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Subject: 80-96-list-digest V3 #265
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80-96-list-digest Wednesday, September 22 1999 Volume 03 : Number 265



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - Shift Kits
Re: FTE 80-96 - exhaust manifolds
FTE 80-96 - Door Panels
FTE 80-96 - Chevron Techron
RE: FTE 80-96 - Shift Kits
FTE 80-96 - 95 pwr-stroke & E4OD questions
FTE 80-96 - idle lope
RE: FTE 80-96 - idle lope
FTE 80-96 - engine noise during strain
FTE 80-96 - squeaks
FTE 80-96 - any owners of a 84 F150, 302 V8?
FTE 80-96 - rotors
FTE 80-96 - Main bearing replacement
Re: FTE 80-96 - 95 pwr-stroke & E4OD questions
[none]
FTE 80-96 - Shocks
FTE 80-96 - RE:
FTE 80-96 - engine swap for 19990 F-150
FTE 80-96 - 3.55 to 4.10
Re: FTE 80-96 - Shocks
Re: FTE 80-96 - 3.55 to 4.10
FTE 80-96 - engine noise during strain
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Ford Truck Enthusiasts post
Re: FTE 80-96 - Shift Kits
Re: FTE 80-96 - idle lope
Re: FTE 80-96 - engine swap for 19990 F-150
FTE 80-96 - RE: Squeaky door panels
[none]
Re: FTE 80-96 - RE: Squeaky door panels
FTE 80-96 - Cowl removal
FTE 80-96 - Re:
Re: FTE 80-96 - Rivets Vs Bolts

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:29:30 EDT
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Shift Kits


area and I've seen a shift controller (in Jegs) that goes inline on the
wiring harness allowing you to change firmness on the fly. Has anyone had
any experience with this thing?>>
Gang,
Any shift kit which electronically controls the shifting may or may not harm
the tranny. All these things do is to up the line pressure in the tranny to
cause the shifts to be firmer, hence making you feel performance. I have seen
more often than not that these shift improvers cause internal component
damage to the electronically shifted trannies. By the way, the 1990 models
came with the AOD, not the AODE so the plug in kit wont work. Check out
level10.com, artcarr.com, or any other tranny company. They all have valve
body kits for the AOD.
Later
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC

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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:33:51 -0400
From: "Matt Fitzsimmons"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - exhaust manifolds

My '72 didn't crack the manifolds, neither did the '76 or the '82. The '88
on the other hand did.
My understanding is that this was a supplier problem (wrong alloy) that
didn't appear untill several years into production. The manifolds from the
'82 and the '88 looked exactly the same.
My '95 now has steel headers, just in case.


- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - exhaust manifolds


> every Ford 302 I have ever owned has cracked the exhaust manifold. Ford
never
> got the design correct after 20 years.
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:53:45 -0400
From: wkelly
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Door Panels

Drummond American manufactures a product Black Magic which is a Dry Moly
Lubricant. It comes in an aerosol spray can and dries within seconds of
application. This product does not attract any dirt because it is dry.
It resembles graphite when looking at it but works very well. I tried
it on the slides for my front disc brakes and they have not stuck and
worn the outside pad since.

Bill Kelly
Pleasantville, Pa.


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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:55:14 -0500
From: "Ferino, Chris"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Chevron Techron

"Mike,
I use a Chevron product called Techron, which is what I think you are
referring to. I got onto it a year or two ago when an automotive repair
column in the St. Louis paper mentioned it as being especially good for
cleaning valve stems. I get it at Walmart, but I have seen it at Autozone,
also. It is usually stocked amidst the injector and carburetor cleaners. Be
prepared for a little sticker shock, compared to the others.
Ed"

As an alternative, I've seen this offered in some of the automotive
magazines at a discount if you purchase quantities of 6/12/etc. There are
also some sites on the internet that sell quantities.
Might be worth checking out to save yourself a few bucks.
- --chris
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:40:21 -0400
From: Brad DeFore
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Shift Kits

Thanks for the warning Wayne, and as for the AOD/AODE from what I have
researched trying to find out which one I have it was stated that the AODE
had an electric push button on the dash to engage overdrive and had the
markings 1, 2, D on the shifter console. Is this wrong? I was told that the
engine/transmission had been factory replaced (due to an error on the
dealership mechanics) in "92". Would they have installed the dash switch
then? Is there some numbers or ID plate located on the tranny itself that I
could verify? It's only got 89 thousand on it so I'm ready for a filter
change anyway and really would like to verify the tranny and also the motor
years. Thanks in advance.


"90" F150 5.8 4x4
Brad DeFore
BDeFore ComputerLogic.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: FLR150 aol.com [SMTP:FLR150 aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 7:30 AM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Shift Kits


area and I've seen a shift controller (in Jegs) that goes inline on the
wiring harness allowing you to change firmness on the fly. Has anyone had
any experience with this thing?>>
Gang,
Any shift kit which electronically controls the shifting may or may not
harm
the tranny. All these things do is to up the line pressure in the tranny to
cause the shifts to be firmer, hence making you feel performance. I have
seen
more often than not that these shift improvers cause internal component
damage to the electronically shifted trannies. By the way, the 1990 models
came with the AOD, not the AODE so the plug in kit wont work. Check out
level10.com, artcarr.com, or any other tranny company. They all have valve
body kits for the AOD.
Later
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:30:28 EDT
From: Apfred aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 95 pwr-stroke & E4OD questions

I've heard that the E4OD transmission as used in my 95 F-350 with the
power-stroke diesel was not very reliable early on, but was modified in later
applications to overcome the problem -- whatever it was. I've got nearly
100k miles on mine without any sign of a problem. I'd like to know how to
tell if mine is a "before" or "after" version -- the truck was built in 9/94.
Also considering installing the Banks PowerPack -- anyone have any direct
experience with it? And, what is the concensus on power-stroke longevity?
Thanks.
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:51:26 -0700
From: "Dennis"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - idle lope

Recently purchased a 1989 F250 4x4 XLT lariat extended cab truck. Has FI
351W and 3 speed automatic, and 66,000 miles.
The truck runs great except at an idle. Seems to have a hard time finding
its rythym, in other words the idle speed goes up and down until you rev it
just right then it will smoothout. It also feels like it is missing at an
idle when it is not loping, any ideas? I have replaced the plug wires,
plugs, cap, rotor, fuel filter, cleaned the pcv. Also i noticed the
condensor(what is the purpose on elec. ign.) wire is broken.
Hand held code scanner returns a 33, apparently indicating egr problems,
sensor checks out OK.

Dennis


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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:17:11 -0400
From: Dave Heverin
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - idle lope

Dennis,

Been there, done that..... I have been getting the same code for almost 10
years on my 88' F150 (302/AOD4).

The suggestions for a fix have been:

1. Buy a new EGR from FORD. The OEM unit is thought to be better.

2. Check/replace the vacuum lines to and from the EGR valve.

3. Clean the tube that the EGR valve is mounted to....it may be fouled with
carbon.

Don't know if this has been helpful. Maybe some others will know what the
problem is...

Dave




Hand held code scanner returns a 33, apparently indicating egr problems,
sensor checks out OK.

Dennis


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:26:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Victor L Moran
Subject: FTE 80-96 - engine noise during strain

When I am climbing up a hill or quickly accelerating in my 87 aerostar, I
am hearing a noise that I've heard from old car engines before. It sounds
like something is loose and rattling inside the engine itself. It only
happens when I am putting strain on the engine.
For example I was climbing a hill in NJ on monday at 65. When I heard the
noise, I slowed to 55 and came out of overdrive. Then the noise was gone.
During the same trip I heard the noise a couple of times when I
accelerated quickly.
Is this the famous 'lifter noise' that I hear so much about?

And more importantly, how do I fix it?

This is the 3 liter v-6 engine.

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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:21:32 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - squeaks

Chris writes: >>I would like to know what some of you are doing to
alleviate the squeaking that occurs between the door
panels and the door. My door panels seem to squeak,
more like a rubbing sound, from where the door panel
meets up with the painted surface of the door metal.
It's especially bad if you happen to rest your knee
against the door.
Seems like as soon as you take the panels off they are
prone to squeaking, had to pull them off for speaker
replacements.

While you have the panel off, run a small bead of silicone around the edge where
the rubbing is occuring. Let dry before installing. This should act as a
rubber gasket and eliminate the squeak.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:34:45 EDT
From: Solidtop1 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - any owners of a 84 F150, 302 V8?

Any one have a 1984 F150 with auto trans and 302 V8? I am going to buy one,
what kind of things should I watch out for that can go wrong with this truck?


thanks
Ken M
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:18:12 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - rotors

Waddell writes: >>Whats the difference between trk and car rotors? Will they
interchange?

Different bolt patterns for the wheels, so no, they won't
interchange....Probably different diameters also, but I'm not sure of this..

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:28:49 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Main bearing replacement

Doc writes: >>I've got some oil pump/pickup tube problems with my 84 F-150
(351W). This
weekend I'll be dropping the pan to correct. Got to thinking this morning
that while I'm in there I might as well replace the main bearings (she's got
about 200K on her). I've noticed a little noise lately and the oil pressure
ain't what it use to be. Will a quick replacement add a few more miles
until the inevitable rebuild, or am I wasting my time? Any thoughts?

Never done it on a 302, but have done it on 351M's , 429, and several various
FE's. Rings tend to hold their seal longer than bearings seem to last for me,
so I recommend it. Be sure to also replace the rear main seal, if it is early
model that is replaceable from under the pan.(some rear main seals are replaced
from the rear - have to remove the tranny and flywheel).

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:55:36 EDT
From: CMYRED1 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 95 pwr-stroke & E4OD questions

I have 2 of them things (f450),nothing but trouble! They last about 10-14
mo. at the best. I haul 24 ft gooseneck with about 20k lb. every day. just
had I do yesterday.
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:45:53 PDT
From: "Michael Surette"
Subject: [none]

Fellow list members,

I have a 1996 F-150 Eddie Bauer Edition truck, 4x4, automatic, K&N air
filter.

I see how helpful this group is to ford truck owners. I have a few
questions and hopefully someone might be familiar with my problems (they
are just small things that i prefer to get rid of).

1. I will be getting a 2.5" suspension lift and either a 2" or 3" body lift
together. Because I have to order my tires ahead of time I wanted to get
the right size so there wouldn't be any trouble. Does anyone know from
experience the largest tire i can fit with those combination lifts. I
prefer a wide track tire at least 10" wide. No one at the tire places
around here know how big I can go. I had 33" tires on my old F-150 2wd with
just a 3" body lift. The tire guys tell me i can only go that big know. I
believe i can get a 35"x12"x16" tire with my lifts. Does anyone know?

2. Does anyone else get a green fluid coming out of their tailpipe. It
definately isn't a head gasket because the dealer checked it out with a
compression test, and my coolant level has been the same for the past year
when i first noticed the fluid. It originates from in front of the muffler
because the muffler drips the same fluid. This fluid stops when the truck
gets warmed up. Does this have something to do with the cat? Is there a
way to prevent this from occurring.

3. I also get a vibration when my truck wants to get into a higher gear.
Adding a little gas makes the vibration worse. I have to almost floor it to
upshift to the next gear and make the vibration go away. Engine mounts are
ok. Dealer says the transmission is also ok. Has anyone had the same
problem?

4. Finally, when i brake and turn, especially in reverse, i get a popping
sound from the rear of my frame. There is a TSB on this, but everywhere i
look, there is a charge to get information on the TSB. I was hoping someone
might have had this problem and know what the root of it is.

I apologize for being so long with such minor problems. Any help is greatly
appreciated.

Mike
Abingdon, MD

______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:21:49 -0700
From: "Davies, Don"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Shocks

I need to replace the rear shocks on my '95 Bronco - I do a fair amount of 4
wheeling so I will be looking for "stiff" or heavy duty type shocks - does
anyone have a suggestion for a manufacturer with a good product ?
don.davies techgrp.com

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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:27:41 -0400
From: Dave Heverin
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE:

Mike,

Which engine/transmission combination do you have? How many miles do you
have on the drive train. On my 88' F150 with an AOD4 transmission I had a
similar problem. The fix was a transmission rebuild.

Dave
Bel Air, MD



- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Surette [mailto:budsurette hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 2:46 PM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject:


Fellow list members,

I have a 1996 F-150 Eddie Bauer Edition truck, 4x4, automatic, K&N air
filter.

3. I also get a vibration when my truck wants to get into a higher gear.
Adding a little gas makes the vibration worse. I have to almost floor it to

upshift to the next gear and make the vibration go away. Engine mounts are
ok. Dealer says the transmission is also ok. Has anyone had the same
problem?


Mike
Abingdon, MD

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:28:02 PDT
From: 2insane excite.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - engine swap for 19990 F-150

___________________________________________________
And there are a ton of products out there to boost
the HP and torque on a 302.
- ------------------------------------------------

I thought tha most parts for a 302 were able to swapped to a 351 except for
the intake. What kind of products are out there to actually put more power
on it? Most basic things like k&n and exhuast can be done on most about
everything. ACTUAL performance gain from this stuff probably won't be much i
would think at least. unless your talking about higher compression heads or
something like that. i've been thinking about selling my 302 for a 351 but
am waiting due to money since i would most likely have someone do it for me
as I am not the most mechanically inclined.

I just got a FORD decal for my windshield. Looks pretty cool.
electrostacally charged(sticks to windows). seems like i'm having to stand
up more to fords now since people see it and mess with me. :-) it's fun
though.





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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:37:04 PDT
From: 2insane excite.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 3.55 to 4.10

Just checking my thinking here. I got 3.55 limited slip now, and wanted to
go to 4.10 limited slip. With this change(as mula permits) i would have more
get up and go but wouldn't end up going as fast with my 3.55. correct? After
this i would get 31x10.5 bfgoodrich AT i think. then i should get pretty
close to the faster speed back right? i would have to switch the front one
too since its a 4x4?
stupid questions from a stupid person. :-(
thanks for the info.




________________________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:01:26 -0700
From: Bob Kennedy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Shocks

Cepek. I'm running the 77s with a 6" lift and 36" tires.

Bob


"Davies, Don" wrote:

> I need to replace the rear shocks on my '95 Bronco - I do a fair amount of 4
> wheeling so I will be looking for "stiff" or heavy duty type shocks - does
> anyone have a suggestion for a manufacturer with a good product ?
> don.davies techgrp.com
>
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:52:40 -0700
From: Bob Kennedy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 3.55 to 4.10

2insane excite.com wrote:

> Just checking my thinking here. I got 3.55 limited slip now, and wanted to
> go to 4.10 limited slip. With this change(as mula permits) i would have more
> get up and go but wouldn't end up going as fast with my 3.55. correct?

It changes the RPM range back to a higher one, hence a little more power, it
puts you back in the power band for your engine/transmission.

> After
> this i would get 31x10.5 bfgoodrich AT i think. then i should get pretty
> close to the faster speed back right?

Again, speed has nothing to do with it.

> i would have to switch the front one
> too since its a 4x4?

You'll need to do the front, or you'll end up with some bind and possibly some
damage.
Also, the front carrier has to be replaced at the 3.92 gear ratio.

>
> stupid questions from a stupid person. :-(
> thanks for the info.




>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://voicemail.excite.com
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> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

Bob


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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:13:51 -0700
From: "slik"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - engine noise during strain

I just got rid of my Aerostar. I didn't have it long and I didn't like it.
The noise under strain is more than likely the pinging. Mine did the same
thing and rather than mess with figuring out how to properly tune the thing,
I dumped in 93 octane gas. Eliminated the ping. It also helps if you take
it out of OD and just use 3rd, but I could still use the OD with the 93 gas.

Slik
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Victor L Moran
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 8:26 AM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - engine noise during strain


>
> When I am climbing up a hill or quickly accelerating in my 87 aerostar, I
> am hearing a noise that I've heard from old car engines before. It sounds
> like something is loose and rattling inside the engine itself. It only
> happens when I am putting strain on the engine.
> For example I was climbing a hill in NJ on monday at 65. When I heard the
> noise, I slowed to 55 and came out of overdrive. Then the noise was gone.
> During the same trip I heard the noise a couple of times when I
> accelerated quickly.
> Is this the famous 'lifter noise' that I hear so much about?
>
> And more importantly, how do I fix it?
>
> This is the 3 liter v-6 engine.
>


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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:44:26 EDT
From: Spruce1495 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Ford Truck Enthusiasts post

Just Ford boats !!!!!
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:11:19 EDT
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Shift Kits

Brad,
Basically the only way I know figure out what it is, is by the door sticker.
If they replaced it in '92 then they may have replaced the door sticker. If
the tranny code is a "U" then it is an AODE. I believe that they did have the
OD off button on the dash fist, then transferred the button to the tranny
stalk in later years.
Hope I have helped,
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:12:20 EDT
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - idle lope

Dennis,
Maybe the previous owner installed a performance camshaft?
Just an idea,
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:27:12 EDT
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - engine swap for 19990 F-150

In a message dated 9/21/99 4:37:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
2insane excite.com writes:


the intake. What kind of products are out there to actually put more power
on it? Most basic things like k&n and exhaust can be done on most about
everything. ACTUAL performance gain from this stuff probably won't be much I
would think at least. Unless your talking about higher compression heads or
something like that. I've been thinking about selling my 302 for a 351 but
am waiting due to money since I would most likely have someone do it for me
as I am not the most mechanically inclined.

I just got a FORD decal for my windshield. Looks pretty cool.
Electrostatically charged(sticks to windows). Seems like I'm having to stand
up more to fords now since people see it and mess with me. :-) it's fun
though.




>>
Well, to give you an example....the stock 1994 5.0/302 motor put out a rated
185 rwhp. I have this motor in a 94 F150 Extended Cab Flareside. The weight I
race, yes race, this truck at is right around 5100 lbs. According to the
horsepower calculator website, I am putting out right at 380 horsepower at
the flywheel and 292 at the rear wheels....not too damn shabby If I say so
myself. But the same applies to the 351 Windsor. If i added the same parts to
a 351 I would probably be putting out a little more, it just depends on your
preference.
later
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:13:05 -0500
From: "Dave Harmier"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: Squeaky door panels

I had the Drivers side panel off of Dads '91 F-150 a couple weeks ago to do
the window motor gear thing. I didn't pay much attention to other stuff,
and it rattles.

The Passenger side was off last week for the door lock motor (PITA!!!), and
it got every screw and bolt checked, and a complete set of new (What do you
call those things? Clips?) installed, and that one is tight and squeak
free.

Moral, check everything, and use new holders!

As an aside, on my '92, there are scraps of paper, between the metal and
plastic in a few locations near screws, to stop JUST such a squeak.

And to Roy H., It is so fine to walk out of the house and not be sweating
before I get in the truck!

Dave H.
Houston, TX
'92 F-150 Mine
'91 F-150 Mine to Fix
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:33:06 PDT
From: "ken haley"
Subject: [none]

I have an 83 Bronco, 302, 4speed OD. The rear axle is trashed. Since the 8.8
is marginal even in lightweight Mustangs, I'd prefer to install a 9 inch.
Which F150 9 inch rear axles will bolt in? Anyone know sure?

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:42:28 -0500
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - RE: Squeaky door panels

At 22:13 21/09/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>And to Roy H., It is so fine to walk out of the house and not be sweating
>before I get in the truck!
>
>Dave H.
>Houston, TX
>'92 F-150 Mine

I had to grab a sweater the other morning because it was down to 65 degrees!

The truck loved it!


Jim Cannon
Houston, TX
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton '63 Buick Riviera 401 V-8
'80 Ford F-150 300 I-6 2WD
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:37:46 -0700
From: "J.S.H."
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Cowl removal

>With a hose I found it's not the windshield, but instead something >under the cowl grill. I know there are drains in there, which seem to >be working.

>I'm going to pull the wiper blades, remove the grill, and poke around. >I'd
>appreciate any advice on whether there's an obvious place to look for
>problem.

Can't help you with the leak but I recently did a wiper nmotor on my 84.
Had to unbolt the rear most hinges on the hood and lay the hood forward
to get the cowl off.No big deal but not a one man job.
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:29:31 -0700
From: "Radoje Spasojevic"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re:

Ummm, the 8.8" is marginal for what? Last week there were two of us with
lockers in our 8.8"s doing the Rubicon and we had no problems whatsoever.
It takes alot of money to make a 9" significantly stronger than an 8.8"
IMHO. I have seen people run 35" and 36" tires HARD with an 8.8" rear end
with no failures yet.

Rade
- -----Original Message-----
From: ken haley
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 8:33 PM


>I have an 83 Bronco, 302, 4speed OD. The rear axle is trashed. Since the
8.8
>is marginal even in lightweight Mustangs, I'd prefer to install a 9 inch.
>Which F150 9 inch rear axles will bolt in? Anyone know sure?
>
>______________________________________________________
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:48:32 +1000
From: les williams
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Rivets Vs Bolts

Hi Eric and everyone else,

I'm as cynical as the next person when it comes to costs and auto
manufacturing. I believe that rivets are used because:
1. Their Cheap
2. Don't cost much
3. Easy to manufacture & install - ease of repair does not come into
Fords cost equation.
If it's a paid job, and the customer doesn't care, know, hasn't got the
money, just do the bushes, drilling out and replacing the rivets is going to
take more than 35-40 mins. to do it properly. If your doing the job on you
truck, in your good time, then the above doesn't apply.
I would love to see the sequence of events of a F series chassis being
manufactured. It would probably explain why the radius chassis support as
both rivets and bolts used. ( Hint: maybe someone on this list ? done the
tourist thing ? thru the factory ? )
My opinion is to replace the rivets with minimum grade 8 High Tensile
bolts & nuts. Use a drill size that makes the bolt body (not the thread ) a
nylon/copper hammer tap in fit so it's not just relying on just the torque
of the nut to prevent movement. NOT that 3/4" drill you only used once for a
hole in the firewall. At least nuts & bolts can be tightened and checked,
not so with rivets. Trust in whatever god you believe in, and eyeball rivets
for that tell tail rust stain that indicates chassis/rivet movement, and
I'm sure you don't have to be told how much an F chassis twists in just
normal road use.
Down here in Oz where a lot of F's have Roo Bars fitted, just watch the
hood rock & roll one way and the 'Bar twist the opposite direction driving
over gutters, speed bumps, (Korean manufactured 2 door cars) etc. Scarrry!!!

The other one of many reasons for my cynicism, is that for close to 30
years the Ford Falcon car has three rivets holding the front top ball joint
to the top arm, and for close to 30 years Ford insisted in riveting those
suckers in from new. The replacement joint Both Ford & OEM, comes with 3
bolts & nuts. So for close on 30 years mechanics have devised ways and means
of cutting out those rivets, and bolting in the replacement. Suprise,
suprise, that's at the owners expense. No case has been made by Ford or
Transport agencies of the superiority of Bolts V's Rivets. If a case for
replacing the arm could be proven, Ford would be very happy, I'm sure, to
sell a $150 part over a $30 bolt in balljoint. I would much prefer to be in
a truck and drop the radius rod Chassis mount than in a car and drop the top
balljoint!!
In normal sane sensible usage, if it's of any consolation, serious front
end parts failure usually happen at parking speeds, often with hard lock to
lock steering wheel movements involved, not, as most expect, at highway....


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