vehicle is on private property, not on the street, so I should be ok, right?
Well, as I'm unbolting the intake manifold, she walks by and hands me a
flyer on parking regulations, with highlighted paragraphs on the
restrictions for parking on lawns... I could get fined $70 per citation, up
to 2 citations per day... (I honestly felt like shooting her.) We argued
for a bit, and she eventually walked away in a huff, but I guess I won the
argument. It turns out that I didn't get cited, and since the truck was on
my lawn for 16 days straight, I consider myself lucky. Had I been cited, I
would have had to tow the truck to my parents house a couple of miles away,
which would make working on it a bit of a pain, as my tools and compressor
are all in my garage.

Anyway, back to the real subject - the TRUCK... I want to stress here the
importance of taking good notes, pictures, and putting labels on everything
you remove. I'm positive that this attention to detail was what allowed me
to succeed. I spent probably 3 times the amount of time it would normally
take to remove the heads, simply to take notes and pictures of what hoses
and wires were pluged in to what... but it was well worth it.

I had the heads done at the local machine shop. They extracted the broken
bolts, took it apart, cleaned it up in the hot-tank, plane the surfaces,
replaced the valve seats, and the exhaust valves. I cleaned up the block,
and the intake manifold. Used a straight edge on both - they were fine. No
warpage, and no cracks... Good! I had the intake manifold cleaned up in
the hot-tank too. Got the heads and the intake manifold back, and cleaned
them up again with acetone, then again with rubbing alcohol, masked them
off, and painted them FORD-BLUE with a hi-temp (over 700 deg. F) ceramic
based engine paint. I did the same to the valve covers, too. If it runs
half as good as it will look, I'll be doing fine.

This is where I started to get stupid... REAL stupid...
I was so excited about how well the heads and intake manifold turned out,
that I bought the gaskets (etc), and immediately started to re-install them.
After they're in place, torqued down (etc), I remember the "exhaust
manifolds" (DAMN!). I grab the straight edge, and sure enough - they're
warped to hell... What's this? CRACKS? (Both of them too, it figures.)
I call the dealer's parts department... a new pair of exhaust manifolds
will cost about $1100.00 (ouch!). I take the exhaust manifolds to the
machine shop, and ask if they can repair the cracks and then plane out the
warpage... the guys there just laugh at me. It turns out that the exhaust
manifolds with air injection for the Big-block Fords are made from an
extreemly hard CAST STEEL, and not simply cast iron, and they would be next
to impossible to repair, and it would be cost prohibitive.

So... the search is on for some headers... I decided on Doug Thorley
Headers due to price ($720 complete "cat-forward" kit) and availability. I
go to pick up the headers (45 minute drive to the distributor) the day after
I order them, and take them home. OOPS... I ordered the wrong ones... I
need the ones with air injection. Back to the shop they go. A couple of
days later I go back to the shop to pick up the new headers when they get
in, I open the box at the shop, headers look ok - so back home I go.
OOPS... I ordered the wrong cross-over pipes (Damn!)... so... back to the
shop again. I get the replacement cross-over pipes the next day -
everything is correct now. Except for the fact that I can't get the headers
into place. Can't get them in from above, or from below (Damn!). SO....
off come the intake manifold and the heads again. WHAT'S THIS???? A
SHOP-RAG in the #4 cylinder!!!! (DAMN! How could I have missed that?!!!) I
guess I'm lucky that I had to remove the heads again!!! Once I recover from
the shock - I get the block, heads and intake manifold cleaned up again, and
spend another $150.00 on gaskets (etc). The headers drop right into place,
and the heads go back on like I know what I'm doing. I spend the next day
under the truck loosening, removing and shifting the exhaust pipes around to
get the collectors and cross-over pipes into place. I have to cut off an
air injection pipe that feeds into the cataclysmic converter in order to do
it. I'll fix it later. Getting the air-injection and the EGR stuff
hooked up to the headers was going to take some creativity as well as a
couple trips to the local hardware store. I guess I'll just have to fix
that stuff later, too.

I got the intake manifold, throttle body, wires and hoses all hooked up by
late afternoon the next day. I disconnect the wire between the distributor
and the coil, and turn the engine over to listen for problems. Everything
sounds fine, so I plug the coil back in, and turn the key... it starts on
the first attempt!! YAHOO!

Anyways, it could have been A-LOT worse... blown engine, parking citations,
problems starting, a potential murder rap (etc)... I'm sure that the notes
and labels helped. At this point, I still had a couple of little things to
do - fix the EGR pipe and the air injection into the cat. I also noticed
that it was leaking fluids from both the oil and the transmission
dip-sticks. The pan gaskets should probably be replaced as well, and it
looks like the oil-pan gasket will be no fun... as its right above a cross
member...

Come-on FORD engineers!!! What do I have to do, lift the damn engine?

Hope your projects are less stressful...!

;-)

Todd
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 99 11:48:40 -0700
From: ken_schneider
Subject: Re:FTE 80-96 - exhausting.... leaks go Headers!!

Just replaced the manifolds on my 302 full size '87 Bronco with Hedman shorty
headers.

My stock manifolds cracked too. One was replaced under warranty at 35k.
I replaced one at 70k. Then I replaced the engine at 187k with a '92 from the
junk yard, complete with manifolds. They both just cracked at 210k.

The Hedman headers allow the use of the existing exhuast pipe. They fit pefect.
The dip stick bracket did bolt to a manifold stud. I bent it by hand so it now
bolts
to a valve cover bolt. Amazing the bracket lined up to that bolt. They have a
hole
for the O2 sensor and include a plug, which I used, because my O2 sensor is down
by the
catalytic converter. All bolts and gasket came with the headers.

Ken

'87 Full Size Bronco
'70 Full Size F100




____________________Reply Separator____________________
Subject: FTE 80-96 - exhausting.... leaks
Author:
Date: 9/29/99 4:49 AM

If you want the best fit, check out Doug Thorley headers. They seem to have
all the angles covered, have a great gasket, and their flange seems to be
thicker than most others. I can even change my starter without loosening
the headers!

Slik

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Guerra
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 12:48 PM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - exhausting.... leaks


> I just found an exhaust leak in my 96 F-250 (351W) right side exhaust
> manifold. I am not exactly thrilled with this, but I have to fix it none
> the less. I thought I might change out the stock manifolds to a set of
> aftermarket headers. Does anyone have any experience with a good set that
> will fit. I will probably do the entire exhaust system while I am at it,
> so I would consider full kits too.
>
> Onto another note, anyone chip their computer? I was trying to decide
> which one to install.
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:55:35 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - PS whine

Gerald writes: >>Since I acquired my truck the power steering pump has emitted
a rather loud
whine when under load. This whine is apparent when at idle and not under a
load as well. I dismissed this noise over the last couple of years, but it
is now getting on my nerves. I have changed the serpentine belt with no
effect on this noise. The power steering works fine and does not leak a
drop. I have heard this whine from other 1994 F-series trucks and figured
this pump is just loud. Is there anything I can do to remedy this noise?

Try loosening the PS belt. The most common destroyer of PS pumps is tightening
the belt too tight. It is not an alternator, so needs only to be tight enough
to prevent slippage under load. Loosen it until you have belt squeaking while
turning, then tighten it just slightly until slippage stops.

Let us know if it works.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:29:18 +0200
From: "David Anderson (EUS)"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Request for help 92' F250 electrical

If I hear you right your talking about a fluctuating idle with a warm engine (engine running under computer control). This sounds like the classic symptom of a bad throttle position sensor. This is located on the throttle body and is checked with an ohmmeter at the 3 pin plug. With the engine and ignition off, read the resistance from the center pin to either end pin with an analog needle type meter while slowly working the throttle from idle to wide open. The resistance must change SMOOTHLY. Any sudden needle movements to high or low resistance mean the TPS is bad. Easy to replace on the sixes.

David Anderson
Forest, VA

>>>>>> I would like to ask for help with my F250 6 cylinder. My problem is when
the engine reaches normal operating temperature RPM starts to rise and
flactuate. What could be the cause? My guess is th sensor. But I no longer
have my owner's manual. Any suggestion? If not, is there some way I can get
a copy of the electrical diagram from the computer box to the engine
sensor. Thank you for any help you can extend.



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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:15:37 -0400
From: S Spaulding
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - No cheese with this whine.

Mine was quiet when new, gradually getting more and more whiney until
this summer, when I replaced it at 120,000 miles. The new one is
silent, at the moment. Luckily, I was able to "whine" to a sister
company, made some connections, and swapped a new pump and lines for two
company shirts... Net cost (to me) - $0!!

Steve

"Harris, Scott" wrote:
>
> My '85 302 1/2 ton has the same problem on the rebuilt I installed. Thought
> I bled it wrong but a mechanic gave me the classic answer, "Aw, all Ford
> Trucks do that." It steers great just complains alot. However my original
> didn't do it but I have heard new ones do it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gerald L. Hinkle Jr. CPA [mailto:2hinkles sprynet.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 4:07 PM
> To: ford trucks
> Subject: FTE 80-96 - No cheese with this whine.
>
> Hello list folks,
>
> Since I acquired my truck the power steering pump has emitted a rather loud
> whine when under load. This whine is apparent when at idle and not under a
> load as well. I dismissed this noise over the last couple of years, but it
> is now getting on my nerves. I have changed the serpentine belt with no
> effect on this noise. The power steering works fine and does not leak a
> drop. I have heard this whine from other 1994 F-series trucks and figured
> this pump is just loud. Is there anything I can do to remedy this noise?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jerry Hinkle Jr. CPA
> "RULEMAKER" 94 F-350 Crew Cab 4x4
> http://www.ford-trucks.com/pictorial/big/1994_f350_1.html
> "LTS-ROK" 80 JEEP CJ-5
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> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:06:12 -0400
From: "Phil / Debi"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - PS whine

> Gerald writes: >>Since I acquired my truck the power steering pump has
emitted
> a rather loud
> whine when under load. >

My 91 has had that whine starting at 50,000 miles and at 175,000 it still
whines, but works fine.

> Try loosening the PS belt. The most common destroyer of PS pumps is
tightening
> the belt too tight. It is not an alternator, so needs only to be tight
enough
> to prevent slippage under load. Loosen it until you have belt squeaking
while
> turning, then tighten it just slightly until slippage stops.
>
> Let us know if it works.

Dont know about his truck, but mine has serpentine belt, no adjustments as
far as I know.

Phil Beattie
66 F100 390 C6
79 F250 4x4
91 F150 4x4

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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:06:18 PDT
From: "J. Kevin Beck"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Captain Chairs in 93 F150

I just purchased a 1993 F150 S/C 4x4 and it has captain chairs. The front
seat doesn't say put when slide forward, instead it keeps sliding towards
the rear when on the slighest up slope. Should these have a latch or spring
that holds them in the forward position when getting into the rear seat?

Does anyone have any experience with the rear seat lift kits? How do they
like them?

TIA

Kevin Beck
jkevinbeck hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:34:11 -0700
From: "Radoje Spasojevic"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Captain Chairs in 93 F150

I keep fighting with the seat on my Bronco, which is the same way. It is
really irritating when I am trying to load something in the back and the
seat slides back and hits my knee. Anyway I have been trying to fix up some
sort of spring but I haven't had much luck.

Rade Spasojevic -- rspasoje mindspring.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.off -road. com /~2big/
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=194
- -Rubicon Tested-
- -----Original Message-----
From: J. Kevin Beck
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 10:06 PM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Captain Chairs in 93 F150


>I just purchased a 1993 F150 S/C 4x4 and it has captain chairs. The front
>seat doesn't say put when slide forward, instead it keeps sliding towards....


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