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------------------------------------
61-79-list Digest Fri, 16 Feb 2001 Volume: 2001  Issue: 050

In This Issue:
Re: 203 to 205???
Re: Timing my motor - need advice
Timing
Re: 203 to 205???
Re: New Ford 9"
Re: possible parting of a 63
Re: Timing my motor - need advice
Re: possible parting of a 63
Front sump
Re: Timing my motor - need advice
203 to 205
Re: Timing my motor - need advice
Re: Timing my motor - need advice
Re: Timing my motor - need advice
Re: carb torque
Re: New Ford 9"
Re: Timing my motor - need advice
TDC was :Re: Timing my motor - need advice
Re: 390 intake
Re: 70 Parking light
Torsen "was' New Ford 9"
Cold timing, was: Re: 390 intake
Re: Torsen "was' New Ford 9"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: FORDTRKNUT aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 06:43:07 EST
Subject: Re: 203 to 205???


The NP205 cast iron cases are different between "Married" and "Divorced"
setups.  The "Divorced" transfercase has bolt holes that mount it to the
crossmember from the top.  It also has a support rod that ties it to the
frame.  The best bet is just to put the word out that your looking for one.
I have a "Divorced" NP205 transfercase, but its going in my 1979 F-350 4x4
(After its lifted 14" higher to lessen the drive shaft angles)    If you need
pictures I have alot of digging to do to get to them.  Let me know OFF LIST ,
and I'll upload them to my AOL webspace.  I'll post the web address to the
list so everybody can see them.  Wayne Grabley (Clifton, NJ)

------------------------------

From: "Serian" <serian mailandnews.com>
Subject: Re: Timing my motor - need advice
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:37:10 -0500

>or a leak between the carb and the manifold,

For cranking the carb nuts down REALLY tight,
I put a steel washer between the nut and the carb
base to keep that hardened steel nut from chewing
its way into the soft aluminum of the carb base.



------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Timing
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:28:10 -0600

Mark of SW Wash writes:  >>Does it line up with the keyway on the
crankshaft?<<

All I've ever been in align with the keyway.

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:03:21 GMT
Subject: Re: 203 to 205???


This may sound too easy, but have you considered the part time kits available
for the 203 ?

That's what I've got, and I believe Mark does too ... granted its not as cool
as a 205, but its a lot less work (especially when you have someone else do
it :)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:04:56 GMT
Subject: Re: New Ford 9"


>A Torsen is available for many applications under the name Detroit
>Truetrac.

This is the first I've ever heard of this ... any more info ?  I still see Torsen's
listed in all the catalog's ... maybe we're just talking about different setups
?

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:15:39 -0600
Subject: Re: Timing my motor - need advice
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>


> that's what I'm suspecting, the cam is huge, I don't have all the specs, but
> here's the basics :
>
> Cam Lift .296 .311 (intake/exhaust)
> Valve Lift .512 .538
> SAE Duration 292/302
> 0.050 Duration 214/224
> Lobe Centers 104/120
>
> Supposed to "bleed off" some compression to avoid spark knock with the insane
> compression ratio I ended up with (10:1 or so :)  ... so I'm thinkin it might
> be a bit too little vaccuum at idle to get things working right ... like I
said
> though I'll try and check for a carb gasket leak ...

I think the cam is probably the reason you aren't getting good idle. We
re-cammed a 66 Buick Wildcat 401 once. Wouldn't idle below about 1000 rpm.
Sure would put the 120 mph speedometer on the peg in a hurry though.  The
carb to intake manifold gasket is always a good thing to check. I have a
hunch that this is just the way your engine is going to be.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:20:41 -0600
Subject: Re: Timing my motor - need advice
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>


> Another thing that may be causing some grief is a
> sticking secondary plate and some carbs even have adjustable secondary
> stops.  If the secondarys are partially open, even a tiny little bit they
> will destroy any hope of signal to the idle circuit.  I've been bitten by
> that one.

This is a very good point, Gary, especially if you are running a quadrajet.
It is very easy to put them back together with the back barrels hung open a
crack. BTDT. It behaves exactly as you describe plus the secondaries won't
open up at all.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:36:47 -0600
Subject: Re: carb torque
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>


>>or a leak between the carb and the manifold,
>
> For cranking the carb nuts down REALLY tight,
> I put a steel washer between the nut and the carb
> base to keep that hardened steel nut from chewing
> its way into the soft aluminum of the carb base.

Over torqueing the carb hold down nuts/bolts will a) warp the carb body, b)
break off the ears and c) squash your gasket. Tighten them to spec, probably
in the 14-16 ft-lbs range, meaning just snugged, then slap some silicone
sealer on top so that it crosses the threads and the nut or the bolt head
and the carb ear. It's easy to break loose when you need the carb off and it
will not let the nut/bolt vibrate loose. If your gasket compresses over
time, you will need to retighten.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

From: "Southerland, Rich" <rsouther alldata.com>
Subject: Re: possible parting of a 63
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 06:46:22 -0800


and you haven't bought it yet?!?!? :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Rolfsen [mailto:negativeimage earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 7:29 PM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [61-79-list] possible parting of a 63


----------------------------------------------------------
Support FTE - Check out our store:
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well folks, i have come across a hell of a deal. a guy here in town has a 70
torino gt with the 351c 4v, and shaker hood. he's only asking $1000, but
only
because he doesn't know what it is. he thinks it's a mercury of some sort
and
has a 351w in it. so, if i buy it, everything except the 9" rear end on my
63
will be up for sale, including the all original 351c. i will also be keeping
the
c6 3 speed tranny.

andrew

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------------------------------

From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: Re: Timing my motor - need advice
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:07:33 -0800 (PST)


John wrote:
> Well, I'll probably regret this, but...if your throttle butterflies or
> your choke butterfly close all of the way, your engine won't run. There
> is a bypass path where your idle mix screws are.....

The way I understand it, ported vacuum originates at a port inside the
venturi that is still above the butterfly valve when it is set at idle.

> Every engine I can remember setting immediately gained timing and rpm
> as soon as the vacuum lines were hooked back up.

Same here.


Mark in Southwest Washington
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacifier.com/~draco/Truck.html
--
'74 F-100 Ranger XLT 4X4
in digest mode

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:26:41 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson <dpearson ctc.edu>
Subject: Re: possible parting of a 63


OK, now,  where are you?

Andrew Rolfsen wrote:
 everything except the 9" rear end on my 63
> will be up for sale, including the all original 351c. i will also be keeping the
> c6 3 speed tranny.
>
> andrew
>

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://counterculture.ws
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ctc.edu/~dpearson/popcult.html
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/lyrics.htm

------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Front sump
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:26:09 -0600

George S. writes:  >>So, does anyone know if a 460 with a front sump pan
will fit in a 70 2wd Ford F-100?  Truck has a C-6, in case it matters.<<

George, I don't know diddly squat about the pre '73's, but on the '77
460 I have in an F350 2WD, the sump is in the front and uses the same
oil pump pickup as the car does.  The only differences between car and
truck that I can find is that the deep part on the truck is a bit longer than it
is on the car and holds 7 quarts of oil vs the car holds 5 quarts.  So if your
'70 frame is anything like the '73-'79 frame, you should have no problem.
Now the 4X4 is a whole nother smoke.  Gotta have the rear sump or you
will have an interference in Pumpkin(front) and oil pan..  The oil pan will
loose.


Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: Re: Timing my motor - need advice
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:31:27 -0800 (PST)


wish wrote:
> I would think the cam would love 12-14, and if its at 16 or so, maybe
> the timing chain moves the cam off of straight up a bit making it come
> in at 16 instead of 14 or 12 ... just a theory there.

Yeah, what really worries me is when Gary said in the '70 the cams were
ground to offset the retarded timing sets.  I am not sure if he meant this
actually happened, or may have happened.  What if I have a pre emissions
timing set and one of these cams?

Any of you guys thinking of getting a longblock from an engine re-builder,
take a lesson from this.  Either stay with stock components, or if they
put anything non stock in it make sure you know exactly what you are
getting.  Best of all, do it all yourself if you think you have the skills,
which maybe I do, maybe I don't, I didn't want to take the chance.  Unlike
Gary, I tend to do things that I am not good at.  I am the classic "Jack of
all trades, master of none." :)

I needed a motor, actually I needed the heads done, but for a little more
than twice the cost of head rebuilds I got the longblock.  The way it was
presented was $1050/exch for the longblock and for an extra $100 and RV
cam and HD valve springs.  I have no idea what cam I have in there, or
whether the timing set is retarded.

> I finally got mine tuned up pretty good, but still can't get the idle
> down where I want it without killing it when I drop it into gear (auto).
> My throttle plates were too far open causing the idle circuit to be ignored
> almost completely, but now its still at 900rpm's in P/N and that doesn't
> seem low enough to me, but any lower and it dies off ...  *shrug* ...
> things to play with in warm weather

I was in this same boat, couldn't get the thing to idle.  After setting
idle mixture I noticed was less than a turn from all the way in.  I backed
the idle speed screw off until it came off the linkage which was a long
way, turned the mixture screws out 2 1/2 turns and the idle speed screw in
just a bit.  After a few minor adjustments it idled better but still not
great.

I pulled the plugs, which led to a compression check, which let to pulling
the passenger side head. :( Things are all back together and I am trying
to tune the motor.  So far it appears the rough idle was due to improper
installation of the intake manifold gaskets which led to failure, a chunk
of something stuck to the sealing surface of the #4 exhaust valve, and
retarded ignition timing.


Mark in Southwest Washington
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacifier.com/~draco/Truck.html
--
'74 F-100 Ranger XLT 4X4
in digest mode

------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: 203 to 205
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:42:47 -0600

Matt writes:  >>does anyone know of some way to change my
married 205 into a divorced 205?<<

Most any 4X4 shop should be able to answer this.  I would think
that it would be a simple conversion, but I don't know this.  This
is where an exploded view of each version would come in rather
handy. If you have no luck locally try calling "Wayne"
Performance Gear in Lumberton, Ms...  Ph# (601) 796-2026..
I have no assocation with him except a very satisfied customer.
He is very knowledgeable of 4WD's of all makes.. and all geartrains..

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: Re: Timing my motor - need advice
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:56:49 -0800 (PST)


Gary wrote:
> When I time an engine the first thing I do is play with the idle
> mixture balance and idle speed then check the timing.....

Thanks, Gary, for the detailed explanation and tuning procedure.  I am
pretty happy with the way it is running now, but I think I will go back
and check everything again.

> BTW, if you can't hear the spark knock going by that wall I'd bet you
> are pretty safe :-)

So maybe I have some room to advance even more?  Should I advance until
it knocks and back off?  I think to really test this the truck would have
to be under a load, say near max GVWR and going up the steepest hill I
can find.


Mark in Southwest Washington
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacifier.com/~draco/Truck.html
--
'74 F-100 Ranger XLT 4X4
in digest mode

------------------------------

From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: Re: Timing my motor - need advice
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:03:18 -0800 (PST)


Richard wrote:
> I had this problem on my 429 in my T-Bird.  I had easy access to the
> balancer and all my plugs were out so the engine was easy to turn
> with a ratchet.  I put a screwdriver through the plug hole and then
> slowly turned the  engine by hand until the screwdriver topped out
> and started back down.  The TDC mark should line up with the timing
> indicator at this point.

If it is as far off as yours was, this would work fine, but in my case
the movement of the balancer is large compared to the small movement
of the piston around TDC and I don't think I can draw any conlusions
from this kind of check.  That is why I was asking if TDC lines up
with some reference point on the crankshaft itself.


Mark in Southwest Washington
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacifier.com/~draco/Truck.html
--
'74 F-100 Ranger XLT 4X4
in digest mode


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Timing my motor - need advice
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 06:40:39 -0800


I think you can test it pretty easily by simply putting it in second and
stomping it from a rolling stop.  This puts the same kind of load on it that
higher speeds and heavier loads would.  My bronco only knocks when in third
gear (Np-435) at about 15 mph and I give it some serious gas.  Once it gets
above about 30 I can hit it as hard as I want to and in second it never
knocks and, as you say, in third there isnt' enough load to make it knock at
road speeds but my clutch slips before it can get that much load on it
anyway so maybe that's my safety valve, eh? :-)

I usually try that at some point then back off about 2 degrees to give
yourself a little margin because the kind of detonation that does the most
damage is detonation you can't hear.....In racing engines this is very
commonly missed due to the exhaust noise but in touring engines it can
usually be heard before damage is done unless you do have loud exhaust in
which case you may want to be a little more conservative with the timing to
be safe.

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> > BTW, if you can't hear the spark knock going by that wall I'd bet you
> > are pretty safe :-)
>
> So maybe I have some room to advance even more?  Should I advance until
> it knocks and back off?  I think to really test this the truck would have
> to be under a load, say near max GVWR and going up the steepest hill I
> can find.
>
>
> Mark in Southwest Washington


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: carb torque
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 06:52:38 -0800


John is absolutely right here, carb hold downs don't need to be tight if you
use the proper gaskets and the carb base can warp enough to cause the
secondaries to stick at the most inopportune times.......They also need to
be tightened evenly and progressively to prevent distortion.  Remember this
is a soft, aluminum part, not steel.  It won't take much abuse.  Think of it
like a thermostat housing.....how tight to you torque them??? (and get away
with it that is :-))  I sometimes use two or more gaskets but then you have
to be even more careful not to over tighten them as there is even less
support for the ears.

Thin washers are nice though because they distribute the load further
protecting the ears.  I've never pulled one that didn't have washers on it.

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> Over torqueing the carb hold down nuts/bolts will a) warp the
> carb body, b)
> break off the ears and c) squash your gasket. Tighten them to
> spec, probably
> in the 14-16 ft-lbs range, meaning just snugged, then slap some silicone
> sealer on top so that it crosses the threads and the nut or the bolt head
> and the carb ear. It's easy to break loose when you need the carb
> off and it
> will not let the nut/bolt vibrate loose. If your gasket compresses over
> time, you will need to retighten.
>
> -- John


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: New Ford 9"
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:18:10 -0800


George, unless this happened just recently I believe you are mistaken.  I've
seen the internal schematics of both and they are nothing alike.  A quick
call to Reider Racing would dispell any questions on this I think.  I'm
still suffering from the flu bug going around but if I get the ambition I
will give them a call.  If I'm wrong here I certainly do appologize.

Not sure where all those numbers come from either but if you apply a little
brake to a friction type LS you can get nearly full lockup if there is any
traction at all.  The more even the traction the harder they bite.  If you
are talking dry pavement then maybe the numbers make some sense, not sure??
Once the weak tire breaks loose with an open diff you get nearly  zero to
the ground but until it breaks loose you get 100% which is what it's
supposed to do and it does it better than any other system......untill that
tire breaks loose, then the locker is the obvious better choice :-)  Most of
the time you will actually get better traction with an open diff under good
traction conditions, particularily in turns.  That is what it is supposed to
do and it does it very well but take away some of the traction and all the
other types of lockers come into play (Unless you are talking drag racing
where the vehicle is never turned).

When I did my research on the Torsen they were available from 2:1 up to 5:1
ratios which I always thought was kind of silly since the max turn ratio
between any two tires on any axle is less than 2:1 at full lock but there
must have been some reason for it :-)  People say they lock under certain
conditions but the design I studied has no locking mechanism, just gears
which is why they are so popular, they are very smooth under all conditions.
I've never had one or driven with one and am basing this on their hype and
the pictures they sent me to study when I requested an Info Packet so may
have missed something that was not apparent in the pictures in which case I
appologize for misleading anyone but I've not heard anything to dispell this
opinion yet??

Since I plan to put a true-trak in my van I will be able to give a first
hand description of how it works, hopefully this summer.  If the Torsen
price has come down much I may be doing that on in the bronco, we'll see :-)

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> A Torsen is available for many applications under the name Detroit
> Truetrac.  They licensed the diff from Torsen and put their name on
> it.  Main benefit is that a torsen can allow up to a 3:1 bias, while a
> standard clutch type diff is limited to 4/3:1.  What this means in
> practical terms is that if one tire is limited to 50 ft/lbs of torque and
> the other one has unlimited traction potential the following would apply:
>
> (1) open diff - 100 ft/lbs would get to the ground, as the unlimited
> traction side would be limited to equal the other side (50+50)
> (2) clutch type limited slip - gets 116.6 ft lbs to the ground additional
> 16.6 foot-lbs provided by the limited slip (50+66.6)
> (2) Torsen type limited slip - gets 200 ft-lbs of torque, as
> Torsen allows
> 150 ft-lbs on traction side (50+150)
> (3) Locker - gets the full power of the engine to the ground (50+
> whatever
> the engine can provide)
>
> Torsen uses binding gears rather than clutches to achieve lockup.
>
> George Selby


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Timing my motor - need advice
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:22:21 -0800


As Azie said the crank key way is exactly on TDC but how will you determine
where straight up is with any accuracy?  (without a degree wheel that is
:-))  With the timing cover off you can line up the dots on the sprockets
and get it very close.  When the dots are exactly lined up it is always at
TDC AFAIK.

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> If it is as far off as yours was, this would work fine, but in my case
> the movement of the balancer is large compared to the small movement
> of the piston around TDC and I don't think I can draw any conlusions
> from this kind of check.  That is why I was asking if TDC lines up
> with some reference point on the crankshaft itself.
>
>
> Mark in Southwest Washington


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:34:16 -0600
Subject: Re: Timing my motor - need advice
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>


> As Azie said the crank key way is exactly on TDC but how will you determine
> where straight up is with any accuracy?  (without a degree wheel that is
> :-))  With the timing cover off you can line up the dots on the sprockets
> and get it very close.  When the dots are exactly lined up it is always at
> TDC AFAIK.

Can you clarify this? I'm not disagreeing in the least. The crank makes two
revs for the cam's one. How do the dots on the gears line up? Doesn't the
dot on the crank go up and the cam down? Sheesh I can't remember but I know
that if you don't know how to do it right it is easy to misconstrue and do
it wrong.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

From: "Erik Marquez" <bronco78 alaska.com>
Subject: TDC was :Re: Timing my motor - need advice
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:36:38 -0900


>
>As Azie said the crank key way is exactly on TDC but how will you determine
>where straight up is with any accuracy?  (without a degree wheel that is
>:-))  With the timing cover off you can line up the dots on the sprockets
>and get it very close.  When the dots are exactly lined up it is always at
>TDC AFAIK.
>

A dial indicator and spark plug hole adapter is fairly inexpensive tool and
will tell ya exactly when you are at TDC, Plus, if ya spend a little more
and get a better dial, you could also use it on many other projects with the
addition of a mag base or other holding fixture.

As with most anything ya get what you pay for.. While you can spend several
hundred dollars on a better dial indicator, a less expensive one will work
for the TDC measurement.

Erik Marquez
who thinks there is no such thing as a bad tool or wrong time to get a new
one -;)
bronco78 alaska.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.home.gci.net/~bronco78
Home of the BB decal


------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:48:19 GMT
Subject: Re: 390 intake


> Now I have a question about the distributor installation. Is the oil pump shaft
supposed to stay in the oil pump where you can just see the top of it?

No one answered this part that I saw, the answer is yes ... there should be
a "keeper" on the oil pump that doesn't let you pull it out of the pump (neat
huh ?).  if you can't get the hex to line up or it moves to one side, I was
able to use a nut driver of the correct size and rotate it to where it needed
to be and re-center it ...


> My other question is everything says to rotate the block to 0 TDC  where is
that?

If you marked where the dist. was pointing when you pulled it out, then you
could just drop it back in the same way and re-set the timing ... otherwise
starting over at TDC might not be a bad idea ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" <tim-pam williams-net.com>
Subject: Re: 70 Parking light
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:49:17 -0500


those are hard to come by around here for a used one. Check out LMC  or
Dennis Carpenter.They should be able to help you out.
-----Original Message-----
From: George Selby <gselby4x4 earthlink.net>
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Date: Friday, February 16, 2001 3:56 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] 70 Parking light


>----------------------------------------------------------
>Support FTE - Check out our store:
>http://www.motorhaven.com/
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>I need a Drivers side front parking light (the yellow one under the
>headlight) for a 70 F-100 Ranger.
>
>Anyone happen to have one?  That's all I need to pass inspection.
>
>
>George Selby
>78 F-150 4x4 400 4 spd
>86 Nissan 300ZX
>92 Subaru Legacy Wagon AWD
>gselby4x4 earthlink.net
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.usedcarsandparts.com
>
>=============================================================
>To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
>Please remove this footer when replying.
>


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:00:10 -0600
From: WillyoumarrymeOX <dahorse jvlnet.com>
Subject: Torsen "was' New Ford 9"




GaryBBB wrote:

> George, unless this happened just recently I believe you are mistaken.  I've
> seen the internal schematics of both and they are nothing alike.  A quick
> call to Reider Racing would dispell any questions on this I think.  I'm
> still suffering from the flu bug going around but if I get the ambition I
> will give them a call.  If I'm wrong here I certainly do appologize.

You are not wrong, the Torsen diff and the Tru-trac are two entirely
diff diffs.

> Not sure where all those numbers come from either but if you apply a little
> brake to a friction type LS you can get nearly full lockup if there is any
> traction at all.  The more even the traction the harder they bite.  If you

>snip> " a big one;-P"

> I've never had one or driven with one and am basing this on their hype and
> the pictures they sent me to study when I requested an Info Packet so may
> have missed something that was not apparent in the pictures in which case I
> appologize for misleading anyone but I've not heard anything to dispell this
> opinion yet??
>
> Since I plan to put a true-trak in my van I will be able to give a first
> hand description of how it works, hopefully this summer.  If the Torsen
> price has come down much I may be doing that on in the bronco, we'll see :-)

Well Gary..I own one of each here...and the Torsen is a much more
refined diff than the tru-trac...that said it doesn't work alot
better...In a rear axle application, if you jack yup one wheel off the
ground and put the vehichal in gear it will be hard pressed to drive off
that jack..Now yr right sum stomping on the brake will help lok a wheel
up....but in most situations the stomping of the brake in a non 4x4
enviroment will hinder yr forward progress enough (due ta brake
apllication) too make the sec wheel driving of little use. An auburn or
a old Spicer Power-lok are much more effciant diffs and have just about
the same kinda street manners as a torsen....if you would like to see
how well a Torsen works...ask any Hummer owner that wheels there
rig....most in time opt to replace the factory installed Torsen diffs
with Detroits....pounding the brake pedal for sum lok up works to a
point...but is uesless in most 2x4 applications and on a 4x4 it's plain
annoying! And all this a matter of opinion basically.....but if ya want
open diff performance on the street and desire the traction of a locker
buy a ARB or a cable operated locker..or just learn ta live with the
small quirks of a real locker.

Norm

------------------------------

From: "Erik Marquez" <bronco78 alaska.com>
Subject: Cold timing, was: Re: 390 intake
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:10:46 -0900



-----Original Message-----
From: wish <wish ford-trucks.net>
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: 390 intake


>
>> Now I have a question about the distributor installation. Is the oil pump
shaft
>supposed to stay in the oil pump where you can just see the top of it?
>
>No one answered this part that I saw, the answer is yes ... there should be
>a "keeper" on the oil pump that doesn't let you pull it out of the pump
(neat
>huh ?).  if you can't get the hex to line up or it moves to one side, I was
>able to use a nut driver of the correct size and rotate it to where it
needed
>to be and re-center it ...
>
>
>> My other question is everything says to rotate the block to 0 TDC  where
is
>that?
>
>If you marked where the dist. was pointing when you pulled it out, then you
>could just drop it back in the same way and re-set the timing ... otherwise
>starting over at TDC might not be a bad idea ...
>

If Im not understanding the above post correctly, simply delete this one LOL
But it sounds like the process of cold timing was just partially described.

If I may, I have a suggestion or two.

Cold timing a motor can be done with a + - 3 deg accuracy.

rotate motor to TDC, then continue to rotate till timing marks line up to
what you would adjust the static timing to if it were running, vac plugged,
proper RPM,,,say 12 deg BTDC.  Now stab the dist, now take it out because
you didn't get the dist gear on the correct tooth and the rotor is not
pointing to where you want it to, drop it in again, now take it out,, darn
oil pump shaft is not lined up correctly and will not allow the dist to
completely drop down, use an extension and 5/16 socket (or correct size for
your shaft) to turn the shaft a little, install dist.. rotate it opposite
direction of normal till the rotor is well before the cap terminal of the #
1 plug. Turn on the ign, rotate the dist just till the number one plug fires
(which you have out of the motor connected to the plug wire and cap and in
plain view) at this point you should be within 3 deg of what you will set
timing at with engine running. Even if your not very careful at this
procedure, you will get it close enough to get the motor to start.

Taught to me 20 years ago by a Mr  Amsberry, been using that process ever
since, never had it fail. Thank you Mr Amsberry, what a shop teacher your
were.

Erik Marquez
bronco78 alaska.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.home.gci.net/~bronco78
Home of the BB decal




------------------------------

From: "Erik Marquez" <bronco78 alaska.com>
Subject: Re: Torsen "was' New Ford 9"
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:21:51 -0900



-----Original Message-----
From: WillyoumarrymeOX <dahorse jvlnet.com>
Subject: [61-79-list] Torsen "was' New Ford 9"

Gary wrote in part

>> I've never had one or driven with one and am basing this on their hype
and
>> the pictures they sent me to study when I requested an Info Packet so may
>> have missed something that was not apparent in the pictures in which case
I
>> appologize for misleading anyone but I've not heard anything to dispell
this
>> opinion yet??
>>
>> Since I plan to put a true-trak in my van I will be able to give a first
>> hand description of how it works, hopefully this summer.  If the Torsen
>> price has come down much I may be doing that on in the bronco, we'll see
:-)>


Norm replied

>Well Gary..I own one of each here...and the Torsen is a much more
>refined diff than the tru-trac...that said it doesn't work alot
>better...In a rear axle application, if you jack yup one wheel off the
>ground and put the vehichal in gear it will be hard pressed to drive off
>that jack..Now yr right sum stomping on the brake will help lok a wheel
>up....but in most situations the stomping of the brake in a non 4x4
>enviroment will hinder yr forward progress enough (due ta brake
>apllication) too make the sec wheel driving of little use. An auburn or
>a old Spicer Power-lok are much more effciant diffs and have just about
>the same kinda street manners as a torsen....if you would like to see
>how well a Torsen works...ask any Hummer owner that wheels there
>rig....most in time opt to replace the factory installed Torsen diffs
>with Detroits....pounding the brake pedal for sum lok up works to a
>point...but is uesless in most 2x4 applications and on a 4x4 it's plain
>annoying! And all this a matter of opinion basically.....but if ya want
>open diff performance on the street and desire the traction of a locker
>buy a ARB or a cable operated locker..or just learn ta live with the
>small quirks of a real locker.

Erik supplies his $.02

As I happen to "own"  8 HMMWV's and driven another 100 or so, all of which
have been driven and wheeled hard and all have the Torsen diff I can say
they work....but nothing like a Detroit,, ok thats apples to oranges, so how
about this.. One of the techniques I teach my new drivers is when traction
is lost, and forward movement has stopped due to a wheel off the ground,
stomp the brake, TC in low, Trans in 1st, stomp gas (which in a naturally
aspirated GM 6.2 is not much) slowly let up on brake, vehicle will now move
forward due to the dif being loaded and TQ transferred to wheel with ....


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