80-96-list-digest Sunday, March 28 1999 Volume 03 : Number 087



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?
RE: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?
RE: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?
FTE 80-96 - Rear seat height
RE: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?
Re: FTE 80-96 - Rear seat height
FTE 80-96 - 89 F-150 - Engine Light shows trouble
FTE 80-96 - Re: High Temp Reads?
FTE 80-96 - Re: Specs
FTE 80-96 - ADMIN: Web site updates
FTE 80-96 - ADMIN: T-shirts
FTE 80-96 - Gorilla locking lug nuts -HELP
Re: FTE 80-96 - 89 F-150 - Engine Light shows trouble
[none]
Re: FTE 80-96 - Gorilla locking lug nuts -HELP
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: High Temp Reads?
Re: FTE 80-96 - Gorilla locking lug nuts -HELP
RE: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?
RE: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?

=======================================================================

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Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 06:38:18 -0600
From: "Chuck"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?

with all gages moving..... it definately sounds like electrical to me. Have
you ever done the Key On Engine Running (KOER) test and the Wiggle test?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Alan Alquist
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 1999 2:03 AM
> To: '80-96-list ford-trucks.com'
> Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?
>
>
>
> I replace my thermostats, radiator caps, hoses and coolant aliquots (on
> all my vehicles; as I do mtn. search and rescue) every 12 months--these
> items are inexpensive and not the problem...I still suspect electrical and
> still suspect this may not be easy to solve.
>
> ...thanks for temp-control maint.-comment.
>

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 06:53:31 -0600
From: "Chuck"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?

You know, I found some 1-7/8" dia gages, is it possible to put them overtop
the old gages without effecting the computer and the electronics in there,
and be able to monitor a real-time output of the engine's workings?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Judith Grunberger
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 1999 8:11 PM
> To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?
>
>
> On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Jim Cannon wrote:
>
> > You have the classic symptoms of Ford's Fine Guages! There is a little
> > Instrument Voltage Regulator behind the instrument cluster that
> sometimes
> > decides not to bother regulating the voltage to the instruments. When it
> > does, all the guages swing high, just as you describe. Replacing the IVR
> > does not usually help all that much. I have learned to keep track of my
> > fuel and ignore the high temp when I have more fuel now than I did 5
> > minutes ago. What a pain. I pick up IVRs at junkyards usually
> for $1 or $2.
> > Some work better than others. Don't pay Ford $17 for a new one! There is
> > talk of making a solid state electronic replacement for the old POS Ford
> > IVR. I have the parts but never bothered to put it together.
>
> I'll second this. Whacking the dash usually provided a temporary fix. Heh.
>
> --
> Judith Grunberger * jcookson io.com | It's nice to be liked
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.io.com/~jcookson | But it's better by far to get paid
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://grunberger.net/ | - Liz Phair
>
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 06:53:30 -0600
From: "Chuck"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Bob Kennedy
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 1999 7:28 PM
> To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?
>
>
> Sounds like you are loosing a ground. You might want to run a
> frame to engine
> ground.
>

yep, you negetive cable should be one continous cable attached to your frame
and engine

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 10:49:31 EST
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Rear seat height

Gang,
OK all, I found the name and address of the company that has those higher rear
seat brackets. The company name is LMI Welding. They do have a website
LMI Welding (home page)- Heavy Duty Truck
Acc... Check them out. I love mine. Let me know what you think of the
product if you order them.
Later,
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
"Hazardous Material"
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Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:50:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Alquist
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?

I was tempted to purchase a 3-gauge Temp. set for $19.95 at Walmart
recently; had a hard time buying it there though. For now, I AM CERTAIN
my 'add-on' exhaust and tranny gauges work...but eventually I will need
everything working perfectly...I blame (or thank) my father for this!

On Sat, 27 Mar 1999,
Chuck wrote:

You know, I found some 1-7/8" dia gages, is it possible to put them overtop
the old gages without effecting the computer and the electronics in there,
and be able to monitor a real-time output of the engine's workings?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Judith Grunberger
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 1999 8:11 PM
> To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?
>
>
> On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Jim Cannon wrote:
>
> > You have the classic symptoms of Ford's Fine Guages! There is a little
> > Instrument Voltage Regulator behind the instrument cluster that
> sometimes
> > decides not to bother regulating the voltage to the instruments. When it
> > does, all the guages swing high, just as you describe. Replacing the IVR
> > does not usually help all that much. I have learned to keep track of my
> > fuel and ignore the high temp when I have more fuel now than I did 5
> > minutes ago. What a pain. I pick up IVRs at junkyards usually
> for $1 or $2.
> > Some work better than others. Don't pay Ford $17 for a new one! There is
> > talk of making a solid state electronic replacement for the old POS Ford
> > IVR. I have the parts but never bothered to put it together.
>
> I'll second this. Whacking the dash usually provided a temporary fix. Heh.
>
> --
> Judith Grunberger * jcookson io.com | It's nice to be liked
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.io.com/~jcookson | But it's better by far to get paid
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://grunberger.net/ | - Liz Phair
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Univ of Wash; Research Scientist
1959 NE Pacific St; Rehab Med; Box 356490
Seattle, WA 98195-6490
206-685-7313(Off)206-685-3244(Fax) 206-994-1450(Page)
flag u.washington.edu


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:57:37 -0500
From: "Steve"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Rear seat height

Wayne Foy wrote:

>Gang,
>OK all, I found the name and address of the company that has those higher
rear
>seat brackets. The company name is LMI Welding. They do have a website
>LMI Welding (home page)- Heavy Duty
Truck
>Acc... Check them out.

I have 2 jump seats in the back of my extended cab. Is there a straight
forward conversion to a bench?

I have an '82 F150.

Steve

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 10:04:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob LaDouceur
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 89 F-150 - Engine Light shows trouble

My wife has an 89 Ford F-150 Lariat with the 5.8l motor. It recently lost
water and I found a leak
at the intake manifold and water jacket on the passenger side. She took it
to a local shop and they
replaced the intake manifold gasket and all appeared fine. She drove it 25
miles after which the
engine light went on and she noticed the engine sounding "louder". It had
oil and water, but was not overheating. The temperature gauge showed normal
but the oil pressure had gone low and the engine light was on. She checked
the oil and it was way hot, so hot that she burned herself slightly on the
dipstick.
She had it towed back to the shop that night. I drove over to check it out
before the shop opened and didn't notice anything suspicious - it started
fine when cold and made no noise.

It seems highly coincidental that this would occur so soon after a repair.
Does anyone have any idea why the oil would get hot enough to lose pressure
but the water temperature remain normal? Any guesses as to what would have
gone wrong with an intake gasket replacement and that problem?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts,
Bob
- ---
bobl proaxis.com
Corvallis, Oregon

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:07:33 -0800
From: Vogt Family
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: High Temp Reads?

On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Alan Alquist wrote:
>
> Occassionally my 'in-dash' temp gauge will suddenly go from exact
> middle to very high normal in my 6.9L diesel (Int-Navistar; '86 F-250).
> This is upsetting. Excessive high heat in the engine or tranny is not in
> my comfort zone.
>
> ...however, I am not certain this is an accurate depiction of engine temp!
> My exhaust temp does not change (300-500 deg F) when the in-dash bump-up
> occurs. Seems to me my exhaust and tranny pyrometers would pick-up on
> temperature variations as the in-dasher would.
>
> Can anybody offer up any explanation here?
>
> ...oh yea, I've replaced the temperature sending unit (with no change in
> gauge-behavior).
>
> ...one other odd thing: oil pressure gauge and fuel gauge shift to the
> right at the same time the temp gauge goes v. high normal (right).
>
> Ground fault?...Fuse block short?...Help!! I use my truck alot to pull my
> 7,000 lb 5th wheel and odd jobs.

I have the same truck as you. Just a side note, Navistar was not yet
invented in 1986-it was still International Harvester. Later they sold
Harvester to Case tractor and changed the name to Navistar.

Your problem needs to be in the FAQ. This is at least the third time I
have heard it here. It's through no fault of your own, but it is rather
amusing. The problem itself lies in a device called the Instrument
Voltage Regulator in the dash. It is like an automatic circuit breaker
or a turn signal flasher in the way it opens and closes by a heated
bimetallic strip. Its purpose is to supply an average 5V to the
instruments. When working properly, the fluctuation is not noticeable
because the gauges are so slow responding. However the thing goes bad
and then you have problems. People's luck seems to be bad with getting
replacement IVRs to work for very long. With a diesel, I just keep an
eye on the overheat warning light when it gets up there, but generally
use the oil pressure gauge as my benchmark for where the temp gauge
should be.

Someone was working on an electronic replacement, any news from them?
Also my idea was just to use a 7805 with a big heat sink, might that
work?

Birken
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Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:28:57 PST
From: "Casey Vandor"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Specs

If you can't find it in your manual the best spot I could tell you to
look is

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.wrljet.com/engines/small.html

They have lots of information, but you need to know exactly what engine
code you have...stuff like that.


Casey Vandor
Home Page http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.tripod.com/CaseyV/
83 F-250 4X4
75 W-200 4X2









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Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:11:56 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 80-96 - ADMIN: Web site updates

1. Pictorial has been updated. Nearly completely caught
up (only 3 days behind rather than 4 weeks).
2. Links updated (in antique truck section)
3. 83-94 HP/torque ratings added to the forum.

Ken Payne
Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

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Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:14:58 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 80-96 - ADMIN: T-shirts

Several people have been waiting on t-shirts. We ran out
and had order more. We received them on Thursday and the
printing was bad (one color was offset). Our supplier,
Jim Osborn Reproductions (same supplier as our books and
decals) believes in top-notch quality and took them back,
no questions asked. They're going back to press and should
be shipping by the end next week. We apologize for the
delay and wanted everyone to know that we don't cash checks
or charge cards until the product ships.

Ken Payne
Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com
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Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:42:18 -0600
From: "ROB SARTORIUS"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Gorilla locking lug nuts -HELP

Has anyone heard of gorilla locking lug nuts? I have an 1984 F-150 with 5
of these on each wheel and I have no "key" for these locking nuts. I bought
the truck last year (14 months ago) and have not have any problem to check
the lugs until today when I went to get the tires rotated. Voila ...NO
KEY



ANY help or advice on how to remove the current "locked" nuts is
appreciated.




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Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 07:05:42 -0700
From: "Evan Tait"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 89 F-150 - Engine Light shows trouble

sounds like a oil pump failure just my 2 cents
evan
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Bob LaDouceur
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 1999 11:04 AM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 89 F-150 - Engine Light shows trouble


> My wife has an 89 Ford F-150 Lariat with the 5.8l motor. It recently lost
> water and I found a leak
> at the intake manifold and water jacket on the passenger side. She took
it
> to a local shop and they
> replaced the intake manifold gasket and all appeared fine. She drove it
25
> miles after which the
> engine light went on and she noticed the engine sounding "louder". It had
> oil and water, but was not overheating. The temperature gauge showed
normal
> but the oil pressure had gone low and the engine light was on. She
checked
> the oil and it was way hot, so hot that she burned herself slightly on the
> dipstick.
> She had it towed back to the shop that night. I drove over to check it
out
> before the shop opened and didn't notice anything suspicious - it started
> fine when cold and made no noise.
>
> It seems highly coincidental that this would occur so soon after a repair.
> Does anyone have any idea why the oil would get hot enough to lose
pressure
> but the water temperature remain normal? Any guesses as to what would
have
> gone wrong with an intake gasket replacement and that problem?
> Thanks in advance for any thoughts,
> Bob
> ---
> bobl proaxis.com
> Corvallis, Oregon
>
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Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:44:33 -0500
From: RON TRIPLETT
Subject: [none]

I have a question about a 1993 F-250 7.3 liter diesel with an automatic
transmission. The transmission works just fine until I pull our 5th wheel
trailer. After pulling for a short distance when coming to a complete stop
and taking off the gears shift hard through 1st and 2nd also in reverse.
The temperature of the fluid never goes above 200degs. After unhooking and
setting over night the problem goes away any suggestions?
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Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:59:56 EST
From: CRGREENE1 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Gorilla locking lug nuts -HELP

Hey buddy, just take them in to someplace that deals w/ wheels and
tires..(Discount Tire), and they can cut them off..had the same thing happen
to me.

Hope this helps!
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Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 00:13:58 -0600
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: High Temp Reads?

At 13:07 27/03/99 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Someone was working on an electronic replacement, any news from them?
>Also my idea was just to use a 7805 with a big heat sink, might that
>work?
>
Yes, a 7805 with small capacitors on the input and the output will do very
well. You are right, it requires a large heat sink, especially if you ever
have all three guages reading high at the same time. I designed such a
device and have these parts out on my bench in a zip-lock bag, but have
never been motivated enough to put them in.

Jim Cannon
Houston, TX
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton
'63 Buick Riviera
'80 Ford F-150
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Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 00:21:46 -0600
From: Matthew Banevich
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Gorilla locking lug nuts -HELP

I have a Bronco that had two on each rear wheel, I ruined four Craftsman
13/16" 12 point sockets, but I got them off, now, I'm trying to figure
out how to get the locks off of the sockets.
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Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 00:29:31 -0600
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?

Add-on temp/press guages are probably a good idea. You can't rely on the
Ford guages. But don't buy cheap guages at wal-mart. You will not be happy
with them.

At 08:50 27/03/99 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I was tempted to purchase a 3-gauge Temp. set for $19.95 at Walmart
>recently; had a hard time buying it there though. For now, I AM CERTAIN
>my 'add-on' exhaust and tranny gauges work...but eventually I will need
>everything working perfectly...I blame (or thank) my father for this!
>

Jim Cannon
Houston, TX
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton
'63 Buick Riviera
'80 Ford F-150
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 00:21:37 -0600
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?

I would agree if only temp guage moved, but when all three guages swing
together, it is the IVR.

At 22:34 26/03/99 -0600, you wrote:
>Possibly sticking thermostat....I had the same problem, temp would sky
>rocket for about 30 seconds then dive back to low temp.
>Replaced it and no more problems!
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:Alan Alquist [SMTP:flag u.washington.edu]
>> Sent:Friday, March 26, 1999 4:28 PM
>> To:80-96-list ford-trucks.com
>> Subject:FTE 80-96 - High Temp Reads?
>>
>>
>> Occassionally my 'in-dash' temp gauge will suddenly go from exact
>> middle to very high normal in my 6.9L diesel (Int-Navistar; '86 F-250).
>> This is upsetting. Excessive high heat in the engine or tranny is not in
>> my comfort zone.
>>
>> ...however, I am not certain this is an accurate depiction of engine temp!
>> My exhaust temp does not change (300-500 deg F) when the in-dash bump-up
>> occurs. Seems to me my exhaust and tranny pyrometers would pick-up on
>> temperature variations as the in-dasher would.
>>
>> Can anybody offer up any explanation here?
>>
>> ...oh yea, I've replaced the temperature sending unit (with no change in
>> gauge-behavior).
>>
>> ...one other odd thing: oil pressure gauge and fuel gauge shift to the....


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