>From kpayne ford-trucks.com Wed Oct 7 06:11:47 1998
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 06:11:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: owner-80-96-list-digest ford-trucks.com (80-96-list-digest)
To: 80-96-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: 80-96-list-digest V2 #348
Reply-To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Sender: owner-80-96-list-digest ford-trucks.com


80-96-list-digest Wednesday, October 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 348



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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with the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list-digest" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - E4OD transmission failures
RE: FTE 80-96 - Octane rating for '84 F-150.
RE: FTE 80-96 - Re: 80-96-Steering problems
Re: FTE 80-96 - ADMIN: My health and thanks
Re: FTE 80-96 - Octane rating for '84 F-150.
FTE 80-96 - Re: Octane rating for '84 F-150
Re: FTE 80-96 - Octane rating for '84 F-150.
FTE 80-96 - recall orders for TFI ignition module
FTE 80-96 - Body Parts.....
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Octane rating for '84 F-150
Re: FTE 80-96 - recall orders for TFI ignition module
Re: FTE 80-96 - recall orders for TFI ignition module
FTE 80-96 - Re: 300 I6 HELP
FTE 80-96 - Brake Line clip
FTE 80-96 - Redline, Rust prevention, Manual Hubs
FTE 80-96 - Re: spark failure
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Octane rating for '84 F-150
FTE 80-96 - Transfer Case Gasket
Re: FTE 80-96 - Transfer Case Gasket

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:34:46 EDT
From: Dhawk21 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - E4OD transmission failures

Hello,
Would like to have others express concerns regarding the E4OD and all of its
problems. The problems are shuttering, shaking and light flashing. Have a 94
dually that has had 7 transmissions since buying new in 94. hawk
Email address is DHawk21 aol.com
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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:21:44 -0400
From: "John Meade"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Octane rating for '84 F-150.

Troy,

I'm in Gainesville and have always used 87 octaine in my 86 F150 with a 302
V8. The lower octane fuel has never caused any engine problems. Use a
higher rated fuel if you feel that you must, but I'll be surprised if you
find a reliable and knowledge source that will encourage you to do so.

John Meade


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-80-96-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Troy Williams
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 8:25 PM
> To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 80-96 - Octane rating for '84 F-150.
>
>
> Hey folks.
>
> The gas prices down here in Ocala, Florida are starting to get back
> up there, and personally, I am looking for a way to try and save a
> little money, but I don't want to do it at the expense of my engine.
>
> I've got an '84 F-150 equipped with a 302 V-8. I am currently filling
> up with 89 octane, but was wondering about the 87. Is it safe to
> use on this engine, or would I be better off paying a little more for
> the 89? I am afraid to a fill up with the 87 since I am afraid of
> messing up the engine. If someone could fill me, or give me a
> good place to look to try and find this information, I would
> appreciate it. Thanks.
>
> You might be a redneck if... Your hood ornament used to be a bowling
> trophy. - Jeff Foxworthy
>
>
> Troy Williams
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mfi.net/~troyw
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>

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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:25:56 -0400
From: Ethan Vos
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Re: 80-96-Steering problems

ATF has detergents in it that will break up all the sludge and varnish that
has collected in the bottom of the pump. You'll end up with several years
of crap going through he system in 2 or 3 weeks.

Ethan


- -----Original Message-----
From: Chad A Dietrich
Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 10:03 PM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: 80-96-Steering problems

>If so, drain and flush the system well and refill it with power steering
fluid, NOT ATF!

My owners manuel and my rebuilt sector reqire ATF type F or else it says
pemature ware will ocurr. I know the
Type F is defintly thicker and slicker.

Ethan Vos wrote:

> It may be some contamination in the fluid that is flowing through the
pinion of the gear though.
>
> Take a sample of the fluid and drain it through a coffee filter. See if
there are any particles in the fluid.
>
> If so, drain and flush the system well and refill it with power steering
fluid, NOT ATF!
>
> Ethan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BFunk33 aol.com
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 1998 10:46 AM
> To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: 80-96-Steering problems
>
> Original:
>
> From: "Chad A. Dietrich"
> Subject: FTE 80-96 - Steering problems
>
> I hate to ask this type of question, but as always it doesn't act up
> when I take it to the shop. So I'm hoping that someone else has heard of
> a problem like this.
>
> When I'm driving I'll hear a rubbing noise from the front and then
> the wheels will shift to the right and I'll be fighting the steering
> wheel for control. At first it only happend when I would turn right and
> then later on it would happen when I was just driving down the road.
> Everything would be going fine then I would hear the rubbing noise and
> feel a shap pull to the right. My tie rods are all new and I have a
> rebuilt steering sector that only has 1000mi on it. Could worn ball
> joinst cause it? Could a rotor or somthing be loose?
> Thank you,
> Chad >>
>
> I'd bet money (which I don't have ;-) ) that this is in the recirculating
ball
> unit itself. Dodge trucks are prone to this, but it can happen in any
> individual unit. The rubbing noise is a valve(s) chattering, and the pull
is
> the result of one staying open.
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>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:25:41 -0400
From: "Mike S. in FL"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - ADMIN: My health and thanks

REALLY glad to hear it's not toooo serious. I've had similar, but never
had it diagnosed properly. I guess they needed to practice running
their tests. Keep kicking, and keep up the great work on this site,
I/we sure do appreciate it!

Mike Smith in FL.
- --
Remove the 'downto.' for email responses.


Ken Payne wrote:
>
> Many members have sent, either through the lists or personally,
> their concerns since I announced that I was on bed rest last
> week.
>
- ---shortened---
>
> Well, its not life threatening, or even life-span threatening
> so as the say down under: "no worries".
>
> Thanks to the many who expressed their concerns.
>
> Ken Payne
> CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
> http://www.ford-trucks.com
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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:04:10 -0400
From: "David Butts"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Octane rating for '84 F-150.

I'll go one step further. If you don't have pinging, then your shouldn't
run more that 87.

You are causing more carbon buildup running a higher octane gas, and
hurting your engine.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Redden
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, October 05, 1998 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Octane rating for '84 F-150.


>Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you don't have pinging
>then the 87 octane is OK?
>Mike
>
>redden enter.net
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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:04:00 -0500
From: "Wallace, Craig"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Octane rating for '84 F-150

To: 80-96 Ford Trucks

On Oct. 6th, Troy Williams said:

I've got an '84 F-150 equipped with a 302 V-8. I am currently filling
up with 89 octane, but was wondering about the 87. Is it safe to
use on this engine, or would I be better off paying a little more for
the 89? I am afraid to a fill up with the 87 since I am afraid of
messing up the engine. If someone could fill me, or give me a
good place to look to try and find this information, I would
appreciate it. Thanks.
________________________________________________________
Troy,

I've got a '94 F-150 XLT 300 I-6 4.9 L and my manual specifies 87 octane.
But then again, 89 may be recommended for the V-8 in your manual. I have,
though, on one occasion had spark knock, but just decided to never get gas
at
that station again (perhaps they have water in their gas....I wouldn't put
it
past them). I've had my truck almost two years now and have never had a
problem with 87 octane other than the one occasion. Give it a try and see
if
you experience any knocking.

I've read where 89 octane is not much different than 87 other than just a
few
more detergents. Can someone elaborate a little more on the difference
between the two? There's not much difference in the cost (mostly a penny or
two...depending on where you buy gas).

BTW, how much is gas down there in Florida? I live in Brighton, IL, but get
gas in the St. Louis area which is currently running around 85-87 cents a
gallon for 87 octane.

Later,
Craig
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:57:16 -0500
From: "David J. Baldwin"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Octane rating for '84 F-150.

Troy Williams wrote:

> I've got an '84 F-150 equipped with a 302 V-8. I am currently filling
> up with 89 octane, but was wondering about the 87. Is it safe to
> use on this engine, or would I be better off paying a little more for
> the 89?

You can run it on the lowest you can get without detonation. Try the 87
octane (I run it, and have never had any problems). If you end up with
detonation, there are several things you can do:

1. Run higher octane, like you're doing now.
2. Try a lower temperature thermostat.
3. Reduce initial spark advance.
4. Check EGR.

Reducing your advance will make it a bit more sluggish. I don't know if
you even have EGR, but the purpose of EGR is to reduce the combustion
temperature to prevent the formation of oxides of nitrogen. Another
effect of the lower combustion temperature is lower combustion pressure,
which should reduce your tendecy to detonate.

- --
Dave Baldwin
Dallas, TX
- --------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:23:43 -0700
From: "Todd Dickson"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - recall orders for TFI ignition module

Is there a place to look up recall orders by model and year? Is there a
protocol for car makers on dealing with parts that fail un-safe? Or is
there a place to find information on ongoing product liability or class
actions in order to influence a recall order?
- - Todd
(I'm specifically interested in what the company has to say about my truck
shutting down instantaneously at any old speed and any old time of day.
I've already replaced the ignition module and distributor once, which is
starting to help, but it only takes one failure in the wrong place at the
wrong time... There does seem to be a heat-related factor in the failure; my
father-in-law's '97 F150 couldn't take the heat, either; his open-door
sensor used to go off continuously above 85 deg. F. Makes me wonder if they
design and test these things in the dead of the Michigan winter or what...)


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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:41:48 -0500
From: "Rick Wojciechowski"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Body Parts.....

Gang,The following message is from a guy(Lance) on the
bronco mail list asked this question, and I told him I
would forward it to the truck list and send him any info
you guys might be able to help out with. See below.

- --
Thanks,
Rick Wojo
'83 Fsize BRONCO,Stock I-6,"The BROWN BULL",33x12.5x15-Mud Blasters
'92 Mstng 5.0L
'95 eclipse-Wife's(For Sale)

> From: "lance"
> Subject: Body Parts.....
> Date sent: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:45:41 -0400
>
> > Somewhat off topic but, my brother in law is doing a frame off resto on a
> > 78 Ford pickup (F150?) and needs a stepside bed. The entire truck is
> > finished (almost) but he cant find a bed. If not a stepside a flareside.
> > Anybody know where to look?
>
>
> =====
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.bigbroncos.com



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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 11:55:44 -0400
From: Andre Roy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Octane rating for '84 F-150

Wallace, Craig wrote:
>
> To: 80-96 Ford Trucks
>
> On Oct. 6th, Troy Williams said:
>
> I've got an '84 F-150 equipped with a 302 V-8. I am currently filling
> up with 89 octane, but was wondering about the 87. Is it safe to
> use on this engine, or would I be better off paying a little more for
> the 89? I am afraid to a fill up with the 87 since I am afraid of
> messing up the engine. If someone could fill me, or give me a
> good place to look to try and find this information, I would
> appreciate it. Thanks.
> ________________________________________________________
> Troy,
>
> I've got a '94 F-150 XLT 300 I-6 4.9 L and my manual specifies 87 octane.
> But then again, 89 may be recommended for the V-8 in your manual.
>
That's the best advice there, check the owner's manual. It will specify
the grade. Any higher than you need is just being charitable to the oil
companies. ;-)


> I've read where 89 octane is not much different than 87 other than just a
> few
> more detergents. Can someone elaborate a little more on the difference
> between the two?
>
Well, I'm no chemist, but that never stopped me before ;-). There is
some extra anti-knock agents in it. In the old days, that would have
been tetra-ethyl lead, now adays it ...

There may, or may not be more additives in it.

> There's not much difference in the cost (mostly a penny or
> two...depending on where you buy gas).
>
There's likely even less difference in cost to the oil companies. Most
of the extra cost is "value added" The value is being added to their
bank account.

Sorry about the ranting. But the bottom line is, run what doesn't make
your truck knock. Anything higher is a waste of money. If you want
detergents, evert five tanks or so, run one of the fuel injection
additives through the tank.

(my opinion, you paid nothing for it, and that's what it's worth ;-)

> BTW, how much is gas down there in Florida? I live in Brighton, IL, but get
> gas in the St. Louis area which is currently running around 85-87 cents a
> gallon for 87 octane.
>
Oh, sigh.... About 57 cents a litre up here... about $1.40/US Gallon,
accounting for exchange and all.

- --
Andre, Somewhere ...
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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 11:56:10 -0400
From: John Kanyan
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - recall orders for TFI ignition module

At 08:23 AM 10/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Is there a place to look up recall orders by model and year? Is there a
>protocol for car makers on dealing with parts that fail un-safe? Or is
>there a place to find information on ongoing product liability or class
>actions in order to influence a recall order?
>- Todd
>(I'm specifically interested in what the company has to say about my truck
>shutting down instantaneously at any old speed and any old time of day.
>I've already replaced the ignition module and distributor once, which is
>starting to help, but it only takes one failure in the wrong place at the
>wrong time... There does seem to be a heat-related factor in the failure; my
>father-in-law's '97 F150 couldn't take the heat, either; his open-door
>sensor used to go off continuously above 85 deg. F. Makes me wonder if they
>design and test these things in the dead of the Michigan winter or what...)
>
>

>Todd try this site www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/recmmy1.cfm
>see if that helps....John
John Kanyan

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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 12:02:33 -0400
From: Andre Roy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - recall orders for TFI ignition module

Todd Dickson wrote:
>
> Is there a place to look up recall orders by model and year?
>
try http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.alldata.com, gotta follow a few links from there and the
site will tell you the number and title of the recall and/or TSB. It
doesn't go into details, (but for the low-low price of US$30.00(?)
they'll sell you that information along with a complete service manual
on CD-ROM, no I'm not affiliated with them in anyway but I do know a
couple of the guys who work in the Chrysler section)

> Is there a
> protocol for car makers on dealing with parts that fail un-safe? Or is
> there a place to find information on ongoing product liability or class
> actions in order to influence a recall order?
>
The NHTSA also has a website that lists safety recalls and
investigations. I can't remember the address, sorry.

- --
Andre, Somewhere ...
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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:17:54 -0500
From: lordjanusz juno.com (Paul M Radecki)
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: 300 I6 HELP

Rade said to Dale:

>Clifford Performance is a company dedicated to high performance inline
>engines. They sell alot of performacne parts for the 300 I-6 like
headers
>heads and intake manifolds. I'm not sure if they have a web site
though.

www.cliffordperformance.com

Dale's query:
> Stock hp and torque
>ratings?? Also, what kinda fuel injection are the late models? Speed
>Density?

This topic has been kicked about on other lists, and the consensus seems
to be that you can get better performance for less money with a V8.
Still, (all together now): it's your truck. According to the '96 sales
literature (last year for the 300 AFAIK) the Big Six was rated at 145-150
hp 3400 rpm and 257-265 lb/ft 2000-2200 rpm. The numbers vary for
different trannies, CA emissions, and GVWRs, but this is the ballpark for
a late, fuellie I6. My '94 is speed density; I don't know if they ever
put mass air on the 6. For a high performance application you will
probably find carburation to be more productive, especially if you use a
Clifford intake, cam, and headers.

lordjanusz juno.com

"Unbreakable toys are good for breaking other toys"

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 16:16:53 CDT
From: "John Fletcher"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Brake Line clip

Ok, I am working on my dads '86 F-150 4X2 302 C-6. anyway how do you
get those brake line clips that hold on the rubber lines up front off?
the clips are reversed so that they are up against the frame rail. I
need to know soon so I can get the truck inside!
Thanks,
John Fletcher

______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 20:23:00 -0500
From: Geoffrey Schrag
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Redline, Rust prevention, Manual Hubs

Hey guys,

Thanks for the help with the other questions. -here are a few more!
1. It looks like I have my hub leak fixed with new thicker o-ring, The cap
is still a little loose, I can press on it and it moves a little. There is
a large "lock ring" that comes in the Ford hub rebuild kit about the
thickness of coat hanger wire that is supposed to go on but when I put it
on the gap between the cap and hub looks too wide?-do I have to put this
thing on? 2. Just wondering if anyone knows what the redline is for a 1980
351M? Couldn't find this info in several manuals. 3. My cab corners have
been rusting out. I recently pulled the moldings, sill plates, and cover
off the spool for the front shoulder belts. These areas were loaded with
dirt and junk that I cleaned out. I noticed that there do not appear to be
any drain holes in these areas. Anything spilled on my rubberized
carpeting drains right into these areas and channels, but it appears that
they didn't insert any holes at the factory to drain these areas. I guess
they figured this would increase body shop revenue. Has anyone tried
drilling drain holes to alleviate this problem and do you have any ideas on
placement? 3. Somebody ripped off my bucking bronco tire cover!-any idea
where I could get another one & how much it would cost? Thanks again,

- -Geof Schrag
1980 Bronco 351M 4sp
gcs fw.umn.edu-
Geoffrey Schrag
Dept. Fisheries & Wildlife
University of Minnesota
1980 Folwell Ave.
200 Hodson Hall
St. Paul, MN 55108
Office: 651-624-2772
Home: 651-646-8801
gcs fw.umn.edu
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Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 01:18:19 -0300
From: sbest
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: spark failure

>From: "Todd Dickson"
>Subject: FTE 80-96 - spark failure
>
>Do you know anything about intermittent spark failure possibly related to
>the ignition control module? (I have a 1986 F150.) I have experienced
>intermittent spark failure occurring both during operation and after
>shutdown that lasts from 5 - 40 minutes before spark returns.
>
>- - Todd


I'd guess a bad connection Todd. The wires into the back of the connectors
corrode and get bad.


Steve Best, Nova Scotia, sbest glinx.com
4 wheel drive van page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.glinx.com/users/sbest
Tire chains, camping gear, tools,82 Bronco and some shooting stuff too.







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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 23:51:10 -0500
From: "BigRed"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Octane rating for '84 F-150

>> BTW, how much is gas down there in Florida? I live in Brighton, IL, but
get
>> gas in the St. Louis area which is currently running around 85-87 cents a
>> gallon for 87 octane.
>>
>Oh, sigh.... About 57 cents a litre up here... about $1.40/US Gallon,
>accounting for exchange and all.
Not much better here in northern MN at about $1.15 a gallon. It'll be up
to about $1.20 or so when snow flys so they can make a few extra bucks from
our snowmobiles too.

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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:05:17 -0500
From: "BigRed"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Transfer Case Gasket

Hi all,
Quick Question(?)--87 5.0 F-150--- Does anyone know how big of a job it is
to put a gasket in a Borg-Warner transfer case? It's hanging off the back of
a C-6 if that makes a difference. How hard to take apart, and put back
together? And also, will I have to worry about any of the gears falling out
when I get it apart? I replaced the ones between it and the tranny a couple
months ago so they are good to go. Now that the truck is sitting in the
garage with the motor out I keep finding more leaks on my floor. When one
thing goes wrong it seems everything else feels left out and has to join in
on the fun of making me spend money I wish I had. Thanks to you all in
advance.

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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:16:23 EDT
From: A4T1RAT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Transfer Case Gasket

If you are talking about a 1356 T-case there is no gasket in the t-case
just silicone the easiest way to reseal it is to remove it from the trans put
....

---

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