Received: with LISTAR (v1.0.0; list 61-79-list); Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:43:00 -0500 (EST)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:43:00 -0500 (EST)
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To: 61-79-list digest users <listar ford-trucks.com>
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Subject: 61-79-list Digest V2001 #57
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------------------------------------
61-79-list Digest Wed, 21 Feb 2001 Volume: 2001  Issue: 057

In This Issue:
Re: brace on inside rear wall of cab
Re: Daytona 500
Re: Headers/Under hood Heat "FE Related"
Re: Headers/Under hood Heat "FE Related"
Re: Headers/Under hood Heat "FE Related"
Re: Headers/Under hood Heat "FE Related"
FW: List 'pre61-list' closed to public posts
HEADER WRAP.....AGAIN #! #%!#% #% #$ #$! $%
Re: Off topic, test
In Cab tank
Re: Headers/Under hood Heat "FE Related" -Stan's Headers-
Tire vibe and cab brace
Re: 9 inch questions
58 F350
Re: Tire vibe and cab brace
Re: Tire vibe and cab brace
Torsen's again, new insight (maybe :-))
Hans device and DE, was; daytona
Hans device and DE, was; daytona
was Hans device and DE,daytona, Now let's get a little pe
Re: was Hans device and DE,daytona, Now let's get a littl
Re: Hans device and DE, was; daytona

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:55:52 -0800
From: Greg <greg gregster.com>
Subject: Re: brace on inside rear wall of cab


On the trucks I have here, the ones without behind-the-seat tanks do not have the brace/mount, which is a thin channel iron that is welded in to hold the bolts for the tank. These trucks are '75 to '78 and IMO it would be safe to remove the mount. However, the early - mid '60s trucks could be different ... I dunno. Hope
this helps with your decision.

Greg

Garrett Nelson wrote:

> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Support FTE - Check out our store:
> http://www.motorhaven.com/
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Well, I think I am going to wait before I do this now, I'd like to see what anyone else has to say. My thoughts are that the vertical ribs on the back wall of the cab strengthen it and prevent flexing, as well as the design of the hole the rear window goes into. I will probably remove it but will wait for more opinions.
>
> Thanks guys.
>
> Garrett Nelson
> www.1966ford.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> What this means is that the mid and late 70s likely don't need a brace and
> that there is no way to tell for sure on a 60s era truck with the earlier
> cab style.
>
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.


------------------------------

From: WEDIVE247 aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:22:42 EST
Subject: Re: Daytona 500

In a message dated 2/20/2001 7:55:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
vhhuston switch.com writes:


> The reports I saw said that the safety gear wouldn't have done
> anything to save him. He was the last driver to wear an open helmet and he
> didn't wear a head/neck support. But, the doctor said it wouldn't have made
> a difference.
>
>     Virgil
>
> > Very true...The report I heard on the news this morning stated that he
> > refused to wear the safety equipment that probably would have saved his
> > life...My wife commented when she heard this that at least his death
> > would serve some purpose in warning others not to do the
> > same...Sometimes she's pretty darn smart...
> >
>

Did you all hear about the super-duper new helmet that sold like hot cakes
after the # 3 mishap ? I heard no one was interested before , but afterwards
the $ 6,000.oo price tag wasn't so bad . Foresight ?????



------------------------------

From: "Garrett Nelson" <garrettnelson writeme.com>
Subject: Re: Headers/Under hood Heat "FE Related"
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:05:05 -0800


I have done some research on this and the header heat wraps seem to be a hoax. They will cause your headers to rust away and disintegrate from getting so hot. The ceramic coatings such as Jet-Hot are the only way to go IMO if you want the headers to last. I am going to send in my brand new Heddman headers to them pretty soon to get coated. Go to http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jet-hot.com and request their free video for more info on the process.

If I would have known this beforehand I would have just bought a set of coated headers. Hookers are nice, Heddman seems to be good too.

Just my thoughts... I was previously planning on using the header wraps but I found out that they trap heat and will ruin your headers.. often the metal oxidizes/melts away leaving only the header wrap holding things together.


Garrett Nelson
www.1966ford.com



 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ken Schneider
 To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
 Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 1:45 PM
 Subject: [61-79-list] Headers/Under hood Heat "FE Related"


 ----------------------------------------------------------
 Support FTE - Check out our store:
 http://www.motorhaven.com/
 ----------------------------------------------------------

 List,

 I currently have a stock FE/C6 combo under the hood of my 68 F100 2wd.  When
 I bought the truck a few years ago, it came with some headers, and dual
 exhaust with turbo mufflers.  I am not sure of the brand of headers, but
 they seem to be some kind of medium/large tube headers.  Each exhaust port
 has a separate tube (obviously), but the weird part about these headers is
 that the exhaust port flanges are completely separate, they are not
 connected.  The only place that the headers are connected is the bottom.
 Matter of fact, My Dad and I had to cut individual gaskets with a dremel
 tool and gasket material because any stock Felpro offering, or Mr. Gasket
 offering for FE engines would not line up correctly with the headers.  The
 headers don't leak though, and they stay tight.  The only issue with these
 headers is the starter removal/installation of course, and the lack of
 available gaskets.

 I have an under hood heat issue,  I'm assuming it is coming from the
 headers, and not something else because my Dad's FE in his 70 F100 running
 stock manifolds is very cool (under hood temp that is).  Currently the
 starter is wrapped.  I wondering about the effectiveness of the header wraps
 are that are available, if anyone has used them, what were the results, etc,
 or If I am better off purchasing a set of ceramic coated headers, or another
 set of headers, and having them ceramic coated.  (also sources for ceramic
 coating, or factory ceramic coated headers would be helpful)

 Keep in mind that this is a non-salt month vehicle (April-November) and sees
 about 5000 miles a year.

 This truck has never had any overheating issues due to this problem, but
 does have the occasional hot start issue, probably due to the heat of the
 gas, or the non-dense air, I have no idea.

 Thanks for your time, suggestions, and bandwidth,

 Ken Schneider
 Coloma, MI (currently FSU in Big Rapids, MI)
 68 F100 Ranger 360/C6/3.25NL
 88 Crown Victoria 5.0/Mustang AOD



------------------------------

From: "Bill Beyer" <bbeyer pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Headers/Under hood Heat "FE Related"
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:37:25 -0800

I spoke with the guys at JetHot extensively as well as HP coatings so
consider the source but they told me in no uncertain terms that buying
coated headers from the factory, even Hookers, wasn't the best way to go.
Hooker sends their headers down to Mexico to get them coated and it's not a
terrific job. If you send your headers in to JetHot they'll coat them inside
& out for about $250. They also stock quite a few headers that they buy and
coat. I got a set of Hooker Super Comps from JetHot for less than a set of
the factory coated headers from Summit

/// Friends help you move...Real friends help you move bodies \\

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garrett Nelson" <garrettnelson writeme.com>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 6:05 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: Headers/Under hood Heat "FE Related"


> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Support FTE - Check out our store:
> http://www.motorhaven.com/
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> I have done some research on this and the header heat wraps seem to be a
hoax. They will cause your headers to rust away and disintegrate from
getting so hot. The ceramic coatings such as Jet-Hot are the only way to go
IMO if you want the headers to last. I am going to send in my brand new
Heddman headers to them pretty soon to get coated. Go to
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jet-hot.com and request their free video for more info on the
process.
>
> If I would have known this beforehand I would have just bought a set of
coated headers. Hookers are nice, Heddman seems to be good too.
>
> Just my thoughts... I was previously planning on using the header wraps
but I found out that they trap heat and will ruin your headers.. often the
metal oxidizes/melts away leaving only the header wrap holding things
together.




------------------------------

From: "John Webster" <jwebster tnt21.com>
Subject: Re: Headers/Under hood Heat "FE Related"
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:52:01 -0500


Header wrap does do some good; but, it's application is best suited for
racing and not the street. The ceramic coatings are the best bang for the
buck for a street vehicle. They reduce temp, and better yet because they
coat inside and out they reduce rust in your header (where it usually eats
it out) and keeps the flow up. You get good performance year after year. If
you wrap them it just traps the moisture and promotes rust outside. Good
Luck.
John
'77 F150 4X4 466/C6/4:11's/33's


> I have done some research on this and the header heat wraps seem to be a
hoax. They will cause your headers to rust away and disintegrate from
getting so hot. The ceramic coatings such as Jet-Hot are the only way to go
IMO if you want the headers to last. I am going to send in my brand new
Heddman headers to them pretty soon to get coated. Go to
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jet-hot.com and request their free video for more info on the
process.
>
> If I would have known this beforehand I would have just bought a set of
coated headers. Hookers are nice, Heddman seems to be good too.
>
> Just my thoughts... I was previously planning on using the header wraps
but I found out that they trap heat and will ruin your headers.. often the
metal oxidizes/melts away leaving only the header wrap holding things
together.
>



------------------------------

From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: Re: Headers/Under hood Heat "FE Related"
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:24:12 -0800 (PST)


Ken S. wrote:
> Each exhaust port has a separate tube (obviously), but the weird part
> about these headers is that the exhaust port flanges are completely
> separate, they are not connected.

In the mid '70's there was a company called Appliance that made a Cragar
wheel copy that was all steel.  They later started making headers that
had these individual flanges.  At the time there were people who advocated
hacksawing your flanges apart between each port which was supposed to
give you a better seal.  Today's thinking is just the opposite.  People
want thick, heavy flanges.

> Matter of fact, My Dad and I had to cut individual gaskets with a dremel
> tool and gasket material because any stock Felpro offering, or
> Mr. Gasket offering for FE engines would not line up correctly with the
> headers.

BTDT.  The Fel-Pro #1442 gaskets are make of some awesome material, but
the port sizes are too big and the bolt holes do not line up when the
gasket is centered on the port.  I cut them in half and punched out the
bolt holes so that I could line them up better.  I am looking into making
my own gaskets using dead soft aluminum like the Percy's collector
gaskets.  What did you use for gasket material?

> This truck has never had any overheating issues due to this problem, but
> does have the occasional hot start issue, probably due to the heat of
> the gas, or the non-dense air, I have no idea.

My headers are ceramic coated and I had a hot start problem.  There
was a lot of discussion on this list about solving it by using an
insulating spacer between the carb and manifold.  I recently installed
a 1" thick plastic insulator and my hot start problems went away.


Mark in Southwest Washington
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacifier.com/~draco/Truck.html
--
'74 F-100 Ranger XLT 4x4

------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: FW: List 'pre61-list' closed to public posts
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:53:01 -0800




Well, now aint this a nice can of worms!   Hope I get this one back, I just
wasted a couple very lengthy post due to this....:-(

How that address got in there I'll never know????

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server [mailto:listar ford-trucks.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 7:40 PM
> To: gpeters3 len-net.com
> Subject: List 'pre61-list' closed to public posts
>
>
> Your post to the Ford Truck Enthusiasts
> mailing list was rejected because your
> email address was not on the subscriber
> list.
>
>


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: HEADER WRAP.....AGAIN #! #%!#% #% #$ #$! $%
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:05:45 -0800

I hate ORBS, I hate ORBS, I ha......anyway, I tried to get my bronco mail by
cheating with an unprotected sit and Outlook is so stupid it doesn't realize
that when you set an account as a default it is supposed to be THE STINKING
DEFAULT!!!!  GRRRRRRRRr!

Anyway, I wrapped my headers several years ago and liked the looks and the
heat protection but, as they say rust may some day be an issue.  Haven't
seen any problems yet but it hasn't been run all that much either so still
waiting for them to fall off I guess :-)  Theoretically you can Paint, wrap,
dry and re-paint over the wrap to get a very good seal for the exterior
metal.  The interior should not rust if the engine is run often but the tape
certainly "could" concentrate enough heat in the area near the ports to
super heat the steel so that is is damaged I suppose (theoretically at
least).  It's a messy job, you get your hands all cut up and full of fiber
glass and those clips are murder.....they cut very deep and very easily so
be carefull!

If you plan to coat your headers I suggest you mock them up, do all the
bending and hammering you will need to do to get a perfect fit then send
them out but not before. The coating is very hard and brittle so will chip
and flake off if you bend or hammer on them.

I have start issues with both my truck and my bronco, they both have the
same 4 pole starter but the bronco has stock manifolds.  I still say it has
nothing to do with the starter but rather, the carb or fuel lines.....maybe
some day we'll know for sure when one or the other falls off, eh?

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--



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------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Off topic, test
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:25:38 -0800


Sorry, just had to find out if it works, please ignore.....

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--


------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: In Cab tank
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:25:54 -0600

John LaG. writes: >>  What was the last year for in cab gas tanks on Fords? <<

I have a '77 F250 4X4 that has incab tank.  I also have a '76 F350 2WD that was
sold as cab&chassis(now has a 14' flatbed - Farm truck) that has the incab tank.

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: "Ken Schneider" <fordemail sunsetcoast.com>
Subject: Re: Headers/Under hood Heat "FE Related" -Stan's Headers-
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:44:35 -0500


Okay, what about Stan's Headers? http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.stans-headers.com/   I don't
know what they are coated with, or anything about them really, but I seem to
remember the list talking about them a couple years ago as being the one
company that made a header that still allowed you to access the starter.  I
left them an email asking about various things, and will let the list  know
the outcome.

Any experiences with them anyone?

Thanks again for all responses,

Ken Schneider
Coloma, MI (currently FSU in Big Rapids, MI)
68 F100 Ranger 360/C6/3.25NL
88 Crown Victoria 5.0/Mustang AOD


------------------------------

From: "Gary L. Perry" <glperry fwi.com>
Subject: Tire vibe and cab brace
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 02:47:51 -0500

In the past I had a 71 Ranger that had manual steering. It was fine till about 50 and hit a bump (didn't even have to be big) and that would start the wheel hopping and sterring wheel jerking back and forth quickly, getting worse till I came to complete stop. The alignment shop told me I needed better shocks and balancing on tires to correct this common Ford problem. All the balancing and tire rotatiing did nothing. I bought good gas shocks and it was 80% better but never went away. I had talked to other guys that had problem and all had manual steering. Shop said bad mounting of steering box and frame cracking there could also be part of problem. Never fixed right, sold truck.
  On cab brace, I would never cut out such an item. You may get "oil-canning" noises from back panel when driving. Why not make a panel of 1/4" wood or maybe heavy card stock and carpet that and screw it too the braces? Should be able to make it meet up at the top brace or window area and look neat.

G L Perry


------------------------------

From: Aeroape82 aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:41:31 EST
Subject: Re: 9 inch questions

In a message dated 2/21/01 6:26:58 AM Central Standard Time, gpeters3 lni.net
writes:


> I "Might" take a chance on a rear wheel this way, one time to save a few
> bucks on the bearings if only the seal needed replacement, especially If I
> just put it on new and tore the seal when installing it but if this were on
> an aircraft or front wheels of a high speed vehicle or were on a bearing
> that had been in place for many miles I would not take the chance.  What
> part of your life or family's life will you trade for $40?
>
>

Definently agree with you here, Sorry not to be that clear a one time thing
only.  I would not suggest reusing a retainer continously, that would be
crazy.


Glenn  NY
78 F250  (talk about projects and headaches)



------------------------------

From: "Stephen Brown" <snoopy1 ford-trucks.net>
Subject: 58 F350
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 05:35:20 -0800

    I know this is a little off topic , buuuuut..... :-}

I found a 1958 F350 flatbed Vin#F35L8K17204 for sale at Goodwill (of all places)
they want $999 for it.  It looks stock, has a small dent  in the right front fender,
otherwise, it looks very well used but not in bad shape.
Oh, and it does run (not sure how well).

I prsonaly have never seen a 58 F350 untill now, Are they rare? Does anyone have an
idea of how much a truck (in desent shape) like this is worth ?

Stephen Brown

71' F250   "Baby"
68' F100  (project)
94' Ranger Supercab 4.0




------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Tire vibe and cab brace
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 04:13:06 -0800


That "Head Shake" I call it, is probably due to something loose in the
steering chain.  Typically is it something that controls the sideways
movement of the wheels such as the box itself or tie rods or drag link.
I've never seen ball joints or  king pins do this but linkage, cracked frame
as he says or seriously loose tie rod ends in a two wheel drive or track bar
in a 4 wheel drive etc..  In almost every case you can resolve this with a
steering damper if all else fails.  The larger your tires are the more you
will have to control this as well which is one reason you see double dampers
on largh 4x4's with big tires.

I can't speak as an authority here but I would suspect the brace is there
strictly to mount the tank and is not structural.  As I remember these, they
are not very substantial so wouldn't contribute much any way?

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> In the past I had a 71 Ranger that had manual steering. It was
> fine till about 50 and hit a bump (didn't even have to be big)
> and that would start the wheel hopping and sterring wheel jerking
> back and forth quickly, getting worse till I came to complete
> stop.


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Tire vibe and cab brace
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 04:51:36 -0800


Since nobody's yaking I'll add to this......I suspect that even a bad body
mount could contribute to the head shake as well.  My bronco has all new
front end parts and everything is tight but it has no damper (Yet) and this
happened to me once on a RR track.  I did some looking and found the two
front body mounts had rusted completely off leaving the front of the cab
(clip) hanging loose, just laying on the frame and bouncing.  I removed the
front radiator frame and rebuilt the pads and installed new rubers etc.
which also fixed some other issues I was having such as 33" tires that rub
occasionally and a radiator that just won't stay glued together etc. and
have not seen any kind of shake since.  In this case the shake was very rare
anyway so this is not a scientific evaluation by any means but the front
clip does add considerable rigidity to the front end on the bronco so may
have been a factor.

BTW, I've officially passed up that F-250.  I'm going to wait till I see a
350 which suits me and save my money toward that goal.  Meanwhile I will
have a 2wd 78 F-150 with stock 351 engine and wide ratio tranny with some
body repairs done on it for sale in a few months to bolster my 350 fund.  It
was my dad's truck but it doesn't really suit my needs so will be
sacrificed.  I am a pack rat but I do believe in only keeping stuff I can
use.  There isn't much room in my life for "Antiques" that are just there to
look at.  I'm also going to clean out my F-150 stock pile of parts this
summer which includes several 9" axles and a few C-6's etc. but won't be
doing anything til it warms up around here.  Meanwhile I will be picking up
the auto Traders and Wheeler Dealers and drooling over all the neat old
trucks that I don't really have time or money for such as the 51 Diamond T
for $900 or 78 ford, 4x4 dump for $2000 or the fully restored 51 with
original everything for $12,500 or.........

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> That "Head Shake" I call it, is probably due to something loose in the
> steering chain.


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Torsen's again, new insight (maybe :-))
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 05:09:27 -0800

Just finished going over the paper on the Torsen and if I understand all
their jibberish the key to the whole thing is on page 8 if I counted right
where there is a graph showing the relatiionship between bias and locking
ability.  It would appear that the higher the bias number the better it will
lock so rather than the speed bias value this bias refers to something else
based on some kind of friction between all the gears or
something......Sheeeesh!  Anyhow, if I read this right the best locking
Torsens will have the highest bias ratio.  Anyone else get that drift as
well?

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:07:42 -0800 (PST)
From: James Oxley <joxenburger yahoo.com>
Subject: Hans device and DE, was; daytona


>
> > The reports I saw said that the safety gear
wouldn't have done
> > anything to save him. He was the last driver to
wear an open helmet and he
> > didn't wear a head/neck support. But, the doctor
said it wouldn't have made
> > a difference.
> >
> >     Virgil
> >
> > > Very true...The report I heard on the news this
morning stated that he
> > > refused to wear the safety equipment that
probably would have saved his
> > > life...My wife commented when she heard this
that at least his death
> > > would serve some purpose in warning others not
to do the
> > > same...Sometimes she's pretty darn smart...
> > >
> >
>
> Did you all hear about the super-duper new helmet
that sold like hot cakes
> after the # 3 mishap ? I heard no one was interested
before , but afterwards
> the $ 6,000.oo price tag wasn't so bad . Foresight
?????
>

The Hans device was worn by 6 or 8 drivers DURING the
daytona 500. Many drivers have not worn it AFTER they
tested it because it limits your ability to turn your
head and hence your vision to the side is affected (a
safety device that may cause accidents??)

As for Dale. They estimate his impact in the 200G
range. Your brain squashes inside your skull at that
extreme force. If he survived he would be a vegetable.

He also has 8 broken ribs, broken breast bone, broken
ankle, blood in his lungs, coming out his ears, and in
his airways. Everyone I've heard with any knowledge of
auto racing, this accident, AND medicine has said no
driver worn safety device would have saved him.

 I was not a fan (he drove a ch*bbie), but I
respected him as an excellent driver and will miss his
non-PC attitude!!!

                       OX

--
78 Bronco Custom, 400, T-18, 14 bolt/detroit/4.56,
D60/detroit/4.56, 44
boggers, 9" lift (27 54.5678498576476596875869
(street), 17 56 (4"
mud), never 0 (17" mud)).
79 Bronco XLT, 351M, C6, D60/detroit/4.10,
D448lug/Lokrite/4.10, 38.5
SX's, 4"lift (It's so fast, I tore the axles right out
of it).
79 Bronc XLT, 351M, C6, 35 BFG AT's, 2" lift (19.3
40, pulling boat,
19.3 40, not puling boat)
86 Capri, turbo 5.0 (13.4 107)
90 Talon AWD turbo (12.7 104)
95 F250-460,4WD (16.9 82)


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:07:58 -0800 (PST)
From: James Oxley <joxenburger yahoo.com>
Subject: Hans device and DE, was; daytona


>
> > The reports I saw said that the safety gear
wouldn't have done
> > anything to save him. He was the last driver to
wear an open helmet and he
> > didn't wear a head/neck support. But, the doctor
said it wouldn't have made
> > a difference.
> >
> >     Virgil
> >
> > > Very true...The report I heard on the news this
morning stated that he
> > > refused to wear the safety equipment that
probably would have saved his
> > > life...My wife commented when she heard this
that at least his death
> > > would serve some purpose in warning others not
to do the
> > > same...Sometimes she's pretty darn smart...
> > >
> >
>
> Did you all hear about the super-duper new helmet
that sold like hot cakes
> after the # 3 mishap ? I heard no one was interested
before , but afterwards
> the $ 6,000.oo price tag wasn't so bad . Foresight
?????
>

The Hans device was worn by 6 or 8 drivers DURING the
daytona 500. Many drivers have not worn it AFTER they
tested it because it limits your ability to turn your
head and hence your vision to the side is affected (a
safety device that may cause accidents??)

As for Dale. They estimate his impact in the 200G
range. Your brain squashes inside your skull at that
extreme force. If he survived he would be a vegetable.

He also has 8 broken ribs, broken breast bone, broken
ankle, blood in his lungs, coming out his ears, and in
his airways. Everyone I've heard with any knowledge of
auto racing, this accident, AND medicine has said no
driver worn safety device would have saved him.

 I was not a fan (he drove a ch*bbie), but I
respected him as an excellent driver and will miss his
non-PC attitude!!!

                       OX

--
78 Bronco Custom, 400, T-18, 14 bolt/detroit/4.56,
D60/detroit/4.56, 44
boggers, 9" lift (27 54.5678498576476596875869
(street), 17 56 (4"
mud), never 0 (17" mud)).
79 Bronco XLT, 351M, C6, D60/detroit/4.10,
D448lug/Lokrite/4.10, 38.5
SX's, 4"lift (It's so fast, I tore the axles right out
of it).
79 Bronc XLT, 351M, C6, 35 BFG AT's, 2" lift (19.3
40, pulling boat,
19.3 40, not puling boat)
86 Capri, turbo 5.0 (13.4 107)
90 Talon AWD turbo (12.7 104)
95 F250-460,4WD (16.9 82)


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From: "Southerland, Rich" <rsouther alldata.com>
Subject: was Hans device and DE,daytona, Now let's get a little pe
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:14:46 -0800


In todays email...

On 18 February 2001, while racing for fame and fortune, Dale Earnhardt died
in the last lap of the Daytona 500. It was surely a tragedy for his family,
friends and fans. He was 49 years old with grown children, one, which was in
the race. I am new to the NASCAR culture so much of what I know has come
from the newspaper and TV. He was a winner and earned everything he had.
This included more than "$41 million in winnings and ten times that from
endorsements and souvenir sales". He had a beautiful home and a private jet.
He drove the most sophisticated cars allowed and every part was inspected
and replaced as soon as there was any evidence of wear. This is normally
fully funded by the car and team sponsors. Today, there is no TV station
that does not constantly remind us of his tragic end and the radio already
has a song of tribute to this winning driver. Nothing should be taken away
from this man, he was a professional and the best in his profession. He was
in a very dangerous business but the rewards were great.

Two weeks ago seven U.S. Army soldiers died in a training accident when two
UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters collided during night maneuvers in Hawaii. The
soldiers were all in their twenties, pilots, crewchiefs and infantrymen.
Most of them lived in sub-standard housing. If you add their actual duty
hours (in the field, deployed) they probably earn something close to minimum
wage. The aircraft they were in were between 15 and 20 years old. Many times
parts were not available to keep them in good shape due to funding. They
were involved in the extremely dangerous business of flying in the Kuhuku
mountains at night. It only gets worse when the weather moves in as it did
that night. Most times no one is there with a yellow or red flag to slow
things down when it gets critical. Their chidren where mostly toddlers who
will lose all memory of who "Daddy" was as they grow up. They died training
to defend our freedom.

I take nothing away from Dale Earnhardt but ask you to perform this simple
test. Ask any of your friends if they know who was the NASCAR driver killed
on 18 February 2001. Then ask them if they can name one of the seven
soldiers who died in Hawaii two weeks ago.

18 February 2001, Dale Earnhardt died driving for fame and glory at the
Daytona 500. The nation mourns. Seven soldiers died training to protect our
freedom. No one can remember their names and most don't even remember the
incident.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:49:19 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson <dpearson ctc.edu>
Subject: Re: was Hans device and DE,daytona, Now let's get a littl




"Southerland, Rich" wrote:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Support FTE - Check out our store:
> http://www.motorhaven.com/
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> In todays email...
>
> On 18 February 2001, while racing for fame and fortune, Dale Earnhardt died
> in the last lap of the Daytona 500.  <snip>...

> Two weeks ago seven U.S. Army soldiers died in a training accident when two
> UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters collided during night maneuvers in Hawaii.<snip>...

(At the risk of being off-topic) Thank you for that...



--
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http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ctc.edu/~dpearson/popcult.html
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------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Hans device and DE, was; daytona
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:42:15 -0800


I remember a CART race a few years ago in Toronto where a rookie who was one
of the best natural drivers since Mario was killed in a high tech,
compressable, scrub off the speed cushion Indy car after running over the
rear tire of a car in front of him at about 120 mph.  No one allowed for the
possibility that his head might contact one of the support posts (actually
several) when the car turned on it's side and slid along the fence killing
an official as well.  When that car stopped it was obvious from what was
left of the pod the driver was in that there wasn't enough room in there for
a full sized man so there was little hope that he survived.  He was killed
instantly when his head hit those posts.  Show me safety equipment that
takes it all into account and I'll show you a space suit that won't allow
any movement at all.  Read....."Bumper cars".

Racing is what it is because it's dangerous.  If it were not how many would
even watch?  We don't ever want to see our favorite driver hurt but we love
to see him cartwheel across the track, don't we?  The accident just before
the fatal one looked very bad but no one was hurt.  That's part of the draw
to the sport.  In 93 I watched Horton go over the wall at Teledaga after
which they put up stronger fence but his car was only 18" tall from the
ground after that incident and he only got a bruised elbow.  They had to cut
him out of the car too.  Another driver, Smith I believe, hit the wall much
like Dale did but it didn't look all that bad either and he was in the
hospital in a coma.  As I recall Davy Allison did the same thing at MIS in
turn 4 but hit the end of the embuttment at speed.  You can't factor those
incidents out of racing, it's part of the deal.  My wife and I are taping ....


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