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Subject: 80-96-list-digest V3 #213
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80-96-list-digest Saturday, July 31 1999 Volume 03 : Number 213



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 80-96 - rear fuel tank
FTE 80-96 - RE: 83 Bronco prob.
Re: [Re: FTE 80-96 - 93-96 F150]
Re: FTE 80-96 - Beginner without a clue
FTE 80-96 - Shift on the fly with manual locking hubs....
FTE 80-96 - But wait...
FTE 80-96 - 1988 Bronco Rims For Sale
FTE 80-96 - Re:
Re: FTE 80-96 - Shift on the fly with manual locking hubs....
FTE 80-96 - RE: ballast resistor, igition voltage
FTE 80-96 - Fuel Tank...
FTE 80-96 - fuel tank
Re: FTE 80-96 - fuel tank
FTE 80-96 - Later Model F150s
Re: FTE 80-96 - Later Model F150s
Re: [Re: FTE 80-96 - Later Model F150s]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 06:51:55 -0400
From: "Michael McCarthy"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - rear fuel tank

A little story about gas tanks for the group. Perhaps someone will find it
useful.
I have an 85 F-150 that one day (2 years ago) died in traffic. Fortunately,
I was moving fast enough to coast into a parking lot. I walked home got the
other car, some gasoline and a tool bag. I returned to the truck and removed
the air cleaner for a quick visual inspection. Everything normal. got in the
truck and it started. I jumped in an drove it home. Just as I entered the
driveway it died again. Now starts a 3 week fiasco.
I discover that the truck is not getting any fuel. I check the gas gauge and
sure enough I have 3/4 of a tank of gas on the front tank. To make a long
story short I changed the fuel pump, rebuilt the carb, and did what seemed
like a million other things. No success. The truck sat for 3 weeks and I had
made no progress so I had it towed to the local Ford dealer.
20 minutes later I get a call from the Ford dealer who informs me that they
put gas in the truck and it runs. My comment was bull #*%. I inform him that
I am not that stupid (I'm sure he believed me) and that something else had
to be wrong. $300 later they found nothing. I pay the bill and get my truck
back.
that evening I am driving my wife to the shopping center and the truck dies
again. I knew immediately what the problem was. I called AAA and got $5
worth of gas in the rear tank and the truck started right up.
I got home and confirmed my suspicions. The gauge circuits and the solenoid
that switches tanks are on separate circuits. Which means that you can
switch tanks and the gauge indicates the amount of fuel in the selected tank
but the solenoid may not have switched and you are still trying to get gas
out of the empty tank. Yep, gauge reads full but you are our of gas.
I replaced the solenoid (accompanied by a gasoline shower - yeah I know I
should have drained the tanks first but...) and solved the problem. (BTW - I
called the Ford dealer to let him know that I wasn't as stupid as either of
us thought I was)
Remember....things are not always as they appear.

Michael McCarthy
Export, PA

- -----Original Message-----
From: Andy Norris
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, July 29, 1999 11:29 AM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - rear fuel tank


>
>Jeesh, with all the talk about gas tanks and gas gauges, I'm starting to
>feel a little discouraged. I have an 88 F250 that has two tanks, but the
>rear one doesn't work. The fella I bought it from said "the fuel line may
>be pinched or something." I was foolish and took the "or something" as
>something that might be easy enough to fix... But with everything I'm
>reading on this list, it sounds almost like Ford wasted their time putting
>in a second fuel tank. Maybe they should have just put one tank in that
>would hold 30 gallons or therabouts...
>
>I really wanted to be able to count on being able to use the rear tank,
>then I could make bimonthly payments at the gas station, instead of
>visiting them once a week or more... (over the last 1600 mi. I'm averaging
>10.5 mpg.)
>
>Is there hope out there? Has anyone lost their rear gas tank and fixed it
>or had it fixed and it's still working okay?
>
>I hope I don't get too discouraged. My truck is in the shop right now with
>some bad idling issues. If they can straighten that problem out, the next
>thing on the list is getting the slop taken out of the steering. The fuel
>tank was the third big-ticket item... I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I
>don't get too bummed on Ford trucks too quickly!
>
>Thanks,
>
>Andy Norris
>88 F250
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>

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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:39:05 -0500
From: "Dave Harmier"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: 83 Bronco prob.

>From: "Carry Copeland"
>Subject: FTE 80-96 - Beginner without a clue


>I have an 83 Bronco with a 351M, variable venturi carb, and duraspark III
>ignition. The engine wiring harness was butchered by a previous owner
making......

EEEwwwwww, a variable venturi carb...get thee away from me devil!!!!!
If I had to keep it (the Bronco) I'd do a manifold/carb change and still be
able to pass emissions with fine tuning. We had a Ranger (mid 80's)
company truck with a variable carb....what a freakin' NIGHTMARE to drive!!!
(lastly if our POS '82 Suburban can pass as BUTCHERED as it is...I know
anything can!)

GOOD LUCK!!!!!

Dave H.
Houston >HOT
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:12:08 -0400
From: "Matt Fitzsimmons"
Subject: Re: [Re: FTE 80-96 - 93-96 F150]

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Rob
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Re: FTE 80-96 - 93-96 F150]


> William Berninghausen wrote:
> >
> > Question:
> > > >I'm considering buying a 93-96 F150 4x2 or 4x4 with a 4.9L & manual
> > > >trans. I haven't owned a pickup in a few years, so I'm kind of out
of
> > > >the loop as to what's happening.
> > > >
> > > >I know that the 4.9 is a good engine (owned one before) but I'm not
sure
> > > >about the tranny's that they are putting in those trucks. My last
F150
> > > >was a '85 and that had the good old tough as nails 4 speed (granny
> > > >first, no OD).
> > > >
> > --------------------
> > >
> > > The 300 six cylinder is a good engine. It is not as sporty of an
engine as
> > > the V-8s because you can not wind it up and really take off quickly
like
> > > they can, but it is a good puller.
> > >
> > > Try to find a truck with a ZF transmission, rather than the Mazda 5
speed
> > > as it is quite weak. I think it is a Mazda and Ranger truck
transmission
> > > and some technition though it would hold up in regular trucks.
> > >
> > > The Borg Warner T-18 4 speed you had in your 85 most likely can't be
beat
> > > by anything Ford offers.
> > >
> > > Blake
> > > Little Mountain
> > > Concord, Ohio
> > -----------------------
> >
> > Blake's right on the money, but I'll go one step farther--look for your
old
> > truck! A fuel-injected 6 with the 4sp grannie in a pre-90's (minimum
> > computer) vehicle. With what I'm hearing about the later model trucks,
I'll
> > keep rebuilding my 82!
> >
> > Bill in Portland
> >
>
> What was the first year that they fuel-injected the 6? (I'm trying to
> avoid the 86-92 years as they were not my favorite models). If I do
> have to go with an older truck, what was the last year that the 6 came
> in the F250? I would prefer a fuel-injected engine as they are much
> nicer in winter (ie, I hate chokes). One last question - was the fuel
> injection a throttle body, or was it sequential?
>
> Thanks, rob

I'm not sure, but I don't think Ford ever had throttle body injection in
trucks. Anyhow, the 300 I6 is bank fired port injection.
Having owned both carburated and fuel injected I can tell you the injected
engine is the one to have, a little more torque a lot more power a little
better fuel economy and MUCH easier to live with in winter.

Matt

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:33:09 -0700
From: "Radoje Spasojevic"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Beginner without a clue

Tear it out and throw it into the nearest lake!!! I had a VV carb in my '83
(it had a 351W though...) and it ran for crap as long as I had it. It left
me by the side of the road several times. Even the Ford dealership told me
that they weren't sure they could get it to run right after a complete
rebuild. You are better off dropping in a "conventional" carb, or a Holley
Pro-jection, and then tuning it real good to pass emissions. Of course if
you have underhood inspections are part of your states emission inspection
then you are pretty much stuck...
- -----Original Message-----
From: Blake Malkamaki
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, July 29, 1999 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Beginner without a clue


>>I have an 83 Bronco with a 351M, variable venturi carb, and duraspark III
>>ignition. The engine wiring harness was butchered by a previous owner
making
>>it impossible to troubleshoot. I am going to attempt to replace the
harness.
>>What other years, if any, or other models, might I find the engine wiring
>>harness I'm looking for?
>>
>
>From what I have read, your system is a major nightmare to get right even
>when it is all there.
>
>If you don't need emissions checked, maybe your should get a Duraspark out
>of a 77-79 and regular carb.
>
>Blake
>Little Mountain
>Concord, Ohio
>Early Oil Well Historian
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
>Web site design http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://hitechdesign.com
>Desktop Publishing service
>"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
>"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:55:47 -0800
From: "Mark Herzog"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Shift on the fly with manual locking hubs....

Hey folks,

Here in Fairbanks, using 4wd is a fairly common occurrence. Most of us live
on dirt roads, that in the winter stay snow covered all winter. While it
isn't needed on the main highways and streets a constant or relatively
frequent (probably at least 1/day) locking of the hubs, gets pretty annoying
at 50 below. My question is: What kind of problems would I be getting
myself into just leaving the truck's front wheels locked, and just shifting
into 4wd as needed. Certainly, it's going to wear the hubs a bit more, and
now the axle is spinning around.... Is this a major no, no? Any safety
things about having a locked axle w/o power?

BTW, its not snowing...yet.

Thanks,
Mark Herzog

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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:36:21 -0600
From: Fred Moreno
Subject: FTE 80-96 - But wait...

Wayne replied;


truck
will this work with it ..............ding >>
Yes, it will work with the Hypertech. I have a Superchip. And again
I will
state, If you are going to spend the $150 on the 6A, then spend $40
more and
get the 6AL. It has more features and expandability. You can get
them through
Summit, Jegs, or any local reputable speed shop.
Later
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC

Okay, but wait, if you can afford it go for the Digital MSD 6, its part
number is 6520. It has so many bells and whistles on it, it may not even be
worth your while. It has an RPM limiter that you can select by rotating two
separate dials so you don't need the little pills anymore, high-speed retard
(serious race application),I forget the other features but it slices and
dices, its the vego-matic of MSD 6!
I know its like going into the gun store, you start looking at the "bargain
rack" and next thing you know you are trying to figure out a payment plan on
that real nice Weatherby you can't live without...
I don't know how much it is. But it looks great in a completely new housing
(So what if you drive with the hood closed, it's still there).
The housing looks like one of these power amps you might buy at an audio
shop. Check it out. Anyone need a catalog? Don't hit me all at once but
reply directly to my address and I will see what I can get out the door.
Everyone enjoy your week-end!

Fred Moreno
Autotronic Controls Corp.
1995 F-150 4X4, 5.0L, 5-speed, with lots of LP on board!
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:44:37 EDT
From: WVAIL3 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 1988 Bronco Rims For Sale

1998 factory 15 in. rims with trim rings and hubs along with 31.5x10.5 Dunlop
AT tires.......available to best offer ....contact .....WVAIL3 AOL.COM
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:19:01 -0700
From: "Radoje Spasojevic"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re:

I have no experience on the aftermarket ignition systems, but as far as the
fuel flow meters, someone on the Bronco list suggested that it would be
possible to adapt a marine use fuel flow meter for use in a truck.
Apparently fuel flow meters are used in larger motor yachts.

Rade
- -----Original Message-----
From: William Berninghausen
To: truck list
Date: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 11:14 AM


I'm really glad I joined this list--you folks are the best source of
information around. It's like dropping into a tavern where everybody is
interested in the same thing--doesn't happen often!

I'm getting a little nervous, since the gauges in my 82 F100 still work like
they should. And my alternator isn't on fire. No brake boost problem since
the booster is on the end of my leg. And what can go wrong with a 3-speed
tranny--except when Doofus 'alters' the Hurst conversion bracket and has to
fab a new one.

Just two issues:

- --ignition systems/amplifiers/gadgets--has anyone tried and kept records on
any of them? Jacobs, Crane, MSD, snake oil? Be good to share the info with
everyone. For me, Splitfires actually made a 9% mileage boost, tested over
1000 miles against 1,000 miles on Autolites.

- --fuel gauges--why do we rely entirely on toilet ball/resistance coil
gauges?
I'd love a flowmeter that used an impeller in the fuel line and read out in
tenths of gallons to show me how much has gone into the carb. Standard
gauges
will keep you from running out, but they ain't precision devices. Anybody
in
the flowmeter business?

Appreciate the info, advice, and good humor

Bill in Portland

____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:25:08 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Shift on the fly with manual locking hubs....

>Hey folks,
>
>Here in Fairbanks, using 4wd is a fairly common occurrence. Most of us live
>on dirt roads, that in the winter stay snow covered all winter. While it
>isn't needed on the main highways and streets a constant or relatively
>frequent (probably at least 1/day) locking of the hubs, gets pretty annoying
>at 50 below. My question is: What kind of problems would I be getting
>myself into just leaving the truck's front wheels locked, and just shifting
>into 4wd as needed. Certainly, it's going to wear the hubs a bit more, and
>now the axle is spinning around.... Is this a major no, no? Any safety
>things about having a locked axle w/o power?
>
>BTW, its not snowing...yet.

No problems whatsoever. Burn a little more fuel is all. It will not hurt
the hubs to leave them in. The old Jeeps and trucks did not even have
lockout hubs and just left the axle run all the time. Some of the new Jeeps
now do the same thing.

If you have a locker in the front, you may have steering annomalies on the
road with the hubs locked.


Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
Web site design http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://hitechdesign.com
Desktop Publishing service
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."


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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:08:13 -0700
From: "Posluszny, Walt (POSL)"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: ballast resistor, igition voltage

> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:29:15 -0700
> From: "McMahon, Todd R."
> Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Re: ignition amp.
[snip]
> If I remember correctly, once the vehicle has started and the ignition
> key
> is released, the coil output passes through a resistor. I don't know if
> it's there for electrical noise reduction, or if it's intended to increase
> spark plug life.... But I remember that there was one in use (on older
> vehicles, anyways).
[snip]

Todd, i beleive that during starting the old breaker point igintion
systems got full battery voltage to put out more voltage for easier
starting. After starting the coil INPUT(~12volts) passed thru the ballast
resistor so that the coil saw less input voltage and hence provided less
boost in voltage. This would have the effect of having your breaker points,
plugs, condensor, etc.. last longer. With electronic ignitions I don't
beleive ballast resistors are used for this purpose any more. The ign.
probably gets full battery voltage (within a set range) all the time for a
great spark all the time. Walt
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:13:07 -0400
From: "Nathan Edward Green"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Fuel Tank...

Hey Andy,
Don't feel bad...My 1985 F-150, 302 Carb., 3 speed Auto is one of the
very few trucks without the dual tanks. Therefore, with only a 16.5 gallon
tank...around 11-12 mpg...end up stopping every 180 miles.
If you do want to replace your fuel tank(s) with one big one...try
Autozone. They have a 38 gallon fuel cell for 85-86 pickups for around $200.
Sadly, it would not fit my shortbed, I guess it only fits the longbeds...but
seems easy to install and retrofit to your system. So I am stopping at the gas
station quite a bit these days...bummer!

Nate

- --
C/Lt Col Nathan Edward Green--(Now a happy AS700)
negreen eos.ncsu.edu
(919) 833-9658

*************************************************************************
"I've got a B.S. in BS"
-Myself, in MEA444 Class

"I'm a scientist Mr. Roark, Certainty is a very big word for me."
-Dr. Amy Barnes:"Volcano"

"Well, If you want something badly enough, dreams have a way of coming true."
-EADA Ben Stone, "Law & Order"

*********************************************************************

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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:49:39 -0700
From: Larry
Subject: FTE 80-96 - fuel tank

I've been reading about the various problems with dual tanks. I haven't seen anyone

with one like mine. The tanks were working fine, and then one day I pulled into a
service
station to fill them up. I filled the rear tank, and then moved to the front. It
showed empty on the gauge, but only took about a gallon. I kept trying to put gas
in it, but it was full. The gauge still showed empty.

I don't drive the truck that often, and it's only been on one long trip since I've
owned it. It's a 91, 351w, ecab/longbed. It has about 53,000 miles on it.

I assumed the problem was in the sending unit in the tank, and figured that one day

I'd get around to removing the bed and fixing it. The truck is in emaculate
condition and I always fix any problems... eventually. I like my vehicles to be
perfect.

OK, so it got parked for a few weeks, and when I went to use it for a trip to the
lumber yard, the gauge was working fine. It hasn't had a problem since. It's been
working fine now for over a month. Any ideas? I hate to think that it will fail
when I most need it, but we all know that's exactly what will happen.
- --
-=Larry=-

91 F-150 XLT Lariat
98 Honda Prelude
99 Honda Civic Si







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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:00:02 -0400
From: "Doug"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - fuel tank

Sounds like you just have a loose connection. Do you notice erratic readings
when the vehicle is wet. ( Driving in the rain. ) May also be a bad ground,
but it mostly sounds like a bad connection either on the back of the gauge,
or near the sending unit itself. Good Luck. Let me know when you find out
what it is. Firefitr cxp.com

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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:18:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: AJSyndergaard webtv.net (Alan and Janyce Syndergaard)
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Later Model F150s

I'm getting a little miffed at all you owners of 86 to 91 Dinasours
F150s bad mouthing the later model trucks. I own a 93 XLT s/b 2wd with a
302ci and an EOD tranny. I have owned this truck since Oct. 1995, and I
have put about 40,000 miles on it. ( It currently has about 76,000
miles.) O a recent trip to Las Vegas it averaged 22.7 mpg. My fuel gages
are accurate in both tanks, its temperature gage is accurate, it has
never over-heated even in stop and go traffic with the air on, it is
even still running the original battery. The only problem I have had is
that it will need a serpentine belt about once a year. They tend to get
noisey.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't make Chicken Salad out of
Chicken Droppings, bite the bullet and get a newer truck. I don't
believe that any brand of truck is going to be completley trouble free
after 10 to15 years of use. By the way, I think that the 300 I-6 is a
great boat anchor, and I really hate rowing from light to light, so
stick shifts are out.

Thanks for letting get this off my chest,

Al

PS Wayne, I checked out your truck at the site. I like it a lot, My
truck is also lowered, and slightly modifided.

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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:11:03 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Later Model F150s

>I'm getting a little miffed at all you owners of 86 to 91 Dinasours
>F150s bad mouthing the later model trucks. I own a 93 XLT s/b 2wd with a
>302ci and an EOD tranny. I have owned this truck since Oct. 1995, and I
>have put about 40,000 miles on it. ( It currently has about 76,000
>miles.) O a recent trip to Las Vegas it averaged 22.7 mpg. My fuel gages
>are accurate in both tanks, its temperature gage is accurate, it has
>never over-heated even in stop and go traffic with the air on, it is
>even still running the original battery. The only problem I have had is
>that it will need a serpentine belt about once a year. They tend to get
>noisey.
>
>What I'm trying to say is that you can't make Chicken Salad out of
>Chicken Droppings, bite the bullet and get a newer truck. I don't
>believe that any brand of truck is going to be completley trouble free
>after 10 to15 years of use. By the way, I think that the 300 I-6 is a
>great boat anchor, and I really hate rowing from light to light, so
>stick shifts are out.
>

Newer trucks are better if you like newer trucks. But they are not better
than older trucks. Some may be and some are not. It is all in what you want.

I expect a truck to last 20 years or so... ten years is hardly broke in.

I understand you not wanting a stick shift. Some people just never do learn
to use them.

Oh, and a truck does not qualify as a dinasour unless it has solid rubber
tires and mechanical brakes.


Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
Web site design http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://hitechdesign.com
Desktop Publishing service
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."


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Date: 30 Jul 99 23:34:21 PDT
From: William Berninghausen
Subject: Re: [Re: FTE 80-96 - Later Model F150s]

Blake Malkamaki wrote:
> >I'm getting a little miffed at all you owners of 86 to 91 Dinasours
> >F150s bad mouthing the later model trucks. I own a 93 XLT s/b 2wd with=
a
> >302ci and an EOD tranny. I have owned this truck since Oct. 1995, and=
I
> >have put about 40,000 miles on it. ( It currently has about 76,000
> >miles.) O a recent trip to Las Vegas it averaged 22.7 mpg. My fuel gag=
es
> >are accurate in both tanks, its temperature gage is accurate, it has
> >never over-heated even in stop and go traffic with the air on, it is
> >even still running the original battery. The only problem I have had i=
s
> >that it will need a serpentine belt about once a year. They tend to ge=
t
> >noisey.
> >
> >What I'm trying to say is that you can't make Chicken Salad out of
> >Chicken Droppings, bite the bullet and get a newer truck. I don't
> >believe that any brand of truck is going to be completley trouble free=

> >after 10 to15 years of use. By the way, I think that the 300 I-6 is a
> >great boat anchor, and I really hate rowing from light to light, so
> >stick shifts are out.
> >
> =

> Newer trucks are better if you like newer trucks. But they are not bett=
er
> than older trucks. Some may be and some are not. It is all in what you
want.
> =

> I expect a truck to last 20 years or so... ten years is hardly broke in=
=2E
> =

> I understand you not wanting a stick shift. Some people just never do l=
earn
> to use them.
> =

> Oh, and a truck does not qualify as a dinasour unless it has solid rubb=
er
> tires and mechanical brakes.
> =

> =

> Blake
> Little Mountain
> Concord, Ohio
> Early Oil Well Historian
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
> Web site design http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://hitechdesign.com
> Desktop Publishing service
> "Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
> "An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject...."
> =

- --------------------------------------
Like we've said from time to time, isn't it great that this forum has roo=
m for
all kinds of ideas and opinions? I'll stick with an older truck because....


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