80-96-list-digest Monday, October 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 354



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - Re: how much damage did I do?
RE: FTE 80-96 - TTB Wheel Alignment
Re: FTE 80-96 - How much damage did I do?
Re: FTE 80-96 - How much damage did I do?
Re: FTE 80-96 - ATF in the P/S
FTE 80-96 - Gasoline Octane Thread - FYI
FTE 80-96 - [Fwd: Gasoline Octane Thread - FYI]
Re: FTE 80-96 - How much damage did I do?
Re: FTE 80-96 - How much damage did I do?
FTE 80-96 - RE: won't go into gear
FTE 80-96 - RE: Octane
Re: FTE 80-96 - K & N Filtercharger
FTE 80-96 - FOR SALE: STULL BILLET GRILL 92-96? F-SERIES AND BRONCO

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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:39:00 EDT
From: BGar02167 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: how much damage did I do?

In a message dated 10/11/98 3:48:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
owner-80-96-list-digest ford-trucks.com writes:


locked (2 HI) -- nobody ever took the hub out of lock. I think it was my
fault. >>
Don't sweat it so bad. I think you are fine w/ your diffs. The parts to hurt
are the hub locks. I've
often thought of this scenario you describe and the result is that I double
check my locks.........to no avail......I have often left them locked(both)
and driven many miles forgotten(in 2h). The thing I've wondered is that I
don't check to make sure one is not locked by a prankster every time I drive.
I just don't once around small drivers.
Your front end surely doesn't have air locks or even LS so nothing mechanical
was hurt. You just have a brand new front-end you didn't need. Did you replace
parts that weren't bad?
The thing you need to check is your oil in the front diff. it may have pushed
some out thru the vent tube. Probably not.
I always check all fluid levels in used vehicles as soon as I get homefrom a
buy.
Brian G
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:17:49 -0600
From: "Dale Ellis"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - TTB Wheel Alignment

John, thanks for the response. I did the rotation and balance yesterday,
and now it pulls slightly the other direction! Looks like tires are at
least part of the problem.

I wasn't aware of Ford's paying for one alignment under warranty. I
appreciate that info, and will definitely follow that up.

Dale Ellis
dellis rmi.net


> From: John Kanyan
> Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - TTB Wheel Alignment
>
> Dale yep had the same prob with mine. get the alignment
> checked,and keep the
> tires rotated every 5000 or so..BTW did you know ford will pay for one
> alignment under the basic warranty.....John

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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:19:33 -0500
From: "David J. Baldwin"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - How much damage did I do?

kroger ucla.edu wrote:

> ... I've been driving around LA three days with one front hub
> locked (2 HI)
> ...I expect I did major damage to everything in both differentials and the
> transfer case which will greatly shorten their life if not cause damage
> that may show up soon.

Don't worry. You've just been spinning the front gearset around on one side and
spinning the other (unlocked side) free--and maybe the input shaft, too. The spider
gears are square cut, I believe, and they were probably the source of the noise.
Kind-of like the square cut on the reverse gear in a manual gearbox--you know how
loud that can be. So you've given them a little more of a workout than most get,
but it didn't have much load. Probably no damage done.

Change the front diff lube, and check for fragments. If you've ever had a gearbox
grind itself up (I have), you'll know if something's bad: all kinds of granulated
metal in there. Almost looks like sand--except it's metalic.
If it comes out clean, don't worry and enjoy your truck (my bet).

I've heard of this happening before, and never knew of it to cause any damage. Now
the automatic hubs (especially on Rangers) ---ugh! That's another story.

The only thing you absolutely DONT want to do is lock the hubs and drive with the
front drive engaged (4hi or 4low) on dry pavement. All four wheels will travel at
different speeds, especially when turning, and will bind-up the drivetrain. The
high stresses that build can cause failure. If you want to spin the front-end gears
around once a month (if you don't do off-roading or live in LA where it never
freezes), you can lock the front hubs and drive in 2hi for a little bit.

- --
Dave Baldwin
Dallas, TX
- --------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:31:49 -0700
From: Randy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - How much damage did I do?

David J. Baldwin wrote:
>
> kroger ucla.edu wrote:
>
- -----snip-----
>
> The only thing you absolutely DONT want to do is lock the hubs and drive with the
> front drive engaged (4hi or 4low) on dry pavement. All four wheels will travel at
> different speeds, especially when turning, and will bind-up the drivetrain. The
> high stresses that build can cause failure. If you want to spin the front-end gears
> around once a month (if you don't do off-roading or live in LA where it never
> freezes), you can lock the front hubs and drive in 2hi for a little bit.
>
> --
> Dave Baldwin
> Dallas, TX



It will NOT hurt or bind-up your drivetrain to drive w/the 4x engaged
on dry pavement. The factory differentials are either 'open'
(regular) or limited-slip. Both allow the wheels to turn at different
speeds when necessary, i.e. turning (hence the name differential).
The 'spider' gears allow the 'side' gears (affixed to each axleshaft)
to turn at different speeds. That's why on an 'open' diff you spin
the tire w/the LEAST amount of traction in slippery condition. A
limited-slip uses clutches or springs to overcome this...to a point.
Once the torque on the gears exceeds the force of the limited-slip
device, the tire w/the least amount of traction will spin. Only
positive locking axles (Detroit Locker, ARB Air Lockers - engaged or
course, for example) will rotate both tires at the same speed all the
time no matter if traction is good, bad or otherwise (generically
called lockers and limited-slip is usually referred to a posi, even
though technically it's incorrect). That's why they're not practical
for everyday use, you'd always, always be spinning one rear tire while
turning corners (Detroit Lockers will disengage temporarily and
'differentiate' while COASTING around a corner).
So, if you're in 4 wheel drive due to bad weather or you and your
buddies did some wheelin' and you go onto dry pavement and drive all
the way home like that, it's nothing to worry about. Of course you
don't want to drive on dry pavement all the time engaged since it's
unnecessary and will only cost you more money in gas and long time
wear on the drive parts.

Later,
Randy (Brew)
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:30:09 EDT
From: Kbeverwein aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - ATF in the P/S

had the same problem on a 78 zephyr. Decided not to buy new pump, also didn't
have any power steering or trans fluid. We put 2 cycle in it and it is still
working today. We
did this about 2 years ago. It has lost any fluid either.

brian
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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:17:55 -0400
From: Matt Marinak
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Gasoline Octane Thread - FYI

Was following the octane thread a while.

Came across an interesting link that may help some of you. (I haven't
made it through the documents yet. But, jeez - do they look like more
detail than I have to look over casually.

If you understand the contents fully, apply for your PHD. :-)
enjoy...

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/autos/gasoline-faq/.html

Matt

95 F150sc/2wd - 302ci/E40D

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:20:07 -0400
From: Matt Marinak
Subject: FTE 80-96 - [Fwd: Gasoline Octane Thread - FYI]

Was following the octane thread a while.

Came across an interesting link that may help some of you. (I haven't
made it through the documents yet. But, jeez - do they look like more
detail than I have to look over casually.

If you understand the contents fully, apply for your PHD. :-)
enjoy...

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/autos/gasoline-faq/.html

Matt

95 F150sc/2wd - 302ci/E40D
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 22:08:46 -0400
From: Andre Roy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - How much damage did I do?

Randy wrote:
>
> David J. Baldwin wrote:
> >
> > kroger ucla.edu wrote:
> >
> -----snip-----
> >
> > The only thing you absolutely DONT want to do is lock the hubs and drive with the
> > front drive engaged (4hi or 4low) on dry pavement. All four wheels will travel at
> > different speeds, especially when turning, and will bind-up the drivetrain. The
> > high stresses that build can cause failure. If you want to spin the front-end gears
> > around once a month (if you don't do off-roading or live in LA where it never
> > freezes), you can lock the front hubs and drive in 2hi for a little bit.
> >
> > --
> > Dave Baldwin
> > Dallas, TX
>
> It will NOT hurt or bind-up your drivetrain to drive w/the 4x engaged
> on dry pavement. The factory differentials are either 'open'
> (regular) or limited-slip. ......
>
Everything you say is true. Absolutely true. If, and only if, you have
differentiation _between_ the front and rear axles.

If the front and rear drive shafts are locked together, when you go
around a corner, the average radius of the front wheels will be larger
than the average radius of the rear wheels. That's where the binding
will occur. The transfer case (if it locks the front and rear together)
will be trying to turn the front and rear driveshafts at the same speed.
The wheels, because the front cover a wider arc in a curve, will try to
run at different speeds. It's hard on theu-joints. Probably nothing that
bothers the differentials.

Now, if you have some sort of full-time 4wd, or soe sort of differential
between the front and rear, then there's no problem. But if the front
and rear driveshafts are driven without any kind of differentiation,
that's where the binding will occur.





> So, if you're in 4 wheel drive due to bad weather or you and your
> buddies did some wheelin' and you go onto dry pavement and drive all
> the way home like that, it's nothing to worry about.
>
Likely nothing to worry about at all. As long as you're not trolling
through mall parking lots, making lots of turns, especially sharp ones.
On the freeway, there will be so little problem, you won't notice it.

And on bad roads (snow, slush, etc) the fact thta the tires will slip
easily means that the drivetrain won't get a lot of stresses.


> Of course you
> don't want to drive on dry pavement all the time engaged since it's
> unnecessary and will only cost you more money in gas and long time
> wear on the drive parts.
>
Again. Absolutely true.

- --
Andre, Somewhere ...
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 21:26:34 -0500
From: Chad A Dietrich
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - How much damage did I do?

Randy,
I disagree. I have bound many front axles driving in four wheel on dry pavement. When
it happened the first time the dealer told me that on my 86 Dana 44 the front wheels would
spin more than the back wheels (i.e. that's why you put chains on the front wheels not the
back on a 4x4). This would prevent the limited slip from always working properly. If you
are in 4x and attempt a corner with every thing locked in and on the gas a bit you will
feel the hopping of the front end because the diff isn't working properly. Of course you
can do it is long as you are not adding power while turning or even going straight. that's
why they recommend not driving on dry pavement.

Randy wrote:

> David J. Baldwin wrote:
> >
> > kroger ucla.edu wrote:
> >
> -----snip-----
> >
> > The only thing you absolutely DONT want to do is lock the hubs and drive with the
> > front drive engaged (4hi or 4low) on dry pavement. All four wheels will travel at
> > different speeds, especially when turning, and will bind-up the drivetrain. The
> > high stresses that build can cause failure. If you want to spin the front-end gears
> > around once a month (if you don't do off-roading or live in LA where it never
> > freezes), you can lock the front hubs and drive in 2hi for a little bit.
> >
> > --
> > Dave Baldwin
> > Dallas, TX
>
> It will NOT hurt or bind-up your drivetrain to drive w/the 4x engaged
> on dry pavement. The factory differentials are either 'open'
> (regular) or limited-slip. Both allow the wheels to turn at different
> speeds when necessary, i.e. turning (hence the name differential).
> The 'spider' gears allow the 'side' gears (affixed to each axleshaft)
> to turn at different speeds. That's why on an 'open' diff you spin
> the tire w/the LEAST amount of traction in slippery condition. A
> limited-slip uses clutches or springs to overcome this...to a point.
> Once the torque on the gears exceeds the force of the limited-slip
> device, the tire w/the least amount of traction will spin. Only
> positive locking axles (Detroit Locker, ARB Air Lockers - engaged or
> course, for example) will rotate both tires at the same speed all the
> time no matter if traction is good, bad or otherwise (generically
> called lockers and limited-slip is usually referred to a posi, even
> though technically it's incorrect). That's why they're not practical
> for everyday use, you'd always, always be spinning one rear tire while
> turning corners (Detroit Lockers will disengage temporarily and
> 'differentiate' while COASTING around a corner).
> So, if you're in 4 wheel drive due to bad weather or you and your
> buddies did some wheelin' and you go onto dry pavement and drive all
> the way home like that, it's nothing to worry about. Of course you
> don't want to drive on dry pavement all the time engaged since it's
> unnecessary and will only cost you more money in gas and long time
> wear on the drive parts.
>
> Later,
> Randy (Brew)
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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:33:54 -0500
From: lordjanusz juno.com (Paul M Radecki)
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: won't go into gear

Casey Vandor wrote:
>
> I hate to drag this up again, but it is only 10 degrees out, and my
t-18
> will not go into 2 gear (I can upshift into 2, but coming out of 3, it
> isn't possible) until the thing warms up, (5 miles down the road) I
> have 75w-90 in there now, is there a non-synthetic I could run that is
> more viscous? The napa guys here don't use the synthetic and the
75w-90
> is all they sell. If synthetic is the answer, is there a brand name I
> can look for? If 10 degrees makes it sticky, I can't imagine -60....
> What was I thinking when I came here? LOL
>
I just switched to Mobil 1 synth ATF in the yucky Mazda 5-speed
in my '94 F150. In years past the shifting was really stiff when the
temperature got down around zero (that's about -18 C to you "furriners").
Ask me in February how the synth worked out... For the record, Haynes
recommends SAE 80W gear lube for '92 and earlier 4-speeds and Mercon ATF
for all later transmissions.

lordjanusz juno.com

"Unbreakable toys are good for breaking other toys"

___________________________________________________________________
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or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 21:04:55 -0500
From: lordjanusz juno.com (Paul M Radecki)
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: Octane

Someone said:
>. Although I agree that
>carbon build-up isn't very good for any engine....I do not understand
how
>running higher octane gas can cause this.

Chemically, Octane is a big long hairy chain of 8 carbon atoms:

H H H H H H H H
H--C--C--C--C--C--C--C--C--H
H H H H H H H H

Methane and ethane, by comparison, are only one- and two-carbon chains,
respectively. I am told that octane works by slowing down the combustion
process (takes longer/more energy to break up those long molecules, or
something like that). This is necessary in a high compression motor in
which fuel burns very quickly, but in today's low compression engines
complex hydrocarbon molecules can slow down the combustion reaction too
much and leave behind lots of incompletely-burned hydrocarbons that
either pass on to foul your catalytic converter or remain behind to
crustify your combustion chambers.
As if this wasn't complicated enough, I believe modern gas uses
"octane-like" petrochamicals to simulate the effect produced by real
octane with lower emissions. Nonetheless, the theory should hold.
In my experience, your truck should not need more than 87
"octane" gas, though you might want to run some Techron or other
buildup-remover through it before you decide for sure. Deposits can
cause detonation, leading to higher octane gas, leading to more
deposits... ;-)
BTW, I just filled up the Saturn in Plymouth, IN (US31 and US30)
for 77.9 cents per gallon! Too bad that's 80 miles from home... it's
86.9 cents here in Lafayette. Yes, the oil companies are profiteers, but
don't forget Uncle Sam. Here in Indiana we pay 33.3 cents/gallon in
taxes, and from what I'm told that's not very much! In Chicago gas costs
about 50 cents/gal more than it does here, mostly due to taxes.
Sorry about the bandwidth, Ken, I promise I'll buy a T-shirt and
visit your sponsors' websites, too!

lordjanusz juno.com

"Unbreakable toys are good for breaking other toys"

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You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 21:01:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Christopher Funk
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - K & N Filtercharger

When I put a K&N air filter in my '94 F150 (w/ 300), I did not notice any
increase in performance (as measured with the seat of my pants). I
suspect that with a stock exhaust, the extra flow allowed by the K&N is
not being utilized. The engine can only flow as much air as the most
restrictive element will allow. The stock exhaust is probably the
bottle-neck in my case. K&N's claims of increased power are probably
comparing a set-up with a performance exhaust and stock air-filter
compared to the same performance exhaust with the K&N filter. Any
comments on my theory or on other's experience using the K&N with
aftermarket exhaust systems are certainly welcome.
- -Andy
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Funk
Department of Physics
University of Oregon
Eugene, OR 97403
(541) 346-4726 lab
afunk darkwing.uoregon.edu
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~afunk

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 02:42:02 EDT
From: FSTFORDS ....


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