80-96-list-digest Tuesday, November 17 1998 Volume 02 : Number 390



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - Engine "Ping"
FTE 80-96 - spray-on bedliners
Re: FTE 80-96 - Engine "Ping"
FTE 80-96 - F250 Rear End
Re: FTE 80-96 - fuel master and force air
Re: FTE 80-96 - Engine "Ping"
Re: FTE 80-96 - F250 Rear End
FTE 80-96 - Re: FTE 80-96 Diesel leaking back
Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesel leaking back
FTE 80-96 - Under dash leak
Re: FTE 80-96 - Under dash leak
Re: FTE 80-96 - fuel master and force air
FTE 80-96 - Tune-up info request
Re: FTE 80-96 - Under dash leak
Re: FTE 80-96 - anti-sieze and plug removal
Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesels and stop/go traffic...
FTE 80-96 - fan switch
Re: FTE 80-96 - fan switch
Re: FTE 80-96 - Repetitive Clutch Slave Failure
Re: FTE 80-96 - F250 Rear End
Re: FTE 80-96 - Tune-up info request
Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesels and stop/go traffic...
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: 80-96-list-digest;was K&N
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: 80-96-list-digest;was K&N
FTE 80-96 - Re: oil price

=======================================================================

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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 08:15:10 -0400
From: "Bowman, John A"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Engine "Ping"

I have an '83 F100, 302, 3 spd auto with 94K kilometers or 58,000 miles.
It would always ping a bit under load up hill but since the weather has
cooled off ( in the 30's F) it does it alot! Remembering my days as a
Volvo owner in the early 80's, I had to run high octae to keep the
pinging under control. So I tried 89 octane instead of the std 87 octain
I had always used and the ping is vertually gone. I use Shell gasoline
only. Is this the solution?

- --



*************************************
J.A. Bowman,P.Eng.
Project Manager - APTC CPC Project
MT&T
Rm153
3601 Joesph Howe Dr.
Halifax, Nova Scotia
B3L 4H8
PH: (902) 486-3848
FAX: (902) 454-6619
email: jbowman MTT.CA
************************************


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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 07:51:08 -0500
From: "Michael Redden"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - spray-on bedliners

Thanks for the advise, you guys. I'm leaning towards the spray-in.
I'll do some more shopping. There aren't too many places around here...
The only thing I am still wondering about is: what if it gets damaged?
Can it be fixed? Maybe I should wait until I drive out west the next time
to have it done. Then I'd have more choices.

Mike
redden enter.net
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 07:46:55 -0500
From: "Michael Redden"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Engine "Ping"

John:
I've usually used 89 in my 302's as they ping under load with 87.
Maybe it's just the gas I get, but it seems to be the case!
Mike
redden enter.net

> I have an '83 F100, 302, 3 spd auto with 94K kilometers or 58,000 miles.
> It would always ping a bit under load up hill but since the weather has
> cooled off ( in the 30's F) it does it alot! Remembering my days as a
> Volvo owner in the early 80's, I had to run high octae to keep the
> pinging under control. So I tried 89 octane instead of the std 87 octain
> I had always used and the ping is vertually gone. I use Shell gasoline
> only. Is this the solution?
> J.A. Bowman,P.Eng.

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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 06:57:51 -0600
From: Bill Sample
Subject: FTE 80-96 - F250 Rear End

Just bought a 86 F250 with a single wheel drive rear end and was
wondering if I could replace the third member with a limited slip or if
I had to do the entire axle assembly... anyone done this before?
Looking for better traction out of slippery boat ramps... thanks for any
help on this isssue......

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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 08:28:58 -0500
From: John Wickerham
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - fuel master and force air

>has anyone ever used the FuelMaster magnetic fuel saver? did it help
>any?
>and has anyone ever used the "Force" Air intake performance system?
>I saw these 2 things in jcwhitney catalog and thought about getting
>them. I wanted to get opinions first.
>thanks in advance
>Shy

I'm sure others will have their opinions, but if you
want to try a magnetic type of device on your fuel
(not saying it will necessarily do anything), but go
to radio shack and buy two 2"x1"x1/2" magnets for about
a dollar and strap them onto your gas line.

You may want to try diffent orientations such as both
on one side, or opposing, but most of the pattent info
I've read says that the south pole is more helpful and
you should only put the magnet on one side.

I'm told that if you want to find the south pole of a
magnet (if it's not labeled), that you tie it to a
string and let it swivel until it finds the north-
south poles. The true magnetic south pole is the one
facing south - I think.

I tried "The Force" on my '95 Astro. It did seem to
eleviate the need for premium fuel and MAY have had
a slight impact on fuel economy, but nothing very
measurable. If you can save money by not having to
buy premium, then it may be worth the money.

If it helps on these types of items, I try to make
sure they have a satisfaction guarantee. If it does
not work then, at least you can get your money back.

John


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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:35:20 EST
From: HrdKnkr aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Engine "Ping"

either that or retard your timing a coiuple degrees and that should take care
of it.
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:37:39 EST
From: HrdKnkr aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - F250 Rear End

Absolutely!! I would recommend a third member unit from Auburn Gear. They
will have a direct replacement for your rear for around $400. Bullet proof
too!! You wont have to worry about breaking it. Try Summit Racing or even
better,
JEGS High Performance 800-345-4545. Good Luck!!!
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:02:52 -0600
From: "tsmith"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: FTE 80-96 Diesel leaking back

The best way to find problem is to put a clear line (hose) in
between the lift pump (on side of engine) and the filter
bracket. Get truck primed and running check for bubbles in clear
line. If there is a steady stream of bubbles, the problem is
between there and tank. Most likely the lift pump. If no bubbles
with engine running, shut off engine and check for bubbles. Watch
direction bubbles come from, that will be the side your problem
is on. There is a check valve on later model engines. It is in
the fitting on filter bracket where return line connects from #1
injecter. If you see any visible fuel leaks on return lines or
injecter pump that is most likely the problem.I hope this help
you, good luck.

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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 07:41:16 -0800
From: Robert Whitley
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesel leaking back

Can somebody please send me a brief summary of this topic? My mail server
truncated the digest with all of the messages on this topic except for the
last one.

I've got a 94 7.3 which sometimes reeks of diesel, and I find diesel
dripping from around the front of the transmission. I've checked the return
lines between the injectors and the line passing back to the tank. The top
of the engine looks dry, also. Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't
figure out where the leak is coming from.

Thanks. Rob
=============
rwhitley kaitain.sp.trw.com

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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:41:24 -0600
From: "Wes_Davenport"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Under dash leak

I have a 1991 F-150, 4 wheel drive, 351 v-8 truck. It has developed an
intermittent leak under the center right side of the dash. Substance is
oily and fairly thick. Dealer service folks could not identify the leak for
certain, but said it might be the heater gasket combined with anti-freeze.
Fix for $400. and might not be the problem. I said no. Any ideas?



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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:52:43 -0500
From: "Michael J. Pasznik, Jr."
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Under dash leak

Wes,

I had a similar problem on my '84 Bronco. It turned out to be the
heater core, which is pretty easy to replace. One way to find out if that's
what it is: Pay attention to exactly when the leak occurs. If it's on hard
acceleration when the engine if warm (since that's when the fluid would be
under the most pressure), I'd say you found your problem.

- -Mike

- -----Original Message-----
From: Wes_Davenport
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, November 16, 1998 11:48 AM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Under dash leak


I have a 1991 F-150, 4 wheel drive, 351 v-8 truck. It has developed an
intermittent leak under the center right side of the dash. Substance is
oily and fairly thick. Dealer service folks could not identify the leak for
certain, but said it might be the heater gasket combined with anti-freeze.
Fix for $400. and might not be the problem. I said no. Any ideas?



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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:38:01 -0700
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - fuel master and force air

>From: shy anne
>Subject: FTE 80-96 - fuel master and force air
>
>has anyone ever used the FuelMaster magnetic
>fuel saver? did it help any?

Yo Shy:

The premise of this device (if I read the JCW ad copy correctly) is that it
helps "break up" clumped fuel molecules as the fuel flows past the
magnet(s) in the fuel line on its way to the engine. This is simply
ridiculous! This would be plausible only if you have no understanding of
physics or chemistry (which most people don't) and a large belief in magic
(which most people do).

Unfortunately, the only way this device could improve your truck's
performance is by reducing the weight of your wallet.

Maybe I'm too "old school", but I believe that the best way to improve your
truck's performance is to learn all you can about how it works. You can
read books about your truck (e.g., service manuals like Haynes, Chiltons,
and the Ford service manuals) and you can read books about the details of
your truck's specific engine. Once you have some knowledge and
understanding about your vehicle and its engine, you can begin to make some
intelligent decisions about the performance potential of the various
devices you see advertised and that you will hear about from well-meaning
but gullible (or superstitious) people.

You said you wanted some opinions, so those are mine.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)

P.S. I haven't seen the "Force" thingy, but if it's based on the same
premise as the "Tornado" device (supposed to create turbulence in the air
intake tract), it would have a neutral effect at best. The reality is that
any object that induces a disturbance in the airflow also increases the
friction in the engine's air intake, and it will reduce the efficiency of
the engine.


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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:42:48 -0700
From: "Gerald L. Hinkle Jr. CPA"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Tune-up info request

Hello list people! I have returned from the BAJA 1000! What a race! All
I know for sure at this point is that Johnny Cambell was the overall winner
taking just over 18 hours and 58 minutes to traverse the approx 1,100 mile
course. Cambell was riding a Honda 250 dirt bike. Ivan Stewart in his
single (center) seat Toyota sporting a V8 motor won the coveted trophy
truck division with a time of 19 hours and 8 minutes. Complete results
will be available soon on the SCORE web site. Now I need to spend a little
time on my 1994 F-350 Crew Cab 4x4, 351 monobeam. I plan on a complete
tune up and fluid change session. Since I have now turned 35,000 miles
plus I plan on changing the spark plugs. My question is this, should I use
"anti-sieze" around the spark plug threads when installing the new ones? I
was not aware of this procedure when maintaining a T*oyota I had (94) and
was sorry, since some of the threads came off with the plugs on the next
change. Another question, is there a trick to the removal of the spark
plug boots? These things are REAL hard to remove. A friend says to pull
up on the boot until it "clicks" then pull off. I am afraid to "pull up"
and break off the plug!
Jerry Hinkle Jr. CPA
"RULEMAKER" 94 F-350 Crew Cab 4x4
"LTS-ROK" 80 JEEP CJ-5
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:56:50 -0500
From: "Michael Redden"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Under dash leak

Sounds like the heater core. Not a big job. Just do it soon or the
intermittent leak will not be intermittent !

Mike
redden enter.net


> I have a 1991 F-150, 4 wheel drive, 351 v-8 truck. It has developed an
> intermittent leak under the center right side of the dash. Substance is
> oily and fairly thick. Dealer service folks could not identify the leak
for
> certain, but said it might be the heater gasket combined with
anti-freeze.
> Fix for $400. and might not be the problem. I said no. Any ideas?

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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:06:05 -0500
From: "Michael Redden"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - anti-sieze and plug removal

I always use the anti-sieze lube when installing new plugs.
Permatex makes it. That way they'll be easy to remove next time,
and they won't "become one" with the heads.
If you don't do alot of sideways twisting you won't break off the plugs.
If you do, you only broke the insulator making it even easier to get your
plug wrench on the stump!
Mike
redden enter.net

> My question is this, should I use
> "anti-sieze" around the spark plug threads when installing the new ones?
I
> was not aware of this procedure when maintaining a T*oyota I had (94) and
> was sorry, since some of the threads came off with the plugs on the next
> change. Another question, is there a trick to the removal of the spark
> plug boots? These things are REAL hard to remove. A friend says to pull
> up on the boot until it "clicks" then pull off. I am afraid to "pull up"
> and break off the plug!
> Jerry Hinkle Jr. CPA

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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:39:41 -0600
From: "Karen Dyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesels and stop/go traffic...

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mike S. in FL
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesels and stop/go traffic...


>Hi Chuck:
>
>No engine likes stop and go traffic, but think about fire engines,
>ambulances and the like. I've never seen one that wasn't a diesel, and
>they do a LOT of stop and go driving - more like jack rabbit driving.
>I've got a diesel F-350 and it seems a lot less trouble in stop and go
>than our gas powered van.
>
>Mike S. in FL
>(remove the 'downto.' for correct email address)
>
>Chuck Bartlett wrote:
>>
>> Hi there!
>>
>> I am currently researching the purchase of a late model F250/350. I was
>> originally going to go with the Diesel powerplant, however I was told
that
>> the engine is not going to like stop and go traffic too much. Rush hour
>> traffic is easily over half of the driving we do, so this is a concern.
>>
>> Should I opt for the gas engine given the type of driving we will be
doing?
>>
Hi, I'm new to the group. I agree to that diesels are alot less trouble in
stop and go traffic. All of our families vehicles are Ford diesels except
for my car. One good thing about the diesels is they can run forever and not
get overheated like cars. Please send comments to me at. KDYER itlnet.net
Thanks. I am doing this email group for a college paper. Thanks again.
Sincerely,
Karen Dyer

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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:56:17 -0900
From: "L WALTERS"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - fan switch

Hey folks, I am going to install and elec. fan in my 81 f150 4x4 5.0L and
the switch has me wondering. I know the Japanese put the switch in the
bottom of radiator. this makes sense, when coolant entering the engine gets
too hot, switch trips fan. I have also seen the switch in thermostat housing
( after thermostat). which also makes sense. If anyone has an electric fan
could you mail me and let me know where yours is? thanx for help. Bart in
AK.

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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:45:27 -0500
From: Andre Roy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - fan switch

L WALTERS wrote:
>
> Hey folks, I am going to install and elec. fan in my 81 f150 4x4 5.0L and
> the switch has me wondering. ......
> ........... If anyone has an electric fan
> could you mail me and let me know where yours is? thanx for help. Bart in
>
On my non-Ford domestic car, there is a temperature sensor at the
thermostat that tells the computer how hot the engine is. The computer
in turn, turns the fan on and off. Kind of a bit much for an aftermarket
install, though.
- --
Andre
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:25:33 EST
From: GLMPILOT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Repetitive Clutch Slave Failure

just changed mine at 90000 on 95 f 150 I 6 5 speed still isn't the same
d jackson,so.cal dez
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:42:12 -0800
From: Randy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - F250 Rear End

Bill (related to Candy, LOL)
I'm not sure which axle you have (Ford 9", Dana 60 or Ford 10.25"),
but only the Ford 9" had a drop-out third member. All of them,
though, can have posis installed. You have a few options there too,
like an Air Locker (open when off, full-locker when activated [by
air]). Some are also designed to be easily installed by a backyard
mechanic, although that does not mean they are inferior. Lock-Right
comes to mind. I have a few different tech articles on comparos and
installs. If you'd like more info, we can continue this off-list (it
could get quite lengthy) so e-mail me directly.

Later,
Brew

Bill Sample wrote:
>
> Just bought a 86 F250 with a single wheel drive rear end and was
> wondering if I could replace the third member with a limited slip or if
> I had to do the entire axle assembly... anyone done this before?
> Looking for better traction out of slippery boat ramps... thanks for any
> help on this isssue......
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:49:28 -0800
From: Randy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Tune-up info request

Gerry,
If you are genuinely concerned about damage when pulling the boot off,
I have seen a tool designed to pull off the boot. It just reaches
down under the boot and had a lip to pull on it. Also, if you use the
dielectric grease that comes w/the wire set (maybe you can be some
when you get the plugs - the grease that is) that helps w/the
stickiness, but only to a point, that's not its purpose.

Later,
Brew

Gerald L. Hinkle Jr. CPA wrote:
>
> Hello list people! I have returned from the BAJA 1000! What a race! All
> I know for sure at this point is that Johnny Cambell was the overall winner
> taking just over 18 hours and 58 minutes to traverse the approx 1,100 mile
> course. Cambell was riding a Honda 250 dirt bike. Ivan Stewart in his
> single (center) seat Toyota sporting a V8 motor won the coveted trophy
> truck division with a time of 19 hours and 8 minutes. Complete results
> will be available soon on the SCORE web site. Now I need to spend a little
> time on my 1994 F-350 Crew Cab 4x4, 351 monobeam. I plan on a complete
> tune up and fluid change session. Since I have now turned 35,000 miles
> plus I plan on changing the spark plugs. My question is this, should I use
> "anti-sieze" around the spark plug threads when installing the new ones? I
> was not aware of this procedure when maintaining a T*oyota I had (94) and
> was sorry, since some of the threads came off with the plugs on the next
> change. Another question, is there a trick to the removal of the spark
> plug boots? These things are REAL hard to remove. A friend says to pull
> up on the boot until it "clicks" then pull off. I am afraid to "pull up"
> and break off the plug!
> Jerry Hinkle Jr. CPA
> "RULEMAKER" 94 F-350 Crew Cab 4x4
> "LTS-ROK" 80 JEEP CJ-5
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:51:39 -0800
From: Randy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Diesels and stop/go traffic...

A college paper on e-mail groups? I have to know what class that is
for...lol

Later
Brew

Karen Dyer wrote:
>

- -----snip-----

> >>
> Hi, I'm new to the group. I agree to that diesels are alot less trouble in
> stop and go traffic. All of our families vehicles are Ford diesels except
> for my car. One good thing about the diesels is they can run forever and not
> get overheated like cars. Please send comments to me at. KDYER itlnet.net
> Thanks. I am doing this email group for a college paper. Thanks again.
> Sincerely,
> Karen Dyer
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:29:14 -0500
From: "msalvetti"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: 80-96-list-digest;was K&N

rokkinhorse webtv.net wrote:
>
> skibarefut aol.com wrote:(not ver batum) another good way to improve
> mileage and performance is the use of synthetic oil,etc. Craig,who you
> tyrin to BS here? Synthetic lubes are the best there is IMHO,but how the
> heck do they improve performance??I have a 94 Bronco that has had
> synthetic in the crankcase since it was new.The heat reisitive
> properties are excellent as are the detergent and lubrication
> properties,but it does NOT improve performance.Maybe the oil you are
> trying to sell here has some magical characteristics that no other
> commercially available "off-the-shelf" synthetic product can lay claim
> to? Suggestion: cut the spam,tell the truth and keep the freakin spam
> off the list..... We have seen this before on this list,and it is pretty
> transparent.

Sorry folks, but I think those of you that disagree with Randy
(rokkinhorse) are cutting skibarefut a bit too much slack. His post was
suggesting way more than minor gas mileage improvements, especially as it
was prompted by a K&N question.

He also wrote:

>The idle air control valve will cause this problem. Email me at
>skibarefut aol.com and I will tell you how to clean it and of a product
to
>keep it clean.

I don't want to wade through these kinds posts in my Digest. Post to the
list, build some credibility, and cut out the obvious marketing hype.
Sounds like a 3AM infommercial.

Mark
1986 F150
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:56:28 -0000
From: "Radoje Spasojevic"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: 80-96-list-digest;was K&N

Hear, hear!! I agree with Randy that there is no significant performance
gain from using synthetics aside from the added protection they give.
As far as cleaning the idle air bypass valve, you can't use just any cleaner
on them. I would personally get my cleaner from Ford (of find a Ford
approved cleaner) than use some unknown AMWAY stuff.

Rade
- -----Original Message-----
From: msalvetti
To: Ford Trucks 80-96
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 5:30 AM
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: 80-96-list-digest;was K&N


>
>rokkinhorse webtv.net wrote:
>>
>> skibarefut aol.com wrote:(not ver batum) another good way to improve
>> mileage and performance is the use of synthetic oil,etc. Craig,who you
>> tyrin to BS here? Synthetic lubes are the best there is IMHO,but how the
>> heck do they improve performance??I have a 94 Bronco that has had
>> synthetic in the crankcase since it was new.The heat reisitive
>> properties are excellent as are the detergent and lubrication
>> properties,but it does NOT improve performance.Maybe the oil you are
>> trying to sell here has some magical characteristics that no other
>> commercially available "off-the-shelf" synthetic product can lay claim
>> to? Suggestion: cut the spam,tell the truth and keep the freakin spam
>> off the list..... We have seen this before on this list,and it is pretty
>> transparent.
>
>Sorry folks, but I think those of you that disagree with Randy
>(rokkinhorse) are cutting skibarefut a bit too much slack. His post was
>suggesting way more than minor gas mileage improvements, especially as it
>was prompted by a K&N question.
>
>He also wrote:
>
> >The idle air control valve will cause this problem. Email me at
>>skibarefut aol.com and I will tell you how to clean it and of a product
>to
>>keep it clean.
>
>I don't want to wade through these kinds posts in my Digest. Post to the
>list, build some credibility, and cut out the obvious marketing hype.
>Sounds like a 3AM infommercial.
>
>Mark
>1986 F150
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:58:28 -0700 (MST)
From: zeb utalk.org (Lamar Zabielski)
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: oil price

Chris, Thanks for the info.

I did an oil change today, 10 quarts of Rotella and Motorcraft filter,
adding a quart and half of 'Liquid Ring" 5000 mile interval up to 15k - 20k
miles between changes. That takes me 6-18 months out for your product. Put
me on your mail list.

I deliver pizza and smoke is most detectable at night, thru the rear view
mirror w/ a car's light behind. I couldn't see smoke out the pipe in
daylight. Now I don't see smoke in the mirror at night! It is running as
much improved as adding the KN filter. Smoother yet again!

Lamar

At 06:48 PM 11/16/98 EST, Skibarefut aol.com wrote:
>
> Lamar,
>
> Three gallons of 15w-40 is a full case, twelve one qt bottles. A case is
>$55.20. Semi-synthetic is $47.40. Shipping will add $9. I do not know what
>state you are in but the applicable tax will be collected when ordered.....


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