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Subject: 80-96-list-digest V3 #262
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80-96-list-digest Sunday, September 19 1999 Volume 03 : Number 262



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Gas Mileage
FTE 80-96 - EGR VALVE
Re: FTE 80-96 - Feinstein-Gorton amendment (CAFE standards)
Re: FTE 80-96 - Less posts than usual on Digest???
FTE 80-96 - Re: Take firebells hotmail.com off please!
FTE 80-96 - Re: Gas Mileage
FTE 80-96 - ticking noise
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Gas Mileage
FTE 80-96 - 1990 F150 Temperature Guage
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Gas Mileage

=======================================================================

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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:26:24 -0400
From: "Michael McCarthy"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Gas Mileage

I wanted to add my 2 cents worth regarding better MPG at higher altitudes.
We may have the same issue working on us because my F-150 MPG is equivalent
to yours. The rest of this message is pure speculation.

Do you have a carburetor on your vehicle? I do, and as far as I know the
only altitude sensor on my F-150 is on the carburetor. Some folks think that
the MAP sensor senses altitude changes but that just ain't so. The MAP
sensor senses the Manifold Absolute Pressure in the intake manifold. The
absolute pressure in the manifold will change with engine load. The MAP
sensor then sends a signal to the computer to either advance, or retard the
spark, as required for the current driving condition. (I.e. - changes in the
load on the engine)
The point is that I can not find any active connection between my carb and
the emission control system that regulates fuel flow . As I said, this is
speculative on my part but I have looked for some connection between the
emissions control system and my carb that would change the air / fuel
mixture. It doesn't exist as far as I can tell. The air feed is regulated by
the choke and the heated air intake when the engine is cold but nothing
adjusts the fuel feed. That would indicate to me that if I have set the
carburetor rich it will stay rich no matter what driving conditions I am in,
except altitude.
I am only guessing but I bet the altitude sensor on the carburetor restricts
the flow of fuel to the carburetor at higher altitudes to compensate for the
thinner (less) air conditions. The fuel / air mixture adjustment on the
carburetor only adjusts the air intake, not the fuel, so basically the
carburetor sends fuel to the engine through a jet of predetermined size and
we adjust the air intake for the proper fuel/air mixture. The fuel just
continues to flow at a predetermined rate which is probably way too much at
any given accelerator position. I wonder if changing the jet size in the
carb would change the MPG in the flatlands. However, you might just be
screwed at high altitudes.
I wonder if any of this makes sense to anyone but me.

Michael McCarthy
Export, PA

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ed Mount
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Gas Mileage


>Walt, maybe you are the guy to answer my question. I have been running
back
>and forth from Missouri to Colorado for the past two years. Every time I
>get out there in the higher elevations (9000-12000 ft.) my gas mileage on
my
>f150 5.8liter 4X4 goes up, sometimes as high as 17.5 mpg. Here in the
>flatlands I do good to maintain 13mpg. Nobody seems to know why that
>happens. Did you observe that in your truck when you lived out there?
>I am theorizing that maybe my O2 sensor is acting funny. Does that make
>sense? The speed limit doesn't have anything to do with it on mine, I have
>tried driving 55-60, still gets a boring 13 mpg.
>
>Ed
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joan and Walt Posluszny
>To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
>Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 5:52 PM
>Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Gas Mileage
>
>
>|Michael, I too have an 85, mine is 4x4 long bed reg cab, 351W-2V, 4 Spd
>|manual O.D., stock limited slips(front & rear) 3.50 RAR, 31x10.5x15's, K&N
>|filter and Jacobs Mileage master, all else stock and I average 13.5 in
>mixed
>|driving. Do not know what straight highway mileage would be. When I lived
>|in Colorado (5280ft) and traveled between Casper and Denver twice a month
I
>|got 17 mpg consistently but that was 14 years ago when the speed limit was
>|55. Not now. Walt
>|
>|[snip]
>|> The truck is a stock I6-300 for 1985. AOD(?) automatic transmission and
I
>|> have no idea about the rear end. Standard tires 15". I haven't modified
>the
>|> truck at all really. Probably should given the mileage I get. I think
>it's
>|> all the emission stuff. Soem of it looks pretty loose and it might fall
>off
>|> some day, who knows?
>|>
>|> Michael McCarthy
>|> Export, PA
>|== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>|
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:48:05 -0500
From: "ROB SARTORIUS"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - EGR VALVE

Just replacing the EGR valve may not correct the problem because the EGR is
controlled by the EGRV/EGRC solenoids which actually control how the valve
works. IF the solenoids or the vacuum lines to and from the EGR are bad,
then the reading will occur that the EGR is not working properly. I have
just finished had rewiring my 1984 f-150 XLT ExtCab 351 2bbl and
know the frustration of the EGR system not operating. If you have further
questions, e-mail me.

ROB SARTORIUS
EDMOND, OK



Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:12:23 -0400
From: Dave Heverin
Subject: [none]

I have an old problem that I hope one of you can provide one of you can
provide an explanation for...

I have an 88' F150 (302ci w/AOD transmission). For the last 160,000 miles
the check engine light has flashed. More so in cool weather than hot. I
have used a hand-held code reader and it said that the EGR valve was not
working properly. So, I replaced it with an aftermarket unit I purchased at
PEP BOYS. The problem came back about a week later, so I took it to my Ford
dealer and they said that it needed an EGR valve. I said "no, thank you I
just put a new one on a week ago...". I have replaced the O2 sensor also,
but no change. The mileage is around 13.5mpg and the engine feels very
weak.

Could the lack of power be a timing issue? If so, can the timing be
adjusted on this engine. It has the EEC-IV computer system. Is the timing
adjustment something that can be adjusted by an average person? What tools
are needed?

Thanks for any help.

Dave
88' F150
92' Sable


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:52:49 EDT
From: "Brian Bell"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Feinstein-Gorton amendment (CAFE standards)

Please take me off of your mailing list.

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:53:30 EDT
From: "Brian Bell"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Less posts than usual on Digest???

Please take me off of your mailing list.

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:54:39 EDT
From: "Brian Bell"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Take firebells hotmail.com off please!

Please take me off of your mailing list.

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:21:15 -0700
From: "Joan and Walt Posluszny"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Gas Mileage

Ed,

I have experienced exactly what you have. The higher I would go the better
the mileage. I attribute it to the computer automatically adjusting for
altitude by increasing the timing and leaning out the mixture. My mileage
would go up but my power went down. The computer could do a lot of things
but couldn't push more air in. For vehicles with computers this is not
unusual in higher altitudes. If you are frustrated with the lack of power
and have your foot floored all the time which some people do, you'll never
see the mileage increase. Sounds like you still drive the same way at any
altitude hence you experience the mileage increase. I liver there for almost
tem years so I got used to it. My rig is an 85 with a Feedback 2V carb and
I bought it in Denver new so at the time it had a High Altitude Carb on it.
Basically a different type of feedback solenoid on the back of the carb. My
truck has no knock sensors , it's not that sophisticated. One of the last
years of a carb so it's a mess under the hood. I doubt your pinging at
altitude. If anything some vehicles usually run slightly richer at
altitude. Don't know what year your is. Sorry for the long reply but what
you are experiencing in NORMAL. My mileage went way down when I moved to
sea level but my power went noticeably up. Enjoy! Walt

P.S. Had to replace that Feedback Control Solenoid once because it ran lean
and pinged all the time as well was giving an ALWAYS LEAN code from he
computer.

> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:49:31 -0500
> From: "Ed Mount"
> Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Gas Mileage
>
> Walt, maybe you are the guy to answer my question. I have been running back
> and forth from Missouri to Colorado for the past two years. Every time I
> get out there in the higher elevations (9000-12000 ft.) my gas mileage on my
> f150 5.8liter 4X4 goes up, sometimes as high as 17.5 mpg. Here in the
> flatlands I do good to maintain 13mpg. Nobody seems to know why that
> happens. Did you observe that in your truck when you lived out there?
> I am theorizing that maybe my O2 sensor is acting funny. Does that make
> sense? The speed limit doesn't have anything to do with it on mine, I have
> tried driving 55-60, still gets a boring 13 mpg.
>
> Ed
>
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:27:06 EDT
From: craig n eggerman
Subject: FTE 80-96 - ticking noise

The ticking noise on an exhaust leak usually is loudest when the engine
is cold then dissipates as the engine and exhaust heat up. Injector
ticking is constant. Valve tapping is loud at first then quiet as they
are covered in thick cold oil then loud again as the oil thins out. The
passenger side noise sounds like an exhaust problem. What does not fit is
the sequence of getting louder as the engine heats up with an exhaust
leak. Get a stethoscope with a long tube and you should be able to find
the exact source of the noise.

Craig
Eggerman juno.com
Casper,Wyoming
O|||||O

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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:19:03 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Gas Mileage

>At 10:03 PM 9/17/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>The knock sensors work very fast and they sense vibration in the engine
>and dial back the timing until the vibration stops, you won't know it
>happened.
>I kicked mine by cleaning out the combustion chambers with a couple of
>cans of Techroline and then I used a higher octane gas. The gas mileage
>jumped way up and the engine operating temp went down a little.
>
>Since then I use a can of Techroline every 3 months.
>
>Mike
>

What is Techroline and what does it do?

Is it possible for the knock sensor to cause a stumble when it retards the
spark, such as on a hard pull up a hill? Not a missfire, but just a
noticable feeling.


Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
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http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:15:50 -0700
From: "John O. Tulloch"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 1990 F150 Temperature Guage

Good Day,
I have a 1990 Ford 150. My Coolant temperature guage has become
intermittant. Most of the time it reads no temperature, but when it does it
reads very low temps. Any ideas on how to fix this?

John


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
John O. Tulloch

email: jtulloch ups.edu
web: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://asups.ups.edu/~jtulloch

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your
country"
-President John F. Kennedy
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:44:41 -0500
From: Mike Persell
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Gas Mileage

At 10:19 PM 9/18/99 -0500, you wrote:

>What is Techroline and what does it do?

Chevron's combustion chamber and valve stem cleaner. Works for injected or
carb engines.

>Is it possible for the knock sensor to cause a stumble when it retards the
>spark, such as on a hard pull up a hill? Not a missfire, but just a
>noticable feeling.

It is possible, I think the other sensors would have to be a little out
of adjustment for it to be noticeable. If the EGR solenoids and the....


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