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Subject: 80-96-list-digest V3 #249
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80-96-list-digest Monday, September 6 1999 Volume 03 : Number 249



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - Test- I think two previous posts didn't hit the list.
FTE 80-96 - synthetic oils
ADMIN: Re: FTE 80-96 - Off subject...Microsoft vs. AOL
Re: FTE 80-96 - synthetic oils
FTE 80-96 - Re: Power Steering Box Seal
FTE 80-96 - Cats and Stuff
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Instruments
Re: FTE 80-96 - Cats and Stuff
Re: FTE 80-96 - Cats and Stuff
Re: FTE 80-96 - synthetic oils
Re: FTE 80-96 - synthetic oils

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Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:30:26 -0500
From: "Dave Harmier"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Test- I think two previous posts didn't hit the list.

Since my AOL Instant Messenger is down as well.....

Dave H.
Houston TX
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Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 13:46:59 -0400
From: Peter Wong
Subject: FTE 80-96 - synthetic oils

>>I want to replace the oil with synthetic. I plan to do the engine oil

>>myslef, but will take the truck in for the tranny and transfer case.
I
>>took the truck to a couple of shops, and neither seemed interested in
>>doing this for me. Both tried to talk me out of it, and just wanted
to
>>use spec. oil.

In general, synthetics provide better viscosity, reduced wear, reduced
friction, and lower rates of evaporation than conventional (dino)
petroleum based oils. Synthetics also maintain their chemical structure
much better than conventional oils over longer periods of time. This led
to the belief that synthetics could sustain longer drain periods than
conventional oils - which is true - however, synthetic oils still are
contaminated by blow-by and the by-products of the internal combustion
process (i.e., for engine oils), therefore synthetic oils must still be
replaced under regular maintenance intervals just like dino oil.

Note that many auto and truck manufactures do not recommend synthetics
during the normal break-in period for new vehicles, since the reduced
friction provided by synthetics do not allow for proper break-in
conditions. However, once this period is satisfied with conventional
oils a switch to synthetics can be beneficial.

Due to their stable structure, synthetics tend to create some minor
problems for vehicles which have acquired high mileage using
conventional oils (for example, switching to a synthetic motor oil at
90,000 miles after your truck has been fed conventional oil throughout
its life). Many have reported that leaks around gaskets and seals (oil
pans, transmission cases, rear end drive housings) have developed on
their high mileage vehicles after changing to synthetics. Not claiming
to be an expert on this phenomena, this is apparently a combination of
the way gasket material is altered by conventional oils and the
slipperiness of the new synthetics. Beyond this problem, there are no
disadvantages to mechanical components by switching from conventional to
synthetic at this stage of a vehicle's life.

BTW, for those interested in more technical info about motor oils see:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.rconcepts.com/beard/dragnet/drag/oilinfo.html. This article
is a good guide for those wishing to comparie not only conventional and
synthetic oils but also oil brands and viscosity ratings.

Peter Wong
Charlotte, NC

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Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 14:24:24 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: Re: FTE 80-96 - Off subject...Microsoft vs. AOL

If you know a subject is off-topic, why post it?
Crusades concerning who makes what and how Microsoft
stole from Apple who stole from Xerox who stole from
MIT..... well, quite simply, they don't belong here.
If you see an off topic post, don't make it worse by
responding, simply ignore it.


Ken Payne
Admin

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Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 13:42:53 -0500
From: Mike Persell
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - synthetic oils

Peter Wong wrote:
>
> Due to their stable structure, synthetics tend to create some minor
> problems for vehicles which have acquired high mileage using
> conventional oils (for example, switching to a synthetic motor oil at
> 90,000 miles after your truck has been fed conventional oil throughout
> its life). Many have reported that leaks around gaskets and seals (oil
> pans, transmission cases, rear end drive housings) have developed on
> their high mileage vehicles after changing to synthetics. Not claiming
> to be an expert on this phenomena, this is apparently a combination of
> the way gasket material is altered by conventional oils and the
> slipperiness of the new synthetics. Beyond this problem, there are no
> disadvantages to mechanical components by switching from conventional to
> synthetic at this stage of a vehicle's life.

The base stocks of AMSOIL, NEO and some others are diesters which are
extremely potent detergents and they tend to scrub the deposits out of
an older engines seals and gaskets and the gaskets actually begin to
shrink. Mobil 1 has such good penetrating ability that it loosens and
begins
to dissolve deposits around the engine and can cause leaks or worse, it
will redeposit the loosened material in the bottom of the pan and
obstruct
oil pickup.

> BTW, for those interested in more technical info about motor oils see:
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.rconcepts.com/beard/dragnet/drag/oilinfo.html. This article
> is a good guide for those wishing to comparie not only conventional and
> synthetic oils but also oil brands and viscosity ratings.

A pretty good chart. The Flash is the point at which the oil burns under
a process called a Cleveland Open Cup Test. The higher the flash point
the less oil the engine will burn under normal conditions, but remember
the biggest cause of oil consumption is old oil.

The VI number is Viscosity Index. In the early days of the 1970s a VI
of 100 was considered a good starting point. If you drive in heated
conditions, like us Texas folks, you want both a high flash point and
a high VI number. If you drive under extreme loads you want a high
VI to help the oil maintain its consistancy and not shear (move away
from
the bearings under pressure).

Pour is the point at which the oil will not pour out of the can or
bottle
and you should add at least 10 deg to make up for tolerances in an
engine
and eventual contamination. If you live in an area that has cold winters
the pour point becomes very important. Nearly 80% of the wear suffered
by an engine takes place in the first few seconds after startup.

If you look closely at the chart you'll see that the most advertised
oils don't necessarily have the best results. Another point in the
chart and also addressed in the article was zinc. Here's a simple
rule about zinc...the higher the zinc, the more you'll wear out cams
and lifters. Ford actually has bulletins dating back to the early 70s
connecting cam failures with high zinc oils.

Mike
85 F-150 302
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Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:54:02 -0400
From: "Mark Salvetti"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Power Steering Box Seal

Dave, as far as using a screw to get the sector shaft seal out, having just
gone through this I don't see how it would work.

On my truck, the first seal behind the circlip was the dust seal, which is a
fairly thick metal washer covered with a thin layer of rubber. I don't see
how you'd easily get a screw into it.

It was either Greg Carter or RiTruckGuy (Dave?) who suggested going in from
the top. I took the two bolts off the top cover, tapped the sector shaft
lightly from underneath with a block of wood, and out everything came. Now
it's real easy to get at the lower seals.

For me the toughest part of the whole job was getting the Pitman arm
separated from the tie rod and the sector shaft. I used tools borrowed from
AutoZone. And then I used a large socket (32mm, I think) to drive the new
seals into place.

Thanks again to everyone for their help on this repair.

Mark Salvetti
1986 F150 2WD



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Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:30:04 PDT
From: 2insane excite.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Cats and Stuff

Thanx for the info, even if there was mixed opinions about it. ?cleaner air
and a $10,000 fine by pulling them off? hmmmm. my friend pulled off his back
one and the exhaust is dumping out there. he never had no problems. I don't
think we have smog testing here(?MI and a unknowledgable 17 year old?) so I
guess i could get away with none on. then thinking of throwing on a 2
chamber flowmaster with a 3 inch pipe out stock location. maybe a tip too
depending on how that sounds.
Is there a easy way to pull of the boots while changing spark plugs? Did
that today. old ones were gapped more than 42 to 46. new ones gapped to 44.
everything was burning good though. :-) had to get out pliers to take some
off. one got ripped in half :-( electrical tape solved the problem for now.
probably going to need new wires soon now. Any recommandations for this?
checked air filter too. does the PCV air filter in there need to be changed
too? it not's looking too clean and am not too sure that it will help
anything if it is changed.




________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:30:42 -0400
From: "Troy"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Instruments

On 4 Sep 99, at 22:34, Kevin wrote:

>My '85 has the same problem with fuel guage. The rest of the guages are
>fine, but the fuel guage gets squirrely on me. I've only had the truck on
>the road for a week. The guage was on empty, put 5 gallons inat home, and it
>went to full. Drove to the gas station, and it took another 5, and stayed on
>full. Drove 100 miles, and the guage was on 1/4, put 5 miles in and it was
>full again, guage went back up to full. (anyone think i can really get 20
>MPG with a 6 cyl, 4 speed standard with granny, and a 3.08 rear?) I'm really
>confused, it doesn't work irradicaly (sp?), so I don't think its a bad
>voltage regulator. Maybe corroded ground connection at the tank? I'd like to
>take care of this....really gets on my nerves not knowing how much gas I
>have....anyone have ideas?

I am hoping that you receive a response since mine is doing
something similiar to me.

When I turn on the key in the morning, the truck will register how
much gas is in the tank. After driving it for around 10 or 15
minutes, it registers around a quarter less than what is really in the
tank. Say, if it's full it registers around 3/4, if it's 3/4, then it
registers at full.

In a lot of stop a go traffic, it really goes bonkers on me for some
reason, or if I have to make a number of stops in a short period of
time.

I was wondering what might be causing this. I'm at a loss for
solutions.

You might be a redneck if... You buy lard wholesale. - Jeff Foxworthy


Troy Williams
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Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:57:07 -0700
From: "slik"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Cats and Stuff

Use a good dielectric grease and coat the inside of the boot before placing
it over the plug. They'll be a lot easier to pull in the future. You can
get the grease at any auto store or mail order.

Slik

- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 1999 5:30 PM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Cats and Stuff


> Thanx for the info, even if there was mixed opinions about it. ?cleaner
air
> and a $10,000 fine by pulling them off? hmmmm. my friend pulled off his
back
> one and the exhaust is dumping out there. he never had no problems. I
don't
> think we have smog testing here(?MI and a unknowledgable 17 year old?) so
I
> guess i could get away with none on. then thinking of throwing on a 2
> chamber flowmaster with a 3 inch pipe out stock location. maybe a tip too
> depending on how that sounds.
> Is there a easy way to pull of the boots while changing spark plugs? Did
> that today. old ones were gapped more than 42 to 46. new ones gapped to
44.
> everything was burning good though. :-) had to get out pliers to take some
> off. one got ripped in half :-( electrical tape solved the problem for
now.
> probably going to need new wires soon now. Any recommandations for this?
> checked air filter too. does the PCV air filter in there need to be
changed
> too? it not's looking too clean and am not too sure that it will help
> anything if it is changed.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://voicemail.excite.com
> Talk online at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://voicechat.excite.com
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 00:46:29 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Cats and Stuff

>Is there a easy way to pull of the boots while changing spark plugs? Did
>that today. old ones were gapped more than 42 to 46. new ones gapped to 44.
>everything was burning good though. :-) had to get out pliers to take some
>off. one got ripped in half :-( electrical tape solved the problem for now.
>probably going to need new wires soon now. Any recommandations for this?
>checked air filter too. does the PCV air filter in there need to be changed
>too? it not's looking too clean and am not too sure that it will help
>anything if it is changed.

Your tape job might work for awhile, but on damp days you'll find arching
there. Better get some new quality wires. Use the silicone grease as
someone recommended. Get ya a new pcv filter too.


Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:19:51 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - synthetic oils

>BTW, for those interested in more technical info about motor oils see:
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.rconcepts.com/beard/dragnet/drag/oilinfo.html. This article
>is a good guide for those wishing to comparie not only conventional and
>synthetic oils but also oil brands and viscosity ratings.
>

I wonder who put this page together? Sounds like someone pushing
synthetics. I always try to stick to Pennsylvania crude based motor oils as
they have a better molecular structure for lubrication than other
"asphaltic-based" crudes.

Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/oilwell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 01:27:26 -0500
From: Mike Persell
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - synthetic oils

Blake Malkamaki wrote:
>
>
> I wonder who put this page together? Sounds like someone pushing
> synthetics. I always try to stick to Pennsylvania crude based motor oils as
> they have a better molecular structure for lubrication than other
> "asphaltic-based" crudes.

Looked like a page meant for 4 stroke motorcycle oils.

Mid Continent Light or Sweet crudes are really stable too, if they're
refined correctly. Sun does a great job of a combination of vacuum and
solvents to de-asphalt a base stock. Makes for a good all around base....

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