80-96-list-digest Monday, October 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 355



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - Re: how much damage?
Re: FTE 80-96 - How much damage did I do?
FTE 80-96 - 93 Ford XLT 302 5.0
FTE 80-96 - RE: won't go into gear
FTE 80-96 - 1985 351W engine misses after idling
Re: FTE 80-96 - 93 Ford XLT 302 5.0
FTE 80-96 - Re:FTE 80-96-Fuel or Ignition problem
Re: FTE 80-96 - 93 Ford XLT 302 5.0
Re: FTE 80-96 - How much damage did I do?
FTE 80-96 - Just no fun to drive
Re: FTE 80-96 - Just no fun to drive
FTE 80-96 - Octane Reply
FTE 80-96 - RE: Octane
Re: FTE 80-96 - Just no fun to drive
FTE 80-96 - Re: 4x4 diffs

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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:03:56 EDT
From: BGar02167 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: how much damage?

In a message dated 10/12/98 3:55:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
owner-80-96-list-digest ford-trucks.com writes:


on dry pavement. The factory differentials are either 'open'
(regular) or limited-slip. Both allow the wheels to turn at different
speeds when necessary, i.e. turning (hence the name differential) >>
Yeah , you drive in 4h and you'll know it. you are kinda right it won't
immediately damage things, but will wear your front end 100 times faster.
You do need to lock the front end no matter the climate and drive in 2h. this
is good for the front seals and bearings.
Brian G
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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 07:45:55 -0500
From: "Rick Wojciechowski"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - How much damage did I do?

kroger ucla.edu wrote:

> Please give it to me straight. I don't need to explain how I feel about this.
>
> I got an 88 F-150 4x4 a week ago, with 78,000 miles on it. When I looked at
> the truck, the owner and I were looking at how the hub lockouts worked, and
> the result is I've been driving around LA three days with one front hub
> locked (2 HI) -- nobody ever took the hub out of lock. I think it was my
> fault.

To many beers, huh ? :-)
Jim,
I'm sure you've already received the right answers, after the weekend
but NO, you did NOT do ANY damage. In worst case you got bad
gas mileage having to turn the extra gears. Where you get into trouble
is when you engage the xfer-case and not lock the hubs in. But thats
a horse of a different color.

- --
Thanks,
Rick Wojo
'83 Fsize BRONCO,Stock I-6,"The BROWN BULL",33x12.5x15-Mud Blasters
'92 Mstng 5.0L
'95 eclipse-Wife's(For Sale)


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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:29:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Michael Whities
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 93 Ford XLT 302 5.0

Whenever I get out of my truck the warning "beep", for leaving your lights
on or a key in the ignition, stays on constantly. I can have everything
turned off and it will continue to "beep". Its good, because, it makes me
check to make sure everything is /off, but I'm scared, that one day, I'm
going to leave something on, like my lights, and being used to the "beep",
I'm going to leave them on and come back to a "dead" truck battery.

Could it be something in the light switch or something? When I close the
door, it turns off, but as soon as I open it back up, it starts "beeping"
again.

Anyone with any suggestion, fixes, or same problem?

Thanks in advance,

Michael

Michael D. Whities
bigmike netdoor.com
bigmike pager.netdoor.com
mwhities netdoor.com
mwhities pager.netdoor.com


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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:15:45 -0600
From: "Smeins, Larry"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: won't go into gear

I don't know what weight lube should be in a T-18 but 75w-90 seems awful
thick. That sounds more like the lube you'd use in the differentials. I'm
sure the new Ford manuals use ATF and in Powerstrokes they use synthetic
ATF. I put Mobil 1 ATF in the Mazda tranny in my son's 95 F-150. Double
check what that tranny really requires.

Larry

>Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 10:51:46 PDT
>From: "Casey Vandor" >
>Subject: FTE 80-96 - won't go into gear

>I hate to drag this up again, but it is only 10 degrees out, and my t-18
will not go into 2 gear (I can upshift into 2, but coming out of 3, it isn't
>possible) until the thing warms up, (5 miles down the road) I have 75w-90
in there now, is there a non-synthetic I could run that is more >viscous?
The napa guys here don't use the synthetic and the 75w-90 is all they sell.
If synthetic is the answer, is there a brand name I can >look for? If 10
degrees makes it sticky, I can't imagine -60....
>What was I thinking when I came here? LOL
>Thanks
>Casey Vandor

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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:26:38 -0400
From: "PmctBaker"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 1985 351W engine misses after idling

1985 351W F-150 4x4 150,00mi. C-6 trans.

a brief history: I've replaced the stock coil with a super coil from JC
Whitney.
replaced the ignition box after twice having
NAPA check it as good. turns out, it checks and
works fine when cool or cold, but not when it
heats up. a lot of frustration.

replaced the stock venturi carb. with a rebuild I
found on the net. a holley 4 bbl. with a new
choke, and dashpot or is it an idle limiter?

I very carefully drilled all the carbon out of
the EGR tube that runs under the carb. to the intake
manifold. it was packed full too. the book tests
ive done on the EGR valve, show its opening
and closing when vacuum is applied. I replaced
the lead or whatever metal gasket on the EGR
valve, and checked it all the way to the PVS
switch. when its running and I press on the dia
phram engine idle is affected. but I dont know if
the PVS
switch is working or not. it sits on top of the
water neck. and has vac. tubes running to the
EGR valve and all over. upon further review there
is more than one of these valves in there.

replaced all the vacuum hoses I could find. and
did as many tests on the various smog stuff
as I could. which wasn't a whole lot.

did a trans. filter change and refilled with the
wrong type of fluid (6qts.). I learned of my mistake
after reading here of the same thing happening to
some of you. I still need to change it soon,
the fluid isn't red anymore.

I running premium fuel, and I need to check the
condition of the plugs soon. last plug change
was 4 mon.ago, at the same time I put the rebuilt
carb. on. and the new NAPA elect. ign box.
my NAPA guy says that Accel and NAPA boxes are one
and the same. when running regular
fuel the engine seems to respond and the pinging
went away. but its been awhile since ive
tried regular, now that I have all these new parts
on ill give it another try.

the NAPA plug wires, dist. cap and rotor button are
1 year old. plugs are factory spec. and the
gap is by the book.

replaced the air cleaner heat diverter flap diaphragm
and the 2 port vacuum sensor on the under
side of the air cleaner.

replaced the vacuum advance on the dist.

replaced the fuel pump.

replaced the exhaust valve on the crossover tube that
ties into the belt driven air pump.

the problems are:

the tranny grabs hard in 1st gear but seems to shift
OK. I really notice it when its warm out.
do I need to change all the fluid out now or can I
get trough this all right?

when I floor it, the secondary kick in like usual,
but after they shut off, the carb. stays in a
a high RPM and will not kick down. but when I shut
the engine off for 5min. the idle returns
to normal. shut it off and try too soon and the RPM
stays high. where do I start looking,
the auto choke, or is something sticking?

it has just recently developed a miss, and I need to
check the condition of the plugs to find
out if IM running rich. the carb. I got from Radiator
Supply was flow bench tested and ive
not touched it. when its cold it wants to stall out
and the choke doesn't hold a fast idle when
barely warm. there is 2 exhaust diverter valves.
one is on the manifold, and one on the
exhaust collector. they both hold vacuum but I have
never seen them working. do I take
the intake manifold off and clean it all out? then put
on a new EGR valve?

somehow all this
is related to carbon build-up I just know it. or is
it one of the PVS switches? IM also thinking now that
ive gotten a hotter coil, and a new ign. box, do I
beef up the dist. cap and rotor button?
go to a hotter plug? widen the plug gap?


and how does the cata. conv. fit into this. if its been running rich for
over 80,000mi before I got it,
should I look at this too?
as for the exhaust diverter valves, if there holding vacuum but dont DO
anything, are the passages in the intake plugged up? would this be causing
the choke to kick down to soon? are the exhaust diverter valve and
temperature sensor in the air cleaner working,? they are brand new. and how
are the two vac. lines supposed to hook up to the temperature sensor? which
one goes to manifold vac.?

sorry this is so long, but its driving me nuts now, at least it runs great
at highway speeds.
can any one help?
thank-you
mike p.
pmbaker your-net.com



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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:35:08 -0500
From: "Rick Wojciechowski"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 93 Ford XLT 302 5.0

Michael Whities wrote:

> Whenever I get out of my truck the warning "beep", for leaving your lights
> on or a key in the ignition, stays on constantly. I can have everything
> turned off and it will continue to "beep". Its good, because, it makes me

BigMike,
Sounds to me like your thingy on the door jam may or may not
have a short. The door thingy I am referring to is in the door jam
between the door hinges. I replaced one on my '92 Mustang and
the part costs $8.00-$9.00 from Ford as I recall. It simply screws
in and out. I had to replace mine on the mustang because mine was
not working at all. Now almost wish I didn't. :-)
- --
Thanks,
Rick Wojo
'83 Fsize BRONCO,Stock I-6,"The BROWN BULL",33x12.5x15-Mud Blasters
'92 Mstng 5.0L
'95 eclipse-Wife's(For Sale)


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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:29:35 EDT
From: Kbeverwein aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re:FTE 80-96-Fuel or Ignition problem

I need some. I have a 86 F250, 460, C-6. which i just bought a couple weeks
ago.
I rebuilt the carburetor after i got it. It was flooding really bad. That
worked for about
two days and now I am back where I started from. So what I have done this
past week is replaced the stock ford Holley 4-barrel double pumper carb, with
an Edelbrock EDL-1406, replaced all plugs again, have new wires, cap and
rotor. Truck
starts up just fine and idles great. When I take it for a test drive that is
when the
problem happens. I get up to about 35 mph and the engine starts to shake like
it is
completely out of balance. So I'm thinking that it is the Ignition. because
if it was
running out of fuel it should just fall flat on its face. Does anyone know
what may cause this problem.
Also still trying to find some good wiring schematics and repair/service
manual
for same truck.

Brian
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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:05:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Michael Whities
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 93 Ford XLT 302 5.0

On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Rick Wojciechowski wrote:

> Michael Whities wrote:
>
> > Whenever I get out of my truck the warning "beep", for leaving your lights
> > on or a key in the ignition, stays on constantly. I can have everything
> > turned off and it will continue to "beep". Its good, because, it makes me
>
> BigMike,
> Sounds to me like your thingy on the door jam may or may not
> have a short. The door thingy I am referring to is in the door jam
> between the door hinges. I replaced one on my '92 Mustang and
> the part costs $8.00-$9.00 from Ford as I recall. It simply screws
> in and out. I had to replace mine on the mustang because mine was
> not working at all. Now almost wish I didn't. :-)
> --
> Thanks,
> Rick Wojo
> '83 Fsize BRONCO,Stock I-6,"The BROWN BULL",33x12.5x15-Mud Blasters
> '92 Mstng 5.0L
> '95 eclipse-Wife's(For Sale)
>
>
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>

Rick,

Ok! Thanks. I'll check it out when I get off work today. I was thinking
maybe it was something in the light switch. The other day I did have to
lights on and walked away from my truck, then looked and noticed my lights
was on. I walked back and opened the door and it was "beeping" so I turned
the lights off then the "beeping" stopped. I was like "Ok!", but its back
and I haven't been able to repeat it yet.

Sincerely,

Little BIGmike confused,


Michael


Michael D. Whities
bigmike netdoor.com
bigmike pager.netdoor.com
mwhities netdoor.com
mwhities pager.netdoor.com


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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:47:58 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - How much damage did I do?

>From: kroger ucla.edu
>Subject: FTE 80-96 - How much damage did I do?
>
>the result is I've been driving around LA three days
>with one front hub locked (2 HI) -- nobody ever took
>the hub out of lock. I think it was my fault.

Yo Jim:

The only parts worn excessively by driving w/ one hub locked are the
differential gears -- the intermediate gears and the side gears (spider
gears). The amount you drove w/ one hub locked is probably equivalent to
driving about 4-8K miles normally. This will shorten the overall life of
the differential gears, but not dramatically. I wouldn't worry too much
about it.

>Friday all the u-joints (5), the half shaft, and the front
>bearings were replaced in an effort to diagnose
>and cure the problem to no avail. Today I was
>about to switch the spare and the left front wheel,
>and it occured to me to check the hub settings.

I hope you didn't pay someone else to do this for you. I would have some
misgivings about their diagnostic abilities (if not their other abilities
and/or ethics) if they didn't even check the simple and obvious things
first.

Good luck w/ your truck.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:14:58 -0500
From: "David Anderson (EUS)"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Just no fun to drive

I'm trying hard to enjoy driving my '90 F150, 300 I6, E4OD, but ever
since I bought it last fall with 95K miles it's had this nagging
driveability problem. At this point I don't even know if it's fuel or
ignition, so I turn to you all for suggestions.
1. To cold start an EFI engine you're supposed to just turn the key
without touching the gas and let the computer manage the fast idle. If I do
this it just sputters and dies. So I use the throttle to keep it running
for the first minute or so. After the first minute, and any time the engine
is warm, the idle is perfect; very smooth, correct RPM. So this cold start
thing is just like a carburated engine without a choke. All warm starts are
fine, a little fast idle then settles down.
2. During part throttle acceleration there is a miss, sometimes to
the point of bucking. This happens when the engine is cold and most of the
time when warm. Heavy to full throttle acceleration is smooth with plenty
of power.
3. Lastly is the off-idle hesitation or flat spot. Just sitting at
a stop with a perfect idle I never know when I'll get a big sag when I ease
onto the gas. This is probably the most annoying problem.
Now, what's been done so far? This truck is in very good condition,
basically un-messed with, nothing jury rigged. Thermostat replaced, coolant
temp sensor checked (hot and cold), Air Inlet temp sensor and TPS checked,
Oxg sensor inspected, EGR valve replaced, spark plugs checked, cap OK, wires
replaced, timing and advance correct, clean air filter, new fuel filter, one
use of Techron cleaner no help (either tank, same problems), no computer
codes.
The weird thing about all this is that if the truck sits for a few
days, cold start is perfect. It's even smooth and responsive while cold but
once it warms up, back to lean balky running. Early on I cleaned the Idle
Air Bypass valve which seemed to help everything for a few days. Several
months later I cleaned it again, no help. EGR valve was replaced because I
put a hole in the diaphragm while checking it. I did find by experiment
that getting rid of EGR action (plugging the vacuum line) helps the part
throttle miss some, (I guess the mixture is a little richer). Exhaust
always seems lean and I get a slightly low to normal 15 mpg overall. I
considered an intake vacuum leak or dirty injectors but not with a smooth
idle. I have not checked the fuel pressure yet. As you can tell I'm all
over the place, not even focused on fuel or ignition problems yet and am out
of ideas. Sorry for the long post but I wanted to accurately state the
facts in hopes of some good suggestions.
Thanks, David Anderson
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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:01:49 -0500
From: "Bruce Morgan"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Just no fun to drive

Dave I am no expert but it sounds like replacing the TFI module on the
bottom of the Distributor would solve some problems.

- -----Original Message-----
From: David Anderson (EUS)
To: '80 Ford Truck'
Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 3:37 PM
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Just no fun to drive


> I'm trying hard to enjoy driving my '90 F150, 300 I6, E4OD, but ever
>since I bought it last fall with 95K miles it's had this nagging
>driveability problem. At this point I don't even know if it's fuel or
>ignition, so I turn to you all for suggestions.
> 1. To cold start an EFI engine you're supposed to just turn the key
>without touching the gas and let the computer manage the fast idle. If I
do
>this it just sputters and dies. So I use the throttle to keep it running
>for the first minute or so. After the first minute, and any time the
engine
>is warm, the idle is perfect; very smooth, correct RPM. So this cold start
>thing is just like a carburated engine without a choke. All warm starts
are
>fine, a little fast idle then settles down.
> 2. During part throttle acceleration there is a miss, sometimes to
>the point of bucking. This happens when the engine is cold and most of the
>time when warm. Heavy to full throttle acceleration is smooth with plenty
>of power.
> 3. Lastly is the off-idle hesitation or flat spot. Just sitting at
>a stop with a perfect idle I never know when I'll get a big sag when I ease
>onto the gas. This is probably the most annoying problem.
> Now, what's been done so far? This truck is in very good condition,
>basically un-messed with, nothing jury rigged. Thermostat replaced,
coolant
>temp sensor checked (hot and cold), Air Inlet temp sensor and TPS checked,
>Oxg sensor inspected, EGR valve replaced, spark plugs checked, cap OK,
wires
>replaced, timing and advance correct, clean air filter, new fuel filter,
one
>use of Techron cleaner no help (either tank, same problems), no computer
>codes.
> The weird thing about all this is that if the truck sits for a few
>days, cold start is perfect. It's even smooth and responsive while cold
but
>once it warms up, back to lean balky running. Early on I cleaned the Idle
>Air Bypass valve which seemed to help everything for a few days. Several
>months later I cleaned it again, no help. EGR valve was replaced because I
>put a hole in the diaphragm while checking it. I did find by experiment
>that getting rid of EGR action (plugging the vacuum line) helps the part
>throttle miss some, (I guess the mixture is a little richer). Exhaust
>always seems lean and I get a slightly low to normal 15 mpg overall. I
>considered an intake vacuum leak or dirty injectors but not with a smooth
>idle. I have not checked the fuel pressure yet. As you can tell I'm all
>over the place, not even focused on fuel or ignition problems yet and am
out
>of ideas. Sorry for the long post but I wanted to accurately state the
>facts in hopes of some good suggestions.
>Thanks, David Anderson
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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:59:16 -0700
From: "Posluszny, Walt (POSL)"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Octane Reply

From: (Troy Williams)
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Octane

On 9 Oct 98, at 7:02, Posluszny, Walt (POSL) wrote:

>Technically you can run the lowest octane gas your engine will tolerate
>under your normal driving conditions without pinging or knocking.
>Regardless of Octane.

What normal driving conditions? I drive in the mornings at a top
speed of a whopping 35 MPh to school, [snip]

[Troy, my note said YOUR normal driving conditions. For you and your
truck what you described above IS normal. Use the lowest octane you can
with out pinging. Normal is a relative term for everyone]

>General Note : Higher octane gas provides more resistance to self
>ignition over lower octane gas, as well as higher additive levels (such
as
>detergents, etc..in most cases). The best place to start is with the
OEM
>octane recommendation for your vehicle and then adjust only if
necessary
>due to your specific engine conditions, your driving style or local
>climate conditions. Octane needs may change as those three variables
>change.

Alright, where would I find that for an '84 F-150? I do not have
the vehicle manual. That's why I am asking about it here.

[I wish I could help. My 85 F-150 built in 84 pings like hell on 87
octane but I think my Carb Feedback Solenoid is leaking. (I can disable
it and it doesn't ping). My rig is a 351 - 2V with a 4 spd manual and
it was designed to run on regular. Or so my manual claims, but it won't,
for now, at least until I fix the solenoid.]

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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:00:57 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: Octane

>From: lordjanusz juno.com (Paul M Radecki)
>Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: Octane
>
>Someone said:
>>. Although I agree that
>>carbon build-up isn't very good for any engine....I do
>>not understand how
>>running higher octane gas can cause this.
>
>Chemically, Octane is a big long hairy chain of 8
>carbon atoms:

Yo Paul:

The chemical you are referring to is iso-octane, although the more common
form of the C8H18 molecule found in gasoline is 2,2,4-trimethyl pentane,
which has a branched structure. A mere 8 carbon atoms is not a "big long
hairy chain." Now, the 64 carbon atoms in
Fe-tetra(2-(NHCOtBu)phenyl)porphyrin radical might be considered a big long
hairy chain, or the 90 carbon atoms in
Hexakis[(4-hexylphenyl)ethynyl]benzene might be considered a big long hairy
chain, but not the 8 carbon atoms in iso-octane!

>Methane and ethane, by comparison, are only one-
>and two-carbon chains, respectively. I am told that
>octane works by slowing down the combustion
>process (takes longer/more energy to break up
>those long molecules, or something like that).

Just to clarify what the octane number is, it is an expression of how well
the fuel resists spontaneous autoignition (which causes knocking or
pinging). Chemically, the spontaneous autoignition is caused by
pre-ignition chemical reactions of the end gases (the final stage
decomposition products of the various hydrocarbon components in the fuel
that occurs during the compression stroke). Shorter, straight chain
molecules produce more compounds susceptible to spontaneous autoignition
than longer, branched hydrocarbons. Most octane enhancers used in modern
gasoline are longer, branched hydrocarbons and aromatic hydrocarbons.

The reason this property (i.e., resistance to spontaneous autoignition) is
called "octane" and is expressed in terms of "octane number" is because the
original experiments were performed using fuels that consisted of just two
hydrocarbons, normal heptane and iso-octane. In the original experiments,
it was found that increasing the ratio of iso-octane to normal heptane
increased the fuel's ability to resist spontaneous autoignition. In fact,
there is relatively little iso-octane in gasoline blends now, and there are
many other hydrocarbons with higher octane numbers than iso-octane itself.

Octane number is not related to the specific energy output of the fuel, the
speed of the flame front in a combustion reaction, or to the speed of the
combustion reaction itself. Many octane enhancers (with octane numbers in
the 125-140 range) actually have less specific energy than normal heptane
(the predominant ingredient in gasoline). Remember, the spontaneous
autoignition is independent of the normal combustion reaction(s).

>This is necessary in a high compression motor in
>which fuel burns very quickly, but in today's low
>compression engines complex hydrocarbon
>molecules can slow down the combustion reaction
>too much and leave behind lots of incompletely-
>burned hydrocarbons that either pass on to foul
>your catalytic converter or remain behind to
>crustify your combustion chambers.

Again, octane is not related to the speed at which combustion takes place.
Since the spontaneous autoignition problem is independent of the normal
combustion reactions, the rate at which a spark ignition engine burns fuel
is determined by the specific formulation of the fuel and the quality of
the fuel/air mixture available for combustion. The effect of high
compression is to require a higher octane so as to prevent the type of
spontaneous autoignition problems that are associated with the higher
temperatures in the cylinders (produced by high compression). The high
compression engine is capable of greater power output than a comparable
(same displacement) lower compression engine because the high compression
itself is the determining factor in power output, not the fuel. The need
for a higher octane number fuel is a side-effect of higher compression.

Unburned (or incompletely burned) hydrocarbons are a result of a rich
burning condition, i.e., too much fuel/not enough air (oxygen). If the
mixture was stoichiometric (exactly the right amounts of both reactants),
there would be no unburned hydrocarbons. Modern engines use an AIR (air
injection reaction) system to inject fresh air into the exhaust stream to
promote the further combustion of any unburned hydrocarbons before they
enter the catalytic converter.

For a more detailed explanation of gasoline and combustion chemistry, check
out the following web site:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/autos/gasoline-faq/.html

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:06:18 EDT
From: JSC721 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Just no fun to drive

before you mess with the fuel pump. test or replace the fuel pressure
regulator, its 30 bucks at autozone. its located on the fuel injector rail,
and is held down by 3 allen head screws.good luck.
joe
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