80-96-list-digest Thursday, May 6 1999 Volume 03 : Number 127



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - Dead Big Red
Re: FTE 80-96 - Dead Big Red
FTE 80-96 - 95' 5.0 Ping
FTE 80-96 - Brake woes/ignition kill
FTE 80-96 - Re: mixed info
FTE 80-96 - Serious Electrical Problem
RE: FTE 80-96 - EVP(EGR) troubleshooting
FTE 80-96 - Parts
Re: FTE 80-96 - ignition kill
Re: FTE 80-96 - Parts
Re: FTE 80-96 - 95' 5.0 Ping
FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure on 86 F250 diesel
FTE 80-96 - Perfect Timing...Thanks!
Re: FTE 80-96 - Serious Electrical Problem
FTE 80-96 - hard starting
Re: FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure on 86 F250 diesel
FTE 80-96 - Intake snorkel
FTE 80-96 - rear tank fuel pump
FTE 80-96 - Website
Re: FTE 80-96 - Perfect Timing...Thanks!
Re: FTE 80-96 - 95' 5.0 Ping
Re: FTE 80-96 - hard starting
Re: FTE 80-96 - Serious Electrical Problem
FTE 80-96 - Wanted '80 E350 rear brake drums

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Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:08:39 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Dead Big Red

John Bowman writes: >>Big Red is dead! I went to the local coner store last
night and when I
tried to start Big Red he was dead! Not a sound when I turned the key...
no click, nothing, nada! Oh by the way, Big Red is an '83 F100, 2WD,
302, auto. The batery is strong (i.e. lights are bright, etc.). An
idea's? Starter, soleniod? ignition switch?

Try moving the geasrshift selector around with the key held in start. My guess
is that it is the neutral switch.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 14:32:41 +0000
From: Chris Hedemark
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Dead Big Red

am14 daimlerchrysler.com wrote:

> Try moving the geasrshift selector around with the key held in start. My guess
> is that it is the neutral switch.

Good guess. If it is not that, I would suspect the starter solenoid.
Battery is strong, so you should at least hear a loud "CLICK" if the
solenoid is getting juice. You can test this with a voltmeter and a
buddy to turn the key. Put the voltmeter probes on the corresponding
positive and negative terminals of the solenoid and have someone turn
the key. If you get a sudden jump in the juice, and no click, the
solenoid is bad. Good news is that this part is very cheap and very
easy to replace.

- --

Chris Hedemark
Work: IBM eNetwork Dispatcher
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.software.ibm.com/enetwork/dispatcher
Personal: Yonder Way http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com
"Earl Svein! thou now wilt know
That our lads can make blood flow --
That the Hedemarkers hale
Can do more than tap good ale." - Saga of Olaf Haraldson: Part II
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Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 07:42:00 -0700
From: Matthew.G.Allen nww01.usace.army.mil
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 95' 5.0 Ping

Thanks for all the good info last couple of days, you guys know your
stuff... tried replying yesterday but forgot to put something in subject so
it came back. I'm new, will get the hang in time.

I moved the 1-2 and 5-6 wires apart as Wayne suggested, still pinging...
I'll move ALL the wires apart, try a different set of plugs, and check
timing again tonight... timing has always been right on at 10 degrees. What
kind of plugs are working best for you guys?

What all is involved with injector cleaning? I suspect I'm better off
taking it in. Often wish I still had my 72 Bronc... could actually work on
it and somewhat know what I was doing (Holley 4bbl, headers, glass packs...
extra points, plugs, and a timing light kept under the seat).

I also read a little on a "knock sensor". Anyone had problems with one of
these, and if so how expensive and hard was it to replace? Probably one of
the "black boxes with wires" sitting beside all the ignition stuff.

Thanks again-
Matt Allen
Kennewick, WA

- ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:32:33 -0500
From: "Dave Harmier"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: Ping

I second Wayne about those wires!!!

One day several months ago, I pulled my 350 gallon trailer empty on my
weekly trip 70 miles north. My 92 5.0 pinged on hills and such going up.

On a whim I moved my old Autozone wires FAR apart!

At nearly 3000 pounds coming back, NO PING! Even over BIG bridge over Ship
Channel!

However, a change to new Motorcraft wires didn't seem to change anything
else.

Get those wires apart!!!

Dave H.
Houston, TX
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Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:36:00 -0700
From: "Tom Higgins"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Brake woes/ignition kill

Azie,

Thanks for your thoughts. I guess since I ended up
paying to have it done I'll take it back and make them
get it right. It's weird though. It only seems to happen
when the brakes have been used (and presumably have
gotten hot). I've tried backing off slightly on the drivers
side (the side it is pulling to) rear drum and it doesn't seem
to have helped.

Anyone have any thoughts on how/where to install an
"ignition" kill switch? Way to many vehicles stolen
around here and taken south of the border.

Thanks,

Tom in Phoenix


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Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 10:40:01 -0700
From: Vogt Family
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: mixed info

On Tue, 04 May 1999, "Scottie Schmidt"
wrote:
>
> I have heard different info on the types of trucks. I thought a f150 is a
> 1/4 ton truck, f250 a 1/2 ton truck, and a f350 a 3/4 ton truck. But I have
> heard different info. If someone could please tell me what each one is.
> Additionally I would like to know what the Ranger, and F100's are. And what
> is the biggest F series truck.

Well, back in the 50s the phrases 1/2 ton, 1 ton, etc. actually used to
mean something. Nowadays it seems even the half tons are rated to carry
much more than 1000 lbs. My 86 F-250 (referred to as 3/4 ton) came with
a certificate saying it was OK to carry 3000 lbs in the box so long as
it is properly balanced side to side and front to back. And the total
payload equates to 4000 lbs, so that you can stick on a snow plow and
carry some fat guys in the cab too. New trucks bearing the F-250 badge
can handle even more. All I am meaning to say is, you have just got to
weigh the truck and look at the rating plate inside the door to tell
what it can really carry.

Birken
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Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 12:41:15 -0500
From: Matthew Banevich
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Serious Electrical Problem

Just not over ten minutes ago, my Idiot Brother just hooked up my
battery in my 86' Bronco, REVERSE POLARITY.....

as you can guess nothing electrical works!

I am so so pissed off at him right now, but I really need to know what
the hell he did to my electrical system, being what parts might have
been fried...
I can't understand how an idiot can take off a battery from a car last
night and then put it in wrong the very next day!

The only reason the battery was out was because he's having problems
with his piece o'de sh...... it Trans Am, I guess he's jealous that I
have two running FORDs while his garbage motor doesn't ever work...

Sorry for all the venting, but ahhh..... any thoughts as to what
part/parts might be bad..... or the thought of even junking the truck
would be appreciated!!!

Matt Banevich
89' Bronco II ( just replaced the clutch and it works)
86' Bronco 4.9L-4 Speed Stick (currently in a coma)
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Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 11:31:16 -0700
From: Eric Sneed
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - EVP(EGR) troubleshooting

Hey Gang,
I pulled the code(s) from my truck and it looks like I took care of
most of the problems with the truck. However, I keep getting a code
32(EVP signal is/was low) along with the "check engine" light on my
dash. I have noticed this when the truck is climbing hills and any other
time that the truck is under load,the truck tends to "warm up" as well.
I can drive down the freeway all day and night and never get the light.
So now I am wondering what could be causing this low signal issue. Any
insight into this would be very helpful. thanks in advance

Eric
1989 F150 4x4 XLT Lariat 4sp 4.9L


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Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:37:40 -0500
From: "William Zellmann"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Parts

Need some parts help.

1. I'm replacing the cam, among other things, on my '81 300 I6. Though the
old distributor looks good, and the gear shows only normal wear, I thought
that it would be a good idea to have a new gear riding on the new cam. So,
i went to Auto Zone. In the "Help" section, the only distributor gear they
had was for a 351W. A parts clerk checked the computer, said they didn't
have, and couldn't get. OK, off to NAPA. The clerk checked the computer,
showed one, but didn't have it. Called the warehouse. didn't have it. Then
he called the distributor in Memphis. They didn't have it either, and said
they'd had them on back order from the factory for over a month. OK. I
gritted my teeth and went to the local Ford dealer. without even looking,
was told that Ford didn't have it, but they'd order me a new distributor
(does Ford really ever have parts, or is that just a marketing rumor? I've
NEVER been able to get a part i need from them!)

So, here I am. I find it difficult to believe that no one in the entire US
has ever tried to replace a distributor gear in an engine made for over 25
years! Suggestions, anyone?

2. I'm also replacing the manifolds. I've got an Offy 4-bbl intake, and I
scored a set of the late-model EFI exhaust manifolds, the kind that look
like cast-iron, split headers. Unfortunately, they were off the truck when
I found them, so I'm not sure of the year they're from (I assume '87 or
so). Question: Can the header pipe for, say, an '87 be bought? Where? The
local muffler shop told me they could make up a set, but they'd have to add
a catastrophic perverter (my truck didn't have one), because they were
required for '87 up, and that's what the manifolds were from. (Arkansas
doesn't have emissions testing, but the guy wouldn't budge.) Neeedless to
say, I'm not interested!

Appreciate any help or advice.

Bill Zellmann
'81 F-100
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Date: Wed, 05 May 99 15:02:52 EDT
From: droberts mit.edu (Dave)
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - ignition kill

Tom:

I installed my kill switch in the neutral saftey switch circuit. I have
a std. tranny and the clutch has to be depressed to start I interuptted
this circuit. The whole thing is in the cab and not exposed to the
elements.Of course I did this AFTER the truck was stolen and recoverd.

Dave
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Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:18:11 -0400
From: Dave
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Parts

Bill:

I can not help with your parts need but I have wanted to do what you are
with the exhaust manifold. Did you have any clearence problems installing
the exhast manifold ? I was not sure how much the cab had changed in 87.
The only quick cure I can think of for a header pipe would be to go to the
junk yard and cut the pipe leading to the cat and use that as the
starting point they are made of stainless steel so I'd think they would
still be in good shape.

Dave


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Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 18:22:09 EDT
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 95' 5.0 Ping

On the knock sensor..I hope you have skinny forearms or are willing to take
off the upper manifold. The knock sensor on our trucks are in the back on the
block, on the top of the block, DIRECTLY behind the lower manifold mounting
groove. It took me an hour and a half of trying without pulling the upper
manifold, then my skinny stepbro showed up and had it pulled and replaced in
20 minutes...go figure. This may or may not have anything to do with it..but
I would think not. The knock sensor RETARDS timing, pinging means running too
lean or detonation. The fuel injector cleaning is something best left for a
reputable shop to handle. Though I have heard of a kit (watching Shadetree
Mechanic) that we do it yourselfers can use and works as good as the shop
done cleaning. You also may want to check the fuel filter...this is a PITA
too. Its on the inside frame rail on the back just in front of the tank,
actually partly behind the tank...requires a special tool, and is just a
tight squeeze to do.
Good luck and let us know what you find,
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
"Hazardous Material"
Wayne's Flareside and
Ford Page
- The new pages are up, and more are coming. Let me know what you think.
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Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 16:59:31 -0700
From: "Steve Chiang"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure on 86 F250 diesel

I just acquired a 1986 F250 XLT Lariat 4x4 a few days ago. The truck has an
almost new 6.9 diesel engine(only has 27K miles) and an after market ATS
Turbo(I think the factory Turbo Diesel didn't come out until a year or two
later). The truck drove well, the only thing that I thought was out of the
ordinary was the oil pressure gauge always stay close to the bottom of the
Normal range. The only times the pressure comes up to the middle of Normal
was after a cold start, but once the engine was sufficiently warmed up, it's
back to the bottom of Normal again. I've talked to the previous owner and he
said it's been always like that and he never did quite figure out why but it
didn't seem to affect any operation. The previous owner took very good care
of the truck . He spent $2500 barely 8 months ago to replace the whole AC,
redo the seats and all the wiring for the power toys, when he said it drove
fine, its in good faith. I just wonder if anybody has any idea if the low
end of oil pressure indicates any type of problem or is this normal ?
Thanks.



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Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:21:37 EDT
From: ACMERCG aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Perfect Timing...Thanks!

Thanks to Wayne for saving my sorry *ss last night. After getting
the timing right (4 degrees off), it's like driving a totally diffrent truck!
I also bumped it up 2 Degrees afterwards and it's running even better.

Thanks to Wayne and all who replied,

Joe
Lost in Jersey
Now if I could only find out why my trans is leaking....
1992 F150 Nite
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Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 20:35:44 -0400
From: S Spaulding
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Serious Electrical Problem

It's probably just a fried fusible link.

Steve S.

Matthew Banevich wrote:
>
> Just not over ten minutes ago, my Idiot Brother just hooked up my
> battery in my 86' Bronco, REVERSE POLARITY.....
>
> as you can guess nothing electrical works!
>
> I am so so pissed off at him right now, but I really need to know what
> the hell he did to my electrical system, being what parts might have
> been fried...
> I can't understand how an idiot can take off a battery from a car last
> night and then put it in wrong the very next day!
>
> The only reason the battery was out was because he's having problems
> with his piece o'de sh...... it Trans Am, I guess he's jealous that I
> have two running FORDs while his garbage motor doesn't ever work...
>
> Sorry for all the venting, but ahhh..... any thoughts as to what
> part/parts might be bad..... or the thought of even junking the truck
> would be appreciated!!!
>
> Matt Banevich
> 89' Bronco II ( just replaced the clutch and it works)
> 86' Bronco 4.9L-4 Speed Stick (currently in a coma)
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Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:48:14 -0600
From: "John Krick"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - hard starting

I am new to posting. Have read with interest the dialogue around smog pump,
and am curious to hear another explanation of the utility of this beast. My
understanding is the injected air serves to dilute the emissions so that
testing the exhaust gases at the tailpipe gives acceptable readings.
My truck 85 F-150, 5.8L, Holley 4bbl starts with setting the choke by
pressing the accelerator to the floor and then releasing. It starts easily
(more easily if the block heater is plugged in) but will die in about 5
seconds. I pump the pedal again, and it starts again, running for ten
seconds. So I pump the pedal again and it starts and on a mild day, it will
continue to run, but I have to let it warm up for three to five minutes
before I can drop it in drive and drive away without it stalling.
What is this problem? I have taken it to two mechanics with no
change in cold starts. It will fllod occasionally when warmed up, but not so
as to be really annoying. I've adjusted the timing, the choke, the warm air
intake vacuum motor and thermostat were replaced and are now working. The
smog pump was disconnected when I bought this truck. It has 188,000 miles on
it. Could those valves be burnt anbd causing this problem? Any help is
greatly appreciated.

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Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 22:47:39 EDT
From: PSales264 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure on 86 F250 diesel

I have an 85 -250-6.9 and the pressure is always in the center or above with
121,000
the sending unit could be weak, and the turbo does take oil for lube that may
take some of the pressure, but you could have a DIRECT READING gauge
installed then you'd know for sure what's up GOOD LUCK, PHIL
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Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 21:06:16 -0600
From: Chris Philipp
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Intake snorkel

Yo docster,
I am intrigued by the mods you have done. I would
imagine that it would be like an "asmtha inhaler" for your
truck. Are you aware of any issues involving the swapping
of an intake snorkel....at all? Tell me, what exactly
is/does the K&N filter. Also, if you do not mind me
asking, what did the final bill come to when all was said
and done? P.S. Any negatives beside cost? TIA, Chris
(88' 302)

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Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 00:03:08 EDT
From: craig n eggerman
Subject: FTE 80-96 - rear tank fuel pump

Looks like I get to pull and change the rear tank fuel pump on an 88
fuel injected one ton E350 motorhome this weekend. I have changed these
before on other brands of autos but not anything this big. The NAPA parts
guy was not sure if these things have a pulsator right above the pump.
Anybody do one of these before? The instructions say if there is one
there replace it if not just put in the small piece of rubber hose that
is in the kit. The wiring also looked like it might be a little funky.
Apparently the connections can be a little different.

The wonderful Ford people wanted to sell me the entire sending unit for
$350. The problem is the pump not everything else. Ford would not sell me
the pump. Go figure. NAPA sure wanted the business though.
Craig
Eggerman juno.com
Casper,Wyoming
O|||||O

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Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 00:47:23 EDT
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Website

Hey gang,
The new website is up and running. Check it out and tell me what you think. I
just added a page tonight so it may not be up yet. There are 4 pages all
together and more pages and PICS for the PICS page coming. Just want some
opinions here, good or bad.
Later
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
"Hazardous Material"
Wayne's Flareside and
Ford Page

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Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 01:02:03 EDT
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Perfect Timing...Thanks!

Joe,
No problem bud, anytime. After all, that's what the list is here for right?
Later,
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
"Hazardous Material"
Wayne's Flareside
and Ford Page (Page 1)

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Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 00:39:07 -0500
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 95' 5.0 Ping

Knock sensor is a possible cause of pinging, but low probability of that
being the problem. A faulty knock sensor will not send a signal to the
computer. The computer will keep advancing the timing and not get a knock
signal, so think everything is A-OK. Computer does not pick up fact that
knock sensor is bad, so no code.

At 18:22 05/05/99 EDT, you wrote:
>On the knock sensor..I hope you have skinny forearms or are willing to take
>off the upper manifold. The knock sensor on our trucks are in the back on
the
>block, on the top of the block, DIRECTLY behind the lower manifold mounting
>groove. It took me an hour and a half of trying without pulling the upper
>manifold, then my skinny stepbro showed up and had it pulled and replaced in
>20 minutes...go figure. This may or may not have anything to do with it..but
>I would think not. The knock sensor RETARDS timing, pinging means running
too
>lean or detonation. The fuel injector cleaning is something best left for a
>reputable shop to handle. Though I have heard of a kit (watching Shadetree
>Mechanic) that we do it yourselfers can use and works as good as the shop
>done cleaning. You also may want to check the fuel filter...this is a PITA
>too. Its on the inside frame rail on the back just in front of the tank,
>actually partly behind the tank...requires a special tool, and is just a
>tight squeeze to do.
>Good luck and let us know what you find,
>Wayne Foy
>'94 Flareside SC
>"Hazardous Material"
>Wayne's Flareside
and
>Ford Page
>- The new pages are up, and more are coming. Let me know what you think.
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
Jim Cannon
Houston, TX
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton
'63 Buick Riviera
'80 Ford F-150
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Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 00:49:09 -0500
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - hard starting

At 19:48 05/05/99 -0600, you wrote:
>I am new to posting. Have read with interest the dialogue around smog pump,
>and am curious to hear another explanation of the utility of this beast. My
>understanding is the injected air serves to dilute the emissions so that
>testing the exhaust gases at the tailpipe gives acceptable readings.

The smog pump puts oxygen into the hot exhaust gas stream in the exhaust
manifold or into the cat converter. Either way, the oxygen comples
combustion of unburned hydrocarbons and CO to reduce emmissions. It really
chemically reduces emmissions, it does not just "dilute them" as many
people think. It is a simple way to reduce pollution without a big
performance hit.

> My truck 85 F-150, 5.8L, Holley 4bbl starts with setting the choke by
>pressing the accelerator to the floor and then releasing. It starts easily
>(more easily if the block heater is plugged in) but will die in about 5
>seconds. I pump the pedal again, and it starts again, running for ten
>seconds. So I pump the pedal again and it starts and on a mild day, it will
>continue to run, but I have to let it warm up for three to five minutes
>before I can drop it in drive and drive away without it stalling.
> What is this problem? I have taken it to two mechanics with no
>change in cold starts. It will fllod occasionally when warmed up, but not so
>as to be really annoying. I've adjusted the timing, the choke, the warm air
>intake vacuum motor and thermostat were replaced and are now working. The
>smog pump was disconnected when I bought this truck. It has 188,000 miles on
>it. Could those valves be burnt anbd causing this problem? Any help is
>greatly appreciated.
>
Hard to diagnose without seeing the truck. Is "fast idle" screw set right?
Many times they are not set fast enough. Have you checked for any vacuum
leaks? Is carb mounted tight? (mine seems to vibrate loose) Intake manifold
tight? Vacuum leaks will affect performance the most when engine is cold. I
assume once it warms up it runs ok?

Jim Cannon
Houston, TX
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton
'63 Buick Riviera
'80 Ford F-150
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Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 01:53:38 -0500
From: Matthew Banevich
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Serious Electrical Problem

It's probably just a fried fusible link.

Steve S.

OK.... I think that is what I kinda replaced..... but now a new
question, What does a fuseable link do? The thing that fried was a
black piece of wire that looked to be 14ga cu wirethat was 6" long, and
on the connector piece was molded "fuseable link".....

I just replaced that portion with 10 ga wire!

And I painted the negative wires black for future idiots, who don't know
how to follow a battery terminal to it's purpose (ground or to the
Starter Solenoid)....

Did I mess up by just replaing that thing with a regular piece of
wire...

the shielding on the fuseable link portion of wirre was really soft and
the break was about 2" after the black thing that said fuseable link?

Thankz for the help..... it's really appreciated..... but after I
cooled down, I grabbed my test light and got to troubleshooting...

With the help I've been asking for, hopefully someone will ask a
question that I know the answer to, so I can feel like I helped someone!
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 00:01:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carnuck ....


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