80-96-list-digest Saturday, December 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 413



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 80-96 - Re:Re:Re: starting problems
Re: FTE 80-96 - Aftermarket Fuel Tanks
Re: FTE 80-96 - Headers
Re: FTE 80-96 - 302/5L pinging revisited
FTE 80-96 - MSD
Re: FTE 80-96 - GT-40
Re: FTE 80-96 - AOD woes
Re: FTE 80-96 - AOD help?
Re: FTE 80-96 - GT-40
FTE 80-96 - Radius Arm Bracket
FTE 80-96 - Front End Completion
Re: FTE 80-96 - Radius Arm Bracket
Re: FTE 80-96 - Radius Arm Bracket
Re: FTE 80-96 - Radius Arm Bracket
FTE 80-96 - Exhaust on 4.9L
Re: FTE 80-96 - Front End Completion
FTE 80-96 - White smoke
Re: FTE 80-96 - Front End Completion
Re: FTE 80-96 - Dual Exhaust
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re:Re:Re: starting problems

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 06:53:23 EST
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re:Re:Re: starting problems

Bart,
Are those the starters like the ones the after-market is selling as a "high
torque mini." I have priced out the ones called "Mean Green" and they are
pretty expensive. If you have had good experience with these then maybe the
info on where to get them for cheaper than $400 would benefit all of us to
know. I do know that because they are much smaller and turn the motor over
quicker, that they do not use as much battery power to start the motor and
also do it quicker due to the gearing ratio. I have a couple of friends who
have bought these style starters to turn over their high compression racing
motors and they work like champs.
Wayne Foy
FLR150 aol.com
'94 F150 Flareside Supercab
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.aol.com/flr150/auto/index.htm
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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:21:31 -0500
From: Pete Serrino
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Aftermarket Fuel Tanks

At 04:54 PM 12/10/98 -0500, Michael J. Pasznik, Jr. wrote:
> I opted for the simple steel route and ordered one through JC Whitney.
>It was on an '84 Bronco, and it went in without any problems at all.
>-Mike

Also check out your local auto wrecker or parts store. I just replaced the
rear tank on my '92 with a new steel tank made in Canada and $15 less than
JC Whitney and no shipping costs.
3M or similar rustproofing should make the tank last as long as the
vehicle. The rear went because it had never been coated. The front which
was rust proofed has no signs of rust.

Pete Serrino

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:47:40 -0600
From: Steve Randa
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Headers



> >>anybody had good luck with any
> >>particular brand of headers for a 302 for an 88 4x4?
> >>I am looking and want to know a concensus.
> >>thanks,
> >>Sam Ellsworth
>

I bought a set of Bassani equal length shorties and their complete
off-road exhaust. I love the headers except that the flange is not one
piece. Probably going to be a nightmare if I ever have to take them off
and reinstall them. They came with ceramic coating and the looks of them
are spectacular (like a bunch of coiled snakes). Another thing I might
note is that spark plug access is not bad like with some other equal
lengths I've had experience with.

Steve Randa
'84 F150

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:17:02 -0500
From: Garr&Pam
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 302/5L pinging revisited

Pete Serrino wrote:
>
> I took Wayne's advice and called a dealer. Actually a friend who is a
> service manager at a large multi-franchise outfit (not Ford).
> He has worked for Ford though and his recollection is the TPS on the late
> models simply bolt in with no adjustment ( at least it is not possible to
> rotate the TPS). This jives with the sensor as the slots have been filled
> in and only round mounting holes remain.
> He did indicate on some vehicles (not necessarily Fords) the throttle
> plates can gum up and affect TPS operation. I won't know if this is
> possible on the 5L Ford but will check. He suggested cleaning the Throttle
> plates with O2 sensor safe solvent.
> So I guess my next and hopefully last question is Chris what do you adjust
> to change the reading?
> And yes I am a performance junkie as well but on 2 wheels, not 4.
>

Welp some of them are non adjustable if you just have two round mounting
holes instead of two oval shaped holes so that the TPS itself can be
turned then yours is non adjustable! If that is the case you just unhook
the wires take the two screws out and apply the new one!
Hope this helps
Chris
94 Lightning #381
NLOC#238
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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:44:31 -0500
From: hemi-cbx juno.com (Hemi Z.)
Subject: FTE 80-96 - MSD

I have an MSD 6A that I'd like to put on my '93 302. The truck is stock.
Does anyone have any experience with his installation? Will there be
any problem with the fuel injection's signal from the ignition?

Thanks
MHZ

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:13:05 -0500
From: "T.C. Stoppelbein"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - GT-40

Well hello All ,
A brief intro : My name is Chris Stoppelbein and I live in Central Florida
and have driven almost every type of truck there is and have had good and
bad in all . I'm the proud owner of an '88 F150 4X4 Lariat , 5.0 EFI , 4"
body lifts , AOD, 35x12.50x15 , 187,000 hard miles and still looks good .

My question for the group is a repeat since I received no reply the first
time ; I'm trying to find a more efficient and attractive intake for my F150
and am leaning toward the GT-40 intake or the Cobra intake and would
appreciate any help available . Would these intakes work on my engine ? What
other mods would be necessary for a mildly hot street and off-road engine ?
Would I need a new throttle body , if so how big ? Would I need new
injectors , if so how big ? Would the expense of mass air be advisable ?
Thanks in advance ..

Chris

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:13:44 -0000
From: "Radoje Spasojevic"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - AOD woes

I would be very interested in DIY ADO rebuild info, my AOD is starting to go
out on my '90 Bronco and I have considered rebuilding it my self.

Rade
- -----Original Message-----
From: FLR150 aol.com
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - AOD woes


>Joe,
>I have a friend that has had what sounds like a similar problem with his
AOD.
>It took a complete valve body update, soft parts rebuild kit, and a new
torque
>convertor to solve his woes. All the work was done by my friend and all the
>parts were after-market upgrades from Art Carr (valve body and soft parts
kit)
>and Precision Industries (torque convertor). The AOD is commonly called the
>stock "slushbox" by most trans. shops as the factory parts seem to wear out
>too fast and cant hold the beating most of like to give our trucks. I have
an
>article that I believe was in Muscle Mustang and Fast Ford mag, that shows
a
>complete rebuild kit that has all the parts you would need. Precision
>Industries is a great after-market company that has done immense R & D work
on
>solving the chronic AOD problems. If you email me off the list I can tell
you
>which issue it was in and give you any other info I can garner this weekend
>from my friend who did his own rebuild.
>Regards,
>Wayne Foy
>FLR150 aol.com
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.aol.com/flr150/auto/index.htm
>'94 F150 Flareside Supercab
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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:20:27 -0000
From: "Radoje Spasojevic"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - AOD help?

In answer to your questions:

1. When you shift from D to 1 and you are going above (I think?) 10 mph the
tranny shifts to second, below 10(?)mph it shifts to first.

2.The parking pawl must be broken off, you will need to remove the entire
valve body to get at it, it is right next to the shift lever assembly in the
valve body housing.

3.No idea on this one but my AOD is making a vibration on acceleration and a
little during cruise. We're probably both in for a rebuild soon :^(

4. This is a common trait on AODs, of course if the rpm's are going REALLY
high it might be another indicator of interal problems.

Hope this helps.

Rade
- -----Original Message-----
From: David Chowenhill Ladd
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 11:12 PM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - AOD help?


>hello, new listmember here...
>
>ive got a few quirks with my AOD and im wondering if anyone here knows
>whats going on. some background on the vehicle, its an 84 E150 with a
>302/AOD and 150k. 130k of those were work truck/city miles (as far as i
>can tell), then i bought it and have put about 20k over the last 3
>years. Obviously its not driven much anymore, just as a recreational
>vehicle (toting my racebike up and down the state) and for commuting in
>crappy weather (i usually ride a motorcycle to work).
>
>so... on to the questions.
>
>1. Ford seems to have decided that i dont need to be able to manually
>select 2nd gear. The column mounted lever has P,R,N,OD,D,L. I've never
>yet encountered a situation where i needed to lock it into low, but i've
>many a time wanted to manually kick it from drive to 2nd (hills, in
>town, etc.). Is there any way to do this?
>
>2. Park does not hold the vehicle. It is basically just like neutral.
>Is this something i should be concerned with? i dropped the pan once
>and did not find anything in there (someone once told me that there is a
>pin that probably busted off and is now loose, i was looking for it).
>
>3. There is a noticable vibration when cruising in overdrive. It gets
>worse the harder the load, and is also rather bad on trailing throttle.
>Just cruising flat land with no load it is barely there. any thoughts?
>
>4. when it kicks itself from OD to drive under a heavy load, the rpm's
>momentarily race up before setting into drive. It does not do this if i
>kick it down manually.
>
>ok, thats all for now... i've got a few other driveline related
>questions, but i'll save them for another day.
>
>later,
>david.
>
>davidladd geocities.com
>Novato, CA
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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:02:16 -0000
From: "Radoje Spasojevic"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - GT-40

The biggest problem with using the Cobra or GT-40 manifolds is that they use
the single bore throttle body whereas the truck engines use a dual bore
throttle body. In order to use Mustang type manifolds you would also have
to get the car style throttle body, EGR setup and air box. A better
solution IMHO is to go with an Edelbrock intake manifold which allows you to
keep the twin throttle body setup. Edelbrock also makes a larger bore twin
thottle body too. As far as a mass air conversion goes, it is pretty much a
requirement if ou plan on doing any of the mods you are talking about,
especially if want to go with bigger heads.
Hope this helps.

Rade
- -----Original Message-----
From: T.C. Stoppelbein
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - GT-40


>Well hello All ,
> A brief intro : My name is Chris Stoppelbein and I live in Central Florida
>and have driven almost every type of truck there is and have had good and
>bad in all . I'm the proud owner of an '88 F150 4X4 Lariat , 5.0 EFI , 4"
>body lifts , AOD, 35x12.50x15 , 187,000 hard miles and still looks good .
>
>My question for the group is a repeat since I received no reply the first
>time ; I'm trying to find a more efficient and attractive intake for my
F150
>and am leaning toward the GT-40 intake or the Cobra intake and would
>appreciate any help available . Would these intakes work on my engine ?
What
>other mods would be necessary for a mildly hot street and off-road engine ?
>Would I need a new throttle body , if so how big ? Would I need new
>injectors , if so how big ? Would the expense of mass air be advisable ?
>Thanks in advance ..
>
> Chris
>
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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:27:17 -0600
From: "Rick Wojciechowski"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Radius Arm Bracket

Gang,
I spent last night and into this morning drilling out those
damn rivets on the radius arm bracket so's I can change
out the engine side of the bushings. Man that was a real
pain in the ass(sorry). Anyways I started with a 1/4"
bit and went through the center to about even with the
bracket surface(maybe slightly deeper). The took a
1/2" drillbit and drilled it out to just about the bracket
surface. Then took a few assorted cold chisels and
a 3 lb. hammer and finished them off. Man I gotta buy
me a torch and one of them air compressors one of these
days. I Wonder if Gary is still using his. :-) Anyways each
bracket had three rivets and one 17mm screw. Anyways
ofcourse the next time the bushing change will be a snap. :-)
I worked so late and got to work late today that I forgot
to bring the bracket in with me to go get the proper
screw diameter. :-(

- --
Thanks,
Rick Wojo
'83 Fsize BRONCO,Stock I-6,"The BROWN BULL",33x12.5x15-Mud Terrains
'92 Mstng 5.0L
'95 eclipse-Wife's(For Sale)


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:28:24 -0600
From: "Rick Wojciechowski"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Front End Completion

Gang,
Like I wrote earlier I drilled out the rivets for the radius
arm bracket. Now at lunch time I went and got the case hardened
bolts, nuts, washers and lockwashers from a fastener supply
company. Now just to double check myself, was grade 5 bolts
cool to use for the bracket ? Cause thats what I bought. Anyways
after putting in the ball joints(upper/lower on both sides) two
months ago along with all new u-joints in the front axles, and tonight
I will finish the radius arms, new pivot bushings and new tie-rod ends
I think my front end will be complete and brand new. The current
tie-rod ends were fine but it just didn't seem complete without
putting in new ones, cause I don't know the last time they were replaced

before I got the truck in '96. By the way all bushings and tie-rod ends
are the MOOG brand. So the point of this short message is. :-)
Are the grade 5 bolts cool for the radius arm brackets or should
I have gotten grade 8 ? I told my wife I wouldn't be out in the
garage until 1:30a.m. again tonight, but I very well could be. :-)

- --
Thanks,
Rick Wojo
'83 Fsize BRONCO,Stock I-6,"The BROWN BULL",33x12.5x15-Mud Terrains
'92 Mstng 5.0L
'95 eclipse-Wife's(For Sale)


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 16:37:09 EST
From: ROlson1039 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Radius Arm Bracket

Look guy when youre done with yours mine needs new bushings too so Ill
bring you my truck and a case of beer....
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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:10:09 -0500
From: "Michael J. Pasznik, Jr."
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Radius Arm Bracket

Rick,

Your timing is unbelievable! Just this morning while I was driving to
work I was thinking about where I'd come up with the money to have that done
at a shop and decided that I'd first look into doing it myself. This
weekend was going to be when I'd go over everything, and post the usual "Is
it going to be as bad as it looks?" e-mail on Monday.
Thanks for letting me know what I'm in for!

- -Mike

- -----Original Message-----
From: Rick Wojciechowski
To: FORD Truck List
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 4:38 PM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Radius Arm Bracket


Gang,
I spent last night and into this morning drilling out those
damn rivets on the radius arm bracket so's I can change
out the engine side of the bushings. Man that was a real
pain in the ass(sorry). Anyways I started with a 1/4"
bit and went through the center to about even with the
bracket surface(maybe slightly deeper). The took a
1/2" drillbit and drilled it out to just about the bracket
surface. Then took a few assorted cold chisels and
a 3 lb. hammer and finished them off. Man I gotta buy
me a torch and one of them air compressors one of these
days. I Wonder if Gary is still using his. :-) Anyways each
bracket had three rivets and one 17mm screw. Anyways
ofcourse the next time the bushing change will be a snap. :-)
I worked so late and got to work late today that I forgot
to bring the bracket in with me to go get the proper
screw diameter. :-(

- --
Thanks,
Rick Wojo
'83 Fsize BRONCO,Stock I-6,"The BROWN BULL",33x12.5x15-Mud Terrains
'92 Mstng 5.0L
'95 eclipse-Wife's(For Sale)


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 21:42:21 EST
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Radius Arm Bracket

Rick,
Just how much do you charge for redoing the bushings on the front of the
trucks. If your wife lets you spend the night in the garage you can do say 2 a
day right? =)
LMAO..just had to put my 2 cents in!!!!
Wayne Foy
FLR150 aol.com
'94 F150 Flareside Supercab
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.aol.com/flr150/auto/index.htm
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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 19:37:24 PST
From: "Chris Mahaffey"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Exhaust on 4.9L

It's that time again for me to replace the exhaust on my 92 Flareside.
It has the 4.9L with stock exhaust. I've been thinking about going with
a cat-back system either 3" single or duals from the muffler back. I've
read the ads that claim up to 20 more HP but I don't know what to expect
with the 4.9. Any ideas? Any other ideas on how to improve the
performance? I'm not looking to make a fast truck out of it but I pull
a boat with it and some of the hills really make it work hard.

Also, I've found I need to replace the oil pan because it's rusting out.
Is this a common occurance? Is it possible to replace it without
pulling the tranny (4spd manual)? I had never heard of the oil pan
rusting out, but just about 2 months ago my dad had to replace the one
in his truck (88 F150, 5.0L )

Thanks


______________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 21:57:20 -0600
From: Buck Shoff
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Front End Completion

Rick Wojciechowski wrote:

> Gang,
> Like I wrote earlier I drilled out the rivets for the radius
> arm bracket. Now at lunch time I went and got the case hardened
> bolts, nuts, washers and lockwashers from a fastener supply
> company. Now just to double check myself, was grade 5 bolts
> cool to use for the bracket ? Cause thats what I bought. (snip)
> Are the grade 5 bolts cool for the radius arm brackets or should
> I have gotten grade 8 ? I told my wife I wouldn't be out in the
> garage until 1:30a.m. again tonight, but I very well could be. :-)
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Rick Wojo
> '83 Fsize BRONCO,Stock I-6,"The BROWN BULL",33x12.5x15-Mud Terrains
> '92 Mstng 5.0L
> '95 eclipse-Wife's(For Sale)

Hi Rick,
I used Grade 8 in my Ranger. I don't know if 5's will work or not, but
think of the shock loads that they take when the front wheel hits something
at speed. They also take a pretty good load during severe braking. Any
way, I used 8's in the Ranger and haven't had any problems. Oh, I should
mention that it is a 4x4 and used as such. I wouldn't use the 5's.
Whatever you use, crawl back under in a couple hundred miles and check them
for tight.
Just my opinion. Good luck. Buck Shoff

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 21:54:44 -0600
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: FTE 80-96 - White smoke

Hey, Shy-
What did you ever conclude about the white smoke problem you were having?
Was it the vacuum modulator on the transmission? How's the old truck running?

Shy-anne wrote:
"yep..there's at least one lady hehe
Shy-anne"



Jim Cannon
Houston, TX
'29 Ford Model A Phaeton
'63 Buick Riviera
'80 Ford F-150
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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 01:55:41 -0800
From: Randy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Front End Completion

Rick,
Go with the grade 8's. The loads that rivet was put under caused
problems which should be an indicator for you. Just for those who
don't know you can tell the grade of a bolt by the number of 'tick'
marks around the top of the hex head. Count them and ADD 2. A number
2, low grade will not have any marks. A number 5 will have a tick on
every other flat on the hex for a total of 3 and a grade 8 will have a
tick on every flat for a total of 6 (and are usually a gold color from
the heat-treat). Another FYI, the Metric uses a totally different
measurement although I have no idea what it is. I do know that they
have 8.8 and 10.9 (probably others too) marked on the head which can
be deceiving. The 10.9 is what is equivalent to an SAE Grade 8 bolt.
And I think the 8.8 is similar to a grade 5.

Take care,
Randy



Rick Wojciechowski wrote:
>
> Gang,
> Like I wrote earlier I drilled out the rivets for the radius
> arm bracket. Now at lunch time I went and got the case hardened
> bolts, nuts, washers and lockwashers from a fastener supply
> company. Now just to double check myself, was grade 5 bolts
> cool to use for the bracket ? Cause thats what I bought.

- -----snip-----

> Thanks,
> Rick Wojo
> '83 Fsize BRONCO,Stock I-6,"The BROWN BULL",33x12.5x15-Mud Terrains
> '92 Mstng 5.0L
> '95 eclipse-Wife's(For Sale)
>
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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:09:04 -0800
From: Randy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Dual Exhaust

Matt,
If you have a 4x4 you will have to run both exhausts down the
passenger side, at least w/the BW1356 x-case you will since there's
about 1/8" clearance from the frame...
It is legal now to run the exhaust out in front of the rear tires at
least on the passenger side so that takes care of your tank proximity
problem. There's plenty of room over there for two turbo-style
mufflers installed vertically, but as for the cats, that may be a
problem. Just FYI.

Later,
Randy

Matt and Deidre wrote:
>
> Has anyone here ran a true dual system and dumped it under the bed? I
> was considering this idea until I noticed the fuel tank in the way. I
> figured the way you would have to route the exhaust; you might as well run a
> set of headers into a performance Y, then to the cat onto the muffler. I
> was planning on the 2 chambered Flowmaster. Anyone here used flowmaster?
> Any gains?
>
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Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:22:02 -0800
From: Randy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re:Re:Re: starting problems

Guys,
4x4 Power just had an article on starters. They tested three, the
original and OEM replacement and a Mean Green high-torque starter.
They did two different tests. I'll tell you what I can remember but
will be happy to get all the info if interested. The first test was a
timed 10-foot run. They disconnected the ignition and cranked away.
The original took 16.xx seconds to do it and the 'Green' 8.xx secs.
About 1/2 the time, wow! Also it had much less drain on the battery
as you mentioned. The other test was an up hill one and they ran
until the truck wouldn't go anymore. I can't remember the distance,
but all the starters stopped from overheating, not battery drain. I
think they cranked over 30 seconds though moving the truck that whole
time uphill, that's asking ALOT from a starter. They let it sit for a
few minutes and all the trucks started up. It shined in that test
too, but I can't remember the numbers off-hand. As I said, if someone
is interested I'll post the results. Or contact me off-list. I love
how they never post any prices for these thing, if that $400 dollar
price is the lowest, I can see why. I have seen high-torques startes
in the catalogs (Summit and Jegs for example) for 250-300. Sometimes
less, but now usually less for Ford.

And Casey, I agree that something is amiss w/the starter in this
case. I know you recently replaced it, but that doesn't mean that
can't be the problem. Take it and have it bench tested under load.
But beware, this doesn't always help either. I had a Camaro that went
thru alot of starters, but one or two worked just fine when
bench-tested. Also, make sure it's not binding. Add a shim in there
even if it didn't have one, maybe the previous owner lost it or
whatever, maybe the new bendix gear is a little out of tolerance or
something. This would turn the truck over, but the binding would put
a huge load on it, usually not even letting the truck turn over, but
there are exeptions. You are so close now to getting this thing done,....


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