80-96-list-digest Wednesday, May 20 1998 Volume 02 : Number 179



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980-1996 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 80-96 - Re: Sway Bars
Re: FTE 80-96 - ADMIN: Milestone
FTE 80-96 - More sway bars
FTE 80-96 - RE: Sway Bar Bushings
FTE 80-96 - ADMIN: Another list vote
FTE 80-96 - Excursion
Re: FTE 80-96 - more 4X swaybar
RE: FTE 80-96 - More sway bars
Re: FTE 80-96 - more 4X swaybar
Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: GM quality (or lack thereof)
Re: FTE 80-96 - More sway bars
FTE 80-96 - Re: Sway bars, spring bushings
Re: FTE 80-96 - More sway bars
FTE 80-96 - Re: F-350 Monobeam popping
FTE 80-96 - Re: Have YOU flown a FORD...lately!?!
FTE 80-96 - Tranny Type
Re: FTE 80-96 - more 4X swaybar

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 06:27:18 -0800
From: "Casey Vandor"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Sway Bars

I think it could be the fact that I stuck with the 235/85 tires. Having the
33x12.5 might make it a little more stable? And it could be the fact that I
have always had them on then all of the sudden not having them was quite a
change.
Anybody with the 44IFS HD on 3/4 ton, when you park your truck and the
wheels are hard over, do you have a really big camber angle on them? I had
the front end alligned after the tires were put on, and it is within spec,
but it just seems like they really stick out there now (same size tire and
wheel :( as before)

Thanks
Casey

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:18:46 -0500
From: "David J. Baldwin"
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - ADMIN: Milestone

Ken Payne wrote:

> >Have YOU flown a FORD...lately!?!
> >
> >Bob
> >
>
> hmm.... actually Ford did made some planes in WWII!
>
> Ken

Right you are, Ken, and actually before WWII. The Ford Trimotor was a late
'20s to early '30s aircraft that was popular at the time. Was used by Adm.
Byrd in his polar expeditions, if I recall correctly.

If you or anyone else is interested in Ford history (and history in
general), take a trip up to Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village in
Dearborn, MI. Henry collected quite a lot of stuff: cars, airplanes,
locomotives, clocks, watches, glassware, furniture, etc. You can spend at
least two days going through it all.

- --
Best Regards,

Dave Baldwin
Dallas, TX
- --------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:03:59 -0700
From: Jon Berman
Subject: FTE 80-96 - More sway bars

Hello,
I just joined this list and read alot about the sway bar discussion but
have a couple questions also.

I've got a 1994 F-150, 2wd, shortbed. Has anyone ever ADDED a front
and/or rear sway bar on these vehicles (as the stock truck doesn't come
with them)? According to Ford, they do not make an "add-on" sway bar
kit, you need to buy all the parts separately. Well, I talked with one
of the nicest Ford parts guys ever for about 20 minutes, and we looked
at all the parts required to assemble just the front sway bar. It
amounted to over $350 just for the parts (and there's lots of little
parts)!!

1) Does anyone know if they make an aftermarket sway bar kit for less
money, and

2) I use my vehicle for commuting to work, mostly through canyons. It
spends 100% of the time on the pavement. For this kind of money, are
sway bars really worth it??

Thanks for any advice,
Jon
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:58:37 -0700
From: Steve Faust
Subject: FTE 80-96 - RE: Sway Bar Bushings

Casey wrote:
Thanks to all who have replied on the sway bars....Where can I get the
little bushings (other than the dealer unless I have too) The guys at
NAPA can't find them in their catalog, (they do have other sizes, but
not the size I have.)...


Casey: try a local Off-Road/performance shop if there is one you may
also want to try Energy Suspension (they are one of the leading
manufactures in the industry) their Hyper-Flex bushings have received a
lot of positive reviews. Here's their web site
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.energysuspension.com I'm planning on using a number of their
products on my truck.

Let us know what you find out.

Steve Faust
'88 F-250 4x4 Supercab
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:11:04 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 80-96 - ADMIN: Another list vote

As requested several times over the last few months, a vote
to start a performance oriented list has been added to the
voting center on the web site. This list would be for
discussion of performance, hot-rod and street-rod issues for
all years and models of Ford trucks. This list will be
dedicated to the pursuit of power!

Point your browser to the main web site and click on "voting".
Voting expires in two weeks. If passed, this new list would
be administered by list member Keith Srb, who has volunteered
to take on the job.

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:56:35 -0700
From: Sheldon Belinkoff
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Excursion

I've heard a lot of talk about the new Ford "Suburban fighter" called
the Excursion. Does anyone know where some pictures or information
about this new vehicle can be found on the web?
- --
Sheldon Belinkoff
belinkoff earthlink.net

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:50:03 -0700
From: Robert Kennedy
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - more 4X swaybar

I've got a 99 dollar one with 30 feet of 3/16" cable coming soon. Just to
throw in the back of the missus Bronco II
Ordered from DAMARK, I'll let you know after I get my hands (and the truck)
on it...

Bob


At 07:25 PM 5/18/98, you wrote:
>Ryan Dorman wrote:
>"You forgot up mountains, .....snip
>If your 4x4 lives on the pavement. 1st why is it a 4x4???, 2nd run swaybars
. I personally get by with a 2X, but often hanker for one of
>those portable winches that fit in your receiver. Any body ever owned one
>of those?
>Dave Lampert
>
>= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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>"unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the message body.
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>
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:14:37 -0500
From: Sean Winters
Subject: RE: FTE 80-96 - More sway bars

Two companies come to mind. JC Whitney and Performance Products. JC
Whitney's web site is under construction, but go to
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.performanceproducts.com and look around. If you can't find it
there, order one of their free catalogs from the web page; I've seen
them in the catalog.

Sean Winters
82 Stepside...now medium metallic charcoal (gray)!!!
Pictures coming soon.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jon Berman [mailto:jonb2 pipeline.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 11:04 AM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 80-96 - More sway bars


Hello,
I just joined this list and read alot about the sway bar discussion but
have a couple questions also.

I've got a 1994 F-150, 2wd, shortbed. Has anyone ever ADDED a front
and/or rear sway bar on these vehicles (as the stock truck doesn't come
with them)? According to Ford, they do not make an "add-on" sway bar
kit, you need to buy all the parts separately. Well, I talked with one
of the nicest Ford parts guys ever for about 20 minutes, and we looked
at all the parts required to assemble just the front sway bar. It
amounted to over $350 just for the parts (and there's lots of little
parts)!!

1) Does anyone know if they make an aftermarket sway bar kit for less
money, and

2) I use my vehicle for commuting to work, mostly through canyons. It
spends 100% of the time on the pavement. For this kind of money, are
sway bars really worth it??

Thanks for any advice,
Jon
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:38:55 -0600
From: Ryan Dorman
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - more 4X swaybar

Check out http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ramsey.com .. They have a winch for every need..

yhtlines surfari.net wrote:

> Ryan Dorman wrote:
> "You forgot up mountains, .....snip
> If your 4x4 lives on the pavement. 1st why is it a 4x4???, 2nd run swaybars
> they are intended for pavement pounders.... "
>
> I learned something from this discussion that a 4X owner can have the best
> of all worlds with kits that allow an owner to connect or disconnect the
> sway bars quickly ...(assumption here on my part). I agree that if you are
> going to use a truck on pavement at high way speeds, it is much more
> enjoyable with sway bars front and rear. And yes, certainly if you live on
> a farm on in the mountains with a rugged lifestyle, then a 4X is probably
> more of a requirement than at sea level. We use it for boat pulling,
> occasional mountain goating for fun, and for contractor type work. And
> since it belongs to my son, it fulfills certain, um, emotional needs that
> seem to be harbored by young men. For me it was a four speed in a light
> bodied V-8 car. I personally get by with a 2X, but often hanker for one of
> those portable winches that fit in your receiver. Any body ever owned one
> of those?
> Dave Lampert
>
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
> Send posts to: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the message body.
> =======================================================================



- --
KC7YPJ, Ryan Dorman
QTH: Victor ID, grid# DN431c
ICQ #3834602
kc7ypj pdt.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/5496


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:55:51 -0600
From: Ryan Dorman
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - Re: GM quality (or lack thereof)

And no matter what you do if plan on buying a 4x4, Don't buy GM!!!
A few years ago I bought a 77 suburban (room to haul my construction crew and
all our tools)
for $1500, It would climb just about any mountain that got in it's way. The
problem is it didn't get to climb very many mountains (always broke down).. 8
months $6500, 5 trannies, 4 transfer cases,several rear ends &
front axles with the eventual swap to 3/4 ton undercariage (to avoid any more
axle problems) later
It started in on tranny #6 and was immediatly sent down the road...
A year ago I bought an 85 Bronco that had been thouroughly raped for $1000, I
am presently using it as a daily driver, have put 40,000 miles on it, driven it
over every mountain I come accross, up and over the dreaded Teton Pass twice
dailly, and have put $500 into it since purchased ($400 was in initial repairs
at the time of purchase, the other $100 was for a starter and tune-up.) .... Do
the math and tell me wich one you would buy given the reliability factor....

The simple truth is that GM doesn't make a 4x4, they make tinfoil and try to
pass it off as a 4x4...

Ken Payne wrote:

> At 07:31 PM 5/18/98, you wrote:
> >Ken Payne wrote 'snippingly(!) in reply to young "h7819 rea-alp.com":
> >
> >"Buy the Silverado, and just wait... it'll only be a
> >matter of time because the trim starts falling about and
> >the body rattles."
> >
> >Ken is this true by experience? I'm doing a real life comparision test of a
> >GMC PU and an F150, both 95's. Both have their good and also less than
> >excellent points. I have found both to be excellent vehicles and love them
> >both. I've got friends with both, with lots of miles. I just don't hear
> >this from owners. I've owned mostly Fords (cars/trucks) in recent years and
> >have my own opinions of FOMOCO strong and weak points.
> >Dave Lampert
> >
>
> Not in GMC pickups, but in their autos. Camoros seem to develope
> rattles quickly, Cadillacs have nearly the lowest resale value in the
> industry and the lowest reliability rating (according to Edmunds).
> I've driven many Ford and GM rentals and I've always come away with
> the feeling that the GM interiors were cheap and tacky. The GMC
> pickup has really crappy looking molded plastic for the dash/instruments
> and it reminds me of the plastic they used in the 70s that starts to
> flake after a few years.
>
> I'm not the only one who feels this way, many on Fordnatics will
> back up my opinion. Its no coincidence that GM has been losing
> market share to Ford and Dodge for a long time. Both Ford and Dodge
> seem to have learned the quality lesson - the same can't be said about
> GM. I did a bunch of research on this and have some solid numbers
> comparing the Big 3 and the Japanese. If you're interested I can
> email it to you.
>
> Ken
>
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- --
KC7YPJ, Ryan Dorman
QTH: Victor ID, grid# DN431c
ICQ #3834602
kc7ypj pdt.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/5496


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:00:24 -0600
From: Ryan Dorman
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - More sway bars

If you must have sway bars (I would recomend them on a 2wd s/b), and don't
want to pay an arm and a leg for them. Hit your local junk yard, The sway
bar off the front of any 90-96 150 will bolt onto your truck (be it long
box or short box)... Much cheaper....

Jon Berman wrote:

> Hello,
> I just joined this list and read alot about the sway bar discussion but
> have a couple questions also.
>
> I've got a 1994 F-150, 2wd, shortbed. Has anyone ever ADDED a front
> and/or rear sway bar on these vehicles (as the stock truck doesn't come
> with them)? According to Ford, they do not make an "add-on" sway bar
> kit, you need to buy all the parts separately. Well, I talked with one
> of the nicest Ford parts guys ever for about 20 minutes, and we looked
> at all the parts required to assemble just the front sway bar. It
> amounted to over $350 just for the parts (and there's lots of little
> parts)!!
>
> 1) Does anyone know if they make an aftermarket sway bar kit for less
> money, and
>
> 2) I use my vehicle for commuting to work, mostly through canyons. It
> spends 100% of the time on the pavement. For this kind of money, are
> sway bars really worth it??
>
> Thanks for any advice,
> Jon
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
> Send posts to: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the message body.
> =======================================================================



- --
KC7YPJ, Ryan Dorman
QTH: Victor ID, grid# DN431c
ICQ #3834602
kc7ypj pdt.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/5496


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 06:54:54 -0300
From: sbest
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Sway bars, spring bushings

>From: "Casey Vandor"
> Thanks to all who have replied on the sway bars, I am glad I didn't get
>trigger happy and take em off completely. The roll is quite excessive
>without them on there. I think as long as I take my time and drive a
>little more cautiously I can go just as far into the woods as the other
>guys. (only been stuck once, and going slow would have prevented that) The
>next question is how do you change the two big bushings up front? Where can
>I get the little bushings (other than the dealer unless I have too) The guys
>at NAPA can't find them in their catolog, (they do have other sizes, but
>not the size I have.)
>
>Thanks
>Casey

Casey, I have just removed the front swaybar on my 1982 Bronco to
improve its off-road performance. It makes an immense difference in
extremely rugged terrain, especially with stock tires and open diffs.

I had reinstalled the front swaybar on my 1987 E350 van after converting
it to 4wd with a solid front axle. I was very disappointed with the off
road performance of it after all the work. It was continually lifting a
tire and getting stuck. I removed the front swaybar and softened up the
rear by removing a couple leaves. This completely improved the off-road
manners by a large factor. However it did diminish the Ferrarri like
handling (Ha!) that I was used to on the highway. The van (and Bronco)
are quite a bit more "floppy" on turns but the steady state cornering
ability is about the same. There is no danger of rollover in either
vehicle.

One thing to be careful of when removing the front swaybar is that
it was installed mainly to induce understeer when heavy rear springs
are being used. Removing the front bar could cause serious oversteer
if the rear springs are overly stiff.

About the bushings Casey, I like the EnergySuspensions polyurethane
bushings and have great luck with them in my van, but it is a 1978
style leaf spring suspension. Have a look at there web site
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.EnergySuspension.com (it is a guess) or email them to
see if they have your application.



Steve Best, Nova Scotia, sbest glinx.com
4 wheel drive van page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.glinx.com/users/sbest
Tire chains, camping gear, tools, Bronco and some shooting stuff too.

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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:28:31 -0600
From: Ryan Penner
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - More sway bars

Sean Winters wrote:
>
> Two companies come to mind. JC Whitney and Performance Products. JC
> Whitney's web site is under construction, but go to
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.performanceproducts.com and look around. If you can't find it
> there, order one of their free catalogs from the web page; I've seen
> them in the catalog.
>
> Sean Winters
> 82 Stepside...now medium metallic charcoal (gray)!!!
> Pictures coming soon.
>


That is not true about JC Whitney, there true web site is
www.jcwhineyusa.com
not www.jcwhitney.com. I have no idea what the later is, but my guess is
someone bought it and was asking to high of a price for it and Whitney
just
got one with usa in it or something.
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 18:39:56 -0500
From: "Jram"
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: F-350 Monobeam popping

Gerald and members,
There are spacers for the heavy duty 250 and 350 series that Ford has
made for the popping noise when turning on the monobeam suspension. They
fit between the tie road and spindle and keep it from twisting into the odd
positions that make it pop. I think it might be a TSB but I am not sure.
Also the tie rods could be worn out. But I have seen new tie rods make the
same noise you talk about and then install the spacers and the noise quits.
I dont know where you live but try a FOrd dealer if you have a good one. If
you need more E-mail me and I will see if I can get some more info for you
on the noise.
Jram
Jram swbell.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.swbell.net/jram


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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:30:50 -0500
From: Sven Setterdahl
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Re: Have YOU flown a FORD...lately!?!

> > hmm.... actually Ford did made some planes in WWII!
> >
> More like in the '20s and early '30s. Last I knew there was one still
> in service flying mail out to some islands in the Great Lakes. That was
> the Tri-Motor. And I guess you are right, they did build some during
> the war under other companies designs. Also built some aircraft engines
> then.
> Paul in Portland OR

They did build some of the bombers use in WWII. Ironically, bombers built by
Ford bombed Ford plants in Germany.

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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:33:40 -0400
From: Drue Overby
Subject: FTE 80-96 - Tranny Type

I got a question for ya...

I haven't had a chance to get real familiar with all the truck
components I have, so don't laugh when you read this... :)

I've got a '96 F-150 w/5.0L 302 Standard Cab Long Box Eddie Bauer
Edition... I was wondering what kind of transmission I have... the E4OD
or the 4R70W... Under the transmission column on the Safety Compliance
Label it's listed as "U". Could anyone tip me off as to which one I
have? Thanks!

Drue Overby

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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:45:21 -0600
From: Ryan Dorman
Subject: Re: FTE 80-96 - more 4X swaybar

Let me re-phrase that:: They have a winch,mounting hardware & accessories for
every need.
Plus ramsey winches actually work... They are pricey but when It becomes a life
and death
matter you will be glad you spent the extra $$$
I would recomend staying away from places like J(unk).C(learinghouse). Whitney as
they like to
sell factory seconds/rejects...

Ryan Dorman wrote:

> Check out http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ramsey.com .. They have a winch for every need..
>
> yhtlines surfari.net wrote:
>
> > Ryan Dorman wrote:
> > "You forgot up mountains, .....snip
> > If your 4x4 lives on the pavement. 1st why is it a 4x4???, 2nd run swaybars
> > they are intended for pavement pounders.... "
> >
> > I learned something from this discussion that a 4X owner can have the best
> > of all worlds with kits that allow an owner to connect or disconnect the
> > sway bars quickly ...(assumption here on my part). I agree that if you are
> > going to use a truck on pavement at high way speeds, it is much more
> > enjoyable with sway bars front and rear. And yes, certainly if you live on
> > a farm on in the mountains with a rugged lifestyle, then a 4X is probably
> > more of a requirement than at sea level. We use it for boat pulling,
> > occasional mountain goating for fun, and for contractor type work. And
> > since it belongs to my son, it fulfills certain, um, emotional needs that
> > seem to be harbored by young men. For me it was a four speed in a light
> > bodied V-8 car. I personally get by with a 2X, but often hanker for one of
> > those portable winches that fit in your receiver. Any body ever owned one
> > of those?
> > Dave Lampert
> >
> > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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