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Subject: 80-96-list-digest V3 #170
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80-96-list-digest Friday, June 18 1999 Volume 03 : Number 170



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - ford bronco service manual
FTE 80-96 - Re: early 90's design flaws
Re: FTE 80-96 - oil pan removal
FTE 80-96 - RE: Bolt stuck in shock absorber bushing
RE: FTE 80-96 - Bolt stuck in shock absorber bushing
Re: FTE 80-96 - Bolt stuck in shock absorber bushing
FTE 80-96 - Roller conversion
Re: FTE 80-96 - intake modifications...
Re: FTE 80-96 - Early '90's design flaws
FTE 80-96 - Pulling down my 302 - need advice
Re: FTE 80-96 - Pulling down my 302 - need advice
Re: FTE 80-96 - RE: Bolt stuck in shock absorber bushing
FTE 80-96 - Design Flaws
Re: FTE 80-96 - Pulling down my 302 - need advice

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 05:32:51 -0400
From: "gert m. lettner"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - ford bronco service manual

Is anybody out there who will sell me his unused ford bronco service manual
(like helm's)? i am the owner of a 1988 ford bronco, 2/4 wd, eddi bauer edition.

i am searching for over a year and it is not yet available on amazon or helm.
i will pay for book and transport (creditcard is possible).
greetings
LG
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 02:59:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Casey Vandor
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: early 90's design flaws

I hate to jump in on this one, but *EVERY* truck has its good and bad.
If you have been on the list for a while, you know my '83 has been
extremely dependable and also very unreliable. One day its great, the
next, it sucks.... We have had chebbys, dodges, and fords. THere are
things I *LOVE* about *ALL* of them, conversley there are things I
*HATE* about *ALL* of them. My ultimate truck would have to be a match
of all three (and some Jeep parts too, 'cause I love Jeeps!! Still
looking for a CJ, anybody got one for sale?) I used to baby my truck,
and it still broke down. This summer I almost sold it, but couldn't go
through with getting rid of it. I started to beat on it, and other than
many broken cum-a-longs, and flat tires, it has held up just as well as
before. So a little paint gets scratched off, or you the springs creak
when you flex 'em, maybe the windows rattle, or the computer isn't
quite entirely bug free (EEC-III is a virus......), but no matter what
anybody out there thinks, Ford, Chebby, or Dodge are not out there
trying to build crappy trucks, they are trying to be more efficient,
and make a more dependable truck. While we might not agree with all of
it, not many of us are the engineers behind this stuff. (Just ask any
contracter about the engineers they work with!!!) I guess I am trying
to say that everybody has a different idea of what the new truck should
be like, and unless your the engineer at the drawing board, you don't
have a lot of say. Maybe the primer was bad for a few years, but they
fixed that didn't they? The EEC III was crap, but they fixed that
right? When they can see a problem, they will tackle it.

Again I am sorry to write so long here, but we can't dog these guys
*TOO* much. Look how far the pickup has come in the last few years........
===
Casey Vandor
"That's the whole problem with science. You've got a bunch of empiricists trying to describe things of unimaginable wonder." - Calvin (& Hobbes)
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.tripod.com/CaseyV/
_________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:52:03 -0400
From: "Troy"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - oil pan removal

On 16 Jun 99, at 23:13, Steve wrote:

>I did my '82 w/ 351W twice before I got it right. 4" was plenty to allow me
>to completely remove the oil pan and even replace the sump pickup!

Hmmmmmmm, sounds like a pain in the ass to get up under there.
I think I'll let someone else bother with it than do it myself if the
gasket ever needs to be replaced. :)

You might be a redneck if... You've ever walked through a
drive-through window. - Jeff Foxworthy


Troy Williams
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:43:16 -0600
From: "Smeins, Larry"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: Bolt stuck in shock absorber bushing

I take it the shock is still being held on by the bolt that you can't
remove. I had a similar problem with a Mopar van recently except in their
great wisdom Mopar didn't use a nut but the bolt went into a tapped hole in
the suspension. I cut through the shock mounting ring, the one with the
rubber bushing, with a hack saw and split it open. That allowed me to get
the shock off of the rubber. Then I cut the rubber bushing off. You will
find a metal sleeve bushing on the bolt. Once you get down to the bolt you
can cut it off with a hack saw.

Larry


> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:33:10 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Arthur Dembinski
> Subject: FTE 80-96 - Bolt stuck in shock absorber bushing
>
> I was attempting to remove a lower bolt holding the
> lower end of a rear shock absorber to the axle. I
> used liquid wrench to remove the nut, and found out
> the rubber bushing had swollen around the bolt. Now
> the bolt will spin with difficulty in the bushing, but
> it's too tightly held to pull out, and hammering on
> the end of the bolt accomplishes nothing, it's like
> bobbing for apples. I am willing to sacrifice the
> bolt. I'd appreciate any suggestions on removing the
> bolt. It's 12 mm diameter, 18 mm hex head, about 5 cm
> long.
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:57:55 -0700
From: "McMahon, Todd R."
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Bolt stuck in shock absorber bushing

Use a butane torch to warm (melt?) the bushing. Be careful, of course...
fuel lines, etc. - Be sure to use urethane bushings when re-assembling.

Good luck...

Todd

- -----Original Message-----
From: Arthur Dembinski [mailto:adembinski yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 9:33 PM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Bolt stuck in shock absorber bushing


I was attempting to remove a lower bolt holding the
lower end of a rear shock absorber to the axle. I
used liquid wrench to remove the nut, and found out
the rubber bushing had swollen around the bolt. Now
the bolt will spin with difficulty in the bushing, but
it's too tightly held to pull out, and hammering on
the end of the bolt accomplishes nothing, it's like
bobbing for apples. I am willing to sacrifice the
bolt. I'd appreciate any suggestions on removing the
bolt. It's 12 mm diameter, 18 mm hex head, about 5 cm
long.

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:53:38 -0500
From: Matthew Banevich
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Bolt stuck in shock absorber bushing

One word if all else fails--------->"sawzall"
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:48:59 -0500
From: Steve Randa
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Roller conversion

I was looking in the FMS catalog at the roller conversion kit. They say
its for '85 and up 302s. I thought these kits allowed any year 302 to be
converted? I was wanting to run the E303 or possibly the B303 but the
latter isn't recommended for automatics. Although I do have all of Art
Carr's goodies on the way for this AOD plus a converter if I could just
decide on a cam.

Steve Randa
'84 F150

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:54:35 -0400
From: "Max W. Cottrell"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - intake modifications...

> If so, why would they heat the air with coolant when the engine is warmer?
>
> I might be wrong, but, for normal driving, you NEED that coolant flow to
> keep the TB cool. The EGR system puts extremely hot gas back into the
> intake right behind the TB. Without the cooling plate, the TB and manifold
> will get even hotter which will make the air going into the cylinders even
> hotter- thus reducing power.
>
> Just my thoughts,
> Neal

Been reading this thread and had a thought......

Why not try an _independent_ small cooling system that's located away from the
engine
area to keep the TB cool? Not the ice idea, but a separate radiator, fan,
circulation motor,
etc..

Just my 2 cents worth; I'll send the bill later.

Max W. Cottrell


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:33:02 -0400
From: "Troy"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Early '90's design flaws

On 15 Jun 99, at 11:13, J.S.H. wrote:

>"Being an apologist for penny wise, pound foolish decisions by the
>manufacturer seems rather absurd.
>If anybody on this list said FORDS are perfect I must have missed it.
>If my truck was constantly breaking down and had horrible design flaws,
>I would sell it and buy another truck.
> Keeping it seems rather absurd to me.

I don't know what has happened to Ford since 1990 or so. I do
have an '84 F-150 nearing 93,000 miles right now. Yes, you read it
right, 93,000 miles. Since purchasing the truck over a year ago, I
have only had to do a brake job, replace the valve cover gaskets,
intake manifold gaskets (done them both at the same with the
intake manifold gasket time to save aggravation), replaced the
gearbox, front shocks, and had to rebuild the carbuerator.

I can tell the truck has been kept up pretty well, and I will continue
to do the same on my part with regular maintenance. Anyway, the
point is that I have only replaced stuff that only comes with natural
wear. I think the gearbox was premature for under 93,000 miles,
but I don't know how it was driven before either.

I don't know, seems the stuff lasted better a decade or so ago than
they do now. I hear horror stories out of all of the new vehicles that
are out, except for the little Honda's, Toyota's, etc. I have heard
my share of horror stories about Nissan's though.

Sure, the little jap jobs might have less problems, but when
something does break, it's more expensive to replace since they
are imported parts, they are not cars that you can work on yourself
unless you are double jointed or enjoy taking almost the entire car
apart. Then let's not mention what would happen if you get into an
accident with one of them. :(

You might be a redneck if... You honest-to-God think women are
turned on by animal noises and seductive tongue gestures.
- Jeff Foxworthy


Troy Williams
________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:24:07 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Pulling down my 302 - need advice

Hi Guys,

Re: 1988 F-150 4x4 302 fuel injected...

Well I starting pulling down the top end (to the heads) of my 302. So far I
found that the bearing in the clutch fan is shot and it wabbles, the water
pump bushing has play, but is not leaking yet. I took the top half of the
intake manifold off and found the gasket was broken and crooked, blocking
the flow on one runner. Plus one of the manifold bolts was loose.

Now I need to know how to get the fuel lines disconnected from the
injectors and the rails. Do the rails just lift up off the injectors? Can
those injectors be cleaned when off?

Also- I think I found the knock detector. Is it way in the back going
straight down? Can they be tested? Is it best to just replace them? Also
back there, the emission air pump plumbing fitting that divides the hoses
that goe to the back of both heads has its top busted off, so I need one of
them.

Does anyone know the original cam specs? I want to check it for wear.

Gonna put in a new timing chain and valve seals.

What about installing the timing chain? Is it a good practice to set it for
4 degrees advance with an electronic engine?

Any other advice is welcome. I have rebuilt many engines, but never a
computer one.

Thanks,

Blake

Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
Web site design http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://hitechdesign.com
Desktop Publishing service
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Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:52:43 -0700
From: Bob Kennedy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Pulling down my 302 - need advice

Blake Malkamaki wrote:

> Hi Guys,
>
> Re: 1988 F-150 4x4 302 fuel injected...
>
> Well I starting pulling down the top end (to the heads) of my 302. So far I
> found that the bearing in the clutch fan is shot and it wabbles, the water
> pump bushing has play, but is not leaking yet. I took the top half of the
> intake manifold off and found the gasket was broken and crooked, blocking
> the flow on one runner. Plus one of the manifold bolts was loose.
>
> Now I need to know how to get the fuel lines disconnected from the
> injectors and the rails. Do the rails just lift up off the injectors? Can
> those injectors be cleaned when off?

The injectors have an O-ring at the top that secures them to the fuel rail. On
mine (86 302 EFI), the rail came up with a little side to side motion, 2
injectors stayed in the block, 2 came up with the rail. I cleaned them up at
the top and at the tip, seated them back in the rail and turned the engine
over, the banks fire all four at the same time. I noted a good mist from each
and re-assembled.

>
>
> Also- I think I found the knock detector. Is it way in the back going
> straight down? Can they be tested? Is it best to just replace them?

I just replaced mine.

> Also
> back there, the emission air pump plumbing fitting that divides the hoses
> that goe to the back of both heads has its top busted off, so I need one of
> them.
>
> Does anyone know the original cam specs? I want to check it for wear.
>
> Gonna put in a new timing chain and valve seals.
>
> What about installing the timing chain? Is it a good practice to set it for
> 4 degrees advance with an electronic engine?

I set mine at factory specs. There is circuitry that advances and retards
timing, the knock sensor and PIP circuit are involved.

>
>
> Any other advice is welcome. I have rebuilt many engines, but never a
> computer one.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Blake
>
> Blake
> Little Mountain
> Concord, Ohio
> Early Oil Well Historian
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
> Web site design http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://hitechdesign.com
> Desktop Publishing service
> "Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."
>
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Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:57:35 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - RE: Bolt stuck in shock absorber bushing

>I take it the shock is still being held on by the bolt that you can't
>remove. I had a similar problem with a Mopar van recently except in their
>great wisdom Mopar didn't use a nut but the bolt went into a tapped hole in
>the suspension. I cut through the shock mounting ring, the one with the
>rubber bushing, with a hack saw and split it open. That allowed me to get
>the shock off of the rubber. Then I cut the rubber bushing off. You will
>find a metal sleeve bushing on the bolt. Once you get down to the bolt you
>can cut it off with a hack saw.
>

A die grinder with cut-off wheel, or a Milwaukee 4.5" grinder with cut-off
wheel will cut off the bolt from both sides of the shock.

Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
Web site design http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://hitechdesign.com
Desktop Publishing service
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."


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Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:08:17 -0700
From: "J.S.H."
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Design Flaws

>I'll make one final rebuttal to your facile responses that attempt to
>paint me as an idiot.

>(believe you said you had three Fords), but I'll bet you
> have at least one that has some of the flaws previously listed, and
> probably a host of others you have not found or are not mentioning.

So If I state that I'm don't have the same problems with my trucks that
you have with yours, it means I'm either a idiot or I'm lying?

>Used Chevy's tend to run about one to two
> thousand more apiece in the same year and trim levels, possibly because
> they were somewhat better at retaining paint, and the ones I have driven
> generally ran smoother and leaked fewer fluids than the Fords.
Why didn't you buy one?
We have a whole fleet of them at work and we have
more than our share of problems (Trans.,F.I.,Brakes,Charging system
etc...)

> Toyota T-100, and I
>don't recall if it came in an extended cab--is it even still available?

Who cares.I prefer nice looking trucks myself.

>I've got Nissan and Honda cars now

Speaking of Japaneese cars my neighbor junked a Suba** 6 months ago.110K
on it and it won't smog.Costs more for the parts to repair it than the
tinny,gutless,poorly designed piece of junk is worth.
Bought himself a 94 F-150.

>Don't take my word on the poor repair history of domestic trucks,
>check out Consumer Reports' surveys.

They rated my mother in laws Cherokee highly and she can't keep it out
of the shop for more than a month.Says she should have listened to me
and bought a Explorer.
My personal experience is worth much more to me than any magazine's
opinion.

I enjoy owning,driving,discussing,and even(gasp!)working on my Fords.
I love Drag,Stock Car and Off Road Racing.I view vehicles as much more
than just transportation.I'm a gear head who doesn't check Consumer
Reports,mileage, or number of cup holders before buying.You can spot me
in traffic,I'm the guy with the big Ford truck with a smile to match in
the sea of mundane japanesse cars.
I have wasted a enough band width on this so I'm going out to the garage
for some quality time.
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:33:02 EDT
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Pulling down my 302 - need advice

In a message dated 6/17/99 11:26:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
blake little-mountain.com writes:



"Well I starting pulling down the top end (to the heads) of my 302. So far I
found that the bearing in the clutch fan is shot and it wabbles, the water
pump bushing has play, but is not leaking yet. I took the top half of the
intake manifold off and found the gasket was broken and crooked, blocking
the flow on one runner. Plus one of the manifold bolts was loose."

Replace the water pump, no need to play with that one. Go with an electric
fan if you can afford it, much more efficient than the clutch controlled ones
and frees up some power.

"Now I need to know how to get the fuel lines disconnected from the
injectors and the rails. Do the rails just lift up off the injectors? Can
those injectors be cleaned when off?"

The fuel rail just pops off of the injectors, but you will need one of those
fancy (HA) tools to get the fuel line loose from the injector bank. I would
also suggest changing the injector seals (O-ring) before putting them back
together.

"Also- I think I found the knock detector. Is it way in the back going
straight down? Can they be tested? Is it best to just replace them? Also
back there, the emission air pump plumbing fitting that divides the
hoses
that goes to the back of both heads has its top busted off, so I need
one of
them."

Yep that is the knock sensor, and REPLACE IT NOW. Unless you know a really
skinny midget to get in there with it assembled to change it.

" Does anyone know the original cam specs? I want to check it for wear".

Specs as follows. I believe all the 5.0L cams were the same after 1982
Intake .2375
Exhaust .2474
No duration specs listed..I'll try to get that for you. I also have the
accepted bearing clearance levels and etc., If you need them.

....


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