80-96-list-digest Wednesday, April 28 1999 Volume 03 : Number 119



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 80-96 - More useless service people
Re: FTE 80-96 - More useless service people
FTE 80-96 - Re:fuel sender
Re: FTE 80-96 - oil guage woes
FTE 80-96 - More useless service people
FTE 80-96 - RE: '84 I6 rebuild
Re: FTE 80-96 - 1989 F250
Re: FTE 80-96 - Clunk from Reverse to Forward
Re: FTE 80-96 - v-8 Throttle body on straight 6?
FTE 80-96 - Re: 1989 F-250
FTE 80-96 - Carbs, tune-ups, vac.
FTE 80-96 - RE: TPS
Re: FTE 80-96 - More useless service people
Re: FTE 80-96 - Looking for 92-96 interior parts
FTE 80-96 - Cleaning Up and Engines
FTE 80-96 - Strong idle
RE: FTE 80-96 - Strong idle
Re: FTE 80-96 - Cleaning Up and Engines
Re: FTE 80-96 - Cleaning Up and Engines
FTE 80-96 - Radiator/grill screen/blanket
FTE 80-96 - 302 HO

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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:27:31 -0400
From: Bruce Ramirez
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - More useless service people

Go to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Web Site
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/toc.html

There you will find a recall database and a TSB database.

Bruce Ramirez
1991 F-150 XLT Lariat 4x4 4.9L


ACMERCG aol.com wrote:
>
> I went to my dealer today to ask if any of the four recalls were done on my
> truck and she first told me that there weren't any, then she told me that
> there weren't any in the last year, which is true. They can only go back a
> year in their records and the last recall was in '95. Anyone know how I
> might be able to find this info out? Maybe Corprate? Second, she gave me
> the same story on the TSB's, telling me that there weren't any on my truck,
> to which I pulled out 230 something TSB's I got from Alldata's website and
> again, I got no answer. Where can I get this info? I'm dying to find out
> what the fix for my leaking trans is....
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
> Lost in Jersey
> 92 F-150 Nite
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:51:32 -0400
From: Andre Roy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - More useless service people

ACMERCG aol.com wrote:
>
> I went to my dealer today to ask if any of the four recalls were done on my
> truck and she first told me that there weren't any, then she told me that
> there weren't any in the last year, which is true. They can only go back a
> year in their records and the last recall was in '95.
>
Nuts.

> Anyone know how I
> might be able to find this info out? Maybe Corprate?
>
Try a different dealer. Any Ford or Lincoln-Mercury dealer should be
able to type in the VIN and see what recalls are outstanding. Now, maybe
all recalls have been done on the vehicle which is why she said there
are none, she meant "none outstanding". Ford has to keep track of ALL
safety and emmissions recalls for all vehicles they sell. Check the
AllData site (www.alldata.com). It will tell you if there are recalls.
Obviously, it won't tell you if they have been done on your vehicle.

> Second, she gave me
> the same story on the TSB's, telling me that there weren't any on my truck,
>
Ford isn't required to give out the TSBs. They are only
diagnostic/repair aids. Nice to have, not required.

> to which I pulled out 230 something TSB's I got from Alldata's website and
> again, I got no answer. Where can I get this info?
>
The AllData disk is only about US$20.00-$30.00, they're not that bad,
though not quite as good as an FSM. You can get them all over the place,
the Popular Mechanics (Science?) series available in Sears (or
Wal*Mart?) are AllData disks in different packaging. Check with AllData
before byuing them, there are package deals available and "keys" to
unlock certain parts of the disk. The TSB/Recall section may not be
active on the ones you buy.

> I'm dying to find out
> what the fix for my leaking trans is....
>
Around the input shaft, output shaft, gear selector lever? Standard
places, likely. It's not likely that would be listed, unless it's a new
model transmission for that year or it's some sort of bizarre failure
mode not encountered before AND it's fairly common. The latter would
indicate some sort of major change in the production process or in the
design of the transmission.
- --
Andre
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:55:31 -0500
From: "Steve Hansen"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re:fuel sender

Due to the fact that it gave me a irradic reading first, tells me that it is
the complete sender, not the float. I have a 95 gal farmers tank in the bed,
so running out of fuel isn't a problem. Havent decided when to fix it yet...
Definately when the tank is empy!
Steve
50-F1 (some assembly required)
92 F250 Super cab

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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:00:05 -0400
From: Andre Roy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - oil guage woes

Victor L Moran wrote:
> My '87 aerostar


> I bought the van about 9 months ago and the oil pressure was very
> low to begin with. ........
> Turned out that the oil sending unit was broken. Replaced

> it. Gauge now flying very high. Perhaps too high.
> 3 months ago I was driving from Buffalo to New York and the car
> had been on and running for about 7 hours at 65 and had been idling for
> about 5 more hours (while I slept). The pressure gauge dropped to 0 while
> I was doing 65! I put it in neutral and coasted onto the shoulder. Just
> before I was going to turn off the engine, the oil pressure returned.
> I let the engine cool off for a few minutes then restarted and
> kept driving. No more oil problems. When I got to my friends garage, he
> told me that the problem was the oil was getting 'stuck on top of the
> engine', therefore there was no oil in the pan to pump and the pressure
> dropped. He put a 3 dollar bottle of a cleaner into it and then changed
> the oil and the pressure was flying high again.
>
[more weirdness]


> A mechanic told me that perhaps the oil pump's filter is clogged
> but I wanted to get ideas from the people on this list first. Any idea's?
>
Could be junk in the oil pan. Especially after some "magic elixer" is
added and loosened it up. Could also be that the oil is not returning to
the pan, but that would tend to be more consistant and generally only
occur after extended high engine speeds (how extended and how high would
depend on the severity of the blockage).

Could also be an electrical problem with the oil sender/guage system.
Try a mechanical gauge (just tape it to the outside of the windshield,
it's only temporary) If it seems normal, start tracing wiring, if it
agrees with the electric gauge, then it's time to bite the bullet and
track down the oiling problem.

Start by getting the engine good and warmed up, immediately drain the
oil (hot hot hot!) If you get lumps, it time for a wrench. If not, time
to keep searching.

Could be the pressure relief valve, too. How's the oil filter?
- --
Andre
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:08:04 -0500
From: vince a smith
Subject: FTE 80-96 - More useless service people

> I went to my dealer today to ask if any of the four recalls were done on my
> truck and she first told me that there weren't any, then she told me that
> there weren't any in the last year, which is true. They can only go back a
> year in their records and the last recall was in '95. Anyone know how I
> might be able to find this info out? Maybe Corprate? Second, she gave me
> the same story on the TSB's, telling me that there weren't any on my truck,
> to which I pulled out 230 something TSB's I got from Alldata's website and
> again, I got no answer. Where can I get this info? I'm dying to find out
> what the fix for my leaking trans is....
>
Joe,
I here you about the service people. It seems every time I pay someone
to do anything, I end you having to go back and do it right. I decided
to spend my money on tools and have a backup vehicle. Anyway I have the
Alldata CD for the 1993 E150
send me the TSB# and I will see if this CD has it. Only one that Jumped
out at me is "Valve Body Cross Leaks" but I think thats a internal leak.

I know the Ford dealer here said they had them or could get the and let
me see them. Said it would be great if I had the TSB#,
maybe you just got a bad dealer.

Vince Smith
1993 E150 123,000 miles 5.0L
1961 Econline Pickup 144 CID
1976 DJ-5 Mail Jeep
1991 Toyota Pickup

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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:33:57 -0600
From: "Smeins, Larry"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: '84 I6 rebuild

> My advice, Alex, is don't do half a job if you want an engine that will be
> reliable and will last. I have rebuilt many engines and quite a few were
> redoing rebuilds that someone else did half way.
>
> Now on your observations:
> Bearing journals on the crank should be shiny and smooth. Never copper
> colored. You can buff the journals with emery cloth cut into a strip and
> pulled around the journal. Measure the journals, all of them, at several
> points around their surface with a micrometer. Compare your measurements
> with the specifications for your crank. The thing to watch for is out of
> roundness as well as absolute diameter.
>
> Bearing surfaces have a white metal covering a copper backing. If copper
> is showing the bearings are worn out and need to be replaced.
>
> On engine reassembly be sure and check bearing clearance with plasti-gage.
>
> The piston and cylinder wear you see is normal wear pattern. The piston
> rocks in the cylinder as it moves up and down and wears the surfaces
> perpendicular to the pin bore. You should see little wear on the surfaces
> where the pin holes are located. You must hone the cylinder and remove
> the ring groove at the top of the cylinder before installing new rings.
> If you don't hone, the rings will never seat and if the groove isn't
> removed the top ring will be broken in short order. Be sure and check
> piston skirt clearance. If clearance is excessive but the pistons are
> still useable the skirts can be expanded or knurled to tighten them.
> Excessive skirt clearance will result in piston slap and/or poor ring
> seal.
>
> If you are seeing aluminum scuffing onto the cylinder walls, from the
> pistons, on the pin hole sides of the pistons, the pistons are probably
> ruined. If the cylinder bores are scored too deeply to be honed out, not
> much, you will have high oil consumption if the cylinders aren't rebored.
> Now you are talking expensive. Cylinders must also be checked for
> roundness.
>
> Good luck on your rebuild.
>
> Larry
>
>
> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 08:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Alex Wolfe
> Subject: FTE 80-96 - '84 I6 rebuild
>
> I have finally gotten around to rebuilding the ill-maintained
> engine
> off my '84 F-150 I6(Only had it 2 years and it's dead). I'm a
> relative
> newbie on the internals of an engine, but I only paid $500 for the
> truck so I figure it's a good opportunity for a learning experience.
>
> My question is this: How much wear is acceptable on the journals?
> There is a copper colored coating (friction related I assume) that
> is
> almost entirely worn away, and is visibly grooved. I am hoping to
> get
> away with just valves/springs/seats/guides/gaskets/(pistons?) and
> want
> to avoid any machining if possible. Is there anything I can do to
> smooth the suckers out, or is it not that significant? I know the
> *right* answer is a lot of machining, but I just want it to go
> "putt-putt" for another year at best. Other funny thing is the
> front
> and back of the pistons as well as the cylinder walls are visibly
> worn,
> almost like the block contracted front-to-back. The failure that
> induced this was the engine siezing at operating temp, good oil
> pressure, normal coolant temp, just siezed. Upon draining precious
> fluids I saw no metal, and I went though my oil with a small magnet
> with no success in finding anything. After the "siezure" I would go
> to
> crank, get about half a crank in and "WHAM" it would stop
> (flywheel/starter seem fine. pressure plate/clute fine). Any
> advice
> from those with experience?
>
> Alex - Up to the elbows in parts
>
>
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:38:38 -0500
From: Andy Norris
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 1989 F250

Thanks for replying! I drove it to work this morning for the first time,
and the only complaint I have is the steering. I think I'm gonna spend some
time tonight working on that. The gas mileage might make me want to take a
second job, though! But for ten years old, it runs pretty swell.

Andy
anorris allenpress.com

At 08:27 PM 4/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Congratulations on your purchase. I too am the owner of a 1989 F 250 with a
>5.8, and i must tell you I LOVE my truck. Mine gets beat on regularly and
>she takes it witout missing a beat.
>Your rear tank might be not work cause the inner tank fuel pump may be out
>you need to check out the thing and see if power is getting to it . I had
>fuel problems and can tell you all kinds of tricks etc about the dual tank
>system.
>The only other problems i had was a bad EGR valve and sensor ontop of it..
>and a small exhaust leak.. i also needed to replace the transmission , but
>with the weight i put in my truck that was inevitable.
>The only other horrible thing is the rear plug by the air conditioner thing
>by the firewall.. you have to be a contortionist to get that plug in.
>Best of luck with your truck and many happy miles!
>Bob
>ROlson1039 aol.com
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:16:07 -0600
From: "CalvinB"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Clunk from Reverse to Forward

The U joints have been replaced. It sounds (when I am in the vehicle) than
it is comming out of the end of the transmission (I have a standard 3 spd
od)

Cal.



Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Clunk from Reverse to Forward


>U joints been replaced?
>Wayne Foy
>'94 Flareside SC
>"Hazardous Material"
>
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>

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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:20:04 -0600
From: "CalvinB"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - v-8 Throttle body on straight 6?

Sorry, my mistake.

All I have off a V8 is the Air Intake Bypass Valve on my straight 6. Not
the whole throttle body....My mistake. There appears to be no difference in
the AIB Valves.

My appologies for misleading you.


Cal.


- -----Original Message-----
From: Erston Reisch
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, April 26, 1999 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - v-8 Throttle body on straight 6?


>Cal/List,
>
>Would there be a benefit to changing to a V8 Throttle body? I would
>assume you'd want a larger one to increase air flow, right?
>
>- Erston ('90 F-150 XLT-L, 300ci, E4OD, 116.8")
>
>
>
>
>"CalvinB" wrote:
>>
>> I have have one off a 5.0L and I have had no problems.
>> >
>> >I have a 89 Ford F-150 With the 4.9L straight 6. Would a throttle
>> >body off of a 5.0 or 5.8 fit on the upper intake on my straight 6?
>> >They both have dual inlets and the same connections.
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>

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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:44:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Casey Vandor
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: 1989 F-250

You'll build a real love-hate relationship :) With an 89, probably
not. I have an 83 and at times, it is great, other times, I could run
into the scrap yard and not miss it at all. Most of the newer trucks
(and pre '80 trucks) have been great. I am just biased against the
evil 80-83 EEC III computer system!! As far as F-150, F-250, F-350
goes, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, and 1 ton.

When you say the rear gas tank doesn't work, does it leak, or is the
pump broken... Be a little more specific, the wealth of info on this
list is amazing!!


>>>>>>>>>>
I'm the new owner of a 1989 F250 extended cab with a 351. I've never
owned
a Ford before. I know that everyone on this list might be just a tad
biased, but I was wondering if anyone might give me a hint as to what
I'm
>>>>>>>>>
===
"That's the whole problem with science. You've got a bunch of empiricists trying to describe things of unimaginable wonder." - Calvin (& Hobbes)

Casey Vandor
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.tripod.com/CaseyV/
83 F-250 4x4
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:15:48 -0400
From: "PmctBaker"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Carbs, tune-ups, vac.

Hey all,

I made a partial page about carbs and tune-ups, take a look.

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www3.your-net.com/~pmbaker

Any feedback would be most appreciated.

mike baker
pmbaker your-net.com
1985 Styleside 4x4

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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:15:36 -0700
From: "Posluszny, Walt (POSL)"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: TPS

Calvin, What if your TPS voltage is set above 1, such as 1.100 volts, what
would be the symptoms in you experience? Would the setting be different for
different Ford vehicles or for different years? Thanks Walt

Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:46:12 -0600
From: "CalvinB"
Subject: Re: Subject: FTE 80-96 - Throttle Position Sensor

[snip]and adjust your TPS to within .997 - .999
volts [snip]

Cal.



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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:21:53 EDT
From: ROlson1039 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - More useless service people

You wouldnt expect the dealer to be honest would ya?? Come now this is the
Northeast
Bob
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:23:21 EDT
From: ROlson1039 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Looking for 92-96 interior parts

Joe try JC WHitney ( im not sure what year your truck is) or Sears
If all else fails try the junkyards
Bob
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:48:07 PDT
From: 2insane excite.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Cleaning Up and Engines

I was wondering if any of you had any good experiences with additives like
fuel injector cleaner and oil additives to help clean out an engine. do they
really work or is it just a scam?
my next question is about engines. i have a stock 302 right now but am
looking for more power, a 351 probably, but am wondering if this is not a
good switch because i seem to remember on this list of a suggestion to go
from a 351 to a 302. Or should I just get some aftermarket products. thanks
for any and all replys.




_______________________________________________________
Get your free, private email at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://mail.excite.com/
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:42:00 -0600
From: Chris Philipp
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Strong idle

Recently, I removed and cleaned my throttle body (88'
302). While at it I replaced my TPS. Now the Chiltons
only said to scribe the spots, and install with the
"tangs" clockwise. Haynes of course went through a
long/detailed way to check voltage, etc. Anyway, I was
unable to get any reading from the TPS (trying the Haynes
way), so I just replaced the new TPS off of the scribe
mark. I tried to stick some pins in the insulation to
check the TPS voltage, and had no luck at all. Now my
truck runs outstanding, except it does appear to have an
increased idle. The idle adjust screw has no slot (for a
screwdriver that is), and appears to reinforce the notion
"do not attempt to adjust your idle screw". My question,
along with the voltmeter part is this. How long should
the computer take to adjust to the work I did (I find now
regular unleaded is plenty), and what is the approx rpm's
for idle speed? P.S., I have not even checked out
aftermarket tach's, how much $, and how much of a pain in
the a#* will it be to install. TIA Chris

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:47:05 -0500
From: "Harris, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Strong idle

I'm on the verge of doing this same procedure and wanted to find out besides
new TPS(already have it) what else did you need? Gasket? What kind of time
am I looking at and what else did you do while you were into it? Did you
use carb cleaner to clean it?

Thanks
Scott Harris
'85 302 EFI S/C

> -----Original Message-----
> From:Chris Philipp [SMTP:chrisp webaccess.net]
> Sent:Tuesday, April 27, 1999 9:42 PM
> To:80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject:FTE 80-96 - Strong idle
>
> Recently, I removed and cleaned my throttle body (88'
> 302). While at it I replaced my TPS. Now the Chiltons
> only said to scribe the spots, and install with the
> "tangs" clockwise. Haynes of course went through a
> long/detailed way to check voltage, etc. Anyway, I was
> unable to get any reading from the TPS (trying the Haynes
> way), so I just replaced the new TPS off of the scribe
> mark. I tried to stick some pins in the insulation to
> check the TPS voltage, and had no luck at all. Now my
> truck runs outstanding, except it does appear to have an
> increased idle. The idle adjust screw has no slot (for a
> screwdriver that is), and appears to reinforce the notion
> "do not attempt to adjust your idle screw". My question,
> along with the voltmeter part is this. How long should
> the computer take to adjust to the work I did (I find now
> regular unleaded is plenty), and what is the approx rpm's
> for idle speed? P.S., I have not even checked out
> aftermarket tach's, how much $, and how much of a pain in
> the a#* will it be to install. TIA Chris
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:01:34 EDT
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Cleaning Up and Engines

In a message dated 4/27/99 7:51:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
2insane excite.com writes:

>
I have done much to my 5.0. Any info you need ask away...it would be helpful
if I knew what year it is though.
Later
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
"Hazardous Material"
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:55:10 -0500
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Cleaning Up and Engines

IMHO, Techron good. Don't know about the others.

I don't put any cleaners in oil. No need. More likely to break some crud
loose and have it plug up a passage somewhere. If good detergent oil is
used, it will keep things that need to be clean kept clean.

At 16:48 27/04/99 PDT, you wrote:
>I was wondering if any of you had any good experiences with additives like
>fuel injector cleaner and oil additives to help clean out an engine. do they
>really work or is it just a scam?
>my next question is about engines. i have a stock 302 right now but am
>looking for more power, a 351 probably, but am wondering if this is not a
>good switch because i seem to remember on this list of a suggestion to go
>from a 351 to a 302. Or should I just get some aftermarket products. thanks
>for any and all replys.
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________
>Get your free, private email at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://mail.excite.com/
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
Jim Cannon
Houston, TX
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton
'63 Buick Riviera
'80 Ford F-150
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:04:35 -0700
From: "Josh"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Radiator/grill screen/blanket

I am trying to find one of those grill blanket/screen setups (I think they
are quilted) for my 90 F250...Any info would appreciated


Josh
berelson gte.net
Edmonds, WA



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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:47:07 -0700
From: Moe Gendron
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 302 HO
....


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