61-79-list Digest V2001 #56

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------------------------------------
61-79-list Digest Tue, 20 Feb 2001 Volume: 2001 Issue: 056

In This Issue:
Re: vibration in front wheel
Re: vibration in front wheel
Re: vibration in front wheel
Re: brace on inside rear wall of cab
Re: Timing alignment
Re: vibration in front wheel
Re: brace on inside rear wall of cab
My 77 F250 at work, love that truck :>
Re: brace on inside rear wall of cab
Re: 9 inch questions
Bearing job
Re: 9 inch questions
Re: Bearing job
Re: Bearing job
Re: 9 inch questions
Re: 9 inch questions
Re: Bearing job
Need contacts
Re: Need contacts
Headers/Under hood Heat "FE Related"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hogan, Tom (Portland)" <Tom.Hogan

kla-tencor.com>
Subject: Re: vibration in front wheel
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:43:09 -0800

Could be a bad tire. Try swapping from side to side and see if it follows.

Tom H.

>
> On my 350 have a interment vibration, it feels like it is
> the right
> front it only happens above 65 or 70 it varies a little
> depending on the
> smoothness of the pavement, but happens none the less, I can
> feel it in
> the steering wheel in will be a 2 or 3 second shutter then
> stop for 4 or
> 5 sec pause and then again. I pulled the right front off
> last night and
> nothing was loose or seemed worn. The only thing that needs
> work is the
> radius arm bushings, they are a little worn. Any ideas???? TIA
>
> --
> William (Tony) Whited
> 74 F350 Ranger XLT Super Camper Special 460
> 77 F150 Custom 460
> El Paso, TX
> Semper Fi
>
>
> =============================================================
> To unsubscribe: www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:56:57 -0700
From: "William Whited (Tony)" <f10074

ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: vibration in front wheel

I thought of that, Tire looks good, but if that were the case wouldn't I have it
at most speeds not just above 65?

John LaGrone wrote:

> > On my 350 have a interment vibration, it feels like it is the right
> > front it only happens above 65 or 70 it varies a little depending on the
> > smoothness of the pavement, but happens none the less, I can feel it in
> > the steering wheel in will be a 2 or 3 second shutter then stop for 4 or
> > 5 sec pause and then again. I pulled the right front off last night and
> > nothing was loose or seemed worn. The only thing that needs work is the
> > radius arm bushings, they are a little worn. Any ideas???? TIA
>
> Tony,
>
> I would check your tire for out of balance or knots or split cord. The force
> may be loading up your shock beyond what it can absorb.
>
> -- John
> jlagrone

ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
> 1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
> http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
> Dearborn iron rules!!!!

--
William (Tony) Whited
74 F350 Ranger XLT Super Camper Special 460
77 F150 Custom 460
El Paso, TX
Semper Fi

------------------------------

From: "Hogan, Tom (Portland)" <Tom.Hogan

kla-tencor.com>
Subject: Re: vibration in front wheel
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:21:37 -0800

Not necessarily. I had a truck that developed an egg shaped tire that would
almost shake the truck apart at exactly 47.5 mph faster or slower and it
would run smooth. Replaced the tire problem gone.

Tom H.

>
> I thought of that, Tire looks good, but if that were the case
> wouldn't I have it
> at most speeds not just above 65?
>
> John LaGrone wrote:
>
> > > On my 350 have a interment vibration, it feels like it
> is the right
> > > front it only happens above 65 or 70 it varies a little
> depending on the
> > > smoothness of the pavement, but happens none the less, I
> can feel it in
> > > the steering wheel in will be a 2 or 3 second shutter
> then stop for 4 or
> > > 5 sec pause and then again. I pulled the right front off
> last night and
> > > nothing was loose or seemed worn. The only thing that
> needs work is the
> > > radius arm bushings, they are a little worn. Any ideas???? TIA
> >
> > Tony,
> >
> > I would check your tire for out of balance or knots or
> split cord. The force
> > may be loading up your shock beyond what it can absorb.
> >
> > -- John
> > jlagrone

ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
> > 1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
> > http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
> > Dearborn iron rules!!!!
>
> --
> William (Tony) Whited
> 74 F350 Ranger XLT Super Camper Special 460
> 77 F150 Custom 460
> El Paso, TX
> Semper Fi
>
>
> =============================================================
> To unsubscribe: www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:34:34 -0600
Subject: Re: vibration in front wheel
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone

ford-trucks.com>

> I thought of that, Tire looks good, but if that were the case wouldn't I have
it
> at most speeds not just above 65?

>> > On my 350 have a interment vibration, it feels like it is the right
>> > front it only happens above 65 or 70 it varies a little depending on the
>> > smoothness of the pavement, but happens none the less, I can feel it in
>> > the steering wheel in will be a 2 or 3 second shutter then stop for 4 or
>> > 5 sec pause and then again. I pulled the right front off last night and
>> > nothing was loose or seemed worn. The only thing that needs work is the
>> > radius arm bushings, they are a little worn. Any ideas???? TIA

Not necessarily. An out of balance tire can generate vibration at multiple
speeds. There is such a thing as driving through a vibration. Computer
balancing off of the truck also does not take in to account slight
variations that might occur due to wheel cover or brake drum/rotor
imbalance. On the vehicle dynamic balancing will get you the best balance,
but you may have to do a rebalance when you rotate the tires. You haven't
had a flat fixed on that tire since balancing have you? Sometimes the boot
or plug (don't ever let them plug a tire) will change the balance enough to
set up a vibration.

Your F350 isn't a full time 4X4 is it? If so, I'd look to the transfer case.
There has to be slippage between the front and rear. I had a 4X4 gmc that
did something similar sounding.

-- John
jlagrone

ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish

ford-trucks.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:59:16 GMT
Subject: Re: brace on inside rear wall of cab

>Before you saw it out, you need to compare a truck of the same cab design.
>In other words, don't compare a 66 to a 79.

Sorry John, I neglected to mention I don't recall seeing a brace in my grandfather's
70 either, though that has been a while since I looked very close at it, maybe
someone else can verify ?

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish

ford-trucks.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:02:36 GMT
Subject: Re: Timing alignment

>I didn't say it, but what I was thinking was running premium and advancing
>it MORE!
>

Ah, if a little's good, a lot must be better right ? Not so! You'll want to
be careful advancing it too far, you'll start to really impede performance at
higher rev's, and of course that rev limit gets lower and lower as you advance
the timing ...

not to mention the harder starts when warm

At any rate, just a mild warning, you'll know when you've gone too far with
it ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:10:04 -0600
Subject: Re: brace on inside rear wall of cab
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone

ford-trucks.com>

>>Before you saw it out, you need to compare a truck of the same cab design.
>>In other words, don't compare a 66 to a 79.
>
> Sorry John, I neglected to mention I don't recall seeing a brace in my
> grandfather's
> 70 either, though that has been a while since I looked very close at it, maybe
> someone else can verify ?

What was the last year for in cab gas tanks on Fords? 72 was the last for
gm. Logic would indicate that if there is a same style cab with and without
the in cab tank and the respective brace, then the brace isn't needed in
those years. But logic doesn't transfer the inference to earlier designs.

-- John
jlagrone

ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: vibration in front wheel

It is not a 4wd and nothing has been done to the tire that I know of. I'll have to
see about the balance.

John LaGrone wrote:

> Not necessarily. An out of balance tire can generate vibration at multiple
> speeds. There is such a thing as driving through a vibration. Computer
> balancing off of the truck also does not take in to account slight
> variations that might occur due to wheel cover or brake drum/rotor
> imbalance. On the vehicle dynamic balancing will get you the best balance,
> but you may have to do a rebalance when you rotate the tires. You haven't
> had a flat fixed on that tire since balancing have you? Sometimes the boot
> or plug (don't ever let them plug a tire) will change the balance enough to
> set up a vibration.

>
> Your F350 isn't a full time 4X4 is it? If so, I'd look to the transfer case.
> There has to be slippage between the front and rear. I had a 4X4 gmc that
> did something similar sounding.

--
William (Tony) Whited
74 F350 Ranger XLT Super Camper Special 460
77 F150 Custom 460
El Paso, TX
Semper Fi

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:36:01 -0600
Subject: wrong year Explorer for this list
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone

ford-trucks.com>

My son got his 1992 Explorer today. Another Ford truck in the driveway. :-)
Can you tell I'm happy?

-- John
jlagrone

gregster.com>
Subject: Re: brace on inside rear wall of cab

John LaGrone wrote:

> <snip>
>
> What was the last year for in cab gas tanks on Fords?

<snip>
I believe it was '77, depending on the model. My '77 F250 4x4 has the tank behind
the seat. My '77 F100 4x4,which used to be a 2 WD, has it in the far back frame. The
'75 & 76 crewcabs in my boneyard, both 2WD, had tanks behind the seat. The '78 2WD
crewcab (wow, I got alot of crewcabs kickin around) in my b/y has the tank under the
cab mounted on the frame and I think it had another one in the rear frame.

Hope this helps some
Greg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:05:51 -0600
Subject: Re: brace on inside rear wall of cab
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone

ford-trucks.com>

> I believe it was '77, depending on the model. My '77 F250 4x4 has the tank
behind
> the seat. My '77 F100 4x4,which used to be a 2 WD, has it in the far back
> frame. The
> '75 & 76 crewcabs in my boneyard, both 2WD, had tanks behind the seat. The '78
2WD
> crewcab (wow, I got alot of crewcabs kickin around) in my b/y has the tank
> under the
> cab mounted on the frame and I think it had another one in the rear frame.

What this means is that the mid and late 70s likely don't need a brace and
that there is no way to tell for sure on a 60s era truck with the earlier
cab style.

-- John
jlagrone

hotmail.com>
Subject: My 77 F250 at work, love that truck :>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:30:16 -0800

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1513649&a=11436012
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

From: "Garrett Nelson" <garrettnelson

writeme.com>
Subject: Re: brace on inside rear wall of cab
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:37:51 -0800

Well, I think I am going to wait before I do this now, I'd like to see what anyone else has to say. My thoughts are that the vertical ribs on the back wall of the cab strengthen it and prevent flexing, as well as the design of the hole the rear window goes into. I will probably remove it but will wait for more opinions.

Thanks guys.

Garrett Nelson
www.1966ford.com

----------------------------------------------------
What this means is that the mid and late 70s likely don't need a brace and
that there is no way to tell for sure on a 60s era truck with the earlier
cab style.

------------------------------

From: Aeroape82

aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:24:50 EST
Subject: Re: 9 inch questions

The bearing is useally not the pain it is the retaining ring that holds
everything on the axle. It is about 1 1/2" thick. Some times you can get it
off with a puller but I have had some that Ihad to put in a 30 ton press to
remove.

Glenn NY
78 F250 (talk about projects and headaches)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:49:53 -0800
From: Twitchell <twitchell

qwest.net>
Subject: Bearing job

I have a 71 F-100 with a 390 & C6 which was put in by a previous owner.
I am in the middle of replacing the bearings. (Someday if the snow ever
melts and that bright warm thing in the sky ever comes back)
Had the crank reground. 20 under on the mains and 40 on the rod
bearings. The old rod bearing for #2 was about as thick as construction
paper and came off in 4 pieces.
Someone recently told me that if the bearing was that bad, that the rod
probably is stretched (elongated) and should be replaced.
I had hoped to just do the "bottom" and not have to remove the heads.
Now I'm worried.
If I go ahead with plan A and the rod is stretched, what bad things
might happen?
D. E. Twitchell

------------------------------

From: "Jason and Kathy" <kendrick

mddc.com>
Subject: Re: 9 inch questions
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:47:40 -0600

Glen writes:
> The bearing is useally not the pain it is the retaining ring that holds
> everything on the axle. It is about 1 1/2" thick. Some times you can get
it
> off with a puller but I have had some that Ihad to put in a 30 ton press
to
> remove.

If the retaining ring has to come off, it should be replaced with a new
one, or so I was told. I've found that a quick application of a sharp cold
chisel and a five pound hammer will usually take care of the retaining ring.
Remember to wear safety glasses during the process, as the retaining ring
has a lot of tension and could be reduced to shrapnel.

Jason Kendrick

------------------------------

From: "Stevel" <canzus

seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Bearing job
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:53:27 -0800

----- Original Message -----
From: Twitchell <twitchell

qwest.net>
To: <61-79-list

ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 20 February, 2001 6:49 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] Bearing job

> Someone recently told me that if the bearing was that bad, that the rod
> probably is stretched (elongated) and should be replaced.
> I had hoped to just do the "bottom" and not have to remove the heads.
> Now I'm worried.
> If I go ahead with plan A and the rod is stretched, what bad things
> might happen?

You'll spin that bearing in short order, when you replace rod bearings,
you should get the rods resized, or you'll wind up with the same problem
very quickly, like less than 1000 miles, if it lives through the break in
period.

Steve & the Rockette

------------------------------

From: "Jason and Kathy" <kendrick

mddc.com>
Subject: Re: Bearing job
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:57:24 -0600

Twitchell writes:

> If I go ahead with plan A and the rod is stretched, what bad things
> might happen?
> D. E. Twitchell

If you just put it back together as is, the big end of the rod may be
enlarged, causing loose bearing clearance, possibly knocking, and possibly a
catastrophic bottom end failure, with the results closely resembling Project
FE on the Fordmuscle.com website. Pull the head, remove the rod and piston,
and run it down to your local machine shop to be checked. By the way, if the
rod shows any sign of discoloration on the big end, you should just fling it
as far as you can and replace it with another rod. Just my thoughts...

Jason Kendrick

------------------------------

From: Aeroape82

aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 06:21:28 EST
Subject: Re: 9 inch questions

In a message dated 2/20/01 8:50:23 PM Central Standard Time,
kendrick

mddc.com writes:

> If the retaining ring has to come off, it should be replaced with a new
>

I have never had a problem reusing the ring.

Glenn NY

78 F250 (talk about projects and headaches)

------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3

lni.net>
Subject: Re: 9 inch questions
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 02:28:40 -0800

It's one of those safety things. The MFG will not warranty bearings
retained by used retainers which is why all bearing sets come with new ones.
Except for seal replacements there is no reason to ever re-use one anyway.
They are soft steel and can gall when pressed on losing some of the size
needed to hold them in place. One press may not be enough to cause trouble
but several presses will certainly lower the safety margin of these
retainers. The other factor is that the press is so tight that the metal is
actually stretched. Each time this happens some of the integrety is lost.

I "Might" take a chance on a rear wheel this way, one time to save a few
bucks on the bearings if only the seal needed replacement, especially If I
just put it on new and tore the seal when installing it but if this were on
an aircraft or front wheels of a high speed vehicle or were on a bearing
that had been in place for many miles I would not take the chance. What
part of your life or family's life will you trade for $40?

The proper way to remove them, according to the book is to drill a 1/2" hole
through to the axle and pop with a chisel. I've never had to use the chisel
because the press is so high it will break before you are even through
drilling. Most people will tell you to press the whole shebang on at once
but I've found that it is easier to tell what you are doing if you put the
bearing on first, press it into place then put the retainer on so you don't
over press against the bearing. The radius on the axle is sufficient to
deform the bearing race if you over press the assy against the shoulder
IMHO. The last retainer I pressed on took over 12 tons of pressure to seat.

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> > If the retaining ring has to come off, it should be replaced with a new
> >
>
> I have never had a problem reusing the ring.

------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3

lni.net>
Subject: Re: Bearing job
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 02:39:43 -0800

If you mean the bearings were so thin that they came apart radially, not
delaminated then I would replace the rod, not try to repair it. If it got
down that close to the crank there almost certainly was some serious heat
and heat is the killer of important metal parts. If there is no
discoloration and I were on a budget I might try to rezize, straighten and
re-use the old rod but re-worked rods from PAW are relatively cheap (course
they may not be any more integral than yours either). Just take a close
look at the big end of the rod. If it looks OK and doesn't look like it got
hot then go for it :-) I would have a shop resize the big end at least
though to be safe.

Really, any time you take the bottom end apart after many miles are on it
you should have the rods resized and checked for straightness. You learn a
few important things by doing this. Perhaps the engine has seen some
serious stress and the rods have been damaged. If they are bent then this
may be a clue that you should be replacing some parts etc.....OTOH, I have
put old 335 series engines back on the road for another 50k miles by sanding
the caps, hand polishing the crank and throwing in a standard set of
bearings so how "Anal" are you ? :-)

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> bearings. The old rod bearing for #2 was about as thick as construction
> paper and came off in 4 pieces.
> Someone recently told me that if the bearing was that bad, that the rod
> probably is stretched (elongated) and should be replaced.
> I had hoped to just do the "bottom" and not have to remove the heads.
> Now I'm worried.
> If I go ahead with plan A and the rod is stretched, what bad things
> might happen?
> D. E. Twitchell

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:19:22 -0600
Subject: Re: Bearing job
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone

ford-trucks.com>

>> Someone recently told me that if the bearing was that bad, that the rod
>> probably is stretched (elongated) and should be replaced.
>> I had hoped to just do the "bottom" and not have to remove the heads.
>> Now I'm worried.
>> If I go ahead with plan A and the rod is stretched, what bad things
>> might happen?
>
> You'll spin that bearing in short order, when you replace rod bearings,
> you should get the rods resized, or you'll wind up with the same problem
> very quickly, like less than 1000 miles, if it lives through the break in
> period.

I think what they meant was that the area where the bearing sits is
elongated, not the shaft of the rod. Steve's right, that rod likely won't
stay. It needs to be replaced.

-- John
jlagrone

HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Need contacts
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:15:11 -0600

Off topic.

I need some help in the following areas of these United Atates of America:

Reynoldsburg(Columbus), Ohio area specifically the 614 area code area.

Tucson, Arizona specifically the 520 area code.

Tempe, Arizona specifically the 480 area code.

Phoenix, Arizona specifically the 602 area code.

Brooklyn Park(Baltimore), Maryland specifically the 410 area code.

Please contact me off list if you are willing to give a fellow FTEr a helping
hand.. I'm looking at Classic Cars on Trader online and need someones
opinion on things advertised in those areas. Not necessarily in a hurry.

Maggie11

Hiwaay.net
Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.

------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD

aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:35:38 EST
Subject: Re: Need contacts

Just outta curiosity Azie, What are ya lookin at? Can email me off list if
you wish. I've got a neighbor that can find anycar, in great shape, for
under 500. Hes got about 6 of the old early to mid 60's continentals, most
of which only paid $4-500 for, in running condition. Hes even got a 66 Bird
with beautiful paint, and a decent interior he picked up for $300.

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

From: "Ken Schneider" <fordemail

sunsetcoast.com>
Subject: Headers/Under hood Heat "FE Related"
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:45:03 -0500

List,

I currently have a stock FE/C6 combo under the hood of my 68 F100 2wd. When
I bought the truck a few years ago, it came with some headers, and dual
exhaust with turbo mufflers. I am not sure of the brand of headers, but
they seem to be some kind of medium/large tube headers. Each exhaust port
has a separate tube (obviously), but the weird part about these headers is
that the exhaust port flanges are completely separate, they are not
connected. The only place that the headers are connected is the bottom.
Matter of fact, My Dad and I had to cut individual gaskets with a dremel
tool and gasket material because any stock Felpro offering, or Mr. Gasket
offering for FE engines would not line up correctly with the headers. The
headers don't leak though, and they stay tight. The only issue with these
headers is the starter removal/installation of course, and the lack of
available gaskets.

I have an under hood heat issue, I'm assuming it is coming from the
headers, and not something else because my Dad's FE in his 70 F100 running
stock manifolds is very cool (under hood temp that is). Currently the
starter is wrapped. I wondering about the effectiveness of the header wraps
are that are available, if anyone has used them, what were the results, etc,
or If I am better off purchasing a set of ceramic coated headers, or another
set of headers, and having them ceramic coated. (also sources for ceramic
coating, or factory ceramic coated headers would be helpful)

Keep in mind that this is a non-salt month vehicle (April-November) and sees
about 5000 miles a year.

This truck has never had any overheating issues due to this problem, but
does have the occasional hot start issue, probably due to the heat of the
gas, or the non-dense air, I have no idea.

Thanks for your time, suggestions, and bandwidth,

Ken Schneider
Coloma, MI (currently

....

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