80-96-list-digest Monday, May 3 1999 Volume 03 : Number 124



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - Leaking main seal on 90 model F-150
Re: FTE 80-96 - Leaking main seal on 90 model F-150
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Smog Pump
FTE 80-96 - re: smog pump
FTE 80-96 - RE: truck won't start
FTE 80-96 - Truck won't start
FTE 80-96 - truck won't start
FTE 80-96 - Truck won't start, My mistake
FTE 80-96 - Starter Motor
Re: FTE 80-96 - Starter Motor
FTE 80-96 - After Market tach....86 ford f-150
Re: FTE 80-96 - Starter Motor
Re: FTE 80-96 - Starter Motor
FTE 80-96 - Rear Ends....

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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 07:22:48 -0600
From: Chuck Biggs
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Leaking main seal on 90 model F-150

My 90 model F-150 is leaving a spot of oil on the drive way after 72,000
miles of driving and it appears to be coming from the mail seal. Does
this crank case "main seal stop leak" work or is it a waste of money and
time?

TIA

Chuck Biggs
Pasadena, TX


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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 08:35:12 -0500
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Leaking main seal on 90 model F-150

At 07:22 02/05/99 -0600, you wrote:
>My 90 model F-150 is leaving a spot of oil on the drive way after 72,000
>miles of driving and it appears to be coming from the mail seal. Does
>this crank case "main seal stop leak" work or is it a waste of money and
>time?
>
I have never tried it because I assumed it was a waste of time. It probably
can't hurt anything, though, if you want to experiment (and share your
results with us).

It is my understanding that these additives are some kind of petroleum
solvent that makes rubber swell, so they work by making the seal swell up
and touch the crankshaft a bit better. I always assumed it would be only a
temporary fix, and that swelled rubber was softer rubber, so it would wear
faster an I'd be replacing the seal soon afterward anyway.

What engine do you have?

Jim Cannon
Houston, TX
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton
'63 Buick Riviera
'80 Ford F-150
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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 08:41:16 -0500
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Smog Pump

At 22:56 01/05/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Thanks for the response, but it was my impression that these pumps take
away 5HP. The
>49state 4.9 I6 produces 150hp 3400 rpm, where the California model only
has 145hp
>3400 rpm. The only difference I can see between the two is the smog pump.
Otherwise
>they must be using a different cam on the Cali model causing the loss.
>
I hear you, but I do not think all the difference is from this little air
pump. I do not know what else is different beside the pump between Calif.
and other models.

Jim Cannon
Houston, TX
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton
'63 Buick Riviera
'80 Ford F-150
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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 09:09:30 -0400
From: Douglas Heckert
Subject: FTE 80-96 - re: smog pump

Hello everyone,

> Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 22:56:39 -0700
> From: "Mark Behling"
> Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Smog Pump
>
> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:40:43 -0500
> From: Jim Cannon
> Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Disabling the Smog Pump
>
> >The computer will never know. But, you will not see any significant
> >increase in power or mileage. These air pumps draw little power.
>
>
> Thanks for the response, but it was my impression that these pumps take
> away 5HP. The 49state 4.9 I6 produces 150hp 3400 rpm, where the
> California model only has 145hp 3400 rpm. The only difference I can see
> between the two is the smog pump. Otherwise they must be using a different
> cam on the Cali model causing the loss.
>
> Mark
I was a Ford mechanic and have seen the results of removing the smog
pump belt,exhaust heat will burn up the check valves and then it will
burn up the pump. I also think that the computer will know that there
is a failure in that part of the emissions system. You will also shorten
the catalytic converter's life. The smog pump puts out I believe about 2
lbs.positive pressure and while its a pain in the butt IT IS a part of
the emissions system and as such is monitored by the computer thruogh
the O2 senser. You stated in your original post that this was a
hypothetical situation, I can say for sure the result of doing it will
be $$ money spent out in repair bills and if you live where there is
mandatory emissions testing, the vehicle will fail! My qulifications for
answering your posting is this, I'm a Lincoln Technical Institute
graduate and a Ford Reqistered Technician (re: Ford mechanic). The fact
is that smog pump is a required part of the emissions system and
removing it will not increase fuel economy. These pumps have been on
most engines for the last thirty years, before computers were a part of
the vehicles emissions system you could remove the smog pumps belt,
adjust the timing and carb some and maybe improve your fuel economy a
little. My answer to your hypothetical question is I'm sure not what you
wanted to hear sorry.
so long for now,
Heck
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Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 09:02:53 -0500
From: Paul M Radecki
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: truck won't start

MIke posted:
>>Most electric pump have some type of switch or sensor to cut in and out
at a
>>specified pressure. (Example on at 30 psi off at 45psi.) If the truck
is not
>>running the pressure drops. You turn the key on and the pump runs.

Close. There is a pressure regulator just downstream of the injectors,
but it is vacuum actuated and not electrical. It determines how much
pressure exists in the fuel rail and how much is bled back into the tank
via the return line (that's why you have two fuel lines in a fuel
injected vehicle). The pump runs at the same speed all the time while
the motor is running; this is more efficient and better for the pump than
cycling on and off would be.

>>Some vehicles are set up to activate the fuel pump in the start and run
>>cycle only. Just turning the key will not make the pump run (EEC
controlled)

The pump will (and must) run for a second or two with the motor not
running in order to pressurize the system. If it does not, there will be
no fuel pressure at the injectors and the motor will not start. This is
clearly audible if you close the door and fasten your seatbelt (to quiet
the buzzers) and turn the key to run (not start). I always give the
system a moment to pressurize before I engage the starter: no point in
cranking the engine over until there is enough fuel to fire it.

>>There may also a inertia switch in the system.That opens the power
>>circuit to the fuel pump in case of collision. If this is faulty it
will
>>cause a no start problem due to fuel.

It's behind the kick panel beside your passenger's right ankle. Push the
button on top to reset it. Since the switch is purely electrical (no
fuel flows through it) you can test it by removing the 2-wire connector
from it and jumpering the two wires together. If the switch is defective
(it probably isn't) please replace it: it's an important safety feature.

I've learned all this from trying to track down a wet weather miss in my
'94 F150. (Thank you David for the TSB, but the indicated wiring harness
tested okay). Since my problem only occurs when the truck is under
throttle (and wet) I've had to go over my electrical system point by
point with a voltmeter: hook up the lead, run wire into the cab, attach
and ground the meter, test for normal operation, wait for the problem to
occur (often days or weeks), curse when the truck bucks like a chevy but
the meter never wavers. Repeat. Still hunting... Replaced: coil, cap,
rotor, plug wires, plugs, fuel filter. Checked: power supply to fuel
pumps. Next: overhaul throttle body and affiliated sensors.

lordjanusz juno.com
'94 F150 300ci


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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 11:21:37 -0500
From: vince a smith
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Truck won't start

> I have a 1991 F 150 with two fuel tanks, front and rear. The tanks each =
> have a high pressure pump in them. There is no high pressure pump on the =
> truck frame ahead of the fuel tanks. I cant get the truck started. The =
> plugs have fire. The fuel relay has voltage. the inertia switch has volta=
> ge. the the fuel tanks switch has voltage to and through it. I can not =
> hear the fuel pump working when you first turn on the ignition switch, =
> eather pump. What are my options, take off one of the fuel tanks and chec=
> k the voltage at the pump? I have not checked the voltage at the injector=
> s eather. thanks for any help you can give me. Don Williams
>
All this info is for a single pump I am not sure where the rear tank
switch fits in to all this.

Excuse me if you already know this but in order for a relay to work you
must have 12volts on one side of the COIL and ground on the other. This
will place the contacts in the closed position, or when looking at the
diagram on the relay it will pull the contact toward the coil. Often
times this is label NC and NO. This means with the relay energized
contacts NO are Normally open and contacts NC are Normally closed.
So if you have 12v on one contact and 12v on the coil, when you get a
ground on the coil, contact switches close and allow 12v to the other
side of relay ( in this case to the fuel pump).


The PCM relay CONTACTS feed the fuel pump relay COIL 12v. You gotta have
this or the fuel pump wont work.

The PCM relay COIL gets ground from the PCM itself. The PCM COIL also
gets 12v through a 30amp fuse in the engine compartment. This will
energize PCM relay sending 12v to one side of fuel pump relay coil.

The fuel pump relay should have 12volts on one CONTACT at all times (key
off). From a 30 amp fuse in the engine compartment. This is the voltage
that runs the pump. That voltage then goes through the inertia switch,
then to the pump.

To get 12v to the inertia switch ( then to the pump) the PCM must ground
one side of the fuel pump relay COIL and the PCM relay must put 12v one
the other side of COIL this energizes the relay and closes contacts.


So with the key on you will have voltage on two of pins of the fuel pump
relay. One is for the contacts that feed the pump and the other is the
relay coil. As studded above the coil must have a ground (from PCM) on
the other side of coil to energize the contacts.


Some things to try:
Jumper 12v to the pump it always has ground (I THINK this wire is pink)
so it should run.

A quick check is two jumper the CONTACT pins on the fuel pump relay. If
you look at relay it should have a diagram on it, the pump should start
running if your inertia switch is good. The truck should start and run
like this, if PCM is firing injectors correctly. If this works, check
for 12v on one side of coil and ground on other side.
If pump doesn't work check for 12v on one contact if it is there your
pump is bad or inerta switch. If you dont check PCM relay circuit.


Ground your fuel pump relay ( put a ground one the COIL ) from the
Diagnostic connector with the key on. My connector has two rows of
pins, 4 on the bottom and two on the top. The fuel pump is to the far
right with the four pins closest to you. If you ground it and pump
doesn't work you have a bad relay or inertia switch or pump.
If you hear it run ( fuel pump) your fuel pump relay and fuel pump are
working.

I hope this helps and I have not made this more confusing than it is.

Good luck
Vince Smith
1993 F150
1961 Econoline Pickup
1976 DJ-5D
1991 Toyota Pickup



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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 12:01:25 -0500
From: vince a smith
Subject: FTE 80-96 - truck won't start

One thing to try I should have said first is to spray some WD-40 into it
while someone is trying to start it, this will tell you
if its a fuel problem.


Also found this on E150 board

Fords like gms are equipped with an electrical switch valve located
under the truck in the frame rail, this is probably gone bad. the other
problem might be the fuel switch itself

Second message:

I don't have a factory 2nd tank but I took a 2nd tank from the e-150 and
put it in my e-150. They do use an electric switch
and in a pinch (when I was in the middle of nowhere) and my valve died
(wouldn't switch) I switched the two fuel lines from
the two tanks so that when there was no power going to the switch (or
switch not working) I could get the fuel out of the
other tank.

If your not in a pinch check that there is 12 volts going to the valve
when you flip the switch. If there is then the valve is bad.. if
not wire or switch (or even a fuse?)


Vince

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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 12:21:56 -0500
From: vince a smith
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Truck won't start, My mistake

Well I reread your message and it looks like your on the right track. I
thought you had no voltage at those points.
Playing Mr. Mom all weekend with 6 month old, not thinking to straight.

Hard to believe both pumps are bad. I say hot wire the pump before
taking tank off and after WD-40 test.

Good luck and I hope I didn't insult you with first message.
Vince

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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 15:18:40 -0700
From: Moe Gendron
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Starter Motor

Hey Guys,
Well I fianally got to the point of starting my 302ho swap. Turn
the key and the selinoid clicks in but the starter does not turn. Get
under the hood and hook up a remote starter switch to the selinoid. Press
button, starter dosen't turn, hold down button, remote starter switch
gets hot. Back to Autoparts store, they say the starter is O.K. I say
"gimmie another one and test it". Get home with new starter, lay it on a
piece of cardboard, hookup a remote starter switch on jumper cables,
starter does not turn, hold down switch and it gets hot. starter does not
turn. get pissed and hookup directly to battery, starter does not turn.
anybody have any idea on what's goin on? Jeez, the terminal is
+12dc and the body is negative side, no way it can be hooked up wrong.
I'm whupped.

Thanks,
Moe
I hate problems with no answers........


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Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:07:27 -0700
From: "Mike"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Starter Motor

With a known good fully charged battery if you hook up jumper cables +
battery to post on starter, - battery to case of starter and nothing
happens! Ether your jumpers are no good, you do not have a good connection
or the starter has a open circuit.

I'm assuming you checked the engine and it turns freely.


- -----Original Message-----
From: Moe Gendron
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 1:42 PM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Starter Motor


>Hey Guys,
> Well I fianally got to the point of starting my 302ho swap. Turn
>the key and the selinoid clicks in but the starter does not turn. Get
>under the hood and hook up a remote starter switch to the selinoid. Press
>button, starter dosen't turn, hold down button, remote starter switch
>gets hot. Back to Autoparts store, they say the starter is O.K. I say
>"gimmie another one and test it". Get home with new starter, lay it on a
>piece of cardboard, hookup a remote starter switch on jumper cables,
>starter does not turn, hold down switch and it gets hot. starter does not
>turn. get pissed and hookup directly to battery, starter does not turn.
> anybody have any idea on what's goin on? Jeez, the terminal is
>+12dc and the body is negative side, no way it can be hooked up wrong.
>I'm whupped.
>
>Thanks,
>Moe
>I hate problems with no answers........
>
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 17:18:54 EDT
From: CphgnCwby1 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - After Market tach....86 ford f-150

I have a '86 Ford F-150 302 FI

I need to know a couple of things:
1)Can you buy the after Market tach that goes in the dash (next to the
speedometer)
2)Is it hard to put in
3)What wire on the distributor would i hook to for my tach signal


BART
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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 16:28:07 -0500
From: vince a smith
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Starter Motor

So they did check the new one? I bought 4 alternators from Auto-Bone and they
were all bad, drove me crazy.
I think Mike covered everything I know of.
Good luck

Mike wrote:

> With a known good fully charged battery if you hook up jumper cables +
> battery to post on starter, - battery to case of starter and nothing
> happens! Ether your jumpers are no good, you do not have a good connection
> or the starter has a open circuit.
>
> I'm assuming you checked the engine and it turns freely.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Moe Gendron
> To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 1:42 PM
> Subject: FTE 80-96 - Starter Motor
>
> >Hey Guys,
> > Well I fianally got to the point of starting my 302ho swap. Turn
> >the key and the selinoid clicks in but the starter does not turn. Get
> >under the hood and hook up a remote starter switch to the selinoid. Press
> >button, starter dosen't turn, hold down button, remote starter switch
> >gets hot. Back to Autoparts store, they say the starter is O.K. I say
> >"gimmie another one and test it". Get home with new starter, lay it on a
> >piece of cardboard, hookup a remote starter switch on jumper cables,
> >starter does not turn, hold down switch and it gets hot. starter does not
> >turn. get pissed and hookup directly to battery, starter does not turn.
> > anybody have any idea on what's goin on? Jeez, the terminal is
> >+12dc and the body is negative side, no way it can be hooked up wrong.
> >I'm whupped.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Moe
> >I hate problems with no answers........
> >
> >
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 23:20:36 -0400
From: "Steve"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Starter Motor

Sounds like you've got a short directly to ground some how! If the starter
switch is getting hot, then you're somehow completing a circuit. The
negative should ground to the engine block and then there should be ground
straps from the block to the body and frame. Are you sure you're getting
enough juice from the battery to kick the starter motor?

Let us know what you find, I'm going to try and kick mine over (300 swap to
351) in two weeks.

Thanks,

Steve

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Moe Gendron
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 1999 6:18 PM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Starter Motor


> Hey Guys,
> Well I fianally got to the point of starting my 302ho swap. Turn
> the key and the selinoid clicks in but the starter does not turn. Get
> under the hood and hook up a remote starter switch to the selinoid. Press
> button, starter dosen't turn, hold down button, remote starter switch
> gets hot. Back to Autoparts store, they say the starter is O.K. I say
> "gimmie another one and test it". Get home with new starter, lay it on a
> piece of cardboard, hookup a remote starter switch on jumper cables,
> starter does not turn, hold down switch and it gets hot. starter does not
> turn. get pissed and hookup directly to battery, starter does not turn.
> anybody have any idea on what's goin on? Jeez, the terminal is
> +12dc and the body is negative side, no way it can be hooked up wrong.
> I'm whupped.
>
> Thanks,
> Moe
> I hate problems with no answers........
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 23:26:45 EDT
From: CphgnCwby1 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Rear Ends....

....


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