80-96-list-digest Wednesday, July 8 1998 Volume 02 : Number 235



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 80-96 - Re: Weird additives
Re: FTE 80-96 - Timing and Mileage
FTE 80-96 - RE:Timing and Mileage and Timing Pinging
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Weird additives
RE: FTE 80-96 - Re: Weird additives
FTE 80-96 - RE: Fuel Injector Cleaner
RE: FTE 80-96 - RE: Fuel Injector Cleaner
FTE 80-96 - RE:84 bad mileage
FTE 80-96 - RE: 5 speed available in 1998...
Re: FTE 80-96 - RE:84 bad mileage
FTE 80-96 - HOW DO YOU TEST THE O2 SENSOR
FTE 80-96 - 1987 F-350 diesel oil pan
Re: FTE 80-96 - Timing Pinging
FTE 80-96 - Anti SUV Survey
Re: FTE 80-96 - Anti SUV Survey
FTE 80-96 - 302 timing

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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 07:34:31 -0700
From: cassis
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Re: Weird additives

Sorry been out of town, but yes it will work and wont f%&k up your
injectors. Go look at a can of injector cleaner and read what is inside.
Tolune is one of its major components. By using straight tolune you are
just putting a stronger cleaner in. I think it was about 8 or 10 bucks for
a 1/2 gallon of the stuff. Just tell the guy at the paint store you are
using it to cut paint with.

- -----Original Message-----
From:IMATOOLMAN aol.com [SMTP:IMATOOLMAN aol.com]
Sent:Sunday, July 05, 1998 10:10 PM
To:80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject:Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Weird additives

Will Tolune from paint store really work the same as fuel inject/cleaner
or will it really mess with the injectors and this is just a goof on us
here?
Tool needs to know
how much does it cost per/pint or per/gal?
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Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 08:56:53 -0700
From: Gene Ball
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Timing and Mileage

Rene, What kind of fuel mileage are you getting? I have a 84 F150 4x4
300I-6
automatic.
I think my mileage sucks! I maybe gettin 10 mpg?
Anyways I am in the prosess of some major performance upgrades.
4 barrel carb 500 edelbrock
4 barrel clifford intake
3 piece, 6 into 1 clifford header
blue printed distrubutor, with advanced curve, yes I had to change the
distrubutor to get
vacuum advance, I also had to change the ignition to accomodate the
distrubutor!
high energy cam kit from comp cams, 260 duration 477 lift, lifters
springs,
timming gears
I also had the head ported and shaved 25000, the vavles were also cut
back
I am just gettin it back together i still need to find a good quiet
muffler
that works well?
So Iam hopeing to get better gas milage and a lot more power!
By the way the truck only has 57000 miles on it.
And I have NO smog control at all! I will run a converter though, they
check
for that
here! HOPE I can pass a smog test?
3.55 gears 32x12.50 BFG A/T
Gene Ball

Rene Poulin wrote:

> Hi All
>
> I have a 84 F150 with a 300 engine. I have hooked up a vacuum gauge
> permanently to the intake manifold to give me an idea of how much fuel I
> am using at any given time. I found recommendations elswhere ont the
> net about advancing the timing anywhere from 2-10 degrees from factory
> specs to improve performance and mileage. So far it seems to work The
> vacuum gauge indicates at least 30% less fuel consumed at cruising speed
> and there is definetly more power. I am just about to go on a long trip
> and will keep track of actual mileage obtained. Anyone else fooled with
> the timing on their motors?
>
> Rene
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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 08:55:58 -0600
From: "Smeins, Larry"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE:Timing and Mileage and Timing Pinging

Different engines will require different amounts of advance. A trick
I've used on older engines is to bump up the timing a degree at a time
until pinging starts. I like to set the timing such that just a little
pinging is evident when lugging the engine at low RPM, hard to get right
with an automatic tranny. If the advance curve isn't too radical you
should be ok and near optimum over the normal operating range. On
modified engines I've adjusted the advance curve so that I got best
performance over the whole RPM range. What I've found is that having
the optimum timing for the octane gasoline being used is important.
You'll get more power and better mileage with regular no-lead and
optimum advance pinging than if you have the timing a little to far
advanced and compensate for it by going to higher octane.

For the guy with the pinging 460, follow the above advice but retard
instead of advance in one degree increments.

Larry

>Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:18:17 -0700
>From: Rene Poulin
>Subject: FTE 80-96 - Timing and Mileage

>Hi All

>I have a 84 F150 with a 300 engine. I have hooked up a vacuum gauge
>permanently to the intake manifold to give me an idea of how much fuel
I
>am using at any given time. I found recommendations elswhere ont the
>net about advancing the timing anywhere from 2-10 degrees from factory
>specs to improve performance and mileage. So far it seems to work The
>vacuum gauge indicates at least 30% less fuel consumed at cruising
speed
>and there is definetly more power. I am just about to go on a long trip
>and will keep track of actual mileage obtained. Anyone else fooled with
>the timing on their motors?

>Rene
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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:57:59 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Weird additives

>From: Jim Cannon
>Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Weird additives
>
>"TOOL" wrote:
>"Will Tolune from paint store really work the same as
>fuel inject/cleaner
>
>I suspect that there are other chemicals in with the toluene
>in those fuel injector cleaners that are really the more active
>ingredients, but I'm not sure. I suspect the toluene is used
>mainly as a carrier (and it is a good solvent, too).
>
>Anyone have an engine they want to experiment on and let the
>list know the results? I don't.

Yo Jim, et al:

Toluene is an "arene," AKA, aromatic hydrocarbon. Its formula is C7H8.
Along w/ its excellent solvent properties, it also has a fairly high octane
rating (124 research, 112 motor) and good specific energy (approx. 40 MJ/kg
versus 45 MJ/kg for normal heptane, which is the predominant ingredient in
gasoline).

Because of its desirable octane-enhancing properties, toluene is used in
almost all gasoline blends. In fact, it is usually one of the major
components of gasoline.

In the US, the EPA restricts toluene content in gasoline to 20% (by weight)
or less. Thus, your normal gasoline may be up to 20% toluene. In some
other countries, the gasoline blend consists of up to 50% toluene.

For more information on gasoline and its components, check out the
following web site:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/autos/gasoline-faq/.html

As for the magic ingredient in fuel injector cleaners, it must be something
else.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:41:41 -0700
From: cassis
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Re: Weird additives

I have to disagree this does work well, I have used under suggestion of one
of the mechanics at a local Ford dealership here in Houston, instead of
injector and it seems to do the trick. Just use one pint in a full tank of
gas and it works. I do this twice a year now. But originaly my truck seemed
to have a ruff idle and this is what my mechanic suggested I try before
bring the truck in - it worked for me. I must admit I was a little
skeptical until I tried it.

John Cassis
93' STX 4x4 3.0/5-speed

- -----Original Message-----
From:Dave Resch [SMTP:dresch sybase.com]
Sent:Tuesday, July 07, 1998 8:58 AM
To:80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject:Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Weird additives

>From: Jim Cannon
>Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: Weird additives
>
>"TOOL" wrote:
>"Will Tolune from paint store really work the same as
>fuel inject/cleaner
>
>I suspect that there are other chemicals in with the toluene
>in those fuel injector cleaners that are really the more active
>ingredients, but I'm not sure. I suspect the toluene is used
>mainly as a carrier (and it is a good solvent, too).
>
>Anyone have an engine they want to experiment on and let the
>list know the results? I don't.

Yo Jim, et al:

Toluene is an "arene," AKA, aromatic hydrocarbon. Its formula is C7H8.
Along w/ its excellent solvent properties, it also has a fairly high octane
rating (124 research, 112 motor) and good specific energy (approx. 40 MJ/kg
versus 45 MJ/kg for normal heptane, which is the predominant ingredient in
gasoline).

Because of its desirable octane-enhancing properties, toluene is used in
almost all gasoline blends. In fact, it is usually one of the major
components of gasoline.

In the US, the EPA restricts toluene content in gasoline to 20% (by weight)
or less. Thus, your normal gasoline may be up to 20% toluene. In some
other countries, the gasoline blend consists of up to 50% toluene.

For more information on gasoline and its components, check out the
following web site:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/autos/gasoline-faq/.html

As for the magic ingredient in fuel injector cleaners, it must be something
else.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:50:17 -0700
From: "Posluszny, Walt (POSL)"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: Fuel Injector Cleaner

I can tell you unequivocally that Techron has quite a bit more
'stuff' in it then just Toluene. Toluene is also a normal component of
gasoline. Walt
-----------------------------------------------------
> Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Fuel injector cleaner
>
> Dont flame me here but instead of injector cleaner I just used a pint of
> tolune, you can purchase it at a paint supply store, but it is what the
> main ingredients of injetcor cleaner has but it is a little more
> effective.
> Be very careful, the stuff is very flameable and can ruin your paint if
> you
> spill it and dont rinse imediatly.
>
> John
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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:42:48 -0700
From: cassis
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - RE: Fuel Injector Cleaner

I understand that, and I originaly requested that you look at the contense
of injector cleaner and make a note that one of the major components of it
is tolune. Try it out, it works - no b.s. it does work. I understand being
a little skeptical but give it break, just because you've never tried
doesnt mean it's not a viable alternative to "fuel injector cleaner".

John Cassis
93' STX 4x4 3.0/5-speed

- -----Original Message-----
From:Posluszny, Walt (POSL) [SMTP:POSL mssite01.ion.chevron.com]
Sent:Tuesday, July 07, 1998 10:50 AM
To:'80-96-list ford-trucks.com'
Subject:FTE 80-96 - RE: Fuel Injector Cleaner

I can tell you unequivocally that Techron has quite a bit more
'stuff' in it then just Toluene. Toluene is also a normal component of
gasoline. Walt
-----------------------------------------------------
> Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Fuel injector cleaner
>
> Dont flame me here but instead of injector cleaner I just used a pint of
> tolune, you can purchase it at a paint supply store, but it is what the
> main ingredients of injetcor cleaner has but it is a little more
> effective.
> Be very careful, the stuff is very flameable and can ruin your paint if
> you
> spill it and dont rinse imediatly.
>
> John
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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:07:32 -0700
From: "Posluszny, Walt (POSL)"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE:84 bad mileage

Rob, I have an 85 f-150, reg. cab, 351 2-bbl, 4wd, 4 spd manual
o.d., w a/c 3.50 and I get 13.4 mpg combined driving. Mostly rural driving.
My truck has a feedback carb and an O2 sensor. How many miles do you have
on your rig? and do you do alot of city driving? Walt
==============================================
> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 20:24:50 -0500
> Subject: a question about 1984 f150
>
> I just boght a 1984 f-150 ext cab 351 2barrel, 2 wdr 3sp auto wa/c 3.50
> rear end and have replaced the entire ignition module, cap, rotor, plugs,
> had the carb rebuilt, new fuel filter yet still get terrible mileage~8
> mpg.....any ideas...does this have an O2 sensor or anything like that.?
>
> Rob
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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:18:49 -0700
From: "Posluszny, Walt (POSL)"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: 5 speed available in 1998...

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 19:52:54 -0700
Thanks Bob,

you confirmed it, no 5-speed Man in 1985, 1988 saw the first 5 spd
in ford rigs. Walt

=============================
From: Robert Kennedy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - RE: 5 Speed in 1985?

>From the Haynes manual 80-94 F-150 & Bronco
Page 7A-2;

Many manually shifted transmissions have been available for F-series
and
Bronco vehicles over the years. From 80 to 87 these include the Ford
3.03
3-speed, the Warner T-18 & T-19 4-speed(s), the NP 435 4-speed, the
single
rail 4-speed overdrive (SROD) and the top mounted shifter 4-speed
overdrive
(TOD). [1988 saw the Mazda M5OD 5-speed, the S5-42 ZF 5-speed light
& heavy
duty.]

There's more, I can copy the whole chapter and fax it to you if you
wish...

my .02

Bob



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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:05:56 -0400
From: troyw mfi.net (Troy Williams)
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - RE:84 bad mileage

On 7 Jul 98, at 15:07, Posluszny, Walt (POSL) wrote:

> Rob, I have an 85 f-150, reg. cab, 351 2-bbl, 4wd, 4 spd manual
>o.d., w a/c 3.50 and I get 13.4 mpg combined driving. Mostly rural
>driving. My truck has a feedback carb and an O2 sensor. How many miles do
>you have on your rig? and do you do alot of city driving? Walt
I do very little city driving, but then there are times that I might still
go through. I've got an '84 F-150, 2wd, 2barrel carb, auto, and it
gets around 13 MPG. Not the greatest, but then it was a lot worse
'fore I had the carbuerator overhauled.

You might be a redneck if... Your car alarm eats dog food.
- Jeff Foxworthy


Troy Williams
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://countrycorner.home.ml.org
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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:47:41 -0500
From: "Rob Sartorius"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - HOW DO YOU TEST THE O2 SENSOR

DOES ANYONE KNOW THE SPECS TO TEST AN o2 SENSOR FOR A 1984 F150 351
2BARRELL.....

I AM STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO INCREASE MY GAS MILEAGE IN MY 1984
F150 351 ...ANY HELP WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED....

ROB
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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:34:58 EDT
From: Mezd aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 1987 F-350 diesel oil pan

Does anyone know if I can interchage a 1986 International 1600 series diesel
(6.9)
oil pan for mine, mine leaks.

mezs aol.com
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Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 21:21:57 -0500
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Timing Pinging

David-
Back off on the timing if you have to, but don't push the fuel injection
pressure up or your mpg will go way down and any savings from being able to
run regular gas will be lost.

Does this engine have a knock sensor? If so, it may be malfunctioning and
letting the computer advance the spark too far (up to the factory pre-set
maximum, which will probably knock like crazy).

Check it out.

You wrote:
"I have a 1989 460 gas engine and unless I use the mid-grade (or even high
octane premium on really hot days) the engines pings. At 10 - 12 mpg this
adds a lot of money to the fuel bill.

Anyone have a fix? Will adjusting timing or adjusting the fuel injection
make a difference?

I figure I can put more fuel in the engine by using an adjustable fuel
pressure regulator and bumpimg the pressure up a few pounds."

Jim Cannon
Houston, TX

"I have a simple philosophy: fill what's empty,
empty what's full and scratch where it itches."
---Alice Roosevelt Longworth---
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Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:41:31 -0500
From: JJ/Rae
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Anti SUV Survey

Go to http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.suv.org/index.html and take the survey. This is anti
SUV and
needs to be told the truth.

JJ

- --
ICQ # 14108174
The Lacedemonians are not wont to ask how many the enemy are, but where
they are.
1997 F-250HD XLT Powerstroke Diesel 4x4, SC, SB, 5sp, 4.10,
Raider Vagabond Topper,Smittybuilt Sure-Step Nurf Bars,
285/75R16 BFG/MT's, K&N Filter, Lund bug deflector,
http://www.ford-trucks.com/pictorial/big/1997_f250_1.html
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.abol.com/users/jlester/photos/f25023.jpg


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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:16:18 -0700
From: Ralph Lindberg & Ellen Winnie
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Anti SUV Survey

>Go to http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.suv.org/index.html and take the survey. This is anti
>SUV and needs to be told the truth.

Can you disput the facts (as presented in the site)?

Ralph Lindberg N7BSN ICQ 5988954
RV and Camping FAQ
Just because MS-Window's holds 90% of the market doesn't mean it's
superior. Remember 90% of all animals are insects.




Ralph Lindberg N7BSN e-mail to rlindber kendaco.telebyte.net
RV and Camping FAQ
They call it "Sur'n the Net" 'cause you can wipe out so easy

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Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 02:37:02 -0500
From: Ezekial
Subject: FTE 80-96 - 302 timing

Someone I talked to said you could advance the timing on a 88 302 to....

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