80-96-list-digest Saturday, November 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 382



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - Re: Centrifugal advance question 1980 300 cid I-6
Re: FTE 80-96 - 460 in an F-150?
Re: FTE 80-96 - Dead Truck..Fixed for now
FTE 80-96 - Hesitation off the line
FTE 80-96 - Re: 460 in an F-150?
FTE 80-96 - 4WD Van Conversions
FTE 80-96 - 84 Rnager misfiring and power loss
Re: FTE 80-96 - 84 Rnager misfiring and power loss
FTE 80-96 - 302 V8 to 300 I6 swap
FTE 80-96 - RE:Tornado Inserts
FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers
FTE 80-96 - Choke?
Re: FTE 80-96 - 302 V8 to 300 I6 swap
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers
FTE 80-96 - Re: Cables etc.
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers
Re: FTE 80-96 - '85 F150 Manual Infor
Re: FTE 80-96 - re: replacement engines
FTE 80-96 - FW:
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers

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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:35:01 -0600
From: "David Anderson (EUS)"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Centrifugal advance question 1980 300 cid I-6

On that centrifugal advance question, first open the distributor and look
for the advance weights in the bottom. Some don't even have centrifugal
advance. Next if it's frozen, you'll have to pull the distributor and free
up/lube the mechanism. After that it will probably work and give the
correct amount of advance since there's not much else to go wrong. If you
really want to check it against specs just go to library and look in those
big Chiltons or Motors binders. There is bound to be something close.
David Anderson
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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:30:51 EST
From: HrdKnkr aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 460 in an F-150?

Jim,,
just a little secret for you.....no matter where you live there are always
ways to get around a totally legal vehicle inspection. A $20 here or there
might just get the job done for you.

As for motor build up....try putting DART heads on the motor with a little
cam, a good carb and intake (edelbrock makes good equip.) and you will wake
your motor up big time. if you're going to the total rebuild, I would
recommend bumping the comression up a bit to to 9.5 or 10.0 :1. This will
provide quicker throttle response and run better at higher rpm's while running
on 93 pump gas.

Let me know if you would like any more suggestions.

hrdknkr aol.com
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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:04:24 -0700
From: "Smeins, Larry"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Dead Truck..Fixed for now

This reminds me of a problem I've seen a couple times on imported cars. The
alternator has a small pulley and when the belt wears it bottoms out in the
pulley. V-belts ride on the sides not the bottom. It looks good and spins
the alternator ok when unloaded but when loaded the belt slips. The result
is a dead or poorly charged battery. Check your belt to make sure it is the
correct width and not worn. Of course if your engine has a serpentine belt
this problem doesn't exist.

Larry

On Wed, 4 Nov 1998, Casey Vandor wrote:
> New solenoid, new cables (pos to solenoid, neg to ground and
starter
> cable) and a new voltage regulator. Now the truck will start and
runs
> good. I am not sure whether the cables or the regulator were the
> problem, but I am guessing hte regulator was it.
>
> Thanks to everyone for all the help.
> Hope it will be a while it breaks again.
> Casey
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
>
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>

I had a similair problem with me uhm *chevy*. I done everything that you
have mentioenned. New cables, "Everything:, and to no success. Finally I
took the truck to and expert and all that he did was put a new altenater
brace on the truck. Don't ask. (Thats a Chevy for ya.) He said that that the
altenater wasn't be charged enough, and when ever I used my lihts or
anything, it drianed the battery itself. So.. maybe you can try getting a
new altenater brace and asure that the altnater is charging proprelly.
This may help , may not. Best of luck.

Michael
93 Ford XLT 302 5.0 (5.0 HO hopefully soon)

Michael D. Whities
bigmike netdoor.com
bigmike pager.netdoor.com
mwhities netdoor.com
mwhities pager.netdoor.com

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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:26:08 -0700
From: "Glenn Koepnick"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Hesitation off the line

Hi,

Recently, with the cooler weather, when I first start going or just shift
gears, if I give a little too much gas the engine bogs down and sputters a
little. If I let up on the pedal, and let the carburator catch up to the
rest of the truck, and then press slowly it seems to keep up fine with the
fuel intake.

In the hot weather, it never does this.
The truck is a 1990 F250 4X4 w/ a 460 with EFI.

Another question: When I went to check the timing, the Haynes manual said
to remove the SPOUT (Spark Output) signal connector or you won't get the
correct reading. Well if my truck has one I sure can't find it. Anybody know
what and where this thing is?

Thanks.

Glenn Koepnick
Tucson, AZ

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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:32:27 EST
From: BFunk33 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: 460 in an F-150?

> From: troyw mfi.net (Troy Williams)
>Subject: Re: Subject: FTE 80-96 - 460 in an F-150?

>On 3 Nov 98, at 21:04, kroger ucla.edu wrote:

> >Thanks. I'm a bit amazed that I would not notice a difference off the line
> >between my 185 hp 302, and a 240 hp 460. Where would I notice a
> >difference? It is exactly off the line performance I want to improve; on
> >the highway the 5.0 is fine, but this lady beat me off the line bad in an
> >Isuzu Trooper the other day, and I can't get over it (heh).
>
> This broad in a little Cavalier whupped on my F-150 the other day.
>I'ive got a 302. I figured it would have more horsepower than it
>does. Ah well I bet she had that thing wide open when I was barely
>touching the gas too. >>


You guys are looking at the wrong figures.
What determines accelleration off the line is torque, not horsepower.
Add to this the rear end ratio, of course.
All other things being equal, though, replacing a 302 with a 460 should indeed
get noticed off the line.

Bill
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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 11:58:37 -0400
From: Sbest
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 4WD Van Conversions

Sorry guys, I have been away from the list and not keeping track.
I notice a bunch of back postings about 4wd van conversions.

I have a website and there is a newslist dedicated to just
that topic. I would enjoy talking or listening to anything on
the subject.



Steve Best, Nova Scotia, sbest glinx.com
4 wheel drive van page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.glinx.com/users/sbest
Tire chains, camping gear, tools,82 Bronco and some shooting stuff too.

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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:33:48 -0700
From: "Russ Cominsky"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 84 Rnager misfiring and power loss

Thanks to all who helped me with the sending unit problem. I have another question.

At highway speeds, my V-6 misfires and I lose power to the point that I have to pull over. It is a 4 speed with overdrive.

It didnt do this when I first bought it about 1 1/2 months ago. I bought it as a work truck and cant take it to work.

Thanks Again,

Russ


Don't forget to sign up for FREE e-mail on
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.medmail.com - The E-mail
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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 12:14:31 -0600
From: "Rick Wojciechowski"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 84 Rnager misfiring and power loss

Russ Cominsky wrote:

> Thanks to all who helped me with the sending unit problem. I have another question.
> At highway speeds, my V-6 misfires and I lose power to the point that I have to pull over. It is a 4 speed with overdrive.
> It didnt do this when I first bought it about 1 1/2 months ago. I bought it as a work truck and cant take it to work.

Russ,
Pull off and recheck all your sparkplug connections and
coil connection. Also check all the vacuum connections.
This would be the first two places I would look. Also,
with the truck running pull off each individual wire and
see if each one makes a difference. If you pull one off and
it doesn't change the idle and run speed then check the spark
plug and change that wire. You can also check the plug wires
by waiting until it gets a little dark and pull the wire off the
sparkplug and hold it for a second on the block and see if you
get a spark. Watch out though, because you can get a little shock
if you don't isolate yourself from the wire. My $0.02

- --
Thanks,
Rick Wojo
'83 Fsize BRONCO,Stock I-6,"The BROWN BULL",33x12.5x15-Mud Terrains
'92 Mstng 5.0L
'95 eclipse-Wife's(For Sale)


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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:25:08 -0500
From: John Wickerham
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 302 V8 to 300 I6 swap

Anybody know what I'd have to go through to swap
out a 302 V8 for an Inline 300 6 cylinder in my
F150. I realize that this is a downgrade in power/
performance, but the 302 has some serious problems
and I can get the Inline 6 cheap.

Is engine mounting different? What else would be
different? I may be able to get the whole engine/
chassis - just no body.

Thanks,
John

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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:21:43 -0800
From: "Posluszny, Walt (POSL)"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE:Tornado Inserts

[snip]
From: "Norman Maranda"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - TORNADO AIR INTAKE INSERTS

Hi all,
I was wondering if any of you had any experience with those TORNADO
AIR
INTAKE INSERTS??? They(www.tornadoair.com) claim that you can get an
increase
in gas mileage of 7-24 percent!!! What do you all think truth or tale????
Thanks in advance NOM

Norm, I know three people (myself one of them) that have tried these things.
1 vehicle has a 2bbl carb, and the other two have central fuel injection(one
being a car the other a truck). The general concensus for all three is ...
we couldn't tell any difference at all, in power, mileage or anything else
on the three vehicles. If there are any improvements, they are so small we
couldn't see or feel them. Where they get these testimonies of people
getting an extra 'few' MPG I have no idea. Walt
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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:54:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jeffrey D. Vlahos"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers

I own a 1995 Ford F150, 4wd, w/ 351 engine. I live in Northern Michigan,
where the winters are long and cold. I was thinking of putting headers on
my truck with dual exhaust. Someone told me that the headers would reduce
the engine temperature too much and that the cold weather would be hard on
my engine. Is there any validity to this statement, I don't quite see the
logic. I am hoping anyone can help me with this problem. I am also
looking for advice on header brand names and their quality. I was looking
at Hedman and Edelbrock. The Edelbrock is twice as much, but am I going
to get twice as much performance enhancement with them? Any help or
advice on this problem would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks-


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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:02:09 -0500
From: "Michael J. Pasznik, Jr."
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers

Jeff,

I admittedly know nothing about headers or high-flow exhausts, but that
won't stop me from voicing my opinion! I agree with you about not
understanding the logic of the engine running cooler just because of the
exhaust system, but in the case that it did, you could just throw in a
higher temperature thermostat.
Anybody care to chime in with some actual technical help?

- -Mike

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey D. Vlahos

I own a 1995 Ford F150, 4wd, w/ 351 engine. I live in Northern Michigan,
where the winters are long and cold. I was thinking of putting headers on
my truck with dual exhaust. Someone told me that the headers would reduce
the engine temperature too much and that the cold weather would be hard on
my engine. Is there any validity to this statement, I don't quite see the
logic. I am hoping anyone can help me with this problem. I am also
looking for advice on header brand names and their quality. I was looking
at Hedman and Edelbrock. The Edelbrock is twice as much, but am I going
to get twice as much performance enhancement with them? Any help or
advice on this problem would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks-



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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:27:29 -0500
From: "Matt Fitzsimmons"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey D. Vlahos
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 5:00 PM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers


>
>
>I own a 1995 Ford F150, 4wd, w/ 351 engine. I live in Northern Michigan,
>where the winters are long and cold. I was thinking of putting headers on
>my truck with dual exhaust. Someone told me that the headers would reduce
>the engine temperature too much and that the cold weather would be hard on
>my engine. Is there any validity to this statement,

I have MAC equal length shorty headers in my '95 F150SC 4X4 with a 302. I
haven't noticed any problems with heat in the engine, it heats up just as
quick as it always did. I use a block heater most of the time during the
winter, but even on cold snowmobile weekends up near North Bay there is no
problem.

BTW I had to "adjust" the drivers side collecterabout a 1/2" (with a hammer)
to clear the engine mount. I think the same header is used on the 351, but
I suspect it would clear on that engine.

Matt

>
>
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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:34:58 -0500
From: troyw mfi.net (Troy Williams)
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Choke?

I have had a problem with my truck for the last couple days after
changing the intake manifold gaskets, and then the valve cover
gaskets. My truck has been a little bit of a pain to try and start up,
and then it's been even more of a bear to keep running (especially
since this cold snap that we've had down here in Florida).

Anyway, I noticed the engine didn't 'fast idle' this morning when I
started it up. Normally when it does, I will let it run for a minute,
then kick it down by pressing the gas. Well, it runs like it would
after you tapped the gas, and then it would just die.

Anyway, I had ended up checking the choke spring or coil, can't
remember the exact term for it on the side. It was leaving the
choke wide open.

Anyway, I heard the price for a new coil is something like $60 to
$70. I went ahead and bent the end out on mine for right now, see
if it breaks off again, or to see if I can find a decent price on another
one.

Is it true the price is high on the particular part? Is there some way
that I can go about getting it cheaper somewhere for the same
quality.

I've got an '84 F-150, 302.

Thanks for any information.

You might be a redneck if... All of your relatives would have to
die to wipe out illiteracy. - Jeff Foxworthy


Troy Williams
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mfi.net/~troyw
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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:34:58 -0500
From: troyw mfi.net (Troy Williams)
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 302 V8 to 300 I6 swap

On 6 Nov 98, at 13:25, John Wickerham wrote:

>Anybody know what I'd have to go through to swap
>out a 302 V8 for an Inline 300 6 cylinder in my
>F150. I realize that this is a downgrade in power/
>performance, but the 302 has some serious problems
>and I can get the Inline 6 cheap.

You talking about the 302's overall, or are you talking about your
particular engine? I would just try and fix the problems with the
302 and keep it going that way. I've got an '84 with a 302, thing
runs like a champ.


You might be a redneck if... Your entire family has ever sat around
waiting for a call from the Governor to spare a loved one.
- Jeff Foxworthy


Troy Williams
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mfi.net/~troyw
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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 20:41:08 -0500
From: "S. Spaulding"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers

Jeff,

The headers will not change the engine's warm-up.

Stay away from Hedman. I had a set on my F-150. They never fit the
heads right, and always leaked. I never got any satisfaction from the
company either. I chalked it up to experience, threw the Hedmans out
with the trash, and bought a set of JBA headers. They are light years
ahead of Hedman, and the flanges are much thicker. I have no experience
with the Edelbrocks, but I am sure that they are worth every extra cent.

Steve S.

Jeffrey D. Vlahos wrote:
>
> I own a 1995 Ford F150, 4wd, w/ 351 engine. I live in Northern Michigan,
> where the winters are long and cold. I was thinking of putting headers on
> my truck with dual exhaust. Someone told me that the headers would reduce
> the engine temperature too much and that the cold weather would be hard on
> my engine. Is there any validity to this statement, I don't quite see the
> logic. I am hoping anyone can help me with this problem. I am also
> looking for advice on header brand names and their quality. I was looking
> at Hedman and Edelbrock. The Edelbrock is twice as much, but am I going
> to get twice as much performance enhancement with them? Any help or
> advice on this problem would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks-
>
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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:54:59 -0600
From: "Jram"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cables etc.

One thing I would like to mention about Ford battery cables. Some F-series
and especially Explorers are bad about corroding inside of the terminal end.
You will never find it with a dvom or vom. It only goes open under a load.
The best way to find it is to use a simple test light! Just poke it through
the insulation on the starter side of the cable close to the battery and try
to crank the engine. If the light goes out then all of the voltage is
dropping at the terminal. The end can be replaced but it is best to replace
the whole cable. I see it alot at work and the customers are suprized and
often skeptical when we recommend battery cables.
Also, 351W's rock!!!
jram swbell.net
www.ford-trucks.com/tfts


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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 21:19:53 -0500
From: Andre Roy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers

Matt Fitzsimmons wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey D. Vlahos
> To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 5:00 PM
> Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers
>
> >
> >
> >I own a 1995 Ford F150, 4wd, w/ 351 engine. I live in Northern Michigan,
> >where the winters are long and cold. I was thinking of putting headers on
> >my truck with dual exhaust. Someone told me that the headers would reduce
> >the engine temperature too much and that the cold weather would be hard on
> >my engine. Is there any validity to this statement,
>
> I have MAC equal length shorty headers in my '95 F150SC 4X4 with a 302. I
> haven't noticed any problems with heat in the engine, it heats up just as
> quick as it always did. I use a block heater most of the time during the
> winter, but even on cold snowmobile weekends up near North Bay there is no
> problem.
>
NEAR NORTH BAY?!?!?!

Where are you? I'm _in_ North Bay.

I can't see any reason why headers would do such a thing, either. On an
Otto cycle engine (four stroke spark ignition engine) about 1/3 of the
heat energy in the fuel goes out the exaust, 1/3 goes into the water
jacket and 1/3 goes into torque, the precentages shouldn't vary enough
to cause you to freeze in the cab.

Now, if they were talking about pre-heat for the engine air intake to
prevent icing and such, well, yeah, now there could be an issue there,
but your heater core will still melt your Sorels.

- --
Andre, Somewhere ...
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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:09:22 -0500
From: "Matt Fitzsimmons"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers

>Matt Fitzsimmons wrote:
I use a block heater most of the time during the
>> winter, but even on cold snowmobile weekends up near North Bay there is
no
>> problem.
>>
>NEAR NORTH BAY?!?!?!
>
>Where are you? I'm _in_ North Bay.
>
>
>--
>Andre, Somewhere ...

I'm a little north of Toronto, but we used to drag our machines 'up north' a
few weekends every year. Places like Brit, or North Bay, or over to the
other side of the park, Manooth or Barry's Bay. On a clear and stary night
it can get plenty cold up there. A few times we ran extension cords from
the motel rooms out to block heaters in the trucks. We got up one morning
to -30F (like F or C makes a difference when it's that cold) and the motel
manager had unplugged the trucks. So my setting the alarm for 4:00 AM and
plugging in the extension hadn't done anything. My truck was a little
cranky, but it started and warmed up just fine.

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Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 00:16:48 -0800
From: Randy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - '85 F150 Manual Infor

Ralph,
Didn't you just answer your own question? If you remove the air box
and look above the choke assembly there will be a silver tag with a
bunch of numbers & letters on it. That will give you all the info you
need. Someone on the list will probably know where to cross-reference
the numbers for cfm's or whatever it that's the information you are
looking for.

Later,
Brew

Michael Redden wrote:
>
> Ralph:
>
> I was wondering what my carb is on my 85 F150.
> It's a Holly 4 Barrel that I think is a Model 4180.
> The motor is a 351W.
>
> Mike
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Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 00:20:03 -0800
From: Randy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - re: replacement engines

Bart,
That's easy, "I don't have the vin number, I didn't remove it from the
donor truck, I bought it from some guy who did and I don't know how to
reach him now, he moved". :)

Later,
Brew

L WALTERS wrote:
>
> Craig asked about legality behind replacing engines: Craig I have an '81
> f150 4x4 and I've been looking into getting EFI on it. Here in Anchorage
> there is a city funded station that deals w/IM questions. I called them
> about this and I can but they were not as pleased about it as I was. They
> told me that one can only goup to EFI not from EFI down to carburation. If I
> did, (go to EFI) they wanted the vin of both vehicles, and make sure the
> displacement was the same. G/L Bart
>
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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:33:46 -0600
From: GRAYGHOST
Subject: FTE 80-96 - FW:

- ----------
From: GRAYGHOST[SMTP:stans advancenet.net]
Sent: Friday, November 06, 1998 8:33 PM
To: '80-96-list ford-trucks.com'

Anyone know of any companies that supply hi-po parts for ford 3.8L
232 cu.in ?
I really dont want to swap to a V-8
mainly need to bump up the low range for towing,offroad.
It's a 82' model right now running single exhaust with flowmaster
factory carb&manifold
thanks
stans advancenet.net.

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Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 00:36:58 -0800
From: Randy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Cold Weather and Headers

Jeff,
I think whoever mentioned reducing engine temp too much was full
of...something. I had a set on my old Camaro (Hooker, I think) and it
had no effect in the winter time. Actually headers usually increase
under-hood temperatures, but not necessarily the engines' temp.
Headers that are coated (outside or inside/out, both more expensive)
or taped (cheap, but will usually void any mfrs. warranty) will not
increase under hood temps and actually will help scavange the exhaust
better. If you plan on keeping the vehicle your better off spending a
little more on a good quality set of headers than $60 fits-all types.
Some ppl have probably used Heddman headers and liked 'em, but check
especially the flange size as mentioned. The thicker the better, less
likely to leak and if they make 'em that thick, they know you aren't
going to be able to 'make them fit' so they are usually much more
precise in machining and fit. You could go nuts with all that is
involved with headers. You can get Tri-Y (great for torque), you can
get tuned headers, you can get better scavaging headers, you can get
shorty, blah, blah, blah. Unless you have a race car, tuned are
usually not worth the extra moolah, the best Tri-Y I know to be
available is Doug Thorley (last I checked they made none for my 351W,
of course). I'd say if you got a good price on Edelbrocks go for it.

Later,
Brew

Jeffrey D. Vlahos wrote:
>....


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