80-96-list-digest Wednesday, June 2 1999 Volume 03 : Number 154



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 80-96 - k&n filters
FTE 80-96 - Another EFI dilemma
FTE 80-96 - Diesel Advice Needed
Re: FTE 80-96 - OD boggs engine
RE: FTE 80-96 - OD boggs engine
FTE 80-96 - Re: A question about old Fords
Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesel Advice Needed
Re: FTE 80-96 - Another EFI dilemma
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: A question about old Fords
Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesel Advice Needed
Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesel Advice Needed
Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesel Advice Needed
Re: FTE 80-96 - OD boggs engine
Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesel Advice Needed
FTE 80-96 - Rancho suspension on a '93 Bronco
RE: FTE 80-96 - hard starting
Re: FTE 80-96 - hard starting
FTE 80-96 - FTE 80-96 Re: Electrical problem
Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesel Advice Needed
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: A question about old Fords
FTE 80-96 - 89 E250 WONT START

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 06:38:24 EDT
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - k&n filters

In a message dated 5/31/99 3:25:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
2insane excite.com writes:


filtercharger was about $150 in the summitracing mag for a f-series but only
~$120 for a mustang. What would the difference be? I thought they both use
the same 5.0L motor. >>
The mounting points for the F150 and the Stang are different. The F150
Filtercharger is a 9" cone. The Filtercharger for the Stang is a 7" cone.
Also what year model do you have, that will make a size difference too being
as Massair on the trucks didn't come out until 94-95 model years. As far as
the mileage goes, I saw a 1-2 mpg difference between the stock and the K and
N stock replacement, but I saw a 2-3 mph gain from the stock replacement to
the cone.
My .02,
Wayne Foy,
'94 Flareside SC (Massair)
"Hazardous Material"
Wayne's Page
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:44:07 -0400
From: Mark_Halpain ingerrand.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Another EFI dilemma

Hey Bob Kennedy,
I was towing the bass boat yesterday when the "89" 5.0 F150 started
losing power. I had to pull off the four lane and ended up blocking an
intersection with truck and boat. Before it completely died it started
missing like there was water in the gas so I switched tanks but could
not save her. I checked the fuel rail for pressure (ok). I checked
rotor button(replaced). All it would do is turn over but never hit. To
make matters worse I ended up being towed home by one of those
chev#$%. Anyway I hope you keep me informed as to what you find out on
your truck because I bet mine is the same thing. As soon as mine is
running again I'll inform you to what the fix was.

Mark Halpain


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 06:40:26 PDT
From: "Ed Greenberg"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Diesel Advice Needed

Greetin's,

I'm newly subscribed to your list, hoping to pick up some pointers on buying
a used F250 or F350 for RV towing. I'd like a diesel for fuel economy and
engine life.

I've been warned to look for the Harvester (Navstar) diesel, not the older
Ford Diesel. Nonetheless, I don't want to buy a very late model truck, for
cost reasons.

My basic requirements are: Good F250/F350 diesel, mileage appropriate to age
(maybe 10-12k per year). Navstar Diesel. Trailer Package. Automagic
transmission. Cruise Control. Desirable: Extended cab, cap or tonneau cover.

So, can somebody tell me what the cutoff age is where I can expect to find
the newer Navstar diesels rather than the older Ford diesels?

Any other advice for the newbie purchaser will be appreciated.



_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:09:35 -0400
From: "Troy Williams"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - OD boggs engine

On 28 May 99, at 17:53, Bob Kennedy wrote:

>Take a look on the door post at the Spec plate. It'll list the Axle/Trans Codes.
>You can either de-cipher them with a Haynes or Chilton's if you have one.
>I do if you don't so let me know the code and I'll look it up.

I don't have a Chilton's or Haynes manual just yet. Kinda hard to
find them around here. Since I am working at the Carquest
distribution center for the state of Florida, I guess I could go on over
and take a look to see if they have one over there or not.

Anyway, the Trans code is "T" while the Axle is 19. If you could
give me some information on it, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

You might be a redneck if... Your best sofa came out of a Chevrolet.
- Jeff Foxworthy


Troy Williams
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:39:09 -0400
From: "Ratcliff, Dale"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - OD boggs engine

You can check the codes in the manuals at the local library. They have most
of the information you will need.

Dale Ratcliff
Email : dratc Telxon.com
92 F150SC



- -----Original Message-----
From: Troy Williams [mailto:troyw netzero.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 9:10 AM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - OD boggs engine


On 28 May 99, at 17:53, Bob Kennedy wrote:

>Take a look on the door post at the Spec plate. It'll list the Axle/Trans
Codes.
>You can either de-cipher them with a Haynes or Chilton's if you have one.
>I do if you don't so let me know the code and I'll look it up.

I don't have a Chilton's or Haynes manual just yet. Kinda hard to
find them around here. Since I am working at the Carquest
distribution center for the state of Florida, I guess I could go on over
and take a look to see if they have one over there or not.

Anyway, the Trans code is "T" while the Axle is 19. If you could
give me some information on it, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

You might be a redneck if... Your best sofa came out of a Chevrolet.
- Jeff Foxworthy


Troy Williams
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 07:48:25 +0000
From: Ken Justice
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: A question about old Fords

Hello,

Please forgive this off the subject question, but so far I haven't been
able to find an answer. (I'm curious about this after having ridden
around in an old Model T this Memorial Day weekend.)

Maybe one of you know the answer. (I have asked several oldtimers and no
one seems to know.)

What did the "T" and "A" stand for in the old Model T and Model A?

Regards,

Ken Justice
Discover the Working Mat!
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.workingmat.com
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:59:13 -0400
From: Mike Sloane
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesel Advice Needed

I think you have it backwards. the International Harvester (Navistar) 6.9 V-8 is
the older engine that was used through 1988(?) or thereabouts. It is not a bad
engine and is much simpler than the newer Ford engine. The only problem I am
aware of is that some engines developed pinholes in the cylinders which allowed
coolant to get into the engine.

You should be aware that while fuel usage will be somewhat less than a
comparable gas engine, fuel costs may actually be greater than regular gas in
some areas. Also, you need to change oil and filters more often than a gas
engine. On the plus side, you will not have all the complexity of modern
ignition and electronic fuel injections systems that gas engines suffer from.
Diesel engines suffer more in performance at high altitudes than gas engines, so
pulling an RV up Pike's Peak can be a challenge.

I have Ford trucks with both the 6.9 diesel and the 300 cid straight 6 and am
happy with both.

Mike

Ed Greenberg wrote:

> Greetin's,
>
> I'm newly subscribed to your list, hoping to pick up some pointers on buying
> a used F250 or F350 for RV towing. I'd like a diesel for fuel economy and
> engine life.
>
> I've been warned to look for the Harvester (Navstar) diesel, not the older
> Ford Diesel. Nonetheless, I don't want to buy a very late model truck, for
> cost reasons.
>
> My basic requirements are: Good F250/F350 diesel, mileage appropriate to age
> (maybe 10-12k per year). Navstar Diesel. Trailer Package. Automagic
> transmission. Cruise Control. Desirable: Extended cab, cap or tonneau cover.
>
> So, can somebody tell me what the cutoff age is where I can expect to find
> the newer Navstar diesels rather than the older Ford diesels?
>
> Any other advice for the newbie purchaser will be appreciated.
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.msn.com
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

- --

- ------------
Mike Sloane
Allamuchy NJ
(msloane att.net)



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:25:55 -0700
From: Bob Kennedy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Another EFI dilemma

Hey Mark,
You got it!

Bob


Mark_Halpain ingerrand.com wrote:

> Hey Bob Kennedy,
> I was towing the bass boat yesterday when the "89" 5.0 F150 started
> losing power. I had to pull off the four lane and ended up blocking an
> intersection with truck and boat. Before it completely died it started
> missing like there was water in the gas so I switched tanks but could
> not save her. I checked the fuel rail for pressure (ok). I checked
> rotor button(replaced). All it would do is turn over but never hit. To
> make matters worse I ended up being towed home by one of those
> chev#$%. Anyway I hope you keep me informed as to what you find out on
> your truck because I bet mine is the same thing. As soon as mine is
> running again I'll inform you to what the fix was.
>
> Mark Halpain
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:29:00 -0700
From: Bob Kennedy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: A question about old Fords

If memory serves (BTW I'm 40). The T and A were the first initials of Henry
Ford's kids. He was literally naming them after his family.

Bob


Ken Justice wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Please forgive this off the subject question, but so far I haven't been
> able to find an answer. (I'm curious about this after having ridden
> around in an old Model T this Memorial Day weekend.)
>
> Maybe one of you know the answer. (I have asked several oldtimers and no
> one seems to know.)
>
> What did the "T" and "A" stand for in the old Model T and Model A?
>
> Regards,
>
> Ken Justice
> Discover the Working Mat!
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.workingmat.com
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:44:20 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesel Advice Needed

>I think you have it backwards. the International Harvester (Navistar) 6.9
>V-8 is
>the older engine that was used through 1988(?) or thereabouts. It is not a bad
>engine and is much simpler than the newer Ford engine. The only problem I am
>aware of is that some engines developed pinholes in the cylinders which
>allowed
>coolant to get into the engine.

They are all International (Navistar) diesels. The 6.9, 7.3, and the 7.3 turbo.

>
>You should be aware that while fuel usage will be somewhat less than a
>comparable gas engine, fuel costs may actually be greater than regular gas in
>some areas. Also, you need to change oil and filters more often than a gas
>engine. On the plus side, you will not have all the complexity of modern
>ignition and electronic fuel injections systems that gas engines suffer from.
>Diesel engines suffer more in performance at high altitudes than gas
>engines, so
>pulling an RV up Pike's Peak can be a challenge.
>

The diesels up to the 7.3 turbo have mechanical injection and no
electronics whatsoever. (If you have a stick shift one you can tow it to
start and you would not even need a battery- the battery is just for glow
plugs, starter and the rest of the truck's electrical system). The turbo
engine has some computer control on the injection.

Diesel fuel costs usually vary with the time of year- summer is cheaper and
winter higher because heating fuel demand is up.

Oil change frequency is the same - every 3000 miles in my opinion. The
diesel takes 10 or 11 quarts. Use good CD or better rated oil- heck I use
that in everything.

Diesels are simple and require little maintanance other than oil and filter
changes. I would not be afraid of high miles if it was not overheated or
not maintained.

A good diesel should start good when it is cold and when it is hot. If not,
the rings are probably bad and you are not getting good compression.

Gearing has lots to do with your fuel milage- we get 14 mpg with a 7.3 in
an 89 F250 4x4 with C-6 automatic and 4.10 gears. It really should have
overdrive which would probably bring it up to around 20 mpg. The engine has
plenty of torque, but screams all the time with that gearing.

I like diesels a lot. I have had many Mercedes diesels, diesel tractors,
and diesel trucks.


Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
Web site design http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://hitechdesign.com
Desktop Publishing service
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:45:28 -0500
From: "James Petty"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesel Advice Needed

How I understand it.... the Power Stroke is the engine to get. I've
heard
you could get a Power Stroke in 94 with a manual but I've also been
told
that 95 was the first year of the Power Stroke.

I just got a 97 F350 crew cab Power Stroke and I must say.. I LIKE IT
!

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Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 20:36:50 -0400
From: S Spaulding
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesel Advice Needed

All three 7.3 engines (normally aspirated, IDI turbo, and DI turbo
(Powerstroke) were available in MY94, but not in all models, and not for
the whole year. It was pretty confusing. In MY95, they were all
Powerstrokes.

Steve S.

James Petty wrote:
>
> How I understand it.... the Power Stroke is the engine to get. I've
> heard
> you could get a Power Stroke in 94 with a manual but I've also been
> told
> that 95 was the first year of the Power Stroke.
>
> I just got a 97 F350 crew cab Power Stroke and I must say.. I LIKE IT
> !
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 20:45:27 -0400
From: S Spaulding
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - OD boggs engine

Troy,

I don't remember your year and model, but for MY91, transmission code
T=AOD (not E4OD) and axle code 19 is a 3800# with 3.55:1 gears (not
limited slip).

Steve S.

Troy Williams wrote:
>
> On 28 May 99, at 17:53, Bob Kennedy wrote:
>
> >Take a look on the door post at the Spec plate. It'll list the Axle/Trans Codes.
> >You can either de-cipher them with a Haynes or Chilton's if you have one.
> >I do if you don't so let me know the code and I'll look it up.
>
> I don't have a Chilton's or Haynes manual just yet. Kinda hard to
> find them around here. Since I am working at the Carquest
> distribution center for the state of Florida, I guess I could go on over
> and take a look to see if they have one over there or not.
>
> Anyway, the Trans code is "T" while the Axle is 19. If you could
> give me some information on it, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
>
> You might be a redneck if... Your best sofa came out of a Chevrolet.
> - Jeff Foxworthy
>
> Troy Williams
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 17:51:31 -0700
From: johny
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesel Advice Needed

More extensive information can be found at :
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ford -diesel. com/ See the forums section.

I'm not sure when the first ford diesels were available, but the
IDI (indirect injection) were in pre 94 trucks. These enginese were
non-turbo charged from Ford, but there are many aftermarket
vendors (banks, hypermax, others??).

Around 94 - 94.5 there was a turbo-diesel option that was
a predecessor to the current "powerstroke" engine. I believe this
version is an "indirect injection".


94.5 - 97 I believe is the "direct injection" + turbo is what most of
us know as the "powerstroke".

No 98 version.

99 version of the powerstroke adds an intercooler and wastegated turbo.


All were made by International Harvester, which at some point became
Navistar.

Someone had mentioned "cavitation" or pin-hole effect. This is apparently an
issue with All diesels but more prone to the fords, due to the "sleeved"
cylinders. There's a whole history/mixup between Ford/Navistar why/how this
happened.

This is the thing you must be most watchful on a used diesel.
If you have it, i'm not sure what the solution is. But if you don't
have it, there's lot of PM (preventitive maintennance) that can be done.

The folks on the website above can answer lots of questions.
Many of your concerns have been addressed before already.

For towing, the PSD is a fine piece of hardware. :-). I have a 99.

Good luck,

- -john

Ed Greenberg wrote:

> Greetin's,
>
> I'm newly subscribed to your list, hoping to pick up some pointers on buying
> a used F250 or F350 for RV towing. I'd like a diesel for fuel economy and
> engine life.
>
> I've been warned to look for the Harvester (Navstar) diesel, not the older
> Ford Diesel. Nonetheless, I don't want to buy a very late model truck, for
> cost reasons.
>
> My basic requirements are: Good F250/F350 diesel, mileage appropriate to age
> (maybe 10-12k per year). Navstar Diesel. Trailer Package. Automagic
> transmission. Cruise Control. Desirable: Extended cab, cap or tonneau cover.
>
> So, can somebody tell me what the cutoff age is where I can expect to find
> the newer Navstar diesels rather than the older Ford diesels?
>
> Any other advice for the newbie purchaser will be appreciated.
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.msn.com
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 21:50:37 -0400
From: "Francisco J. Pance"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Rancho suspension on a '93 Bronco

Hello Everybody:

Has anyone had any experience installing a full Rancho suspension sys
(with quad shocks up front & dash-mounted control) on a late model
Bronc?
Are these suspensions any good?
I'd appreciate any comments & info on the topic.

Thanx a bunch,

Frank
linguacorp true.net
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:03:04 -0400
From: "Troy Williams"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - hard starting

On 28 May 99, at 22:40, Harris, Scott wrote:

>My '85 302 is fuel injected and has a computer. I was worried about this
>when I bought it new but at 195,000 miles I can't complain but if I did it
>wouls be because all the aftermarket goodies don't apply until '86!

Hmmmmm. Then I guess they changed out the engine on the one
truck I was looking at then.

When was the first year that Ford started using computers in their
F series pickups?

You might be a redneck if... You think 'Ross Perot' is how your
cousin Ross got out of jail early. - Jeff Foxworthy


Troy Williams
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:25:36 -0400
From: "Todd Schiller"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - hard starting

The computer/fuel injection started on the 302's during the last half of the
1985 production year. After spending a lot of time and trial fitting I've
found most aftermarket accessories fit the 85 302 w/fuel injection.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Troy Williams
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 10:08 PM
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - hard starting


On 28 May 99, at 22:40, Harris, Scott wrote:

>My '85 302 is fuel injected and has a computer. I was worried about this
>when I bought it new but at 195,000 miles I can't complain but if I did it
>wouls be because all the aftermarket goodies don't apply until '86!

Hmmmmm. Then I guess they changed out the engine on the one
truck I was looking at then.

When was the first year that Ford started using computers in their
F series pickups?

You might be a redneck if... You think 'Ross Perot' is how your
cousin Ross got out of jail early. - Jeff Foxworthy


Troy Williams
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:54:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: oldgoldold webtv.net (George Hennessey)
Subject: FTE 80-96 - FTE 80-96 Re: Electrical problem

Sounds similar to a problem I had when the '86 F-250 was only 2 or 3
years old. The engine started fine when cold, but had poor or no
cranking when hot. A new starter and battery didn't help. Turned out
to be the battery ground cable, which had most of the wire strands
broken at the engine block terminal.

As best as I can recollect, the cable was too short, so that engine
motion caused more flex than the wire strands could tolerate.

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Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 00:29:09 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesel Advice Needed

>Around 94 - 94.5 there was a turbo-diesel option that was
>a predecessor to the current "powerstroke" engine. I believe this
>version is an "indirect injection".
>
>
>94.5 - 97 I believe is the "direct injection" + turbo is what most of
>us know as the "powerstroke".

I wonder if there is much difference in power between the direct and
indirect injection engines? Direct injection makes for a little easier
starting when it is really cold, but is usually noisier.

>All were made by International Harvester, which at some point became
>Navistar.

This was about 10 years ago when Case bought out IHC. Case did not buy the
truck division and it became Navistar. Fiat-New Holland is buying Case now
and I have heard that Volvo has its eyes on Navistar.

>
>Someone had mentioned "cavitation" or pin-hole effect. This is apparently an
>issue with All diesels but more prone to the fords, due to the "sleeved"
>cylinders. There's a whole history/mixup between Ford/Navistar why/how this
>happened.

I do not think these small Ford/Navistar V-8 diesels have sleeves. The
Cummins 5.9 does not either. The larger Navistar V-8 diesel 8.2 L probably
does, but it is a real truck engine.



Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://little-mountain.com/blake
Web site design http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://hitechdesign.com
Desktop Publishing service
"Society is safest when the criminals don't know who's armed."


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 00:52:57 -0500
From: Blake Malkamaki
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: A question about old Fords

>Hello,
>
>Please forgive this off the subject question, but so far I haven't been
>able to find an answer. (I'm curious about this after having ridden
>around in an old Model T this Memorial Day weekend.)
>
>Maybe one of you know the answer. (I have asked several oldtimers and no
>one seems to know.)
>
>What did the "T" and "A" stand for in the old Model T and Model A?
>

I believe they were just consecutive model designations, many of which were
never produced for sale.

I think Henry's first was the original model A, then B and so forth. When
the model T was discontinued and the new model A introduced, he started the
alphabet over again. I think the model B was the last let designation. Then
the '32 Ford V-8 came out and I think that was it for the letters.

Blake
Little Mountain
Concord, Ohio
Early Oil Well Historian
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Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 01:37:18 EDT
From: JSC721 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 89 E250 WONT START

Hey Fellas,
I have an 89 e250 with a 300 6cyl. engine. I was out working today with my....


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