80-96-list-digest Friday, June 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 201



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure
Re[2]: FTE 80-96 - 5.8 mods.....
FTE 80-96 - AC/Heat-kills engine
Re: FTE 80-96 - I-6 300
FTE 80-96 - battery gage
RE: FTE 80-96 - AC/Heat-kills engine
FTE 80-96 - "I6 pulling advice"
Re: FTE 80-96 - 82 F250 4x4 problems
RE: FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure
FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure
Re: FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure
Re: FTE 80-96 - 300I-6 Performance - Why???
Re: FTE 80-96 - Helms - where to buy?
Re: FTE 80-96 - 5.8 mods.....
Re: FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure
[none]
FTE 80-96 - RE: 2nd Cat
Re: FTE 80-96 - Catalytic converter
Re: FTE 80-96 - AC/Heat-kills engine
Re: FTE 80-96 - 5.8 mods.....

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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 06:46:20 -0400
From: Chris Hedemark
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure

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Friday, 5 June 98, Chris Hedemark wrote:

> I have an 88 F350 4x4 that the oil pressure gauge reads on the lower third
> or the gauge. It is above the 2 hash marks on the low side but usually
> sits between the first hash mark and the middle. Is this normal for a 351?
> The truck has 25,000 miles on it. I am thinkin' of swapping in a new oil
> pump and thought I could do it by just dropping the oil pan and putting in
> the new pump in but the Haynes manual says I have to loosen up the motor
> mounts and jack the engine up a little. It looks like I have plenty of
> room to do the job without having to jack the engine up since the truck is
> a F350 4x4. Anyone ever done this or offer any advice? One last thing, is
> the 351 in my truck a Windsor or Cleveland? It is the stock motor and is
> fuel injected if that helps.

You know I get the same thing on my F250. Sometimes the OP is nice
and strong, just cruising around town. But I get up to highway speeds
for more than a minute or two and the pressure drops down just below
the N in NORMAL. Now I know it has to REV (3000 RPM) to stay at
highway speeds but.... well.... what the &*&# is wrong with the oil
pressure? :-/ Mine is a 5.0 EFI, FWIW.

Chris mailto:chris yonderway.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com
1987 Ford F250 5.0L 2WD "Ugly Truckling" aka "Optimus Primer"

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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 06:54:06 -0400
From: Chris Hedemark
Subject: Re[2]: FTE 80-96 - 5.8 mods.....

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Friday, 5 June 98, Chris Hedemark wrote:

> As far as the pretty thing goes, if your looking for pretty I suggest going back
> to the saleen.

My SO can't imagine why I went from a beautiful 1996 Mustang GT to a
1987 F250. Ha! She should have been with me when I had to get 1000
pounds of sand last week... or next week when I have to get 1000 lbs
of stone for the driveway...

> Use your Bronco as intended, not as a pretty "SHOW"(meaning waste of money if
> spent on a 4x4) truck. Pretty causes the owner to not want to mess it up by
> getting scratches in the truck
> wich effectivly nulls the point of owning a 4x4...

I'd hate to say it, and boy am I gonna catch it I think, but over the
years the Bronco has become a "pretty thing". The family's 1989
Bronco was the last year that I can think of that was still a "tough
truck". We traded that in on a 1994 and boy is this thing a
creampuff. Power everything. Even the transfer case is pushbutton
(big mistake). So a couple of weeks go, I had to get back on the land
(sorta inaccessible right now) and hit the button. Heard a thunk,
figured it was in, and started going. Got stuck right away. Yep,
those front wheels aren't doing anything. 4WD was *not* engaged.
Tried it a few times. Even read the owner's manual to see if I was
doing anything wrong. Nothing doing, this thing is BROKE. POS Bronco
can't even shift into 4WD. Meanwhile my 87 F250 POS ugly truckling
went around it and got back there with only 2WD, rubbed against some
downed tree branches and added a couple of scratches to the collection
(who cares?), and got my work done.

The Bronco, which didn't even get off the street, went home with a
broken air dam and boy did I catch hell from mother for that (it's her
truck).

Tell me, is this an isolated incident, or have other people had
tremendous difficulties and frustrations with "pushbutton 4wd"?


Chris mailto:chris yonderway.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com
1987 Ford F250 5.0L 2WD "Ugly Truckling" aka "Optimus Primer"

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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:27:47 EDT
From: Croth2 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - AC/Heat-kills engine

Whenever I turn on the heat or the AC in my 89 f-1504x4 5.0 the engine will
die. Sometimes it will idle really high and then die. When I'm driving with
it on, it works fine until I come to a stop and it always kills. It's not a
problem when its on vent. Anybody have any ideas?? I'm tired of keeping my
foot on the gas at stoplights and stop signs. Thanks---> Tim
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Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 07:41:55 -0500
From: "Rick Wojciechowski"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - I-6 300

Mason D wrote:

> I have a 86 F-150 with a I-6 in it. I just bought it for $300, and it
> looks like the guy didn't take to good of care with it. This is my first
> vehical. There is a sound comming from the carburetor area. It sounds
> like a vacuum hose or something. I checked everything, and no holes. Is
> this normal? Another thing, where can I get a schematic? It looks like
> I'm gonna have to rewire some of it.

Mason,
What I would do is buy a 3' long plastic(5/8") tube and put one end at
your ear and the other end around where you here the vacuum(while
truck is running), and try to isolate where it is coming from. No you
should not here vacuum. Also, what you probably aught to do is check
the carburator mounting bolts(4 of them) at the base. Make sure they
are snug. If you do not have a torque wrench with the specs then just take
your
rachet and snug them up. The gasket under the carburator might
also be shot. Anyways, try the tube trick, and check your carb mounting
bolts.

- --
Thanks,
Rick Wojo
'83 Fsize BRONCO,Stock I-6,"The BROWN BULL",33x12.5x15-Mud Blasters
'92 Mstng 5.0L
'95 eclipse-Wife's(For Sale)


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Date: 5 Jun 98 08:28:36 -0500
From: "Todd Johnston"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - battery gage

Hi everyone
I hope everyone has a good weekend. I have been having a problem
with my battery gage and was wondering if someone could give me some ideas.
I have an 88 Bronco with a 302EFI. The battery gage is the one with
the #8 on one side and the #18 on the other side and some lines in between.
The problem is that it has a tendency to jump around. Seem like it is only
when i start up though. Sometimes it will read at normal and then other times it
will read between 16 and 18. The battery is brand new. If anyone has some ideas
it would be greatly appreciated. I hope it is not a serious problem.
Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
Todd Johnston
Big Bronco Bustin
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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:04:15 -0500
From: "SFC D"
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - AC/Heat-kills engine

sounds like a vacume line problem. Have you check for leaks in
all your vacume lines?
>
> Whenever I turn on the heat or the AC in my 89
> f-1504x4 5.0 the engine will
> die. Sometimes it will idle really high and then die.
> When I'm driving with
> it on, it works fine until I come to a stop and it
> always kills. It's not a
> problem when its on vent. Anybody have any ideas??
> I'm tired of keeping my
> foot on the gas at stoplights and stop signs.

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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:39:10 -0500
From: m-sands juno.com (mike sands)
Subject: FTE 80-96 - "I6 pulling advice"

I'm getting ready to pull a 20' cargo trailer on a 1000 mile trip with a
92 F-150 equipped with a 300 I-6 and E40D automatic. Any advice would be
greatly appreciated. By the way, my first Ford truck was a 74 F-250 2WD
which had a 390 CID and Holley 4 barrel carb. I ran the wheels off of it
and traded it on the 92 I have right now. At the time I was dealing on
the 92 I thought I had to have a V8. After test driving the I6 and 302, I
decided to save the $2000.00 it would cost me to order a truck with the
302 and go with the 300. I have'nt been dissappointed although I do miss
the kick of that 390 at times. Thanks

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Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 09:50:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: STHIBODE spf.fairchildsemi.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 82 F250 4x4 problems

Remember the simple things first...lubricate your transfer case shifting
linkages, they accumulate alot of crud over the years and get forgotten.
My latest aquisition 85 F250 w/borg warner transfer case shifted hard
enough that I pulled the transfer case shifter knob from the stick. Lubed
the linkages up good, especially the large bolt that supports the shifter
and it works great, two finger shifting from 2hi to 4 hi on the fly.
Of the New Process 208 cases I've had I've run into similar problems that
have been fixed by lubrication only and others that required the surgery
with new forks, pads, and the whole 9 yards....

my 2 cents...
Steve Thibodeau
86 F150 xlt lariat
85 F250 4x4 tug 351 h.o.
80 Bronco 35's 351w
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Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 09:01:31 -0500
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure

Pat-
Before I would mess with the oil pump, I would get the pressure
confirmed with a real mechanical guage. These Ford "guages" should be
called "indicators" (i.e. temperature indicator, fuel level indicator,
oil pressure indicator) because they are of very cheap design and not
really all that accurate on an absolute scale. They are ok on a relative
scale.

For example, at a lot less cost I would replace the oil pressure sender
unit. It might be gunked up inside and not indicating properly. Swap it
out and the pressure indicated may jump up.

After confirming with a real guage what your pressure is, then decide if
you need to change out the pump. It sounds early to me for needing a new
pump.

How accurate do you think the fuel and temperature indicators are? When
you fill up the tank(s), does the fuel needle go past the Full line a
bit? Does the Temp indicator seem to always read low? (In Alaska, I'll
bet it does!) Anyway, if they seem to read low, then your instrument
voltage regulator (IVR) may need to be adjusted a bit or replaced. When
that is done, the oil pressure indicator may go up more to where you
think it belongs. (Most people don't know that the IVR is adjustable.)

Good luck. Feel free to reply with further quwstions.
Jim.

Pat wrote:
"I have an 88 F350 4x4 that the oil pressure gauge reads on the lower
third
or the gauge. It is above the 2 hash marks on the low side but usually
sits between the first hash mark and the middle. Is this normal for a
351?
The truck has 25,000 miles on it. I am thinkin' of swapping in a new
oil
pump and thought I could do it by just dropping the oil pan and putting
in
the new pump..."
- --

Jim Cannon
Houston, Texas

Listen to "Car Talk" on National Public Radio
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.msn.cartalk.com/
"Celebrating 10 Years of Bad Car Advice"
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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:01:42 -0600
From: "Smeins, Larry"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure

Low oil pressure is a little strange on an engine with only 25,000 miles
on it. Before changing the oil pump check the actual pressure with a
good calibrated mechanical gauge. My guess is the gauge in your truck
just reads low, engine is all right.

Larry

>I have an 88 F350 4x4 that the oil pressure gauge reads on the lower
third
>or the gauge. It is above the 2 hash marks on the low side but usually
>sits between the first hash mark and the middle. Is this normal for a
351?
>The truck has 25,000 miles on it. I am thinkin' of swapping in a new
oil
>pump and thought I could do it by just dropping the oil pan and putting
in
>the new pump in but the Haynes manual says I have to loosen up the
motor
>mounts and jack the engine up a little. It looks like I have plenty of
>room to do the job without having to jack the engine up since the truck
is
>a F350 4x4. Anyone ever done this or offer any advice? One last
thing, is
>the 351 in my truck a Windsor or Cleveland? It is the stock motor and
is
>fuel injected if that helps.
>Thanks
>Pat Daniels
>Kodiak, Alaska

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 10:05:05 -0400
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure

Do you have an aftermarket gauge and sender? Ford's factory oil gauges are actually
idiot gauges. They have two positions, 0 and some place near middle. The sending
unit is just a typical on/off idiot light sending unit. What a bite, right?

Chad

pat daniels wrote:
>
> I have an 88 F350 4x4 that the oil pressure gauge reads on the lower third
> or the gauge. It is above the 2 hash marks on the low side but usually
> sits between the first hash mark and the middle. Is this normal for a 351?
> The truck has 25,000 miles on it. I am thinkin' of swapping in a new oil
> pump and thought I could do it by just dropping the oil pan and putting in
> the new pump in but the Haynes manual says I have to loosen up the motor
> mounts and jack the engine up a little. It looks like I have plenty of
> room to do the job without having to jack the engine up since the truck is
> a F350 4x4. Anyone ever done this or offer any advice? One last thing, is
> the 351 in my truck a Windsor or Cleveland? It is the stock motor and is
> fuel injected if that helps.
> Thanks
> Pat Daniels
> Kodiak, Alaska
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 10:16:25 -0400
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 300I-6 Performance - Why???

Usually when you go that far to prove a point it's called lack of confidence.

Ryan Dorman wrote:
>
> Almost as red as the face of the bowtie owner who's truck I drug around a parking
> lot backwards for 5 minutes because I felt the need to add insult to injury (
> bumper to bumper pulling contest ) and because I could. Or perhaps the pimple
> covered face of the twit with a bug that thought it could outdig a F-150 4x4 (my
> best friend purposefully added 4 inches of mud to the bug when he pulled it out
> just to make the point perfectly clear. Some would call it testosterone, I call
> it confidence in the knowledge that FORD RULES!!!
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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 7:19:11 -0800
From: callah S1.hninc.com
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Helms - where to buy?

>>Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 00:25:32 -0700
>>From: Randy
>>Subject: FTE 80-96 - Helms - where to buy?
>>
>>
>>I've seen alot of you guys praising the Helms manuals on the list and
>>was wondering were to purchase them. You guys better be right about
>>the amount of money being worth it. :)
>>Later,
>>Randy (Brew)
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>>=======================================================================
>>
>>

Go to: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.helminc.com/


Gary Callahan
'81 F-150 Custom 4x4
(300cid I-6 w/4-Speed)

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Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 09:04:05 -0500
From: "David J. Baldwin"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 5.8 mods.....

Chris Hedemark wrote:

> Tell me, is this an isolated incident, or have other people had
> tremendous difficulties and frustrations with "pushbutton 4wd"?

You're right. It's crap!

- --
Best Regards,

Dave Baldwin
Dallas, TX
- --------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:58:16 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure

>From: "pat daniels"
>Subject: FTE 80-96 - Low oil pressure
>
>I have an 88 F350 4x4 that the oil pressure gauge reads
>on the lower third or the gauge. It is above the 2 hash marks
>
Yo Pat:

Factory instrument panel oil gauges are barely more informative than an
idiot light. The only useful information you can gather from the factory
gauge is if you've noticed a recent *dramatic* change in the oil pressure
as indicated by the gauge. Otherwise, if it's not on the bottom Low end of
the gauge, you're probably ok.

I would recommend connecting a decent quality mechanical oil gauge, if you
really want to know what your engine's oil pressure is.

>One last thing, is the 351 in my truck a Windsor or
>Cleveland? It is the stock motor and is fuel injected
> if that helps.

The 351 Cleveland was used from 1970 to 1974 (model years). The 351M
(cousin of the Cleveland) was used from 1975 to 1982. All 351 engines
built after 1982 are Windsors. The Windsor is a member of the 90-degree
small block family, which includes the 289/302/5.0L V8. The Windsor was
used from 1969 to 1997.

Long live the push rod!

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 12:21:43 -0400
From: cdunn2 utk.edu (Chris Dunn)
Subject: [none]

Stacy,
I put a 429 (Same block as 460) into a 82 F-150. The 429 also came from a
'70 Ford LTD. I had the same oil pan sump problem. First I tried to cut
the bottom half of the pan off, turn it 180 degrees where the sump was in
the rear, and weld the seam. Worked well but when the motor came up to
temperature, a pinhole would weep oil from it. I hated to built a motor
and have this oil leak so I replaced the oil pan with the correct truck
pan. I was unable to locate one in a junk yard so I got one from my
friendly Ford part man.
About the oil pump. No problem! The pump body is geometry similar from
the car to the truck. The only difference is the way that the pump-up tube
attaches to the pump body. On the cars, the pick-up tube pushes into the
pump where on the truck pump the pick-up tube has two bolts that retain it.
If you were to get a truck oil pump that is set-up for the bolt system and
get the truck pick-up, you should be fine. DON'T take chances with the
HEART of you motor! Without it your motor will die! When you get the
truck pick-up (from Ford) tube you will notice that it had provisions to
mount to the main cap bolt on your number three main bearing cap. You will
need a main bolt that has a 3/8 stud sticking up on the head of the bolt.
I simply welded a grade 8 bolt to the stud. I don't think I changed the
metallurgical properies of the main bolt enough to matter by welding on it
for that small amount of time.
The dip-stick is also not a major problem. Your new oil pan will have a
place in the drivers side for the dip-stick to be mounted. The dip-stick
housing will have a flare nut like nut on it to secure the housing to the
pan and the top of the housing has a arm that will go under one of your
exhaust manifold (hearer) bolts. Again DON'T take chances with your
ability to monitor the oil level! Bite the bullet and get the housing from
Ford.
Have you figures out you motor mounts? I have been down that road also!

Hope I helped,
Chris Dunn
95 F-250 4x4
429CJ, 4 speed


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:23:03 -0700
From: "Posluszny, Walt (posl)"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: 2nd Cat

Tim said :

From: Croth2 aol.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Catalytic converter

I'm thinking of replacing the exhaust on my 89 F-150 4x4 5.0 It looks like
it
has two catalytic converters. I want to take the rear one off. I'm not
sure
what this would do. I want to replace it with a Y pipe and run dual
mufflers
out the back. There are no sensors or wiring that run into that catalytic
converter and there are none behind it. Would this screw anything up? any
ideas??-->Tim========

Walt .02 :

My 85 has 2 cats. The 1st is a two-way cat (gets rid of HC and CO), the
second is a so called 3-way (HC, CO and NO). Yet it does perform an
emissions reduction function and shouldn't hurt performance if left on. By
the way, mine also has a honkin' big muffler after the two cats. I had the
same questions when I bought the truck in Oct. 84 and saw what looked like
three mufflers at the time. Only one is actually a muffler. A cat back
system for this rigs mounts aft of the 2nd cat. Hope this helps. Walt
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:26:07 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Catalytic converter

>From: Croth2 aol.com
>Subject: FTE 80-96 - Catalytic converter
>
>I'm thinking of replacing the exhaust on my 89 F-150
>4x4 5.0 It looks like it has two catalytic converters. I
>want to take the rear one off. I'm not sure what this
>would do. I want to replace it with a Y pipe and run
>dual mufflers out the back. There are no sensors or
>wiring that run into that catalytic converter and there
>are none behind it. Would this screw anything up?
>any ideas??-->Tim

Yo Tim:

That "second" converter IS the catalytic converter.

Your truck probably uses a system called a "3-way catalyst." That refers
to the 3 pollutants it is designed to reduce in tailpipe emissions:
nitrogen oxides (NOx), unburned hydrocarbons (HCs), and carbon monoxide
(CO).

The conventional 2-way cat (intended to reduce HCs and CO) requires air
injection to facilitate its operation. That's why your engine has a
Thermactor (Ford's name for them) air pump that blows fresh air into the
exhaust system. The third part of the 3-way cat system (NOx reduction)
must be placed in the exhaust gas stream before the air injection point, as
the added free O2 interferes w/ its operation. Therefore, your catalytic
converter system actually consists of two separate chambers, a
pre-converter (NOx) and a 2-way catalytic converter (HCs and CO). Both
devices are required for emissions legality, although, if your local area
does not inspect for these or sniff the tailpipe, you could probably get
away w/ removing them.

Air injection (from the Thermactor air pump) takes place between the
pre-converter chamber and the 2-way catalyst chamber. If your truck uses
this system, you should be able to see the small air injection pipe between
the two chambers on the exhaust pipe under your truck.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 11:52:43 -0500
From: "Rick Wojciechowski"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - AC/Heat-kills engine

Croth2 aol.com wrote:

> Whenever I turn on the heat or the AC in my 89 f-1504x4 5.0 the engine will
> die. Sometimes it will idle really high and then die. When I'm driving with
> it on, it works fine until I come to a stop and it always kills. It's not a
> problem when its on vent. Anybody have any ideas?? I'm tired of keeping my
> foot on the gas at stoplights and stop signs. Thanks---> Tim

Tim,
I would look/listen for a vacuum leak. Take a 3' section of tubing
(say 5/8" diameter) put it up to your ear and listen to the engine at idle.
Then turn on the A/C and see if you can detect a vacuum leak. This
may not be a full proof method, but then again your using a highly
technical instrument. :-)

- --
Thanks,
Rick Wojo
'83 Fsize BRONCO,Stock I-6,"The BROWN BULL",33x12.5x15-Mud Blasters
'92 Mstng 5.0L
'95 eclipse-Wife's(For Sale)


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 10:01:03 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - 5.8 mods.....

At 10:38 PM 6/4/98 -0600, you wrote:
>It will make a noticable improvement..
>
>As far as the pretty thing goes, if your looking for pretty I suggest
going back
>to the saleen.
> Use your Bronco as intended, not as a pretty "SHOW"(meaning waste of
money if
>spent on a 4x4) truck. Pretty causes the owner to not want to mess it up by
>getting scratches in the truck
>wich effectivly nulls the point of owning a 4x4...
>
>MillrBeer aol.com wrote:

I bought my Bronco II so I wouldn't have to worry about my ex-wife driving
around in the snow and ice during the Nebraska winters. It turned out that....


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