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Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 03:29:08 -0500 (EST)
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61-79-list Digest Fri, 16 Mar 2001 Volume: 2001  Issue: 086

In This Issue:
Re: Cleaning Parts  what's your favorite trick
Re: 385 series motors
Re: Q-jet/ 460
records software, timing for 351m (78)
Tonneau's and tailshaft's
Re: compressors and tire fillers
Q-jets on Fords
Re: Cleaning Parts  what's your favorite trick
Ford's dirty little secret ?
Re: Cleaning Parts  what's your favorite trick
Re: Diesel fuel
Re: Cleaning Parts  what's your favorite trick
Re: Mineral Spirits vs Fuel Oil
Re: Q-jet 460 Carbs / manifolds
Re: records software, timing for 351m (78)
Re: records software, timing for 351m (78)
Re: records software, timing for 351m (78)
Looking for Driveshaft
Re: Mineral Spirits vs Fuel Oil
Re: records software, timing for 351m (78)
Re: Mineral Spirits vs Fuel Oil
Re: Mineral Spirits vs Fuel Oil
Re: records software, timing for 351m (78)
Re: Mineral Spirits vs Fuel Oil
Re: Good Samaratins
Re: balance
Fastener Torque - was: ford plugs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:33:17 -0600
Subject: Re: compressors and tire fillers
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>


> I wouldn't worry about it, most that I have seen do not run a regulator or

Tire fill stations typically operate off of the cycling pressure of the
compressor. A filter will keep water out of your compressed air. If water is
a problem, use a filter designed to remove it. My portable systems that I
use to inflate tires and air shocks runs straight off of the tank. On the
gasoline powered unit, the engine runs continuously. It has a pop off valve
that cycles between 100 and 75 psi.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

From: "Richard Larsen" <richlars burgoyne.com>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Parts  what's your favorite trick
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:51:16 -0700


OK, I'm poised and ready to duck. ;-)  With all this talk of  the hazards of
most solvents, I have been surprised to see that nobody has mentioned some
of the newer water soluble cleaners.  I have always used mineral spirits,
but I have noticed that Harbor Freight has a solvent that is water soluble
stacked next to their parts washers.  I haven't tried any yet, but was
curious what those that have tried it thought of it.

Rich


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:53:38 -0800
From: dave Prasse <burgess4 gte.net>
Subject: Re: 385 series motors




Greg Schnakenberg wrote:

> The 87 up motors are not any good unless you just have to have EFI.  they
> have wimpy ports and are just generally weak performers.

I have a magazine article somewhere in my files(or is that piles ?  :-)
),
in which the engine builder ported a set of EFI heads and got them
flowing better than cast CJ heads . Said the exhaust port is much better
than the originals .

I'll see if I can find the article .

dave Prasse

> Greg S.
>
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:44:56 -0500
From: George Selby <gselby4x4 earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Q-jet/ 460


At 02:12 PM 3/16/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Are you sure they were Qjets?  Ford has it's own spread bore pattern which
>is not compatible with the Rochester, Holley or Thermoquad.  This is the
>most common 460 manifold but also the most useless for most of us who want
>to use after market carbs.  It is totally Ford proprietary and only the
>stock Ford carb will work with it.

I have a 73 and a 77 460, and they both have the Motorcraft 4300/4350 carb
(the one with the oddball pattern)  It is actually a Holley squarebore
pattern, but the secondaries stick out beyond the mounting studs,
precluding the use of a standard squarebore Holley as there will still be
two large air gaps between the manifold and the secondaries beside the
carb.  I kinda like the carb, because it has HUGE secondaries, and is
otherwise just like a 2100/2150 carb (uses the same jets and accel
pump.)  They get good mileage due to small primaries as long as you stay
out of the secondaries.  They are a pain to rebuild, however.  I have one
on my 82 Jeep Cherokee, got the carb and manifold off a 78, looks totally
factory and even has all the emission stuff plugged into the exact same
places on the manifold and carb.  It really woke up the Jeep when I
converted from a 2150 carb to a 4350.

Weiand makes an adaptor to fit a 4350 onto a squarebore manifold (its in
the PAW catalog,) so I have to believe that flipping this adaptor over will
allow a squarebore to work on the stock manifold.  They do this by using
longer studs and running them through the spacer and you bolt the whole
assembly down.  The typical square/spread adaptor will not work, as it uses
one set of bolts for the manifold, and another for the carb.


George Selby
70 F-100 Ranger XLT 400 C6
78 F-150 4x4 400 4 spd
86 Nissan 300ZX
92 Subaru Legacy Wagon AWD
gselby4x4 earthlink.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.usedcarsandparts.com


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:15:03 -0800 (PST)
From: kerry corey <fansong9 yahoo.com>
Subject: records software, timing for 351m (78)


Two seperate questions:
1. As I (gradually) rebuild my f-150, I need to find
an easy record keeping program to put $, dates, etc.
into. This will be helpful if somebody hits me and
wants to give me the proverbial $50 any "old vehicle"
is worth, or to explain to upscale neighbors that I
really wouldn't be better with a slightly newer
Hyundai as higher status and newer parts. Any thoughts
as to Access templates, shareware, etc? I'm sure I can
build one in Access but would rather find one
(probably better) ready made.

2. I have a 351m in a 1978 F-150. I believe the engine
is a replacement. 2bbl Motorcraft, Duraspark
electronic, AT, PS, no A/C, no cat, dual exhaust (no
headers) PCV valve and ONE vacuum line from
distributor port to intake manifold exist, lots of
bolt holes and capped off vacuum lines, no diagram
decals, 49 state. Any ideas as to a good timing start
point? I'm not concerned about emissions inspection,
etc., just a good running engine. It has never run
well since I got it, despite all the usual suspects
changed...plugs, wires, cap/rotor (many times), coil,
ign. module, carb, all filters, using good quality
parts, silicon grease, etc. THANKS!


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

From: "Desanto, Phillip" <pdesanto Cinergy.com>
Subject: Tonneau's and tailshaft's
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:07:19 -0500


<<  Well, I still have not decided what carb I should put on my F-350  >>

A few guys on here have tried Quadrajets with pretty good luck from what
they've said.
I'm gonna try one on my 351w, once I get it running. Those small primaries
look pretty good to me.
_____________________________________________________________________
<From: "Tim G" <oldfords blazenetme.net>
<Subject: Tonneau covers
<Does anybody know what brand the tonneau cover is that LMC has in their
current <catalog at the bottom of page 48? It's the velcro stepside shortbed
one for 51-72. I'd <like to look at one locally before ordering.

Tim, there's a place in KY that I got a catalog from. They specialize in
"classic" trucks and make both hard and soft covers. I'll dig it up when I
get home and post it Saturday.

______________________________________________________________________
>Subject: C-6 tailhousings
>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001
>Jeff writes:  >>Were the C6 tail housings different between cars and
trucks??<<
>NO!!!  On 2wd trucks and cars they are the same....................

The only CARS that I know of that are different, are the "big" T-Birds. I
have a C-6 at home from a 76 / 460, and it's got a big funky looking double
sided trans mount on it. The tailhousing actually sets "down" in a cradle
type mount. I assume the big Lincoln's of the same vintage are the same way.
??  Later, Phil  ( 64 F-100...still not done )














------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: compressors and tire fillers
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:12:48 -0800


I would not run any oilers etc. on that line but the line from the tank
should be sufficient.  There should be very little oil or water in there to
cause trouble if you drain your tank like you are supposed to.  I have
different drops for each application, one has a filter/dryer for paint,
another is open and another has the oil mist and water seperator.

Don't let Erik hear this but I cheat all the time and use the oil line on
tires.  I do agree with Erik on that issue though, just being lazy.

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> Do tire fillers need a filter/regulator, or can I safely hook the
> tire filler hose straight to a pipe drop?  System pressure on
> the unit is the usual 125 psi...
>
> --sean


------------------------------

From: "Desanto, Phillip" <pdesanto Cinergy.com>
Subject: Q-jets on Fords
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:13:46 -0500


That Q-jet in the mid 70's Ford's was a Carter built Quadrajet. I've seen em
on T-birds and Lincolns. I don't know if they were used on the LTD's or
not....probably.   Phil
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<<< I could have sworn mid-70's Lincoln's that had the 460's in them ran
Q-jet
carbs (dont' know if it was rochester or not) but I've come across at least
a half dozen Q-jet cast manifolds on ebay- one that I picked up with carb
and all for like $30 bucks.
Tony Marino


------------------------------

From: "Don Jones" <twistedhand hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Parts  what's your favorite trick
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:14:42


>
> > with all this talk of parts cleaner, I think we should all have a
> > moment of
> > silience and remember back to the good ole days before big brother
> > determined that VARSOL was bad for polywogs and newt darters!
> >

You cant get varsol there anymore??
It's still available here  in Canada.

I like using an alkaline- type cleaner.
It comes in  gallon jugs and you dilute it with water depending on the job
your doing.  Its an industrial cleaner but i have used it for parts and carb
cleaning with good success. I have even used it to remove old undercoating
and boiled  oil-fowled spark plugs in it.
since its mixed with water, there is no flammability problems.

Don Jones
1970 f-250 4x4 ~Fordzilla~







_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hotmail.com.


------------------------------

From: "Desanto, Phillip" <pdesanto Cinergy.com>
Subject: Ford's dirty little secret ?
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:21:45 -0500


Eric, can you buy or borrow a Q-jet base gasket and see if it matches your
intake?  The Carter Q-jet was a dead ringer for the Rochester.  But the Ford
spreadbore ( 4150 ?) is a whole different animal, and not a good choice
either. No aftermarket support at all.   Phil
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How do I know if I've got the proprietary Ford spread bore pattern or a
more standard spread bore pattern on my current 460 intake? I don't want to
buy a spread bore carb only to have it not fit cause its the Ford design.

------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Parts  what's your favorite trick
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:25:46 -0800


I am going to do what the EPA says is legal and heat my shop with it.  Waste
oil burners are legal for home shops and shops where all waste oil is
generated on the property as in oil changes etc. but not legal to ship in or
out except to a recycler.  I'm going to use my old garage 275 gal tank along
with fuel oil and simply dump waste oil in it.  The research I've done so
far actualy says you can even burn antifreeze this way but not from the
tank, you set it in a can inside the combustion chamber, the water
evaporates and the glycol burns....COOL! :-)  Been thinking about this a
long time but when the LP gas prices trippled this year that was the last
straw.  You can buy simple gravity kits for $250 or pump kits for $600 or
complete stove kits for a little more.  I already have the perfect oil/wood
stove I built myself and it will do the job very nicely.  The nice thing
about these is that you can also use them as an incinerator to burn the oil
out of the filters and then filters can go to the iron recyclers along with
old engines etc...

The method I was given by one source even allows for burning up water
soluable solutions, most of which are, in themselves, burnable.

One thing you absolutely can not burn though is gasoline or alchohol or low
flash mineral spirits etc. except in very small quantities and most say NONE
period.  I will do some more research on this before I say any more :-)

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> How do you guys dispose of these 'degreasing cocktails'?  I have
> a bucket of
> 'engine shampoo' and water in my garage now and it ain't going
> into my back
> yard.  I have a well and I'm not going to take the chance.
>
> Tom H.


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Diesel fuel
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:28:03 -0800


Yes and all the MSDS's also had a line which stated what kind of method
could ignite them.  Most said TCB or TTB or TBB or something like that which
I have no clue about but I'm familiar with this a little so didn't pay much
attention.

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> >IF diesel fuel is so flammable why do you need about 14 to 1
> compression to
> >burn it
>
> Remember that's to burn Diesel WITH NO SPARK AT ALL, it just
> injects and burns.
>
> George Selby


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Parts  what's your favorite trick
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:32:58 -0800


If this is a caustic material you better be careful about using it on carbs.
Aluminum is very chemically active and will be damaged by caustic materials
and acidic material too.  Some of these cleaner are primarily made of
Potassium Hydroxide or Sodium Hydroxide which are very chemically active.
Read the precautions on the jug before using them on aluminum parts.

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> I like using an alkaline- type cleaner.
> It comes in  gallon jugs and you dilute it with water depending
> on the job
> your doing.  Its an industrial cleaner but i have used it for
> parts and carb
> cleaning with good success.


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Mineral Spirits vs Fuel Oil
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:34:49 -0800


They were all compared to a base material, Butyl something or other.

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> Gary,
>  were there units for any of those numbers?  Without knowing what the unit
> is or what they're measuring it's hard to know if a large number
> is good or
> bad for what we are talking about.
>
> Tom H.


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Q-jet 460 Carbs / manifolds
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:57:35 -0800


Well, if it doesn't say quadrajet on the carb then........As far as I know
these are all Holley's of some kind and are quite obviously ford stock
items.  The Qjet is quite differnt in appearance and operation and has a
vacuum operated baffle on top of the secondaries which I've never seen on a
ford carb.  Don't know the actual pattern dimensions so can't really help
you with this but if you try to put any of the "other" spread bore types on
a ford manifold the difference will be obvious.  All other makes of spread
bores fit the Qjet pattern.

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> How do I know if I've got the proprietary Ford spread bore pattern or a
> more standard spread bore pattern on my current 460 intake?
>
> I don't want to buy a spread bore carb only to have it not fit cause its
> the Ford design.  I don't know what year my motor is since it was swapped
> in before I bought the truck.


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: records software, timing for 351m (78)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:04:22 -0800


I develop in Access and have an invoice program I'm fooling with but not
really suited for what you want to do.  I could probably build one pretty
quick if you give me a list of all the data parts you want to store and a
hint as to the relationship of each (Groupings) etc..

I'm developing in Access 2000 only at this point.  I tried to load 97 and
2000 on the same machine and that was a HUGE mistake! :-(  I'll have to
throw another puter together to run 97 I guess :-)

If you send me the list of data you want to keep track of I will try to
throw something together and mail it to you.  This one will be on me :-)

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> as to Access templates, shareware, etc? I'm sure I can
> build one in Access but would rather find one
> (probably better) ready made.


------------------------------

From: "Bill Beyer" <bbeyer pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: records software, timing for 351m (78)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:10:07 -0800

No wonder you're broke...;-)

/// Friends help you move...Real friends help you move bodies \\

----- Original Message -----
From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 6:04 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: records software, timing for 351m (78)


> If you send me the list of data you want to keep track of I will try to
> throw something together and mail it to you.  This one will be on me :-)
>
> --
> Happily Retired (but broke)
> Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
> 78 Bronco Loving, Gary




------------------------------

From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: Re: records software, timing for 351m (78)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:29:50 -0800 (PST)


> Two seperate questions:
> 1. As I (gradually) rebuild my f-150, I need to find
> an easy record keeping program to put $, dates, etc.
> into. This will be helpful if somebody hits me and
> wants to give me the proverbial $50 any "old vehicle"
> is worth, or to explain to upscale neighbors that I
> really wouldn't be better with a slightly newer
> Hyundai as higher status and newer parts. Any thoughts
> as to Access templates, shareware, etc? I'm sure I can
> build one in Access but would rather find one
> (probably better) ready made.

I keep records on my truck as an asset in Quicken.  That is why when
I say I have $8.5K into my truck so far I am not just pulling some
number out of thin air.

It is also really handy when you need to get something you bought
before but can't remember how much it cost or where you got it.


Mark in Southwest Washington
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacifier.com/~draco/Truck.html
--
'74 F-100 Ranger XLT 4x4


------------------------------

From: "John" <69crewcab delnet.nasdsl.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 101 21:20:12 EST
Subject: Looking for Driveshaft

Group

I'm looking for a rear driveshaft for a 69 F-250 CrewCab 4x4...
is there something else i can use or does it need to be from a crew cab ..I know my
wheelbase is 149 so i'm assuming that makes a difference.


------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" <flash1 alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Mineral Spirits vs Fuel Oil
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 22:00:55 -0500


If I were to haul this stuff in 55 gal drums I would feel safer with fuel
> oil
=========================================================
55 gallon drums
you oughta try hauling it by the tanker full of over 5000 gallons with no
baffles in the tank
gordon



------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: records software, timing for 351m (78)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:02:27 -0800


If you could see what I'm working on for Ford right now you would understand
that this little job is very small by comparison and won't take much time so
I can offer it as a friendly gesture and as a way to make someone else aware
of what can be done with this program.  You can hard code in "C" and make it
a little faster but it's a whole lot of work.  My biggest problem is keeping
up with Billy Bob's stupid, arbitrary syntax changes which require complete
over haul of the code every time they upgrade.  They keep eliminating code
that worked fine because they want the name to fit some new pattern they
dreamed up so you have to go through the whole thing and rename everyting or
change the spelling or add a dot to every instance etc..  That's what I'm
doing right now, overhauling code in an old version to work in 2000 which
systems will be downloading some bright Monday morning with little or no
warning so I kind of have a deadline but we don't know when it is.......

Throwing a form and a few tables together is a piece a cake, getting all the
code to do something elegant is a whole nuther smoke :-)  I've mulled over
the idea of doing this professionally but don't know if I want to mess up my
retirement:-)  No time for my trucks you see :-)

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> No wonder you're broke...;-)
>
> > If you send me the list of data you want to keep track of I will try to
> > throw something together and mail it to you.  This one will be on me :-)
> >
> > --
> > Happily Retired (but broke)
> > Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
> > 78 Bronco Loving, Gary


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Mineral Spirits vs Fuel Oil
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:07:51 -0800


I'd say I'd like the tank to be completely full in that case :-)  Let's see,
5000 gal at about 6.5#/gal is.....32500# or 17.25 tons and if it could slosh
around a little every time you turned a corner..........Ever try to haul two
large horses in a 1/2 ton (a real 1/2 ton) truck?  They get to singing to
themselves and weaving back and forth to the music, first one then the other
starts in and ..........Whoa Nellie!  Now throw a two horse trailer on back
and let them start and......

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> you oughta try hauling it by the tanker full of over 5000 gallons with no
> baffles in the tank
> gordon


------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" <flash1 alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Mineral Spirits vs Fuel Oil
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 22:16:09 -0500


I'd say I'd like the tank to be completely full in that case :-)  Let's see,
> 5000 gal at about 6.5#/gal is.....32500# or 17.25 tons
===================================================
try 8.5 lbs to a gallon for weight at least thats the way we have it figured
YES i have hauled livestock not horses tho try 6 full grown hosteins in a 1
1/2 ton old international harvestor truck had so much weight with them the
lug nuts all tried comming off of the wheels
gordon



------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: records software, timing for 351m (78)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:15:38 -0800


Replying to my own post (must be bored :-)))  The reason I began programming
was bordom then I realized that most programs I tried to use didn't do what
I wanted them to so I began programming data bases and now have settled on
Access since it comes with almost all Microslop business software and have
grown to like it except for the stupid code upgrade thing....

Ready made programs almost always require you to wade through a whole bunch
of useless menus to get to what you want and almost always require you to
enter data you don't care about as well.......enter the custom application
:-)

Ever fill out a web info page to get some info packet and find that the
"Business" name was a required field?  I just type in "Happily Retired" but
I shouldn't have to give them any more info than necessary to mail the
stupid packet......irritating :-(

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> > as to Access templates, shareware, etc? I'm sure I can
> > build one in Access but would rather find one
> > (probably better) ready made.


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Mineral Spirits vs Fuel Oil
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:26:32 -0800


I used to work on a farm truck that hauled sheep and one day we had to
replace a bunch of lugs because when this guy went to market it wasn't with
one little pig it was with 20-30 sheep packed in his little stake truck.
They do have limits :-)  He sheared off a bunch.  Don't recall if the wheels
actually fell off or not now, that was 38 years ago or so :-)  Escorts have
limits too.  I see kids using them for pickups and one I know lost his rear
wheel when all the lugs sheared off.

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> YES i have hauled livestock not horses tho try 6 full grown
> hosteins in a 1
> 1/2 ton old international harvestor truck had so much weight with them the
> lug nuts all tried comming off of the wheels
> gordon


------------------------------

From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" <tim-pam williams-net.com>
Subject: Re: Good Samaratins
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:46:35 -0500


I know what you are saying about Chevrolet(Cheap  Heap Every Valve Rattles
Oil Leaks Everytime  Too) O.k.-thats enough Chevy bashing. Everyone has
their preferance. I once worked on my Son-in -Laws  '91 chevy Blazer. The
steering column had come apart down inside where the  "tilt"  joint was.
What a nitemare that was. The bolts had backed themselves out & it came
apart at the joint. A body shop man had told me that this was a common
problem for them because for some reason they don't put any locktite on the
bolts from the factory. He said he has done many of them because of that. He
was nice enough to lend me his special tools for a day & we tore it apart
ourselves. needless to say-those bolts have lock-tite on them now. We
struggled with it & got it back together  & it works even. Neither one of us
had done it before.  saved him a bunch of money & we bothed learned
something from it. that was about 4 months ago,still working like a charm.
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith <a2jkeith gci.net>
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Date: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:07 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: Good Samaratins


>----------------------------------------------------------
>Hundreds of Ford licensed decals to put the finishing
>touch on your truck! Support FTE - Check out our store:
>http://www.motorhaven.com/
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>well, today I have had the distinct "honor" of working on a Chevrolet(Chews
>Heads Eats Valves Races Only Little Electric Trains) in the name of
>friendship. I tell ya, it was a most disgruteling thing, but let me tell
ya.
>Working on a doggone 92 Blazer, has really made me appreciate the ease of
>working on my 71 F250. The room I have to move around(high boy) and the
>simplicity of the wrench turning. My buddy called and told me a shop was
>trying to charge him $700.00+ to change out a fuel pump. Granted it is an
in
>tank pump but ya know, I really dislike the way that all these shops are
>really taking advantage of people. They seem to look for the average joe,
>who appears to be a sucker, and try to take them for a ride. Well, tell ya
>what, I have vented enough but let me tell ya something, Take time to help
>people out with their rigs, ofton times it will repay you in ways that you
>cant imagine. And a special thanks to Eric Marquez and Matt Schumacher
>(Schu) for all your help with my truck in the past, (and for that to come,
>hehehe, hint hint hint) No really guys, I appreciate all the help I get
from
>people on this list, you guys are lifesavers.
>Keith&Clifford
>71F250 4x4
>
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------------------------------

From: "rich" <richth exis.net>
Subject: Re: balance
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 00:30:59 -0500




> From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
If you loose any of the springs in
the clutch disk or pressure plate you can get some serious vibration

Remember all the clutch parts except the disk rotate with the engine even
when depressed.

78 Bronco Loving, Gary

I have just returned from a road trip (Aloha) and haven't read all my FTE
mail on this subject yet.  I have a couple of Ideas on your problem but will
wait to read all the answers to your question before I chime in.  I dont
think Gary is ever really wrong in his responces, but, like me, get's his
answers a little mixed up sometimes ;)  If the springs are loose in a clutch
disc, that is, if they are "jiggly" or have any play in them, your truck
wont even move. Or at the least, it will feel like a bad pressure plate; it
will slip like crazy just trying to take off from a stand still.  To be
honest, I dont know why, but I can guarantee you this, it wont cause a
vibration with the clutch pedal depressed and the clutch disc not rotating.
I dont think even a disloged 1/4 ounce spring from the clutch disk caught up
in the pressure plate would cause the vibration you describe considering the
rotating mass of the ballancer, crank, flywheel etc.  But, I'll await my
final opinion until I read all my FTE email.  Sorry Gary, you are such a
perfectionist, I just had to point this out :))  As to the loose clutch disk
springs, I have pulled 3 brand new clutches with this problem.  I replaced
just the disk, and everything was fine.  In advance, to answer the simple
questions, yes they were installed, aligned and adjusted correctly.  I could
never figure it out as to why.  Other mechanics I've talked to expierienced
this problem as well, mainly with remanufactured clutch disks.  I know what
the clutch springs function is SUPPOSED to be, being sandwitched between two
pieces of friction material seperated by a thin piece of metal.  But I cant
explain why loose springs would cause a clutch not to engage.  Any Ideas?

Rich


------------------------------

From: "rich" <richth exis.net>
Subject: Fastener Torque - was: ford plugs
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 02:40:47 -0500


>
> From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
> Subject: Re: Fastener Torque - was: ford plugs
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:37:11 -0800
>
>
> Retorquing requires that you loosen the bolt first then re-tighten it if
it
> doesn't move the first try

I have to question this.  Other than saying your wrong, I have never read or
heard of this statement.

The simple fact is that torque is a rough means to get the same "Tension" on
> all the bolts and must assume that all bolts will have the same resistance
> to turning in the threads

Correct, sorta.

I just have to say this.  I LOOVEE to hear the why as to how things work.  I
cant explain or dis explain why THE BOOK says to do this or that.  I can
tell you this, you go by your own expieriences with YOUR vehichles and try
to apply it across the the board to the average Customer, or Joe Shmoe, your
gonna get screwed someday!!  I can spend all day telling you stories of how
DUMB mechanic's got screwed over by listneing to a person who has 2 or 3
versions of a manufacturers product and can explain everything based on
comon sence and their expierience.  Heck, I'm probably guilty of the same
biased attitude))).  I guess you can consider "The Book" as an average of
the two extreems.  A stupid example here, front end alignement, Garys'
bronco calls for X number of degrees of Caster and Camber for the front end
Alignement.  This is based on a factory Bronco, averaging X number of
degrees slope from the center of the road to the side etc, which can vary
from state to state, county to county.  I'm guessing Ford based this
decision on an average wheight person in the drivers side AND a passenger in
the right side seat.  Well, guess what, lets say Gary weighs 290 and never
carries a passenger. I set up his Bronco to the factory alignement settings.
He claims his truck pulls to the left so I must not know what I'm doing.  Is
the book wrong?  For the average joe mechanic, the book can protect his A**.
Any problems arrise, he can point to the BOOK in his defence.   I have ran
in to this several times ( 230 lb woman in a volkswagon Rabbit ) Common
sence applies here.  Sorry for ranting here, must be that 5 hour time zone
difference from HI.  By the way, this re-torque issue has been over
engineered.  Does the book say re-torque the specified bolts/nuts hot or
cold.  Thats all ya gatta know!  DO NOT back them off!  I'm not saying that
it will hurt anything if you do, but that is not the intent from the
factory.  This does not apply to the newer cars and trucks in all
situations, BUT, as far as we are concerned with our older trucks, all I can
say is trust me, warm the sucker up and turn your torque wrench to the the
specified value. + or - 5 % of course ")))  Well, based on the length of
your extinsion add 5 lbs per 5 inch, right??, are you using a universial
adapter etc.. it's all relative.

> It's been brought up in previous discussions also that there is a
difference
> in oils too.  The spec calls for plain motor oil in all cases.  Graphite
> oils and other special oils will nullify the torque numbers required to
get
> the correct results.  I use anti-seize and don't worry about it's lube
> properties in most cases except when installing internal engine parts in
> which case I use the same oil that is going in the engine on every bolt or
> nut.  Again, the "Lightly" thing only has application where there is a
blind
> hole involved to prevent hydro locking before the bolt becomes tight on
it's
> own.  You could tighen a bolt and nut in a vat of oil and it would make no
> difference to the outcome once "some" oil is applied "Lightly" to the
> threads.

Even if your using vasoline, if the the treads are clean, is this even an
issue as far as torque is concerned? (not counting hydrolock here) Does the
difference in torque in a 3/8 hardned bolt and nut using "light 30wt" oil
vrs "STP Heavy" lubricant really warrant a different torque spec? Again, I'm
thinking as the average person on this list putting his first, 5th, 15th or
hypo motor together.  Thats why there is a variance in the specs, ALL specs.
Growing up, I tried everything from STP, vasoline, several weights of oil,
engine assembly lube, even cam assembly lube putting together motors, just
to see what may work better than the other.  Bottom line, if you build a
short block that is going to set for awhile, use a thick lube on the bearing
journals and stand it on end. If your going to build a motor and run it
soon, use your favorite brand of oil for the whole assembly.  Bolts and ....


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