80-96-list-digest Saturday, April 17 1999 Volume 03 : Number 107



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 80-96 - Throttle Position Sensor
Re: FTE 80-96 - Good Idea and gas mileage
RE: Subject: FTE 80-96 - Throttle Position Sensor
FTE 80-96 - Re: Fuel filters
Re: [Re: FTE 80-96 - Good Idea and gas mileage]
RE: FTE 80-96 - The Great Gas Out
RE: FTE 80-96 - I made a page....wanna see?
Re: FTE 80-96 - The Great Gas Out
FTE 80-96 - RE: FTE offroad - Air filter
FTE 80-96 - 8.8 Upgrading
FTE 80-96 - 8.8 Upgrading
Re: FTE 80-96 - Good Idea and gas mileage
Re: [Re: FTE 80-96 - The Great Gas Out]
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Fuel filters
FTE 80-96 - mass-air
FTE 80-96 - Interesting page of automotive engineering calculations
Re: [Re: FTE 80-96 - The Great Gas Out]
FTE 80-96 - Engine miss Help
Re: FTE 80-96 - The Great Gas Out
Re: FTE 80-96 - The Great Gas Out

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:57:27 -0400
From: Andre Roy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Throttle Position Sensor

"Harris, Scott" wrote:
>
> I'm looking for an idling problem cure. I stop at one red light and my '85
> 302 idles fine. Stop at the next one and the idle goes up and down until it
> gets so low it dies. Doesn't matter if a/c is on or not. Starts right up
> with no problem.
>
> Wanted to know if a bad throttle position sensor would completely go out or
> could it possibly act like I described? It's got 192,000 miles on it and it
> is still the original.
>
Could be. I'd look first to the Automatic Idle Speed actuator.
Basically, it's a by-pass around the throttle plate to allow more air in
(which then signals the computer to add more fuel). Its job is to fine
tune the idle speed, especially with varying loads.

Actualy, I'd look to the computer codes first, then at the parts. Often
the codes will tell you what's wrong, usually they will just tell you
the symptoms. Sometimes they tell you nothing.

I don't have an FI Ford, so I may have the term wrong (different
manufactuers=different names for the same thing) and I sure don't know
the replacement method. :-/

> If it is, I know I need a gasket for the throttle body when I remove it, but
> can I leave all the linkeages connected and move it enough to get to the
> sensor screw? Anything else need attention while I'm in that area?
>
Do you really have to remove the throttle body to replace the TPS (or
the AIS)? If you don't have to, don't do it. (But like I said, I don't
have an FI Ford)
- --
Andre
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:00:18 -0400
From: Andre Roy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Good Idea and gas mileage

shy anne wrote:
>
> I have a question. My truck has been using a lot more gas then normal.
> I haven't checked the gas mileage yet, but the needle is dropping a lot
> faster then it normally does. any ideas on what would cause it to do
> this? Thanks, Shy
>
Could be a bunch of things. Ofthen the formulation of gasoline is
adjusted in the summer which can negatively affect milage. Temperature
chages will also affect it, but usually, the warmer it is, the better
the milage. Are you using the Air Conditioning now? Driving the same
way? Towing more?

Then again, something could be broken or worn out.
- --
Andre
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:52:41 -0500
From: Roger Lane
Subject: RE: Subject: FTE 80-96 - Throttle Position Sensor

Original Message:
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:30:44 -0500
From: "Harris, Scott"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Throttle Position Sensor

I'm looking for an idling problem cure. I stop at one red light and my '85
302 idles fine. Stop at the next one and the idle goes up and down until it
gets so low it dies. Doesn't matter if a/c is on or not. Starts right up
with no problem.

Wanted to know if a bad throttle position sensor would completely go out or
could it possibly act like I described? It's got 192,000 miles on it and it
is still the original.

If it is, I know I need a gasket for the throttle body when I remove it, but
can I leave all the linkeages connected and move it enough to get to the
sensor screw? Anything else need attention while I'm in that area?

Thanks

Scott Harris
1985 F150 S/C 302FE

I had the same problem on an '84. Yes the TPS can go completely out. On
mine, the inside piece was supposed to turn and it didn't. Replaced with a
new one and fixed my idle problem.

Roger Lane
Test/Support Analyst
IBP, Inc.
Roger.Lane ibpinc.com

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:04:04 -0700
From: johnhfleming juno.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Fuel filters

I have an '86 F150 with dual tanks also. I've found that I have to change
the fuel filter every other oil change (I go 5000 mi between changes)
otherwise I start having starting and hesitation problems. I had taken
the truck in to Ford for service several times (they charged me mega
bucks and claimed that I couldn't change the filter myself because it
took special equiptment) and they kept telling me to run gas from a
better source. I was running Shell, mostly, at the time and tried
changing but it made no difference. An "old" mechanic guy said that the
filter seems to absorb moisture from the gas and become more and more
restricted over a period of time so to just replace the filter more
often.

John

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------------------------------

Date: 16 Apr 99 07:42:15 PDT
From: William Berninghausen
Subject: Re: [Re: FTE 80-96 - Good Idea and gas mileage]

If the truck is running ok except for fuel consumption, check for a dragg=
ing
rear brake shoe--the adjusters don't work reliably. Maybe the EGR system=

crapped out (again). Always check the choke system for complete opening =
(wire
might have dropped off). Still carrying the winter ballast sand in the b=
ed? =

Don't use cheap gas; of course, the pinging will drive you crazy anyway. =

Changed the air filter recently? How's your Karma? Not kidding--sometim=
es
there IS no reason and it gets better by itself, but not often.




____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:01:30 -0600
From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - The Great Gas Out

shy anne wrote:

> for what it's worth, it is not just an email scam. the local news and
> radio stations have been reporting about it also.


Because you saw it on TV that makes it not a waste time?

I would check out this site before you follow that advice.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/library/blhoax.htm?pid=2733&cob=home

This was started in California because they lost a couple of refineries due
to fires. Naturaly the price of gas went up there and they are upset. This
is just a knee jerk reaction to the problem and not a cure. Instead of
cutting back or selecting an alternate means of transportation, they start
this silly protest. Even replying to these comments is a waste of bandwidth.

But I will tell you what, I will go farther than that, I won't even drive
that day. If everyone did it would at least make the oil industry notice. If
you believe in this protest at least do the same. Otherwise you are kidding
yourself.

IMHO, Just because you buy gas on Thursday, and don't buy gas on Friday, is
not going to show anything but make you feel good about it, like you
actually did something. How nice it is to feel warm and fuzzy about
something without having to give up anything. That is after all the
California way to do things, as long as they talk about fixing something,
and stomp their foot, that is enough, who cares if the problem is still
around afterwords.

Scott

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:08:43 -0600
From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - I made a page....wanna see?

Now thats my idea of a web page, Trucks, Motorcycles, and hunting!

Good job, except when I click on the "Bronco I" I see your '85 F-150. When I
click on your "Bronco II" I see your '78 Bronco I.

Scott

> -----Original Message-----
> From: PmctBaker [mailto:Pmbaker your-net.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 5:48 PM
> To: FORD F-150 LIST
> Subject: FTE 80-96 - I made a page....wanna see?
>
>
> Hey all,
>
> I went and did it. I made a web page. Take a look and let
> me know how I
> can make it better. Have something to add? Let me know.
>
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www3.your-net.com/~pmbaker

later
mike baker
pmbaker your-net.com

1985 F-150 4x4
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:51:38 EDT
From: LHopk99567 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - The Great Gas Out

I am curious. I signed up to be part of this discussion group, but so far it
wont let me put anything in. How is it done? who can I call or write to get
this problem solved?
I can fix my truck, but cant seem to beat this computer.
dick.
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:54:48 -0400
From: Greg Carter
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: FTE offroad - Air filter

While the intake gasket may have been damp are you sure it wasn't something
electrical?

Did it run ok if you completely removed the gasket?

I have a '91 F250 5.0L and as soon as I hit water it misfires, nothing to do
with the intake gasket, the steam created by the water hitting the exhaust
causes condensation to form inside the distributor cap, and a lot of it.
The Ford caps have a vent hold in the top that seems to let in the steam.
Try popping it off next time and see if it is wet inside. If it is dry it
off and it should run fine. My guess is that the amount of time you waited
for the gasket to dry (which I doubt a half hour would dry a paper element)
was enough to dry out the distributor cap.

Of course if it is the distributor you still have the problem of sucking
water into your intake which you need to fix anyway...

Bye.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Lillibridge [mailto:relillib mtu.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 7:48 PM
> To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com; offroad-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE offroad - Air filter
>
>
>
> Over the course of this past weekend, the snow had
> finally melted and a
> couple trails opened up. Of course, I went wheelin'.
> Everythin was fine
> and dandy, made it through a bunch of nice holes too. Then the truck
> started to lose rpm's like no other. After a quick
> inspection. I found
> that the air filter was pretty much completely soaked(almost
> able to wring
> it out). My question is: how can I remedy this situation in
> the future,
> other than keeping an extra air filter and breather with me.
> I have a '94
> F-250 with a 351...please help..I lost almost 1/2 hour
> waiting for it to
> dry...thanks!
>
>
>
> Ray - The DaZeD One
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>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:13:08 -0500
From: Steve Randa
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 8.8 Upgrading

Last night I opened the rear end in my '84 F150 to install a Powertrax
locker. The locker has become a Mustang hand-me-down. I was suprised to
see a slightly different carrier than what I'm used to. No clutches or
S-spring! Someone please educate me here...

First, is this not considered a Traction-Loc. No posi or limited slip?

Second, since I am gutting the carrier should I proceed with what's in
it or go for the spare Traction-Loc carrier out of the Mustang? Will it
fit? The real question here is which housing is stronger minus internals?

I'm also having the gear changed as well, and since the Mustang's rear
is half the age of the truck's, should I utilize any of the other parts:
caps, bearings, shims, bolts, etc.? Or is that a no no?

Finally, should I leave the axle tube bearings and seals alone if the
axle itself appears okay?

Steve Randa
'84 F150
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:30:03 -0500
From: Steve Randa
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 8.8 Upgrading

Last night I opened the rear end in my '84 F150 to install a Powertrax
locker. The locker has become a Mustang hand-me-down. I was suprised to
see a slightly different carrier than what I'm used to. No clutches or
S-spring! Someone please educate me here...

First, is this not considered a Traction-Loc. No posi or limited slip?

Second, since I am gutting the carrier should I proceed with what's in
it or go for the spare Traction-Loc carrier out of the Mustang? Will it
fit? The real question here is which housing is stronger minus internals?

I'm also having the gear changed as well, and since the Mustang's rear
is half the age of the truck's, should I utilize any of the other parts:
caps, bearings, shims, bolts, etc.? Or is that a no no?

Finally, should I leave the axle tube bearings and seals alone if the
axle itself appears okay?

Steve Randa
'84 F150
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:38:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: shy anne
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Good Idea and gas mileage

Yes I am using the A/C but I have been for some time. (We seem to go
straight from Winter to summer in Texas.) I have actually been driving
and towing less lately.

- --- Andre Roy wrote:
> shy anne wrote:
> >
> > I have a question. My truck has been using a lot
> more gas then normal.
> > I haven't checked the gas mileage yet, but the
> needle is dropping a lot
> > faster then it normally does. any ideas on what
> would cause it to do
> > this? Thanks, Shy
> >
> Could be a bunch of things. Ofthen the formulation
> of gasoline is
> adjusted in the summer which can negatively affect
> milage. Temperature
> chages will also affect it, but usually, the warmer
> it is, the better
> the milage. Are you using the Air Conditioning now?
> Driving the same
> way? Towing more?
>
> Then again, something could be broken or worn out.
> --
> Andre
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
> http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

===
- -"God forbid I shall go to any heaven where there are no horses."



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:12:04 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: [Re: FTE 80-96 - The Great Gas Out]

Forwarded for: William Berninghausen
>
>LHopk99567 aol.com wrote:
>> I am curious. I signed up to be part of this discussion group, but so f=
>ar it
>
>> wont let me put anything in. How is it done? who can I call or write to get =
>
>> this problem solved?
>> I can fix my truck, but cant seem to beat this computer.
>> dick.
>> =3D=3D FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq=
>=2Ehtml
>-------------------
>Dick:
>
Your message came through OK. If I reply to it, both your message and my
answer should go to everybody. I'm new, too.
So, what do you think of multiple-electrode spark plugs for a 300/6?
Click 'reply' and send me your opinion.
Bill


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:47:45 -0400
From: S Spaulding
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Fuel filters

When my 1980 E-350 got to be about 11 or 12 years old, we used to have
to carry a spare fuel filter at all times. There was so much rust in
the fuel systems (lines and tanks) that the filter would clog. The
truck would gradually lose power, and then die. No, it wasn't the fuel
pump.

Have you opened up one of your filters to see what was in there?

Steve

johnhfleming juno.com wrote:
>
> I have an '86 F150 with dual tanks also. I've found that I have to change
> the fuel filter every other oil change (I go 5000 mi between changes)
> otherwise I start having starting and hesitation problems. I had taken
> the truck in to Ford for service several times (they charged me mega
> bucks and claimed that I couldn't change the filter myself because it
> took special equiptment) and they kept telling me to run gas from a
> better source. I was running Shell, mostly, at the time and tried
> changing but it made no difference. An "old" mechanic guy said that the
> filter seems to absorb moisture from the gas and become more and more
> restricted over a period of time so to just replace the filter more
> often.
>
> John
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:49:37 -0500
From: "Sam Means"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - mass-air

I remember a few months back there was a good bit of discussion of the
advantages of "mass air" setup.Since that time, I have sold my 1984 f150 and
have purchased a 1994 f150 XLT with 5.0L engine and electronic OD
transmission .I would appreciate getting some answers now that I might be
interested in a conversion it if it would be beneficial. To avoid cluttering
up the Digest with things most of you already know,I would welcome even a
direct email with answers to the following questions:
1) Does my 94 already have it,and if not sure how can I tell?
2)What advantages could I expect?
3)Disadvantages?
3)Approximate cost
4)Degree of difficulty with conversion?
My truck is running 2.55x70 tires now,whereas 2.35X70 were stock,and it runs
great on level ground,but the gearing is a little tall for pulling a hill
with a strong headwind. If I lock out the OD, and get the RPM up in the 3k
to 4k range,it has no problem with hills/headwind and has adequate power for
all my useage. With the present setup,I get 15 to 17 MPG depending on
driving conditions.
Also,what about the K&N air filter? Is there an advantage that is worth the
cost?,Or is it all hype?. I know from experience it is easy to fool yourself
into believing there is an advantage when something is changed..to later
come to realize there is no noticeable difference.
Another question: when driving at speeds over app 60 mph in OD,if I
encounter a steep hill,the torque converter will unlock instead of coming
out of OD. The OD will drop out later with continued throttle pressure if
necessary. I really would have expected the OD to drop out first. Is this
normal?I will appreciate any info any of you can provide..Sam Means
smeans inetport.com

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:21:10 -0500
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Interesting page of automotive engineering calculations

I stumbled upon the following page and thought some of you guys would be
interested in playing with some of these programs:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://sura1.jlab.org/~bowling/auto_noframe.html

I have not played with them all yet, but the ones I have messed with look
good.

Jim Cannon
Houston, TX
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton
'63 Buick Riviera
'80 Ford F-150
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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:48:46 EDT
From: LHopk99567 aol.com
Subject: Re: [Re: FTE 80-96 - The Great Gas Out]

A few years ago I had an F250 with the 352 engine. That engine was a power
house but it was a 10 Mpg engine. Even pulling a 25ft travel trailer with an
11ft Roll-a-long camper and 4 adult's and 3 kids it got 10Mpg. That truck
would pull your sick grandmother off her toilet seat. I bought a new 73 F250
with the 390 and it wouldn't pull grandma off.
I put some plugs called "Fire Ring's" in the old 352 truck and they lasted a
very long time, but I didn't notice any change in the Milage or starting it
on Cold days.
Later on I did some 'Road Racing' with a very good 250CC single and tried a
multiple electrode plug in it. The result's were not good. The plug seemed to
work OK till you got on the Straight-away where they started to fade a little
on the 2nd or 3rd trip around. This isn't a very scientific report, I
realize, but suffice to say.... I haven't spent any money on them since the
60's and early 70's.
There may be a good solid engineering reason for multiple electrode plugs. I
would have to see the independent test lab's report before I'd try them
again.
I just sold my 78 F150 4X4. It has a 300 six. I liked that truck. In fact I
may repossess it.
It always started (Alaska) and got 13 Mpg. Curiously though, it was hard on
plug's but I never tried the M. E. plugs in it though.
If Your's ever gives you a hint of engine trouble, change the Cap, wires and
plugs, and I think you will have another 20,000 trouble free miles.
We had the California emissions testing up there, and I had to replace two
exhaust manifold's. They kept cracking just below the Carburator base. I had
to replace a carb too.
We bought that truck with over 200,000 miles (documented) and I put another
125,000 on it, hauling and pulling heavy load's, and I was sorry to have to
sell it.
It had the 4 speed Granny xmission, which was the only thing I didn't like
about it.
Thank's for answering. I want some information on overloads but when I tried
to input the querie it came back with "unknown Host".
We are leaving for a long vacation this tueaday so It will have to go on hold
for awhile.
Dick
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 01:26:46 -0400
From: Claude King
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Engine miss Help

91 explorer 150K miles, plugs and wires been in for about 20k. First thing in
the morning it misses for about a minute and you can smell raw gas from the
exhaust, then it stops and runs fine, when I get to about 65mph a slight miss
comes and goes. Getting good mileage, rang two cans of injector cleaner through
with last two tanks full. Is it ignition or injectors, computer show no error
codes. Do those coil packs go bad?

/ck
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 02:00:16 -0500
From: Matthew Banevich
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - The Great Gas Out

As has been said before, If your opinion doesn't match others, keep it
to yourself, and by the way the link mentioned is opinoinated
severely... please keep the opionionated mail to a minimum, because we
all joined these mailing lists to solve our problems with our Ford
Trucks........ I don't go around saying that Chevy's the best then
comes Ford, but that's my opinion, and that Dodge totally sucks....
please stop with the great gas out,

If you want to take part in it, DO SO, if you don't, DON'T !!!

Just my 6 cents





Giddens, Scott wrote:
>
> shy anne wrote:
>
> > for what it's worth, it is not just an email scam. the local news and
> > radio stations have been reporting about it also.
>
> Because you saw it on TV that makes it not a waste time?
>
> I would check out this site before you follow that advice.
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/library/blhoax.htm?pid=2733&cob=home
>
> This was started in California because they lost a couple of refineries due
> to fires. Naturaly the price of gas went up there and they are upset. This
> is just a knee jerk reaction to the problem and not a cure. Instead of
> cutting back or selecting an alternate means of transportation, they start
> this silly protest. Even replying to these comments is a waste of bandwidth.
>
> But I will tell you what, I will go farther than that, I won't even drive
> that day. If everyone did it would at least make the oil industry notice. If
> you believe in this protest at least do the same. Otherwise you are kidding
> yourself.
>
> IMHO, Just because you buy gas on Thursday, and don't buy gas on Friday, is
> not going to show anything but make you feel good about it, like you
> actually did something. How nice it is to feel warm and fuzzy about
> something without having to give up anything. That is after all the....

---

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