80-96-list-digest Tuesday, March 9 1999 Volume 03 : Number 068



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 80-96 - Transmission Coolers
Re: FTE 80-96 - AOD or E4OD
FTE 80-96 - Throttle Position Sensor on 7.3L IDI Diesel
Re: FTE 80-96 - '86 F150 rear brakes
FTE 80-96 - A/C in defrost
FTE 80-96 - RE: Had Enough Of The E4OD
FTE 80-96 - Transmission coolers
RE: FTE 80-96 - E4OD Fluid Changes
Re: FTE 80-96 - Transmission coolers
FTE 80-96 - RE: add-on cooler configuration
Re: FTE 80-96 - Transmission coolers
RE: FTE 80-96 - Throttle Position Sensor on 7.3L IDI Diesel
RE: FTE 80-96 - F-150 Power Door Lock Problems
FTE 80-96 - Rear brakes
FTE 80-96 - Speedometer Quit Working
Re: FTE 80-96 - Transmission Coolers
Re: FTE 80-96 - Transmission Coolers
FTE 80-96 - Re: '86 F150 rear brakes
Re: FTE 80-96 - Speedometer Quit Working
FTE 80-96 - Re: Throttle Position Sensor on 7.3L IDI Diesel
Re: FTE 80-96 - Speedometer Quit Working

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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 06:56:54 EST
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Transmission Coolers

In a message dated 3/7/99 1:29:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, JSC721 aol.com
writes:


coolers.
Did you use the trans. cooler and the radiator trans. cooler? Or did you
bypass
the radiator cooler and just hook up the transmission cooler??

Joe >>
Joe,
The tranny shop I had mine done at bypassed the radiator all together. I have
one of those electrostatically cooled jobs. The tranny guys explained that the
fins expand and contract due to the thickness (temp) of the fluid. I also
installed a trans. temp gauge to monitor any changes. Since I have done all
this, the tranny never seems to get any hotter than 175 degrees. Which by the
way I am told is optimal.
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
"Hazardous Material"
Wayne's Flareside Page
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 07:12:26 EST
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - AOD or E4OD

In a message dated 3/7/99 5:52:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, 2insane excite.com
writes:


wondering if it has the AOD or E4OD. I think it's the E40D but I'm not
sure.
Also wondering what kind of problems it has and possibly some fixes to make
it better? Thanx.
>>
You have the AOD. The E4OD didn't come out until the 90's.
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
"Hazardous Material"
Wayne's Flareside Page
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 13:24:32 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rnar?= Huse
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Throttle Position Sensor on 7.3L IDI Diesel

The best place to learn more about the diesel is to post your questions
to the PSD page (see the link page at FTE).
The throttle position sensor would be the rheostat hanging on to the
accel axle on the right side of the diesel pump assembly (I have a -90
7.3, could be different). The TPS can loosen from this axle, the wire
plug could come off, or the sensor may be shot, of course. The sensor
could be measured with a multimeter for proper function (your friendly
Ford dealer or local garage can both do this).
The high-idle will also retard your "ignition" (pump position). This
makes it easier for the beast to fire, but also creates more noise (and
less power). If your high-idle is stuck on (not the RPM solenoid, just
the timing adjuster), you could end up with a noisy gutless POS.
Check your Chilton's or Haynes!

- --
Bjornar Huse
1 Son, 3 yrs
1 Groenendael, 4 yrs
1 1990 Ford E-250 Club Wagon 7.3 diesel, 3.54, E4OD
1 1994 Ford Escort 1.3
Oh, yes, one 1971 wife, too!
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 07:58:40 -0500
From: Steve Means
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - '86 F150 rear brakes

John,
I have a '87 full-size Bronco which has the problem with the rear
brakes. What I believe is happening is that the shoes do not self adjust
during breaking in reverse. I have tried adjusting them manually, through
the slot on the inside of each wheel, everytime a change the oil. It seems
to help to some extent. I haven't heard this mentioned before, so I wonder
how common this problem is. I agree with you, it saves money on buying
shoes! Sure do have to change to front pads frequently though!
>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 05:54:40 -0800
>From: johnhfleming juno.com
>Subject: FTE 80-96 - '86 F150 rear brakes
>
>My '86 F150 rear brakes do not seem to be doing much. With the rear
>jacked up and the engine at idle in gear the rear wheels will still
>rotate when the brakes are applied unless I really push on the pedal. I
>have replaced everything from the booster to the rear cylinders
>(including the proportioning valve) without any change in effectiveness.
>Was there a service bulletin or something on this problem that anyone
>knows about? My truck is a super cab with a towing package and I am
>thinking that I may need to use the larger slave cylinders available in
>the rear, mine are 15/16 and I can get 1" at the local parts store.
>
>I am saving a lot of money on rear shoes though :)
>
>Also, I just bought the EEC-IV diagnostic/ troubleshooting software off
>the Web. What a great source of data. Pinouts, readings and all kinds of
>good info on testing sensors, codes etc. I can't remember the address off
>hand but if anyone wants it I will scare it up.
>
>Thanks
>
>John.
Steve Means
Naval Research Laboratory
4555 Overlook Avenue SW
Code 7121
Washington, DC 20375
Email: means wave.nrl.navy.mil
Voice: 202-404-4653
Fax: 202-404-7813
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 08:54:51 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - A/C in defrost

Paul of Portland writes: >>You know, I don't remember having that much trouble
defrosting windows
before they came up with this smart idea to use the AC to dry the air.
Amd I spent some time in very cold country, too. Also, the heater and
defroster seem to work fine in vehicles that do not have AC. I would
like very much to have control of my heater, defroster and AC back.

Splice in a simple toggle switch in the A/C power line to the A/C compressor.
It works great. You can have the A/C disabled when the switch is open or work
normally when the switch is closed.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:34:41 -0500
From: Paul M Radecki
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: Had Enough Of The E4OD

>>I have a 96 F250HD EC 460 and my intentions are to
>>swap out that piece of junk tranny for the heavy duty
>>5 speed this spring.
SNIP
Somebody suggested using a C6 auto for ease of swappage. You could get
the best of both worlds: use a C6, then add an aftermarket overdrive
unit from someplace like Gear Vendors or US Gear. Unless, of course,
aftermarket overdrives suck. If they do, I'm sure somebody on the list
will say so... I think you might still have to use the 5-speed type
computer, though, since the C6 will not have the sensors that the 'puter
needs. It might be better to just sell the whole truck and buy an
identical one with a non-E4OD transmission!

lordjanusz juno.com
'94 F150 5-speed (tranny by Mazda... no problems yet... )
'73 F100 C6 :-)

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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:53:42 -0700
From: "Tom Higgins"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Transmission coolers

What about the additional tranny coolers that were "factory"?. I have 96
F150 with a 302 and E40D(?)
tranny that has a separate (in front of the radiator) tranny fluid cooler.
I don't tow with this truck but live
in Phoenix. Do I need a larger cooler for regular use? What about towing?
I haven't finished paying
for this thing and it is about out of warranty. I DON'T need to buy a new
transmission this year.

Thanks for any advice.

Tom in Phoenix

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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:57:11 -0500
From: "D. Pashley"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - E4OD Fluid Changes

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of msalvetti
Sent: Friday, February 26, 1999 1:17 PM
To: Ford Trucks 80-96

Subject: FTE 80-96 - E4OD Fluid Changes

I use amsoil synthetic trans fluid in my 95 Powerstroke F-250 4WD E4OD and
change it at half the reccomnded interval. I installed an extra trans cooler
and a temp gaguge. So far no problems and we tow a 7200 lb travel trailer or
a 10000 lb. boat and trailer frequently.

Seems like a lot of the E4OD discussions keep coming back to fluid changes
every 20K miles or so, because the fluid breaks down.

My F150 has a 4-spd manual, but the used Windstar we bought 18 months ago
(22K miles) already had a rebuilt E4OD in it. I made them do a
transmission service then, but we're coming up for another.

Anyway, if breakdown of the fluid properties is a big problem, seems like a
perfect application for a synthetic. I think both Mobil 1 and Red Line
make synthetics that meet the Ford Mercon spec.

Any thoughts on this? Although expensive, I'm thinking of going this
route, but still continuing to change fluid at the recommended 20K miles.

Thanks!

Mark Salvetti
1986 F150
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:11:22 EST
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Transmission coolers

In a message dated 3/8/99 1:04:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Thiggins samaritan.edu writes:

>
Tom,
That is the cooler I spoke of in a previous post. It was originally designed
as an add on for the tranny in the Aerostar. The OEM tranny had low cooling
capacity and hence they added an extra couple of quarts to the cooling
capacity by adding the cooler. It is WAY too small to be of much if any at all
help in our larger, heavier trucks.
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
"Hazardous Material"
Wayne's Flareside Page
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:27:06 -0800
From: "Posluszny, Walt (POSL)"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: add-on cooler configuration

I used both, since at the time I lived in a 4 season climate, with many
mountains[read that near Denver]. I didn't want the tranny to run too cold
either [in the winter]. The rig never ran hot in the summer even with AC on
so I ran the fluid through the add-on cooler [first] to dump any extra heat
it had, then had it go through the radiator to maintain a constant temp.
This way it kept the tranny fluid at the coolant temp [which was always
o.k.]. In the winter it would actually heat the fluid back up after coming
from the add-on to the radiator. Seemed to make sense at the time.

If I lived in a hot climate all the time[read that Phoenix], I would
probably by pass the radiator cooler completely [would also help with engine
cooling on those 128 degree days] and put on the biggest add-on I could
find. Not too much worry about the cold weather. Walt

Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 01:24:09 EST
From: JSC721 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Transmission Coolers

Ok, I have a question about how you guys installed your transmission
coolers.
Did you use the trans cooler and the radiator trans cooler? Or did you
bypass
the radiator cooler and just hook up the transmission cooler??

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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 12:47:49 -0800
From: "Rob Bryan"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Transmission coolers

FWIW, with a 5.0 you'll have a 4R70W, not an E4OD.

Rob


> What about the additional tranny coolers that were "factory"?. I have 96
> F150 with a 302 and E40D(?)
> tranny that has a separate (in front of the radiator) tranny fluid cooler.
> I don't tow with this truck but live
> in Phoenix. Do I need a larger cooler for regular use? What about towing?
> I haven't finished paying
> for this thing and it is about out of warranty. I DON'T need to buy a new
> transmission this year.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> Tom in Phoenix
>
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>

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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 17:02:53 -0500
From: "Goodwin, Jerry"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Throttle Position Sensor on 7.3L IDI Diesel

I believe the item your looking for is mounted to the passenger side of the
injection pump.

- -----Original Message-----
From: WoodStck45 aol.com [mailto:WoodStck45 aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 1999 6:59 PM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com; perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Throttle Position Sensor on 7.3L IDI Diesel


Guys

We have a 1994 Ford F-250 ,7.3L IDI non-turbo diesel, H.D., E40D
(junk)(rebuilt). My dad got in it to drive it this morning and it was like
it
had no power what so ever. It was almost like it lost all its torque
overnight. When you put the truck in gear and drive it, it will never rev
over 2300 rpm's no matter how far you push the pedal down. But, if you push
the pedal to the floor it will stick wide open even after you left off,
therefore you have to shut the truck off going down the road and release it
under the hood. It will only rev to its governed engine rpm (i think it is
3800 but depends on the load) if it is locked in first or if it is in
neutral.
I thought it might be the fuel filter clogged up, but we just changed it.
So
i popped open the EEC and put the truck on the computer here at home and
code
"23" came up and translates into "Throttle Position Sensor". It kinda makes
sense i guess. Anyways (something else out of the ordinary) when the truck
is
cold and it is on "high idle" it makes more of a knocking sound when you
drive
it. Then after it warms up to a certain temp. it goes to normal idle (If
you
drive a Ford Diesel you will know exactly what i am talking about). Now
since
the truck acts like it has no power the engine makes the same sound at
normal
idle (knocking) as is does at high idle. I know there is nothing wrong with
the engine mechanically because i have heard all these sounds before. Do
think maybe the throttle position sensor possibly being bad could cause the
"knock" at normal idle? Do you guys know what it looks like, where its
at,
or how much a new one costs? I thought maybe it is where i release the
throttle when it sticks, but there are so many different parts there i don't
know which one it is. Any comments, answers, or suggestions will be
appreciated.

Thanks alot
Paul
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 17:07:22 -0500
From: "Goodwin, Jerry"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - F-150 Power Door Lock Problems

I've had this problem on the passenger side. Turns out the rubber boot that
protects the motor from water, cracks and splits. Once water runs down the
shaft and into the motor it is history. It can't get out--the other end is
sealed. It over $100 from dealer to replace. What i did was took out the
whole assembly and rebuilt the motor-it was a painstacking job! Might look
in he junk yard.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Shawn & Jennifer Clark [mailto:sd&jkclark tyler.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 1999 1:06 AM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - F-150 Power Door Lock Problems


I'm hoping someone can offer some guidance on the following problem.
I have a 1991 F-150 which has a sticky driver's side lock. The problem
appeared this Fall rather suddenly and has not gone away. I have
lubricated the lock with graphite but this seems to make little difference.
The action is hard to turn with key or by pulling or pushing the knob.
The power lock button rarely works now (and "protests" when it does.) The
passenger side works fine in all three modes (key, manual, power). Today I
pulled the inside panel off to work on it, but made little progress. I
lubricated everything, but this did not seem to help. Finally, I pulled
the torn rubber boot off of the actuator and sprayed penetrant down it's
shaft. This helped some, since the power lock began to work about 75% of
the time. I'm still uncertain as to what is making it stick, but I suspect
the actuator itself is binding. When moving the rod by hand it sometimes
is difficult to get moving. Anyone seen this same problem before? If so,
how do you get the actuator out? I could not find any screws or bolts to
remove, and was unable to pop it out. And I have no idea how to release
the push rod from the door latch assembly. There are clear signs that
someone had worked in the door in the past (I've had the truck for 18
months). My guess is that they replaced the poorly designed OEM power
window gears--as I had to do last year on the passenger side.

Thanks in advance,

Shawn
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:21:12 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Rear brakes

John Fleming writes: >> My '86 F150 rear brakes do not seem to be doing much.
With the rear jacked up and the engine at idle in gear the rear wheels will
still rotate when the brakes are applied unless I really push on the pedal. I
have replaced everything from the booster to the rear cylinders (including the
proportioning valve) without any change in effectiveness.

If you are holding the rear off the ground with an end lift that lets the rear
axle hang down, this is your problem. When checking rear brakes with antilock,
you must have the weight of the rear of the truck on the axle.(use a jack or
jack stands under the axle). There is a device in the system that "senses
weight" and if there is no weight, then you have practically no brakes in the
rear. If you will add, say 800/1000# to the bed and try it again,(lifting the
axle) I think you will see an amazing difference.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:01:01 -0500
From: "Bill McConnell"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Speedometer Quit Working

Have a 94 Lightning and the Speedometer as stopped working. I have checked
the fuses and they all seem to be fine. The Door locks, the keyless entry ,
inside dome light,cruse control, and part of the electric seats has also
stopped working. The Transmission is also shifting very erratic. Boy,
That's a lot of broke stuff. Can anyone shed any light on this problem. I
am a new truck owner and need help. I am weary of taking it to someone with
out knowing something about the problem. Help!

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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 18:10:28 -0500
From: S Spaulding
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Transmission Coolers

Believe me, if Ford didn't think it was absolutely neccessary to control the
transmission temperature, they wouldn't spend the extra money on a thermostat.

Steve

Chuck wrote:



>
>
> > and then through the in-tank cooler, which will warm it up in the
> > winter.
>
> hmmm, never heard of a winter option, the trans fluid will warm up, even in
> the coldest winters. I don't know about routing it this way... it would
> defeat the purpose of over heating in the summer time.
>
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:13:14 EST
From: JSC721 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Transmission Coolers

Hi Wayne,
Thanks for the info. I live down here in Clearwater, Florida and it gets hot
in the summer months. On my E-250 It has a ford factory tranny cooler, tranny
to cooler via radiator. Its not a very large tranny cooler. Someone told me
that drove a sanatation truck that the tranny cooler was used alone without
the help of the radiator cooler on that big truck. I need my tranny cool all
the time. I dont tow much with it. But I have about 2,000 or more lbs of
detailing supplies on it most of the time and want to keep my Hard working C-6
tranny cool as a cucumber.

Joe
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 99 16:15:58 PST
From: don neomagic.com (Donald Paauw)
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: '86 F150 rear brakes

I'm a little late because I'm getting the digest version
but I'd like the address.

Thanks,
Don


>Also, I just bought the EEC-IV diagnostic/ troubleshooting software off
>the Web. What a great source of data. Pinouts, readings and all kinds of
>good info on testing sensors, codes etc. I can't remember the address off
>hand but if anyone wants it I will scare it up.
>
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 16:32:21 PST
From: "Jim Kudulis"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Speedometer Quit Working

I had a 92 F150. One day the speedo and the cruise went out, no fuse
problem. Could not figure it out. Then I left the lights on at the airport
for a couple of days. After the jump start everything worked just fine
again. When the speedo stopped working again, I decided to pull the negative
terminal. Guess what, when I reconnected everything was fine. This
happened about once a month.
The only systems that were affected on mine were the cruise, speedo and hmmm
odometer.
Jim
On Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:01:01 -0500, Bill McConnell wrote:

> Have a 94 Lightning and the Speedometer as stopped working. I have
checked
> the fuses and they all seem to be fine. The Door locks, the keyless entry
,
> inside dome light,cruse control, and part of the electric seats has also
> stopped working. The Transmission is also shifting very erratic. Boy,
> That's a lot of broke stuff. Can anyone shed any light on this problem.
I
> am a new truck owner and need help. I am weary of taking it to someone
with
> out knowing something about the problem. Help!
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html





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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 19:15:48 -0800
From: Vogt Family
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Throttle Position Sensor on 7.3L IDI Diesel

On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, WoodStck45 aol.com wrote:

> So
> i popped open the EEC and put the truck on the computer here at home and code
> "23" came up and translates into "Throttle Position Sensor". It kinda makes
> sense i guess. Anyways (something else out of the ordinary) when the truck is
> cold and it is on "high idle" it makes more of a knocking sound when you drive
> it. Then after it warms up to a certain temp. it goes to normal idle (If you
> drive a Ford Diesel you will know exactly what i am talking about). Now since
> the truck acts like it has no power the engine makes the same sound at normal
> idle (knocking) as is does at high idle. I know there is nothing wrong with
> the engine mechanically because i have heard all these sounds before. Do
> think maybe the throttle position sensor possibly being bad could cause the
> "knock" at normal idle? Do you guys know what it looks like, where its at,
> or how much a new one costs? I thought maybe it is where i release the
> throttle when it sticks, but there are so many different parts there i don't
> know which one it is. Any comments, answers, or suggestions will be
> appreciated.

I don't know your truck that well since mine is a 6.9 but a lot of the
stuff is the same. That knock you hear when cold is some extra advance
it gives it when cold, like about 10 degrees if I recall. My truck's
power curve is severly affected by this, when on the cold advance it
bogs until at about 2000 rpm the power comes on like mad until it shifts
again. However the throttle must be pressed harder to get the same
power level out of it than hot.

All I am meaning to say is, does yours behave like it is cold all the
time? If so I would suspect whatever temperatiure switch controls the
fast idle and cold advance. However since your ECM has set a code I
would start from there first. The TPS is known to fail, it is not a
"live forever" part. It should not be too expensive. It should be
mounted on the rotating throttle shaft near the injector pump, and be
round with an electrical connector and some wires coming out of it. To
test one an analog ohmmeter is better than a digital one as you will be
able to see if there are any drops or spikes in the resistance as you
move it along, that might cause the computer troubles. Once you have
figured out what is the matter here, clear the ECM and resume
diagnosis. This would be the way I would do it, anyhow...

Birken
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:05:58 -0000
From: "Radoje Spasojevic"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Speedometer Quit Working

On a '94 you should be getting speedo info from the VSS (vehicle speed
sensor) and the eec probably uses the VSS info in determining shift points
so that might be one thing to look at closely.

Rade
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill McConnell
To: 80-96-list-digest ....


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