80-96-list-digest Tuesday, December 22 1998 Volume 02 : Number 423



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - FWD racers
FTE 80-96 - Re: Cured: Light Stumble
Re: FTE 80-96 - creeper geared for plowing
FTE 80-96 - Re: Flowmaster
FTE 80-96 - TSBs for '97 PS
Re: FTE 80-96 - TSBs for '97 PS
Re: FTE 80-96 - v-8 in rangers
FTE 80-96 - Exhaust Upgrade
RE: FTE 80-96 - 80-86 bed
Re: FTE 80-96 - 80-86 bed
FTE 80-96 - Summit shipping
Re: FTE 80-96 - 80-86 bed
Re: FTE 80-96 - 80-86 bed
FTE 80-96 - plug wires
Re: FTE 80-96 - Exhaust Upgrade
FTE 80-96 - Window motor
FTE 80-96 - wires
Re: FTE 80-96 - Window motor
Re: FTE 80-96 - Looking For
Re: FTE 80-96 - Window motor
Re: FTE 80-96 - 80-86 bed
Re: FTE 80-96 - Looking For
Re: FTE 80-96 - wires
FTE 80-96 - Re: Starting Problems

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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 04:00:27 -0800
From: "Ferino, Chris"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - FWD racers

"LMAO!!! Ken I live in an area where street and local strip racing is very
common and a good place to see some of the upincoming mechanics show off
what they have built and modified. We have kids here with 14 and 13 second
Acura LEGENDS, and of course the Honda civics and Vdubs. Then of course
there are the diehard Garbage Merchandise owners and their Camaros(the ones
towed in by FORD trucks) and last but certainly not least a HUGE contingent
of Mustang racers. Let me tell you, some of these kids and their rice
rockets embarrass the heck out of these guys with the trailer cars. They can
drive the car to the strip, change their FRONT tires to slicks, kick the
crap out of all the American trailer queens, change the tires again and
drive it home. I have seen a '90-'92 escort Gt. doing front wheel burnout's
and dusting stock mustang Gt. and cobras all day long. I love American
muscle, but with today's technology and electronic tuning, our muscle cars
better step up to the new age or we are in for a big butt kicking come the
new millennium! And no I don't think I want to see an Escort trying to tow a
trailer!!"

I know what you mean. A while ago, I saw a PPV event called "Detroit vs.
the Imports" put on by a couple of magazines - there were some MEAN-looking
front wheel drive Hondas and Acuras. But do you know which car won? A
rear-wheel-drive Mazda RX-7. It seems that axle breakage is very common
amongst the CRXs racing (as well as tearing up their front body parts when
doing burnouts).

I don't mean to offend anyone - but there's a reason they call it
"wrong-wheel-drive".
As Hank (from King Of The Hill) once said, "That's just not right!" :)

And yes, I DO own a Mustang that races from time to time - but I'm not one
of these that practices the "speed above all else" theory. I keep my
Mustang streetable - and my definition of streetable means that I can throw
the keys to my wife and let her drive it to work. (Not that I've ever
really done that - but she knows that's what I call streetable.) No big
fancy AOD treatments, cages, trans brakes or line locks for me - I'm just
going to get it as fast as I can. If I want to build a race car, I'll do
that separately. After I finish all my present Mustang and Bronco projects.
:)

(ObTruck content - I use the Bronco to tow it if it needs to be towed
anywhere, which it hasn't yet. It's also good for parts runs. :)

- --Chris
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:30:59 -0500
From: Pete Serrino
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cured: Light Stumble

The sensitivity to noise is very much a function of the source impedance.
In this case the TPS could be considered a signal source. While 4.3K ohms
might not be considered high it could still be significant given the
ignition radiation and the long lead length to the control box. Ignition
wires in proximity to EFI sensors on modern motorcycles have been
documented to cause similar problems.
FWIW I deal with signal to noise problems on a regular basis in designing
medical devices. Normal remedies include minimising source impedance (not
practical), locating the amplifier as close as possible to the signal
source (again not practical), moving away from the noise source (noise
inversely proportional to the square of the distance), and shielding the
sensor. So a steel bracket covering the sensor is another possibilty or
using shielded wires.

Pete Serrino



At 09:11 PM 12/18/98 -0600, Neal Osburn wrote:
Anyway, I would bet it was just a bad wire. The common
>theme seems to be auto-zone wires. That's the kind I had. Besides, I
>think the TPS is just a variable resistor. If so, then they aren't usually
>very sensitive to interference.
>
>Neal


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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:22:56 -0500
From: Doug Tinsman
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - creeper geared for plowing

I have plowed snow for ten years on the east coast in the worst storms
of the century. Large parking lots mostly. The trucks are mainly F250 &
F350, 4x4, gas & diesel. I consider myself & my employees to be
professional snow plow operators.

Here is my two cents worth.

Very rarely is it necessary to use low range. Half the time you can plow
in 2 WD.
Automatic trans is the only choice. (speed, ease of operation, less wear
on the truck and safety)
Always choose the highest gear you can to plow snow, it helps eliminate
wheel spin, reduces power, creates less heat build up.
You must obtain the proper speed when moving snow. Plows are designed to
pick up the snow, get it rolling, slide it to the side with a fluid
motion. You are not moving dirt with a bulldozer!
Plowing snow applies TONS of force against the truck, moving the snow at
the proper speed is much easier on the truck.

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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:32:42 -0900
From: "L WALTERS"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Flowmaster

I had a "cat-back" dual system installed at a local custom shop and they
recommended Flowmasters, 8mo. later, so do I. Glass packs have come a long
way.
I gained: low end, but I do need to let intake breath better.
There is this one mountain pass that with 2800lbs in tow before exhaust
changes (stock) my 5.0 HO would pull without putting C-6 into 2nd from D.
Now I have to shift down, I knew this would happen. So, keep in mind about
compromises, I'm sure someone on this list has got the intake "in sinc" with
aftermarket exhaust.
Bart-AK

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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:41:04 -0800
From: Nathaniel Ingersoll
Subject: FTE 80-96 - TSBs for '97 PS

Hi.
From the http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.alldata.com/consumer/TSB/20/972021BZ.html site I got the
following TSB's that I'm interested in getting more information about.
Does anyone know of a source (free hopefully) where I can get more details?

Bulletins for 1997 Ford Truck F 350 4WD Pickup V8-445 7.3L DSL Turbo
VIN F
TSB Number Issue Date TSB Title
34. 97-11-18 MAY 97 Low Performance/Lack of Power
44. 9768 MAR 97 Fuel Economy - Customer Expectations
Vs. Vehicle Usage

Thanks!
N. Ingersoll
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:36:52 -0500
From: Mike Sloane
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - TSBs for '97 PS

If all else fails, you might try your local Ford dealer.

Mike

At 11:41 AM 12/21/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi.
>From the http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.alldata.com/consumer/TSB/20/972021BZ.html site I got the
>following TSB's that I'm interested in getting more information about.
>Does anyone know of a source (free hopefully) where I can get more details?
>
> Bulletins for 1997 Ford Truck F 350 4WD Pickup V8-445 7.3L DSL Turbo
>VIN F
> TSB Number Issue Date TSB Title
> 34. 97-11-18 MAY 97 Low Performance/Lack of Power
> 44. 9768 MAR 97 Fuel Economy - Customer Expectations
>Vs. Vehicle Usage
>
>Thanks!
>N. Ingersoll
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>
Mike Sloane, Allamuchy NJ
(msloane att.net)

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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:34:03 EST
From: Kbeverwein aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - v-8 in rangers

Bryan,

I have a friend that put a 351 one in his 86 Ranger. He made the following
mods on
it: notched out the frame a little bit where the exhaust manifolds are, moved
his raditor
in front of the core support and he also cut the air conditioner housing (the
black egg
shaped box mounted on the fire wall) if my memory is correct i think he cut 4
inches or
so. He also had an F150 front axle cut down. It runs sweet. It also has the
5-speed with
an added 3-speed setup.

Brian
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:57:02 -0700
From: "Gerald L. Hinkle Jr. CPA"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Exhaust Upgrade

First of All, Happy Holidays to all of my FTE friends! I am considering
removing the catalytic converter and running true dual exhause on my truck.
(351 V8) I do not see any sensors on the Cat so I assume there would be no
effect on the computer. Is this correct. Fortunately, the county where I
reside does not require emissions testing so the effect on emissions is
irrelevent. I have found that removing the Cat Converter can free up alot
of power. Any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance for your insights!

Jerry Hinkle Jr. CPA
"RULEMAKER" 94 F-350 Crew Cab 4x4
"LTS-ROK" 80 JEEP CJ-5
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:53:39 -0600
From: Ron Madurski
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - 80-86 bed

Ouch, I paid $400 for mine and that included the installation and a rear
bumper (Big 10" drop I think). No rust, one small dent and dual tanks.
I got it from one of the flat bed dealers, it was a takeoff from a
recent conversion.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Redden [mailto:redden enter.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 1998 8:06 AM
To: 80-96-List
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 80-86 bed


Hi y'all:

Just wanted to post the fact that I ran onto a bed for sale that fits an
'80-'86
Ford F series. They claim it's in good shape and not rusted
and want $700 to $750 for it. If anyone needs this info, I'll
dig out my trusty Penny Pincher shopper mag and send it to them.
Just e-mail me at

Mike
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:23:43 -0500
From: "Michael J. Pasznik, Jr."
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 80-86 bed

I've noticed that one of the larger truck shops by me has TONS of stock
parts taking up space on their lot. It's all new stuff too, since they do
conversions for the dealerships in the area. I've no idea what kind of
prices they're asking, but if somebody needs to know I could find out for
you.

- -Mike

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ron Madurski
To: '80-96-list ford-trucks.com'
Date: Monday, December 21, 1998 5:15 PM
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - 80-86 bed



Ouch, I paid $400 for mine and that included the installation and a rear
bumper (Big 10" drop I think). No rust, one small dent and dual tanks.
I got it from one of the flat bed dealers, it was a takeoff from a
recent conversion.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Redden [mailto:redden enter.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 1998 8:06 AM
To: 80-96-List
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 80-86 bed


Hi y'all:

Just wanted to post the fact that I ran onto a bed for sale that fits an
'80-'86
Ford F series. They claim it's in good shape and not rusted
and want $700 to $750 for it. If anyone needs this info, I'll
dig out my trusty Penny Pincher shopper mag and send it to them.
Just e-mail me at

Mike
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:41:06 -0500
From: Ben Havens
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Summit shipping

>Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:29:26 -0800
>From: "Matt and Deidre"
>Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cured: light throttle stumble
>
>never gets to the point of having to go to the nearest chain store and get

>there wires. Summit does have free ground shipping! I hope nobody really


My interpretation of "free" is different from theirs I guess. Adding a $6
handling charge makes it not free, at least in my book.



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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:02:02 -0500
From: "Michael Redden"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 80-86 bed

Around here (Southeastern PA) non-rusted beds are pretty scarce.
They go for alot of money in "perfect shape". I think I would give around
$500 or more if I needed one. Others have given twice that!

The best thing is to get from someplace like Texas or Arizona.
Around here, people don't seem to travel much, unless
it's to Florida ;

Mike

michael redden enter.net

> From: Ron Madurski
>
> Ouch, I paid $400 for mine and that included the installation and a rear
> bumper (Big 10" drop I think). No rust, one small dent and dual tanks.
> I got it from one of the flat bed dealers, it was a takeoff from a
> recent conversion.
>
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:05:24 -0500
From: "Michael Redden"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 80-86 bed

Mike:

Parts can be scarce around here.

Mike R

michael redden enter.net

- ----------
> From: Michael J. Pasznik, Jr.
> I've noticed that one of the larger truck shops by me has TONS of
stock
> parts taking up space on their lot. It's all new stuff too, since they
do
> conversions for the dealerships in the area. I've no idea what kind of
> prices they're asking, but if somebody needs to know I could find out for
> you.
>
> -Mike

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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:11:18 -0500
From: Ben Havens
Subject: FTE 80-96 - plug wires

>Thats funny, not trying to start a flame war or anything, but the guys
>on the Lightning list have had nothing but trouble from the motorsports
>wires, miss at idle and lots radio noise! I can't say personally cause i
>did not purchase any as I have seen the number of complaints...I used
>Taylor wires and i am very satisfied but I haved heard good things about
>Magenor core also!
>Do you notice any of the symptons with your Motorsport wires? Maybe its
>just for the Lightning application that there is a problem but it exists
>with most manufacturers, sometimes they work great and sometimes they
>don't
>Chris
>94 Lightning#381


Hmmmm... I did not really notice much difference between the new Motorsport
wires and the originals. Maybe that should tell me something right there
:-/ Swapped in a Pioneer CD player a few weeks after the wires and was
fairly disappointed with tuner performance on it (Supertuner 3), but don't
think the stock radio's reception suffered any in the interim.
Reports of missing do concern me, since I did notice some of that on my
truck. Think I just quit paying attention to it after awhile. Maybe should
look into it some more based on your comments. Thanks for the tip.
$40 wires w/ the Ford name on them you just expect to be good. They are
made by Cooper, though, so are probably actually no different from the $18
Champion wires Kmart. I normally do not buy names, but figured Motorsport
would be a no-brainer. Maybe I was wrong about that.

Ben



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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:18:15 -0500
From: "Christopher Maher"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Exhaust Upgrade

Jerry, I have a 89 F150 4x4 Supercab with a 5.8 and C6. I had my cats taken
off and a true dual system made up by a local muffler shop back in 1993.
It's been fine, the only thing is to make sure you have a fitting welded in
the engine pipe(s) for the oxygen sensor(s).
When I first did it I was running glasspacks, now I have regular turbo
mufflers which are quieter but still have a throaty sound. Both pipes run
down the passenger side stacked on top of each other so they can get past
the transfer case and they exit on both sides behind the rear wheels.

Christopher T. Maher

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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:56:32 -0500
From: "T.C. Stoppelbein"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Window motor

Simple problem for list ; My Driver side window motor seems to have bitten
the dust at least that's how it seem - the motor runs every time the switch
is depressed but the window doesn't go up,sometimes it actually falls some
or jerks around but doesn't go up .If its the motor do anyone know a
reliable source Thank you, Chris frm.Fl.

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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:08:02 -0700
From: "Randy Kindler"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - wires

>>You get what you pay for!
>
I spent a bunch of money on a set of Mallory wires, and then a couple of
months later, I pulled my hair out trying to find the cause of a miss under
load. It turned out to be a bad wire. I replaced that wire, and a few months
later, I had the same problem with another wire. When I complained, Mallory
suggested wrapping the boots with special insulating tape. They worked OK
after that. It seemed like a lot of hassle for $100 wires, though. (I now
run Taylor wires)

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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:29:22 -0600
From: David Cole
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Window motor

At 06:56 PM 12/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Simple problem for list ; My Driver side window motor seems to have bitten
>the dust at least that's how it seem - the motor runs every time the switch
>is depressed but the window doesn't go up,sometimes it actually falls some
>or jerks around but doesn't go up .If its the motor do anyone know a
>reliable source Thank you, Chris frm.Fl.

Simple to fix. The motor has a nylon gear that will loose teeth/wear over
time until one day if finally looses enough teeth to fail. You can get a
rebuild kit for ~25. Fairly easy to do. Only difficulty will be that the
the motor and window regulator is held in place by 4 aluminum rivets.
Drill these out and then use small bolts to replace them.

If you need any more details, let me know.

Later,

David Cole

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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:49:40 -0500
From: "David Roemhild"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Looking For

Randy,

The looks of the new Shelby Series II (I think that is what he calls it) is,
as you say, distinctly Carrol Shelby, but the engine is out of an Oldsmobile
Aurora. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong. However, going to the true roots,
I think Shelby America is building some Series I cars on original chassis
Carrol had squirreled away. These all "new" Cobras come complete with the
427 and everything.

Anyone else have more information and/or corrections to my information?

Later,
David

85' Bronco "429"
89' Mark VII
70 Mark III
98' Crown Vic (narc special)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Randy
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Sunday, December 20, 1998 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Looking For


>Jerome,
>Funny that you and another guy mentioned the re-creation of the
>Cobra. The BEST, by far, American muscle car ever built and it has
>EVERYTHING to do with power-to-weight ratio (someone else mentioned
>that before too). It just so happens that Carroll Shelby is doing
>exactly that, God Bless him! Shelby North America I think is the name
>of the company. They recently released in limited production a new
>model car that's not a Cobra, but you can tell it came from the same
>maker. And man my memory fails me again and I can't remember the name
>of it. But at a cost of $108,000 u.s. I don't think anyone on here
>will be testing one out anytime soon. But in case you are interested
>it does include a weekend in Las Vegas on the racetrack learning how
>to drive it! Anyone by chance know of a possible web address?
>
>Later,
>Brew


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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:58:22 EST
From: ROlson1039 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Window motor

it might just be the plastic strap that attaches to most of the power windows
these days you need to pul off the door panel and check this out beofre you
start buying wiondow motors cause theyre like $110...used... the strap
installed is like less than $20-
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:59:58 EST
From: ROlson1039 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 80-86 bed

In Soouth east PA theres a great junkyard called Harrys U pull it in Hazleton
you can find anything and i do mean ANYTHING in there
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:46:24 -0800
From: Randy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Looking For

David,
Yes, the Series I is VERY sweet. And it is powered by a warmed over
Aurora motor. However I don't think the Cobra's he's building will
come w/the 427, but you may be able to get it that way. I found a web
page (thought I posted it, but will again anyway). Somewhere in the
specs it mentions "assuming customer provides 427" or something to
that effect. I didn't get a chance to read it too well, but I don't
remember seeing a turn-key 4000 series Cobra price. It is nice to see
that it is all Carroll Shelby, no one for him to answer to, except
himself. More to come, I'm sure. :)
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.carrollshelby.com

Later,
Brew

David Roemhild wrote:
>
> Randy,
>
> The looks of the new Shelby Series II (I think that is what he calls it) is,
> as you say, distinctly Carrol Shelby, but the engine is out of an Oldsmobile
> Aurora. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong. However, going to the true roots,
> I think Shelby America is building some Series I cars on original chassis
> Carrol had squirreled away. These all "new" Cobras come complete with the
> 427 and everything.
>
> Anyone else have more information and/or corrections to my information?
>
> Later,
> David
>
> 85' Bronco "429"
> 89' Mark VII
> 70 Mark III
> 98' Crown Vic (narc special)
>
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:44:30 -0800
From: "Matt and Deidre"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - wires

You paid $100 for spark plug wires? Spark plug wires don't really increase
power that much, do they? I was always told the wires just carry the spark.
(a conductor) You want a good set, but $100??? I hope you had the ignition
system that produced enough current to weld with!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
>I spent a bunch of money on a set of Mallory wires, and then a couple of
>months later, I pulled my hair out trying to find the cause of a miss under
>load. It turned out to be a bad wire. I replaced that wire, and a few
months
>later, I had the same problem with another wire. When I complained, Mallory
>suggested wrapping the boots with special insulating tape. They worked OK
>after that. It seemed like a lot of hassle for $100 wires, though. (I now
>run Taylor wires)
>
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>

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Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 10:04:57 PST
From: "Casey Vandor"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Starting Problems....


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