80-96-list-digest Friday, December 11 1998 Volume 02 : Number 412



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - Re: 302/5L pinging revisited
FTE 80-96 - Problems with heater control
Re: FTE 80-96 - 302/5L pinging revisited
FTE 80-96 - Re: Starting Problem
Re: FTE 80-96 - 302/5L pinging revisited
RE: FTE 80-96 - Re: Starting Problem
FTE 80-96 - Aftermarket Fuel Tanks
RE: FTE 80-96 - Aftermarket Fuel Tanks
Re: FTE 80-96 - Aftermarket Fuel Tanks
FTE 80-96 - K & N FILTERS
Re: FTE 80-96 - Headers
FTE 80-96 - AOD woes
Re: FTE 80-96 - AOD woes
Re: FTE 80-96 - K & N FILTERS
Re: FTE 80-96 - Problems with heater control
Re: FTE 80-96 - What is Tire siping ??
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Starting Problem
Re: FTE 80-96 - Headers
FTE 80-96 - Dual Exhaust
FTE 80-96 - Re:Re:Re: starting problems
Re: FTE 80-96 - AOD woes

=======================================================================

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:45:43 -0500
From: John Wickerham
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: 302/5L pinging revisited

Pete,

I'm no expert, but in my experience, pinging can occur from
either a lean or a rich condition. I've played with the
mixture on my S10 Blazer and found that if I lean out the mix,
that the ping/knocking on accelleration disappears.

Sounds like you're on the right track with your TPS though.

Later,
John

>A few days ago I posted regarding my '92 302 and a pinging problem I had
>no responses yet but more data has come to light.
> I reset the computer codes and have been able to regenerate an error
>related to the Throttle Position sensor. I assume this could be the
>culprit if it was causing a too lean condition.
> I don't have any installation data on these. My Haynes manual tells me
>to take it to the dealer. The TPS appears to be simple potentiometer. I
>intend to take a resistence reading on the old one at the idle position
>and then install the new one so the reading is the same. I presume this
>could be done by measuring voltage at some point as well with the
>ignition on.
> Can anyone tell me the proper way to install this device? No dealers
>please :)

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:01:22 -0600
From: Roger Lane
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Problems with heater control

I have a 84 F150 with a slight problem.
No matter where the heater control is set (Defrost, Heat, Vent), it blows
all the air out of the AC vents.
I know there are some vacuum motors that control where the air is sent, but
I don't know which one('s) to look at.
If anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to e-mail me directly. I am
currently subscribed to the digest so I only get the messages once a day
from the list.

Thank you.

Roger Lane
Test/Support Analyst
(402)241-3570
Roger.Lane IBPINC.COM

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:07:43 -0500
From: Garr&Pam
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 302/5L pinging revisited

FLR150 aol.com wrote:
>
> Pete,
> It would be safe to assume that if the TPS was having problems, it is probably
> not showing the correct resistance. If this is the case wouldn't it be kinda
> silly to set the new one off the reading of the old one? Just checking! Go buy
> a Ford service manual, or a good Chilton's manual. They have the correct ohms
> reading that you want to use for the stock setting. Or just call the dealer
> parts department and they will probably tell ya where to set it.
> Wayne Foy
> '94 F150 Flareside Supercab

The TPS doesn't respond to throttle until it hits 1.0 volts! The setting
should be .95 I think in the manaul...but guys on the Lightning list
suggest setting it to .999 or as close to 1.0 as you can get without
hitting 1.0, help improve responsiveness...not much but you know us
performance junkies are!
Chris
94 Lightning #381
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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:45:35 -0700
From: "Smeins, Larry"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Starting Problem

I had a similar problem with my son's F-150. We replaced the starter with
the best rebuilt NAPA had to offer. It failed in less than a week.
Replaced it again, under warranty, and no problems since. If your starter
is like the V8s I've worked on changing the starter is a PITA. Love that
300 6, fifteen minutes to replace the starter.

Larry

>Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 16:19:43 PST
>From: "Casey Vandor" >
>Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Starting Problem

>Ok I went ahead and bought a new battery also. Same scenario, it will
>crank good for about 2 seconds and peter off into nothing. We tried
>jumping it again, and even with good heavy jumper cables I cannot get it
>to crank for more than one to two seconds. Everything from the battery
>to the starter (including ignt switch) has been replaced. Is there
>something I am overlooking? (Heres what has been replaced: Battery,all
>cables, solenoid, volt regulator, starter (rebuilt though), ignition
>switch.

>Thanks,
>Casey

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:05:24 -0500
From: Pete Serrino
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 302/5L pinging revisited

I took Wayne's advice and called a dealer. Actually a friend who is a
service manager at a large multi-franchise outfit (not Ford).
He has worked for Ford though and his recollection is the TPS on the late
models simply bolt in with no adjustment ( at least it is not possible to
rotate the TPS). This jives with the sensor as the slots have been filled
in and only round mounting holes remain.
He did indicate on some vehicles (not necessarily Fords) the throttle
plates can gum up and affect TPS operation. I won't know if this is
possible on the 5L Ford but will check. He suggested cleaning the Throttle
plates with O2 sensor safe solvent.
So I guess my next and hopefully last question is Chris what do you adjust
to change the reading?
And yes I am a performance junkie as well but on 2 wheels, not 4.

Pete Serrino


Or just call the dealer
>> parts department and they will probably tell ya where to set it.
>> Wayne Foy
>> '94 F150 Flareside Supercab
>
>The TPS doesn't respond to throttle until it hits 1.0 volts!
>Chris
>94 Lightning #381


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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:27:44 -0700
From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Re: Starting Problem

Casey,

It has to be the starter, Maybe the motor is nearly frozen either by the
bearings/pistons seized or the water is frozen in the cooling system.
Something is dragging, either the starter or the motor. The electrical
contacts in the starter may be defective and not able to handle the load.

I have had a lot of luck with rebuilt parts but I have heard from friends
about bad ones. It does happen sometimes. If it has a manual transmission I
would try pulling it to see if it starts. On my '74 F-250 I would always
park on hills when my battery was going bad and it would start right up
after a few feet of coasting until I could afford a new battery.

Scott

> Ok I went ahead and bought a new battery also. Same scenario, it will
> crank good for about 2 seconds and peter off into nothing. We tried
> jumping it again, and even with good heavy jumper cables I cannot get it
> to crank for more than one to two seconds. Everything from the battery
> to the starter (including ignt switch) has been replaced. Is there
> something I am overlooking? (Heres what has been replaced: Battery,all
> cables, solenoid, volt regulator, starter (rebuilt though), ignition
> switch.
>
> Thanks,
> Casey
>
> ______________________________________________________
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:17:47 -0600
From: Geoffrey Schrag
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Aftermarket Fuel Tanks

While crawling around under my truck last week I noticed I had developed
a leak in the fuel tank-it looks like its getting worse and I'm going to
have to siphon out the fuel. I'm wondering if anyone could recommend an
aftermarket tank? I guess I'd like to increase the capacity (was 25gal) and
go with a plastic one to avoid future corrosion problems, also I don't want
to decrease the clearance back there too much either.

Thanks Again,

Geof Schrag
1980 Bronco
351M, 4sp
gschrag bitstream.net

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:20:11 -0600
From: DuaneKaufman LunarCorp.com (Duane Kaufman)
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Aftermarket Fuel Tanks

Hello!


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Geoffrey Schrag
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 2:18 PM
> To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 80-96 - Aftermarket Fuel Tanks
>
>
>
> While crawling around under my truck last week I noticed I had developed
> a leak in the fuel tank-it looks like its getting worse and I'm going to
> have to siphon out the fuel. I'm wondering if anyone could recommend an
> aftermarket tank? I guess I'd like to increase the capacity (was

I bought plastic tanks from an outfit named MTS, Phone: 1-800-522-1622 They
delivered rapidly and the quality of the tanks seemed good.

Duane Kaufman

> 25gal) and
> go with a plastic one to avoid future corrosion problems, also I
> don't want
> to decrease the clearance back there too much either.
>
> Thanks Again,
>
> Geof Schrag
> 1980 Bronco
> 351M, 4sp
> gschrag bitstream.net
>
>

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:54:31 -0500
From: "Michael J. Pasznik, Jr."
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Aftermarket Fuel Tanks

Geof,

Back in my teenage years (which weren't all that long ago...) I used to
have this running joke with my friends that my truck's gas mileage was so
bad that it would be using fuel just sitting in the driveway. The punchline
turned out to be that it was true.
I opted for the simple steel route and ordered one through JC Whitney.
It was on an '84 Bronco, and it went in without any problems at all.
Perfect fit, and nothing came up that I can think of warning you about. It
might be considered a cheap alternative to a plastic one, but I was
completely happy with it.

- -Mike

- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Schrag
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, December 10, 1998 3:56 PM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Aftermarket Fuel Tanks



While crawling around under my truck last week I noticed I had developed
a leak in the fuel tank-it looks like its getting worse and I'm going to
have to siphon out the fuel. I'm wondering if anyone could recommend an
aftermarket tank? I guess I'd like to increase the capacity (was 25gal) and
go with a plastic one to avoid future corrosion problems, also I don't want
to decrease the clearance back there too much either.

Thanks Again,

Geof Schrag
1980 Bronco
351M, 4sp
gschrag bitstream.net

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:59:04 -0700
From: "Ellsworth, Sam"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - K & N FILTERS

gentlemen,
and ladies (if there are any)
sorry about the yelling the other day, but in my job I have to leave it
on caps lock. I will try to remember next time. I wanted to put my 2
cents worth on k & n filters. I put one in my 88 and noticed an
improvement in performance. not a huge one, but it breathes easier. I
think I may take off the intake between the hood and box though. I think
the flow is being restricted there also.
I was working on my truck last night changing an "actuator" in the
steering column and got frustrated and called the dealer to fax me a
diagram of the column and then called back for instructions on how to
get that thing out and I got the special tool answer. luckily it is a
home town place and they parts guy said he would stop by and show me how
to do it.

I feel for the guy with the junker truck that he has to sell. I had one
of those once. it was a 87 from the four corners area (ut, co, az, nm).
I put 3,000 into payments for one year, and 3,000 into parts and labor.
fan clutches, starters, front end jobs, input shafts on trans, throwout
bearings, u-joints, etc. after on year I got rid of it. it was burying
me. I finally had to spend the money on fixing it that I was going to
use for the payment. I was trying to live on my own in an apt. and it
was all I could do to keep it anyway. so all I have to say is you gotta
do what you gotta do pal.

I appreciate the responses to joining the group. I do have another
question for you gurus out there. anybody had good luck with any
particular brand of headers for a 302 for an 88 4x4?
I am looking and want to know a concensus.
thanks,
sam ellsworth

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:14:15 EST
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Headers

Sam,
In your reply to the K&N thread you wrote,
>anybody had good luck with any
>particular brand of headers for a 302 for an 88 4x4?
>I am looking and want to know a concensus.
>thanks,
>Sam Ellsworth
Well I have a newer 302(5.0L) and I have tried Headman and Dynomax, and now I
am with Flowtech. The Flowtech cost much less and they come JetHot COATED. The
headers for my 2wheel drive were $280. And they bolted right up to the stock
and later after-market highflow Y-pipe from BBK that I added. They gave me
about 10-15 horses, not really that noticeable on the low end but man, the top
end opened way up. And of course it sounds much meaner too.
Just my 2 cents,
Wayne Foy
FLR150 aol.com
PS- Go visit my personal webpage and tell me what you think...its at
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.aol.com/flr150/auto/index.htm
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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:14:20 EST
From: ACMERCG aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - AOD woes

Hey Guys... I think I have narrowed my slipping trans to possibly the pump.
I have tried all the suggestions on the list and haven't come to a solution.
I was wondering if anyone knows if you can check the line pressures on the AOD
and what they were/ are? If not is there somewhere I could get that info?
There is no info like that in my trusty Chilton Manual and I want to do this
before there is any further damage to the trans.

Thanks!!!

Joe
Lost in Jersey
92 F-150 NITE 5.0 AOD K&N DYNOMAX
http://www.ford-trucks.com/pictorial/big/1992_f150_nite.html
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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:01:29 EST
From: FLR150 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - AOD woes

Joe,
I have a friend that has had what sounds like a similar problem with his AOD.
It took a complete valve body update, soft parts rebuild kit, and a new torque
convertor to solve his woes. All the work was done by my friend and all the
parts were after-market upgrades from Art Carr (valve body and soft parts kit)
and Precision Industries (torque convertor). The AOD is commonly called the
stock "slushbox" by most trans. shops as the factory parts seem to wear out
too fast and cant hold the beating most of like to give our trucks. I have an
article that I believe was in Muscle Mustang and Fast Ford mag, that shows a
complete rebuild kit that has all the parts you would need. Precision
Industries is a great after-market company that has done immense R & D work on
solving the chronic AOD problems. If you email me off the list I can tell you
which issue it was in and give you any other info I can garner this weekend
from my friend who did his own rebuild.
Regards,
Wayne Foy
FLR150 aol.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.aol.com/flr150/auto/index.htm
'94 F150 Flareside Supercab
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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:42:31 +1100 (EST)
From: shy anne
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - K & N FILTERS

yep..there's at least one lady hehe
Shy-anne




- ---"Ellsworth, Sam" wrote:
>
> gentlemen,
> and ladies (if there are any)
> sorry about the yelling the other day, but in my job I have to leave
it
> on caps lock. I will try to remember next time. I wanted to put my 2
> cents worth on k & n filters. I put one in my 88 and noticed an
> improvement in performance. not a huge one, but it breathes easier. I
> think I may take off the intake between the hood and box though. I
think
> the flow is being restricted there also.
> I was working on my truck last night changing an "actuator" in the
> steering column and got frustrated and called the dealer to fax me a
> diagram of the column and then called back for instructions on how to
> get that thing out and I got the special tool answer. luckily it is a
> home town place and they parts guy said he would stop by and show me
how
> to do it.
>
> I feel for the guy with the junker truck that he has to sell. I had
one
> of those once. it was a 87 from the four corners area (ut, co, az,
nm).
> I put 3,000 into payments for one year, and 3,000 into parts and
labor.
> fan clutches, starters, front end jobs, input shafts on trans,
throwout
> bearings, u-joints, etc. after on year I got rid of it. it was burying
> me. I finally had to spend the money on fixing it that I was going to
> use for the payment. I was trying to live on my own in an apt. and it
> was all I could do to keep it anyway. so all I have to say is you
gotta
> do what you gotta do pal.
>
> I appreciate the responses to joining the group. I do have another
> question for you gurus out there. anybody had good luck with any
> particular brand of headers for a 302 for an 88 4x4?
> I am looking and want to know a concensus.
> thanks,
> sam ellsworth
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
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>

==
- -"God forbid I shall go to any heaven where there are no horses."



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:53:45 -0600
From: "BigRed"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Problems with heater control

>I have a 84 F150 with a slight problem.
>No matter where the heater control is set (Defrost, Heat, Vent), it
blowsall the air out of the AC vents.I know there are some vacuum motors
that control where the air is sent, but I don't know which one('s) to look
at.
I have this same problem with my 87 right now. I did find my problem, but
have not seen what I have to do to fix it yet. I followed the cable down to
a thing under the dash. I can see the cable move when I move the lever, but
the knob thingy doesn't move. I can move it by hand though. I also noticed
that I have all of the options except the mix, for some reason that one
doesn't click into place. I don't know if yours is in the same place as
mine, but it is just to the right of the ash tray under the dash. Anyone got
any ideas for us?

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:59:02 +1100 (EST)
From: shy anne
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - What is Tire siping ??

they cut thin slices in your tires for better traction on wet roads.
there are more channels for the water to go through..instead of
getting between the tire and the road. You can't tell that your tires
have been siped by looking unless you look really close. Discount
Tire siped my tires and I've noticed that I seem to have better
traction on wet roads. This is how I understand siping anyway.
Shy




- ---Lamar Zabielski wrote:
>
> What is siping? It sounds like making grooves for tire chains to fit
in. How
> old can a tire be? Does it work for cable?
>
> PS No way am I gonna change wheels to get my chains on.
>
> thanks,
>
> At 04:31 PM 12/9/98 -0700, 80-96-list ford-trucks.com wrote:
> >Discount tire here in Colorado wanted to sipe my tires last July.
> >
> >> I'm curious
> >> what tire chain is offering the siping?
> >>
> >> Tom in Phoenix
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> >
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
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>

==
- -"God forbid I shall go to any heaven where there are no horses."



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:59:47 -0600
From: "BigRed"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Starting Problem

I wouldn't be surprised if it was the starter also. I went through 3 Ford
remanufactured ones in less than 2 months. Then finally the fourth (the last
one they told me they would give me under warranty) worked great and has
been for the past 1 1 years.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Smeins, Larry
To: 'cvandor hotmail.com'
Cc: 'FordTrucks'
Date: Thursday, December 10, 1998 10:59 AM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Starting Problem


>I had a similar problem with my son's F-150. We replaced the starter with
>the best rebuilt NAPA had to offer. It failed in less than a week.
>Replaced it again, under warranty, and no problems since. If your starter
>is like the V8s I've worked on changing the starter is a PITA. Love that
>300 6, fifteen minutes to replace the starter.
>
>Larry
>
>>Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 16:19:43 PST
>>From: "Casey Vandor" >
>>Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Starting Problem
>
> >Ok I went ahead and bought a new battery also. Same scenario, it will
>>crank good for about 2 seconds and peter off into nothing. We tried
>>jumping it again, and even with good heavy jumper cables I cannot get it
>>to crank for more than one to two seconds. Everything from the battery
>>to the starter (including ignt switch) has been replaced. Is there
>>something I am overlooking? (Heres what has been replaced: Battery,all
>>cables, solenoid, volt regulator, starter (rebuilt though), ignition
>>switch.
>
>>Thanks,
>>Casey
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:19:55 -0600
From: "BigRed"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Headers

>>anybody had good luck with any
>>particular brand of headers for a 302 for an 88 4x4?
>>I am looking and want to know a concensus.
>>thanks,
>>Sam Ellsworth


I bought a set of pace setter's because they were cheap and I needed
something to replace my cracked manifolds. I'll tell you, the lovely
phrase-You get what you pay for-is very true. The nice thing about them is
that the bolted right up to the stock exhaust. The bad thing is that when I
got them they were all nice and painted up so I could not see the problem I
was about to have. Turns out that they welded the top and bottom of the
pipes to the flange on both sides of the flange, but didn't do the same on
the sides. They only welded the side of the flange that they ground off to
make it flat again. So off they came to get welded. I haven't had them long
enough to say how well they hold up otherwise.

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:17:54 -0800
From: "Matt and Deidre"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Dual Exhaust

Has anyone here ran a true dual system and dumped it under the bed? I
was considering this idea until I noticed the fuel tank in the way. I
figured the way you would have to route the exhaust; you might as well run a
set of headers into a performance Y, then to the cat onto the muffler. I
was planning on the 2 chambered Flowmaster. Anyone here used flowmaster?
Any gains?

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:22:18 -0900
From: "L WALTERS"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re:Re:Re: starting problems

Howdy folks - D Baken answered:

something I am overlooking? (Heres what has been replaced: Battery,all
cables, solenoid, volt regulator, starter (rebuilt though), ignition
switch. >>
Casey,
I have had the starter bad from the rebuilder and had to go with new on my
78
F350 with 460 cid. I always thought it was because of the BIG engine but I
went through exactly what you are there. I would try a new starter if I were
you
- -
Casey, if you plan on keepin this truck and not buy the mopar talk to parts
dept. at Ford
dealer about a "DELCO" style starter, this has the solenoid -piggy back- on
it. there is also a wiring kit that can purchased with it but you realy
don't need it. IF they have one for your application you would never have
any more starter problems (knock on wood) We switched our fleet of 4.9L and
big blocks to this Motorcraft starter and away from that worthless "movable
pole shoe" starter. It will cost a little more but if I remember right you
are in a long cold climate until april.
Just trying to help, get me off list if you want to, I think I know someone
in your area that could help.
- -
If anyone else is interested, (i'm not a salesman, just sharing info) we
have found a "Gear-reduced" starter made by Nippon-Denso that has an
interchangable nose cone. This bad boy is bullet-proof!
Found this thing from a local re-build shop and located nose cone from Ford
dealer. truly amazing because most of the vehicles get about 40K per year on
them as delivery vans.
- -
(hope I didn't waste your time)
Bart-AK


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:27:22 -0800
From: "LanceS"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - AOD woes

Joe- Take a test run through the all data sight. Its free for 2 months
right now
and you can go through all the service bulletins as well as parts break
downs and
diagnosis procedures. The site can be found at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.alldatapro.com
- -------this same info goes for anyone else that has problems. I dont work
for them
nor do I endorse but after having problems with my Bronco lately its been a
money
saver lately.
Lance
87 Bronco 5.0 AOD
- -----Original Message-----
From: ACMERCG aol.com
To: 80-96-list ....


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