80-96-list-digest Tuesday, February 2 1999 Volume 03 : Number 029



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - ranger pinging
FTE 80-96 - Re: New (to me) truck, minor problems
FTE 80-96 - Speedometer Calibration
FTE 80-96 - Choked to death ?
Re: FTE 80-96 - ranger pinging
Re: FTE 80-96 - ranger pinging
RE: FTE 80-96 - Re: Dangerous Advice (was: Starting Fluid)
FTE 80-96 - RE: Good news/Bad news
FTE 80-96 - Rouge explosion
FTE 80-96 - Rim Difference Answer
FTE 80-96 - Improved Brakes
RE: FTE 80-96 - Starting & restarting
Re: FTE 80-96 - Choked to death ?
Re: FTE 80-96 - Choked to death ?
FTE 80-96 - Engine replacement
Re: FTE 80-96 - Choked to death ?
[none]
FTE 80-96 - Re:
FTE 80-96 - bad crank bearings in 351
FTE 80-96 - fast idle
FTE 80-96 - ADMIN: 1 Million visitors
FTE 80-96 - humidity fix
FTE 80-96 - RE.RE. Differential sucker

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Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 05:55:10 -0600
From: "Ralph Ward"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - ranger pinging

I have a strange (to me anyway) problem with my 91 Ranger. It pings badly
in 5th gear (bad enough that the truck vibrates enough to make your teeth
chatter), but not consistently. I am wondering if it is gasoline or dirt in
the fuel. It does seem to improve with a new tank of higher octane fuel.
It's hard to tell because it may only do it for a minute or so, or like
yesterday, it may not want to drive in 5th gear at all. It does not occur
in any other gear. Could it be a transmission problem? or perhaps some
communication between the computer and transmission?
with boundless ignorance:
Ralph ward


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Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 04:12:39 -0800
From: "Ferino, Chris"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: New (to me) truck, minor problems

The fuel gauge on my old '87 Bronco used to have a similar problem - it
would read totally Full, pinned to the right the same as Mike's, but it
wouldn't budge until the tank was about half empty. The sending unit in the
tank, so I've been told, is some sort of a 'resistive strip' that sends out
a different signal as it moves up and down in the tank, and after many years
the metal on that strip wears out to the point where it's grounding the
sender rubbing on it, indicating the 'pinned to the right' Full indication.
I never fixed mine - I just used the trip odometer and knew that when the
fuel gauge actually started moving, I generally had between 1/2 and 1/4 tank
left.

(I had the 32gal tank, so it was enough to last me more than a week of
driving. I got into the habit of filling up each Friday on the way home.
Problem solved. And I NEVER ran out of gas.)

- --Chris

> My '87 F-350 diesel has the exact same problem, and when both tanks are
> full, the gauge is pinned all the way to the right, way past the "F" mark.
> Because of the behavior on both tanks, I have to think the problem is
either
> in the dashboard or in the wiring, not the tank senders. I would also
> appreciate an answer.
>
> Mike
>
> Vogt Family wrote:
>
> Well, I finally went and got a "shiny" truck. It is an '86 F-250
> diesel. It has dual tanks but I don't think the fuel gauge is working
> quite right. It seems to have a tendencey to wander when full. It goes
> from 1/2 to 3/4 mark, from 1/2 to 1/4, etc. Seems mostly related to
> hill angle so I'm not too worried about that. However, when driving
> home today I waited until the needle got below the E line before fueling
> and the tank (rear) took only 9 gallons. I haven't had the chance to
> run the front down yet so I don't know about it. Also, the gauge
> position seems somewhat relative to temperature. Is there a known
> problem or am I going to have to diagnose it further?
>
> Birken
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Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:44:00 -0600
From: "Gourde, Darrin"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Speedometer Calibration

Can somebody tell me how to calibrate the speedometer for larger diameter
tires on 1992 and up F150s? If this was answered in the past I missed it.
Thanks

Darrin
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Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:50:19 -0800
From: "Dennis R. Fischer"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Choked to death ?

1986 Ford F250 4x4
351W with Duraspark II ignition

Here's the problem:
When cold, the engine fires right up and runs fine for several blocks of
driving and idling. After the engine temp starts warming up, it dies at idle
but will restart easily. Once the engine is completely warm, it runs fine.
The dying only occurs at idle but you can feel the engine being starved
during this phase of warmup. Especially when I let off the gas to coast.

The engine and carb have a 100 miles on a rebuild. The same problem existed
before the rebuild. All emission controls (PCV, fuel evaporative, EGR, spark
control, thermactor, exhaust, and deceleration) systems are connected but
where not checked during the rebuild.

My GUESS is that the problem comes from the emission control system. Does
anyone know if my guess is correct and if so, where do I start to fix the
problem?

Dennis


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Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 10:13:05 -0500
From: Chris Porter
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - ranger pinging

from the little bit that i do know, pinging is a sign of detonation, which
would explain why using a higher octane fuel is causing the pinging to
stop. if you dont know what detonation is, basically, it's when the engine
is bringing in so much air that when the fuel in the cylendar is ignited,
it creates an extra powerful explosion (well much more than the normal
explosion) the pings happens (i think) because the piston is being forced
down while it's trying to move up as a result of this explosion... when you
add more fuel or a higher octane, it reduces the power of the combustion.
this is a serious problem and should be taken care of.. have you dont any
work to your ranger? new exhaust, intake, headers etc? if so, detonation is
probably what is actually happening.
hope this helps
- -chris

ps, if i'm way off here, someone correct me :) i'm still a bit of a newbie
at this as well :)

At 05:55 AM 2/1/99 -0600, you wrote:
>I have a strange (to me anyway) problem with my 91 Ranger. It pings badly
>in 5th gear (bad enough that the truck vibrates enough to make your teeth
>chatter), but not consistently. I am wondering if it is gasoline or dirt in
>the fuel. It does seem to improve with a new tank of higher octane fuel.
>It's hard to tell because it may only do it for a minute or so, or like
>yesterday, it may not want to drive in 5th gear at all. It does not occur
>in any other gear. Could it be a transmission problem? or perhaps some
>communication between the computer and transmission?
>with boundless ignorance:
>Ralph ward
>
>
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>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----

"One cannot be betrayed if one has no people"
-Kobayashi
(The Usual Suspects)
(1996 polygram entertainment)

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----
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Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:09:50 -0500
From: Andre Roy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - ranger pinging

Chris Porter wrote:
>
> from the little bit that i do know, pinging is a sign of detonation, which
> would explain why using a higher octane fuel is causing the pinging to
> stop. if you dont know what detonation is, basically, it's when the engine
> is bringing in so much air that when the fuel in the cylendar is ignited,
> it creates an extra powerful explosion (well much more than the normal
> explosion) the pings happens (i think) because the piston is being forced
> down while it's trying to move up as a result of this explosion...
>
Sort of. When the fuel/air mixture is ignited in the cylinder, you want
it to burn (not explode) in a controlled manner. The sparkplug fires off
the mixture and then the flame progresses across the cylinder from that
point. This all happens fairly quickly, mind you, since at 3000RPM,
there are 25 "events" per second. Ping, or preignition or detonation is
when that fuel does not burn evenly. Part of it ignites because the
pressure in the cylinder is too high or a hot spot sets of the charge.
This causes the pressure in the cylinder to get way too high and can
destroy the piston, connecting rods, bearing crankshaft and other
assorted goodies. This can be an impediment, not only to forward motion,
but also to your recovery from Christmas bills. :-(




when you
> add more fuel or a higher octane, it reduces the power of the combustion.
>
Reduces the "ignitability" of the fuel air mix.

> this is a serious problem and should be taken care of..
>
Most definitely.

> have you dont any
> work to your ranger? new exhaust, intake, headers etc? if so, detonation is
> probably what is actually happening.
>
All possible causes.

>
> At 05:55 AM 2/1/99 -0600, you wrote:
> >I have a strange (to me anyway) problem with my 91 Ranger. It pings badly
> >in 5th gear (bad enough that the truck vibrates enough to make your teeth
> >chatter), but not consistently. I am wondering if it is gasoline or dirt in
> >the fuel.
>
Could be cruddy gas. Not likely dirt.


> It does seem to improve with a new tank of higher octane fuel.
>
higher octane will reduce the ignitability of the fuel, so it does sound
like detonation.

> >It's hard to tell because it may only do it for a minute or so, or like
> >yesterday, it may not want to drive in 5th gear at all.
>
In fifth gear, the engine is turning lower revs, lower revs are more
condusive to preignition.


> It does not occur
> >in any other gear. Could it be a transmission problem?
>
It's possible that the transmission is somehow seizing and releasing,
yes. How's the oil level in the trans? When was is last changed and was
it changed with the correct fluid?

> or perhaps some
> >communication between the computer and transmission?
>
The computer doesn't communicate with a manual transmission, other than
to find out what gear the trans is in. So it's possible that it doesn't
know what gear it's in, don't know if that capability is in the
software.

First, check the transmission fluid and level. Then see if you can get
some codes out of the computer.

Also, check your timing. It may be too far advanced.

Sorry if this message is disjointed, trying to upgrade an AS/400 as I
type....

:-(



- --
Andre
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Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:36:09 -0700
From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Re: Dangerous Advice (was: Starting Fluid)

Casey,

That's exactly the point!

Some things we take for granted, like common sense & safety during
discussions on this list. How can we feel comfortable giving advice and the
benefit of our experience without worrying about the possibility of our
comments hurting people who use poor judgement?

Scott

Casey R. Vandor wrote:

> and though it would be nice, common sense
> is something alot of people don't seem to have a whole lot of... I
> agree theres no need for apology,
>
>
> children who don't read anything they use and have no
> business around a motor.
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Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:10:45 -0500
From: Paul M Radecki
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: Good news/Bad news

I posted:
>>Bad News! It has a problem when the humidity is high. If I park it
>>outside for a few hours in heavy rain or fog it develops a miss. On
>>occasion it will not start at all: it fires, then stumbles and dies and
>>will not fire again.>

Brian and David replied:
> If you look under your hood at the back side you will see the
>rubber that seals the back side only goes about 3/4 way over, so
>when it rains or high moistures is present it dripps right on the
terminal.

>Usually problems starting in the rain are ignition related. Maybe the
coil
>or dist cap. I doubt the computer module is rainy weather sensitive.
Also,
>I've seen a TSB on what Brian said about water getting into that big
harness
>laying on the drivers side fender well. If you need me to look it up I
can.

I think you guys might have found the problem. Thank you very much for
the insight. The distributor cap had been replaced, along with almost
everything else ignition-related, but not those connectors... I think
every wire in the whole truck is routed through the firewall at the point
you specified (under/beside the brake master cylinder). I poured a cup
of water on the trailing edge of the hood, and sure enough it ran down
and soaked the connectors. What a dumb design! I covered the connectors
with electricians' tape, but I would be very interested in any TSB
concerning a more permanent fix for this problem. I might even get some
more weatherstripping for the hood, or even fabricate a drip rail in
there to protect the connectors.
Thanks again... you guys are great.
lordjanusz juno.com
'94 F150 300ci ***PAID FOR AT LAST***



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Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 17:27:21 -0500
From: Andre Roy
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Rouge explosion

Not Ford Truck, but Ford.

There was a massive explosion at Ford's Rouge plant in Dearborn. THe
explosion was in a boiler room at the pwerplant. One is known dead.
Three missing and about 16 have been sent to hospitals in Dearborn, Ann
Arbour and Toledo. The Rouge facility is closed for now.

Willam Clay Ford said that there was not warning or phone call to Ford.

A UAW spokesman said it was the worst he's seen since Viet-Nam.

The explosion happened about 1:00 PM Eastern Time. The fire was under
control about 3:00 PM but still burning at 5:00PM.

Judging by the pictures on TV, the explosion was massive with several
crushed pickups and vans shown.
- --
Andre, Somewhere ...
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Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:37:18 EST
From: WoodStck45 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Rim Difference Answer

Brew,

Thank you for answering my question. I would say that the back spacing is off
by 3 or 4 inches on my 8 lug rims. I will try to find the correct rim for my
truck with the correct back spacing at a junkyard, and if i can't i'll take
your advice and e-mail you directly.

Thanks
Paul
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Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 18:20:15 -0500
From: Tom Gunby
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Improved Brakes

Just completed replacement of the front brake pads and turning the
rotors on my '86 F-150 to cure a "pulsing" sensation when stopping.
Problem was an uneven right front rotor. Autozone turned the rotors
for $6.00 each while I waited. Truck now stops with no pulsing.
Thanks for those on this group (you know who you are) that offered
suggestions and instruction.
Tom Gunby

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Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:43:02 -0600
From: "Chuck"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Starting & restarting

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com]On
> Behalf Of ROlson1039 aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 1999 12:25 PM
> To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Starting & restarting
>
>
> run the computer codes a sensor is acting up

OK, I did this and came up with 634, the Manual Position
Lever (MLP) sensor has a reading to high or too low. I
have reset the codes using the "remove the wire during
code flashing" and the code has not come back up again.

There is also another strange problem that I noticed. I
have started the truck and let it run for 30 mins. You
know the small water tube that appears to come out of
the intake and runs across the top of the radiator and
into the filler neck ?? well, its cold all the time and
this was never like this before. So, I turned on the
heater and I get continuos hot air, so I assume the
water pump is working. Both upper and lower radiator
hoses are hot and the radiator is hot, so now I am
assuming that the thermostat is working. any ideas?

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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:56:18 -0500
From: troyw mfi.net (Troy Williams)
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Choked to death ?

On 1 Feb 99, at 6:50, Dennis R. Fischer wrote:

>1986 Ford F250 4x4
>351W with Duraspark II ignition

I've got something of the same problem on the really cold
mornings, which down here in Florida is around 40 degrees or
under. I've got an '84 F-150, with a 302, about 90,000 original miles.

Anyway, the truck will run fine for a couple blocks, and then
afterward, if I let off the gas, the headlights will get real dim, and
the engine starts idling real rough. I am sometimes able to keep
the engine running, but then after maybe about two times that I
might have to stop, the engine finally dies on me.

I have no idea what is causing the problem, but would like some
advice on how to take resolve this little problem. Thanks.

You might be a redneck if... You stop and pick up furniture
others have thrown out. - Jeff Foxworthy


Troy Williams
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mfi.net/~troyw
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Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 20:19:28 -0500
From: Andre Roy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Choked to death ?

Troy Williams wrote:
>
> On 1 Feb 99, at 6:50, Dennis R. Fischer wrote:
>
> >1986 Ford F250 4x4
> >351W with Duraspark II ignition
>
> I've got something of the same problem on the really cold
> mornings, which down here in Florida is around 40 degrees or
> under.
>
:-) when it's -40 we can talk cold! ;-)


> I've got an '84 F-150, with a 302, about 90,000 original miles.
>
Not to pick on you or anything, but just a silly question I always
wanted to ask, how manu UNoriginal miles? ;-)



> Anyway, the truck will run fine for a couple blocks, and then
> afterward, if I let off the gas, the headlights will get real dim, and
> the engine starts idling real rough. I am sometimes able to keep
> the engine running, but then after maybe about two times that I
> might have to stop, the engine finally dies on me.
>
My guess is that the head lights is just a symptom, they dim and stuff
as the engine slows way down. My guess on this is icing. Does it take a
couple of minutes to restart and then it's more or less ok? Especially
bad in high humidity?

Then I guess it's icing. Check the crossover or heat riser or whatever
it's called that pumps some heat to the intake. As the air passes
through the venturi, the pressure lowers, and with the lower pressure,
the temperature lowers and the humidity in the air gets below its' dew
point and freezes.

>
> You might be a redneck if... You stop and pick up furniture
> others have thrown out. - Jeff Foxworthy
>
uhhmmm, what if you wear a parka while doing it? ;-)

- --
Andre, Somewhere ...
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Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:58:29 -0500
From: "Robert Bowman"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Engine replacement

It's time to replace the engine in my 86 Bronco 302 F.I.
Does anyone kmow which years of the 302 will bolt right in with the minimum
of hassle. I'd like to go with the 351 W , but don't want to spend the
extra time to make it work.

Thanks for any help.
Robert


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Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:03:17 EST
From: RQTHOMSON aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Choked to death ?

Don't know if that year has a carb or not, but my 83 300 six was suffering
similar problems. I finally found that the choke was shutting back off after a
few miles on cold (
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Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:19:59 -0500
From: "R. Kent Cripps"
Subject: [none]

I have an 81 F150 Ranger with a 302 and an automatic transmission. The 2 bbl
carb with an electric choke had been replaced by a previous owner with a 2
bbl carb and a mechanical choke. This was then converted both TO and FROM a
manual choke. I've been having no end of troubles adjusting the carb and
choke so that it starts when cold or hot, or so that the truck is even
'drivable'. I'm considering a conversion to EFI as an option to make these
problems go away permanently. Some of my other options include replacing the
carb and choke; and replacing the truck.

What I would like to know is:
1. Is the conversion to EFI advisable?
2. Other than the intake system, what other parts will need to be changed
(exhaust manifolds, sensors, etc) to convert to EFI?
3. Anything else that may help guide my decision.

Kent

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Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:28:33 -0000
From: "Radoje Spasojevic"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re:

To convert an engine to EFI you will need the following:
- -The EFI intake manifold and all asociated parts (throttle body,
injectors, fuel rail, etc.)
- -Exhaust y-pipe with fitting for O2 sensor
- -EFI wiring harness with EEC computer
- -MAP sensor and vacuum hoses
- -Approriate emissions equipment (EGR, Thermactor, etc.)

I'm sure there is something I have forgotten but someone else will fiil it
in. You might be better off pulling your existing engine, selling it, and
then purchasing a complete EFI engine from a wrecking yard. You might
actually save money, and definitely have less headaches.

Rade
- -----Original Message-----
From: R. Kent Cripps
To: 80-96-List-Digest
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 3:27 AM


>I have an 81 F150 Ranger with a 302 and an automatic transmission. The 2
bbl
>carb with an electric choke had been replaced by a previous owner with a 2
>bbl carb and a mechanical choke. This was then converted both TO and FROM a
>manual choke. I've been having no end of troubles adjusting the carb and
>choke so that it starts when cold or hot, or so that the truck is even
>'drivable'. I'm considering a conversion to EFI as an option to make these
>problems go away permanently. Some of my other options include replacing
the
>carb and choke; and replacing the truck.
>
>What I would like to know is:
>1. Is the conversion to EFI advisable?
>2. Other than the intake system, what other parts will need to be changed
>(exhaust manifolds, sensors, etc) to convert to EFI?
>3. Anything else that may help guide my decision.
>
>Kent
>
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Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:52:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Shepler
Subject: FTE 80-96 - bad crank bearings in 351

I have a 351 in a F-350 with noisy crank bearings at 40 -45 mph or
higher. Does anyone have a semi-educated to educated guess how many
miles I might get out of this engine if I run it less than 40 - 45 mph?




_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:21:32 -0600
From: "Harris, Scott"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - fast idle

Had my '85 F150 since new and it has always fast idled when cold-started,
never caused a problem and have 185,000 miles on the 302.
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Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 01:44:12 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 80-96 - ADMIN: 1 Million visitors

Hi gang!

Its official! Just compiled the January logs and we
had our one millionth visitor to the Ford Truck
Enthusiasts web site late in the month. In our first
year, we had slightly over 100,000 visitors and over
900,000 in the second year.

Our monthly visitor growth has been about 19% since we
started. Current list membership hovers around 4,000.
Many had privately expressed a concern this past summer
about FTE's ability to handle the growth. We've taken
steps which we believe have been successful:

- - The BBS has offset the mailing list growth and made it
manageable. Hit and run subscribers aren't as common
anymore.

- - The new classifieds are not only far more powerful,
they also require less of my time.

- - The new chat is virtually maintenance free (although
its difficult to use the first time around).

- - Ordering on the web site means I don't have to spend
time each evening checking the PO box (now we check on
Tuesdays and Saturdays). This has been very important
because cash flow was suffering again and we needed to
pay for the classifieds software and server upgrades
(the load is getting huge, close to 200,000 file hits
per day). Our costs have gone way up lately.

Pictorial submissions have gone way up recently too, with
as many as 10 pictorial submissions per week!

Look for more additions to our content as we continue to
grow. Thank you to everyone for making FTE the community
it has become! You're really a great bunch! Hope to
meet some of you at the Pigeon Forge Supernationals.

Regards,
Ken Payne
Admin

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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:27:41 -0600
From: "Harris, Scott"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - humidity fix

Paul,

You cured my problem when they cured yours about the engine missing when
humidity was high. My '85 302 didn't start doing this until the past couple
of months and I new this was the cause but didn't know the cure. I also had
a fuel relay problem with it getting wet when a mechanic removed it from
it's mounting spot on the inner left fender and just let it lay on the
plastic fender above the tire, letting any water that got inside the
compartment run into the relay. I just remounted it on the fender.....

---

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