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Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:06:40 -0500 (EST)
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Subject: 61-79-list Digest V2001 #25
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------------------------------------
61-79-list Digest Thu, 25 Jan 2001 Volume: 2001  Issue: 025

In This Issue:
Re: The man...
Re: The man...
Re: The man...
Re: FUEL INJECTION
Re: The man...
Re: The man...
Re: Tires for 78 F150 4X4
Re: Possible Fuel Problem?
Tranny jumping out of gear
Jubilee
460 cost
Re: The Man
Fuel injection
Re: Possible Fuel Problem?
Re: Jubilee
Fe performance
Re: Jubilee
5.0 controller for 460
Getting even
5.0 controller for 460
Re: fuel injection
Re: Jubilee
Re: Possible Fuel Problem?
Re: Front loaders....
Re: Looking for Magazine article
Re: The Man
Re: Looking for Magazine article(4xconversion)
Re: Possible Fuel Problem?
Re: Fuel injection
Sticker shock
Need a More Power List: Was Possible Fuel Problems
Re: Fuel injection
Re: 5.0 controller for 460
Re: Fuel injection
Re: Mo Powwaaaaaaa Dude :-)
Re: Sticker shock
vin decode
Re: Mo Powwaaaaaaa Dude :-)
Which engine

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" <tim-pam williams-net.com>
Subject: Re: The man...
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:44:04 -0500


I have the same problem with the  police in my town also. they came over to
my house one summer day and started taking pictures of all the (so called)
abandoned cars in my driveway. I told them to get the  h_ _ l   off my
property. all of the cars were licensed,insured & drivable. I told them to
go somewhere else where they were actually needed. I told them that I pay my
TAXES  on  MY property  so they could leave me alone. I only live 1/2 block
from the police station. That will soon change,as they are going to be
moving shortly to a new building.  Just my 2 cents worth.
-----Original Message-----
From: Aeroape82 aol.com <Aeroape82 aol.com>
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:38 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: The man...


>In a message dated 1/23/01 12:11:42 PM Central Standard Time,
>herbie ford-trucks.com writes:
>
>
>> Your not alone.  I have to play stupid little games with the Police
>> Department and the City Zoning Jerks.  Even  though my trucks are
Insured,
>> License and Running, I have to move them around at least  once a week to
>> keep the police and neighbors from thinking they are "abandoned".  If I
try
>> to park any of them along the side of my house in the yard, I get a nice
>> letter from the Zoning Jerks telling me they have to be parked on an
>>
>Like Virgil said I guess you have to live in the country or live in a small
>town in up state NY wher thier is no one really to complain.  Niceties of
>living in a real small town.
>
>
>Glenn  NY
>
>78 F-250 (talk about projects and headaches)
>
>
>


------------------------------

From: "Keith" <a2jkeith gci.net>
Subject: Re: The man...
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:05:41 -0900


Should move to alaska, aint too many real jerks here, and there is TONS of
room hehe, park em out in a field somewhere, and no one cares lol. The best
state in the nation :o)
Keith
71 F250

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim and Pam Allgire <tim-pam williams-net.com>
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 7:45 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: The man...



>>>
>>Like Virgil said I guess you have to live in the country or live in a
small
>>town in up state NY wher thier is no one really to complain.  Niceties of
>>living in a real small town.
>>
>>
>>Glenn  NY



------------------------------

From: "Erik Marquez" <bronco78 alaska.com>
Subject: Re: The man...
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:29:34 -0900


I'll second that

Erik Marquez
bronco78 alaska.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.home.gci.net/~bronco78
Home of the BB decal
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith <a2jkeith gci.net>
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 9:07 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: The man...


>
>Should move to alaska, aint too many real jerks here, and there is TONS of
>room hehe, park em out in a field somewhere, and no one cares lol. The best
>state in the nation :o)
>Keith
>71 F250
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tim and Pam Allgire <tim-pam williams-net.com>
>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
>Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 7:45 PM
>Subject: [61-79-list] Re: The man...
>
>
>
>>>>
>>>Like Virgil said I guess you have to live in the country or live in a
>small
>>>town in up state NY wher thier is no one really to complain.  Niceties of
>>>living in a real small town.
>>>
>>>
>>>Glenn  NY
>
>
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 06:58:39 -0600
From: Steve Schaefer <schaefer PLASTEKGROUP.COM>
Subject: Re: FUEL INJECTION


Jason,

I started with a 460 that had no wiring at all with it.  Form there, I installed the 5.0 wiring harness.  I had to make a new harness to run from the distributor to the control module (which I mounted on the driver side fender well to keep it cool).  The rest of the wiring harness more or less laid right out in the engine compartment.  With the battery on the passenger side and the MAF on the driver side (in the Mustang it is opposite).  This puts the computer in the cab just to
the left of the steering column.  There are a total of 4 connectors that must be tied into the truck.  1 is by the computer.  That 1 gets switched power, and goes to the fuel pump.  The other 3 connector are in the engine compartment.  1 goes to the O2 sensors, and gauges.  1 goes  to the neutral safety switch and Vehicle Speed Sensor (need to get that too off the Mustang, late 80's early 90's will work with the 3 speed trannies).  The other connector goes to the 12v constant, and
start circuit.  A little creativity was required for the intake tube.  There is 1 MAF ( I used a 73mm Vortech w/24 lb injector tube) and 2 intake tubes to the motor.  I have a couple of pieces of PVC pipe for that.  Crude but effective.  As for the fuel lines, I am using a combo of newer stock lines and steel. I used a pump from an 89 Crewcab 460 truck (mounts on the frame rail just outside of the tank).  You could also get a tank from a newer truck with the lines.  The frames are
the same width.  The tank would go right in.

I have removed the EGR, and all of the "extra" vacuum solenoids.  I am not running any cats.  I am running a Chris Johnson chip.  I do have an "idiot" light for the check engine light.  I still have the EEC check plug to use for trouble shooting.

I did the same conversion on my 514 in my Bird, but I made my own intake and used custom made fuel lines.  Again I used a Chris Johnson chip.  To give you an idea, it is running a 90 mm MAF, a 90 mm T/B, 42lb injectors, and a custom tunnel ram style intake.  I am getting away with 11 to 1 compression, and almost .600 lift (non roller) cam.  I can run 94 octane with out a problem.

Like it was said before, the factory addes a lot of safty factors into the computer.  This way the vehicle can take 100,000 of outright abuse.  The only problem I have had is that both of them tend to be a slight pig when cold.  Not bad, but it is noticable.  On average I get about 15 mpg with the crewcab.  I could care less about the mpg for the bird, becuase the smiles per gallon is much better (nothing like standing on the gas at 40 mph and letting a set of 18.50 wide Mickey
Thompsons go up in smoke)

If you have any other question, just ask.

Steve S.
54 F-100
76 F-350 Crew cab
77 F-250 Supercab
79 Bronco
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/8663/



>
>
> > I have a 5.0
> > computer controlling a 460 in my Crew cab (stock 96 460 injection)
> I'd like to hear more about this.  With the difficulty of finding Mass Air
> 460's in wrecking yards around here (and the abundance of 5.0 system parts
> that I have), this could work good for what I want to do.
>


------------------------------

From: "Ann Wasserman" <meshugga prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: The man...
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:05:04 -0800

There is no jerks because they are committing suicide, where it is the highest in the country!!   How do the old vehicles due as far as rust out there?  I know there is lots of snow but so does SD and there vehicles stay pretty preserved so to speak.  Annie
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Keith
 To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:05 PM
 Subject: [61-79-list] Re: The man...



 Should move to alaska, aint too many real jerks here, and there is TONS of
 room hehe, park em out in a field somewhere, and no one cares lol. The best
 state in the nation :o)
 Keith
 71 F250

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Tim and Pam Allgire <tim-pam williams-net.com>
 To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
 Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 7:45 PM
 Subject: [61-79-list] Re: The man...



 >>>
 >>Like Virgil said I guess you have to live in the country or live in a
 small
 >>town in up state NY wher thier is no one really to complain.  Niceties of
 >>living in a real small town.
 >>
 >>
 >>Glenn  NY





------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: The man...
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:03:51 -0800


What about emissions laws?

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> Should move to alaska, aint too many real jerks here, and there is TONS of
> room hehe, park em out in a field somewhere, and no one cares
> lol. The best
> state in the nation :o)
> Keith
> 71 F250


------------------------------

From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: Re: Tires for 78 F150 4X4
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:05:03 -0800 (PST)


Kirk wrote:
> What are the largest size of tires I can put on a 78 F150 4X4
> (stock), I currently have 31's on there now, are 33's possible???

I have 33-12.50's and 15x10 wheels with 4" backspacing on a '74 F-100.
The tires fit fine as long as you stay on flat pavement. :)  IMHO, these
tires are too big and I currently have a set of 16x7 aluminum wheels
that are going to get 265/75-16's.  These would be dimensionally
equivalent to a 32-10.50.

I can't wait to see how this comes out, but right now my priority is
getting my motor back together. :(


Mark in Southwest Washington
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacifier.com/~draco/Truck.html
--
'74 F-100 Ranger XLT 4X4
in digest mode


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Possible Fuel Problem?
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:18:17 -0800


Not "necessarily" true, unfortunately.  I put some bad gas in my truck and
it ran great just long enough to get to a town 30 miles away and start
cutting out on the way home.  Took 40 min to get there and 4 hours to get
back:-(  Forget the filters, everything plugs up, lines, pump, filters,
carb.....the stuff gets through everything sometimes :-(  I'll never take
that chance again and the tank may have to be replaced due to that mistake,
not sure yet.  The gas was very old and in a rusty tank.......BIG MISTAKE!
BTW, the 460 could drink it if I could get it there :-)

If I had to rely on a vehicle to get somewhere and get back and the tank was
suspect I would, at the very least, pull the tank and rinse it out with a
quart of Acetone and replace the sock with a length of brake line then put a
good filter in front of the first pump in the line to protect it.  In my
first intallation I wasn't concerned about the pump (assumed it would be OK)
but wanted to protect the carb so put the filter where "convenient".  Should
have put it before the pump.  Those things are getting more expensive every
day:-(

When I set up a tank now there is no sock, the filter goes ahead of the
electric pump and there is a second filter at the carb.  I use 3/8" minimum
line throughout the system.  I've even heard 1/2" recommended for big block
applications but that would be for competition.  I don't recall ever having
a problem with 3/8".  It would be a mighty hungry 460 that would need more
than that :-)

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> Id siphon out the old gas, and put fresh stuff in, along with a bottle of
> carb cleaner.  But if it runs for the first 15 min, I dont forsee
> much goin
> nutso after that.
>
> Darrell & Tweety
>


------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Tranny jumping out of gear
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:18:06 -0600

Bill writes:  >>Am I due a rebuild or new transmission?<<

One or the other.  Your transmission has worn syncronizers in it,
and since it has been doing it "for some time", you may have other
damage.  A teardown/inspection is in order..

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Jubilee
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:34:10 -0600

Anne writes:  >> one day I decided to ride down the main drag in town with my
53 Ford golden Jubilee tractor<<

What part of NJ was this??   A Ford Jubuilee is quite common here for the
weekend farmer(actually gardners), but I'm kinda surprised about having
one in Metropolitan NJ!!  Not making fun or anything, but surprising to me
non the less..

You certainly have a fine list of FOMOCO goodies..

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: 460 cost
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:53:52 -0600

Ox writes:  >>can get 3-4 running 460's within a couple hours
driving distance for 700$ or less. <<

I found one at my favorite yard yesterday for $150 and that is from the
air cleaner to the oil pan and from the fan to the flywheel.  All accessories
and brackets in tact and on motor.  He pulled it from a '77 town car that
was driven into his lot. I know I probably can't use all the brackets and
accesories from the car, but I ,ight have a use for them at some time later.
He guarnteed it - No smoke - no knocks - no cracks.
He told me that since the price of gas had skyrocketed that he couldn't
give those old big motors away.
HE HE HE HE  Little does he know..
Now I gotta get out there and start tearing it down..  Gonna go completely
through it anyway..

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:03:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Brett Habben <bhabben juno.com>
Subject: Re: The Man


Folks,
Just for my education, what level of government is imposing these statutes?
I live in the country, but we have 'neighborhood associations' that can make
life a living hell by continuously ratcheting up the quazi 'standards' and
then via harassment.
What parts of the country are the worse? I'll make sure that I never decide
to move to these areas......
Brett




------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Fuel injection
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:02:20 -0600

Anyone ever put a FOMOCO 460 fuel injection from one of todays
more modern trucks onto an older 460??  Anyone know what all
has to be changed as far as the engine itself is concerned(hard parts)??
I know you'd have to adopt the late model Computer/wiring/sensors,
and all electrically, but I wondered about mecnanics changes...
Anyone ever adopted the later model serpentine belt system to an
older 460??
Since I'm in the complete teardown mode anyway I was just wondering
about these things..

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:05:40 -0600
From: PostalJeepsRulE <dahorse jvlnet.com>
Subject: Re: Possible Fuel Problem?


My 514 would suck a 3/8 line dry under WOT by 5,400RPM...thats with a
high end electric moving the fuel. But since the swap to 1/2 it buzzzes
sweetly ta 6,800 with a out a whimper.

Norm



GaryBBB wrote:

> When I set up a tank now there is no sock, the filter goes ahead of the
> electric pump and there is a second filter at the carb.  I use 3/8" minimum
> line throughout the system.  I've even heard 1/2" recommended for big block
> applications but that would be for competition.  I don't recall ever having
> a problem with 3/8".  It would be a mighty hungry 460 that would need more
> than that :-)
>
> --
> Happily Retired (but broke)
> Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
> 78 Bronco Loving, Gary

------------------------------

From: "Ann Wasserman" <meshugga prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Jubilee
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:47:30 -0800

It was in Wanaque NJ, 35 minutes to the GW bridge, or New York City, if that gives ya an idea. We have lots of weekend gardners, no farmers, not many tractors period. But just 15 minutes away in West Milford NJ I rent 30 acres, with a 4 car garage, I hide alot of my ford trucks and parts trucks in the woods there. Have a Harry ferguson tractor( T20) with front end loader also.   I can for instance lift up a front rear, if I need drums for one of the trucks and the tractors come in handy.  Actually so does the plow frame on my 85 bronco, you cant belive the things I can lift up off the ground when I put a chain to that there hydrolic lifter upper thing for the plow. Annie
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Azie L. Magnusson
 To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
 Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 7:34 AM
 Subject: [61-79-list] Jubilee


 Anne writes:  >> one day I decided to ride down the main drag in town with my
 53 Ford golden Jubilee tractor<<

 What part of NJ was this??   A Ford Jubuilee is quite common here for the
 weekend farmer(actually gardners), but I'm kinda surprised about having
 one in Metropolitan NJ!!  Not making fun or anything, but surprising to me
 non the less..

 You certainly have a fine list of FOMOCO goodies..

 Azie Magnusson
 Ardmore, Al.




------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Fe performance
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:39:41 -0600

Michael writes:  >>I've recently done a 360 2v into 390 4v conversion
and can honestly say there was a noticeable difference. It was about
1,000 miles after the rebuild/conversion when I removed the entire
stock exhaust system and replaced it with full length Hooker Comp
headers with high flow exhaust. There was another noticeable
difference after the exhaust improvements<<

It has been said many times on this list by me and others::::  The best
performance gain for the money on any FE is on the exhaust side..  The
FE does not breathe very well with factory cast manifolds except maybe
for the Y type shortie cast iron headers used on the early
HP 352's/390's/406's/427's & 428's..and I believe they were called
manifolds by FOMOCO..  I also agree that the difference between a
360 and a 390 is very noticeable - all else remaining constant..

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:52:23 -0800 (PST)
From: James Oxley <joxenburger yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Jubilee


> But just 15 minutes away in West Milford NJ I rent
30 > acres, with a 4 car garage, I hide alot of my
ford > trucks and parts trucks in the woods there.

Where exactly did you say that was again, LOL!!!

                              OX



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://auctions.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: 5.0 controller for 460
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:49:48 -0600

Jason D. writes:  >>I'd like to hear more about this.  With the difficulty of finding Mass Air
460's in wrecking yards around here (and the abundance of 5.0 system parts
that I have), this could work good for what I want to do<<

So would I..

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Getting even
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:59:31 -0600

Darrell writes:  >>If said neighbor causin trouble is any bit of
mechanically inclined, a small amount of used oil, dribbled on the spot they
usually park (right after they leave is best)  I watched a guy tear the whole
front end of his 350 off tryin to find "the leak,"  Ended up goin to the shop
cuz tardo broke some bolts off in the block.  If anyone wants to know why I
felt this guy deserved this, email me off list, I'm more than happy to
explain it.<<

Man!!! Talk about getting even...  And then some IMHO..


Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:27:52 -0800 (PST)
From: James Oxley <joxenburger yahoo.com>
Subject: 5.0 controller for 460





Jason D. writes:  >>I'd like to hear more about this.
>With the difficulty of finding Mass Air
> 460's in wrecking yards around here (and the
>abundance of 5.0 system parts
>that I have), this could work good for what I want to
do<<

Did the 460 ever come with mass air?? My 95 didn't.
Did Ca. trucks have it?

                           OX

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://auctions.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

From: "Michael Ray Jones" <mjones lcc.net>
Subject: Re: fuel injection
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:38:37 -0600

I saw an article in either the January or February 2001 Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords comparing intake manifolds.  They compared the Cobra and GT40 intakes with a 4bbl intake that had been modified to accept factory Ford fuel injectors.  With the brains taken from a salvaged mustang, that could be a pretty good way to add FI.


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Jubilee
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:51:04 -0800


Just been thinking the same thing :-)  Stick a lift arm on there like an
engine hoist and keep the yard straightened up or pull fence posts etc...
:-)

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> Actually so does the plow
> frame on my 85 bronco, you cant belive the things I can lift up
> off the ground when I put a chain to that there hydrolic lifter
> upper thing for the plow. Annie


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Possible Fuel Problem?
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:51:08 -0800


I was hoping someone would respond with some real life experience with this.
I've always wondered where the limit was :-)  This may be something to keep
in mind for my next build :-)

I know my 460 runs out of steam very early but assumed it was due to the cam
and carb tune (and still do believe that :-)) but after adding the roller
cam with more duration and higher lift and an intake worthy of that cam I
may find other bottle necks such as this :-)

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> My 514 would suck a 3/8 line dry under WOT by 5,400RPM...thats with a
> high end electric moving the fuel. But since the swap to 1/2 it buzzzes
> sweetly ta 6,800 with a out a whimper.
>
> Norm


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Front loaders....
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:51:10 -0800


I've even been thinking about building my own HiLo attachment for the plow
truck since I have a heavy duty storage space above my white room where I
could store engines etc..  I've got a bunch of axles and transmissions up
there now but couldn't get the engine hoist high enough to get the 460 up
there.  A low mast, high lift HiLo arrangement would be perfect for my place
:-)  If I look around I could probably find a mast assy already to mount,
eh?  Might have to upgrade the plow power supply though :-)

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> Harry ferguson tractor( T20) with front end loader also.   I can
> for instance lift up a front rear, if I need drums for one of the


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:55:42 -0800
Subject: Looking for Magazine article
From: Don <duckdon mac.com>


Hey all

   I am looking for the Aug. 2000 issue of Petersen's 4Wheel&Off-Road.
Anyone have this issue?  What I am after is the second part of the 2wd-4wd
conversion.

TIA
--
Don Grossman
duckdon mac.com


------------------------------

From: "Daniel Beiers" <dbeiers rmpprestress.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for Magazine article
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:03:29 -0700


ooh, I think I have that, I will look for it.

are you going this?  I have been thinking about it but you really need to
lift the truck up there.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: 61-79-list-bounce ford-trucks.com
[mailto:61-79-list-bounce ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 11:56 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com; offroad-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [61-79-list] Looking for Magazine article



Hey all

   I am looking for the Aug. 2000 issue of Petersen's 4Wheel&Off-Road.
Anyone have this issue?  What I am after is the second part of the 2wd-4wd
conversion.

TIA
--
Don Grossman
duckdon mac.com




------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:03:15 -0800
Subject: Re: Looking for Magazine article(4xconversion)
From: Don <duckdon mac.com>


Ya, thinking about it.  Just one more project on the plate.  The first
article said that about 6" was needed which would work out just about right
for me.



on 1/25/01 12:03 PM, Daniel Beiers at dbeiers rmpprestress.com wrote:

>
> ooh, I think I have that, I will look for it.
>
> are you going this?  I have been thinking about it but you really need to
> lift the truck up there.
>
> Dan
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Hey all
>
> I am looking for the Aug. 2000 issue of Petersen's 4Wheel&Off-Road.
> Anyone have this issue?  What I am after is the second part of the 2wd-4wd
> conversion.

> Don Grossman


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:18:11 -0500
From: "Huston, Virgil H." <vhhuston switch.com>
Subject: Re: The Man


Well, it depends. For the neighborhood associations you speak of, usually
when you buy a house in one of these communities you have to agree to the
covenents, so you know what you are getting into. There are these upscale
communities in coastal South Carolina where you can't even have a child's
swingset and all vechicles must be in a garage. They don't even like the
residents to drive an old car or even a newer truck. The only trucks welcome
are those driven by workers coming into the community to work, then leave -
can't have those low class people around.

For other cases, it is local city/county governments. The chicken farmers
around where I live have a saying - be first and be right. It is ridiculous
when a subdivision goes up in the country next to a chicken farm and then
the people moving there complain about the odor and want the farm removed.
In some cases, the farmer actually loses. Same goes for junkyards or people
who have lived there for generations and have vechicles sitting around.

Virgil


> Folks,
> Just for my education, what level of government is imposing these
> statutes?
> I live in the country, but we have 'neighborhood associations' that can
> make
> life a living hell by continuously ratcheting up the quazi 'standards' and
> then via harassment.
> What parts of the country are the worse? I'll make sure that I never
> decide
> to move to these areas......
> Brett
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Montana Mark" <big78ford home.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for Magazine article(4xconversion)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:47:11 -0700


Hey Don,
I've got that issue right here.  Let me know what you need.
Montana Mark
1978 Ford F150 4x4  "The Great Pumpkin"
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.members.home.net/big78ford


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:08:06 -0600
From: PostalJeepsRulE <dahorse jvlnet.com>
Subject: Re: Possible Fuel Problem?


Gary...I doubt you will ever have to worry about fuel starvation with
anything you were gonna build ta drive daily. And I dunno why ya wanna
run a roller cam....for the money yr gonna spend seems a large waste on
a street engine...not to mention the extra valve train issues......etc.
Hell ya could build a sec stock motor for what that roller will cost
you. I have run both flat tappet and Hyd in all my motors and have never
seen a need ta change from what seems to be a reliable concept...given a
roller can make a few more ponys all being equal....but unless you
exceed 500HP yr not really even leaning on the big blocks capabilities.
My best friend  a huge FE (427) build a 523ci stroker for his dually
last year... 9.5.1, performer RPM intake, a QJ and a mild cam(for the
cubes) and that thing will smoke he duals with the trailer on
back....and will get 11mpg towing a 10,000lb load at 72MPH...all for
less than $2,500 That very tame engine would be awesum in a Bronco..say
goodbye to the 9in immediatly me thinks;-) He has broken the Stearling
axle in dually twice now getting squirrly with it.lol

Norm



GaryBBB wrote:
>
> I was hoping someone would respond with some real life experience with this.
> I've always wondered where the limit was :-)  This may be something to keep
> in mind for my next build :-)
>
> I know my 460 runs out of steam very early but assumed it was due to the cam
> and carb tune (and still do believe that :-)) but after adding the roller
> cam with more duration and higher lift and an intake worthy of that cam I
> may find other bottle necks such as this :-)
>
> --
> Happily Retired (but broke)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:17:31 -0600
From: PostalJeepsRulE <dahorse jvlnet.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel injection


Well I know the front timing cover is diff....as well as the heads...and
of course water pump turns opisit etc.....I would think those all easily
bypassed probs...but I dunno why ya would wanna do it...anything more
than a VERY mello 460 would over tax the factory injection. If ya have
ta inject it for some reason maybe a custom intake....a fuel door from
BDS and a haltech computer would be good places ta start. Now I know sum
folks have used factory stuff to make em run when tweaked using
aftermarket puters etc...but I wonder how much ya gain vs loose.

Norm
far from an expert..but then I have 3 FI rigs here and I like the carbed
ones much better;-)


"Azie L. Magnusson" wrote:
>
> Anyone ever put a FOMOCO 460 fuel injection from one of todays
> more modern trucks onto an older 460??  Anyone know what all
> has to be changed as far as the engine itself is concerned(hard parts)??
> I know you'd have to adopt the late model Computer/wiring/sensors,
> and all electrically, but I wondered about mecnanics changes...
> Anyone ever adopted the later model serpentine belt system to an
> older 460??
> Since I'm in the complete teardown mode anyway I was just wondering
> about these things..
>
> Azie Magnusson
> Ardmore, Al.

------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Sticker shock
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:34:07 -0600

If you see nervous quivers in this post, please be patient.  I just
suffered a severe case of sticker shock, so to speak.  I called the
local Crane Cams outlet for a price on a Hydraulic Roller Cam and
lifters.  The Cam would cost me $325 and the lifters would cost me
another $440.  They also recommend roller tip rockers and their
springs and locks.  I didn't bother pricing the roller tipped rockers
and the springs.  They are most probably very proud of them also.
Just so happens I know the owner and I told him I didn't think I was
that interested.  He also runs a 460 in his race car hauler..
I expected a substancial increase in price over a standard Hyd, but I
think that is ridiculuously high.  I won't live long enough to get that
kind of benefit from it.

OK..  I'm off my soapbox now.  Gotta research which Hydraulic cam
I'm going to settle for..Gotta get that 460 going

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: SevnD2 aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:10:54 EST
Subject: Need a More Power List: Was Possible Fuel Problems


In a message dated 01/25/2001 5:25:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dahorse jvlnet.com writes:

<< And I dunno why ya wanna
run a roller cam....for the money yr gonna spend seems a large waste on
a street engine... >>

Don't try to convince someone that they just don't need more power! ;-)  They
have already justified it to themselves. They have a help me or get out of my
way frame of mind.

I never figured out what is wrong with having too much power. Well, except
with the low mpg I get.  ;-)

Rollie

------------------------------

From: "Jason Derra" <derrar internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel injection
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:38:09 -0800




> but I dunno why ya would wanna do it...anything more
> than a VERY mello 460 would over tax the factory injection.
With a Mass Air Flow system, the factory Ford EFI is very flexible in
dealing with engine mods.
And it can be done without changing the computer parameters, although it
does help for fine tuning.
I know of one guy that is running a 521? CI with a stock 460 MAF computer.
The only changes that were made were a higher output fuel pump and the next
size larger (from stock) injectors.

Jason
'69 Bronco 5.0 HO EFI, NP435
'96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke
'77 F150 4WD 429
"As fast as necessary, as slow as possible"





------------------------------

From: "Jason Derra" <derrar internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: 5.0 controller for 460
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:40:07 -0800



>  Did the 460 ever come with mass air?? My 95 didn't.
> Did Ca. trucks have it?

'96-97 Ca that I know of for sure.  Maybe 95 too, but I'm not sure.

Jason
'69 Bronco 5.0 HO EFI, NP435
'96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke
'77 F150 4WD 429
"As fast as necessary, as slow as possible"



------------------------------

From: "Jason Derra" <derrar internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel injection
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:49:55 -0800




> Anyone ever put a FOMOCO 460 fuel injection from one of todays
> more modern trucks onto an older 460??
I've seen a few done.  I swapped the Mustang fuel injection over to a 302.
Basically the same.

> Anyone know what all has to be changed as far as the engine itself is
concerned(hard parts)??
Upper and lower intake and distributor.  You would have to make some
provision for a O2 sensor.
I installed aftermarket headers and welded bungs into the collectors ($10)
I'm sure there is something I'm forgetting.


> I know you'd have to adopt the late model Computer/wiring/sensors,
> and all electrically,
This is pretty easy.  You need a 12V source, ign source, and a crank and run
source for power.  And a good, clean ground source.  If you want more info,
let me know.

Jason
'69 Bronco 5.0 HO EFI, NP435
'96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke
'77 F150 4WD 429
"As fast as necessary, as slow as possible"



------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Mo Powwaaaaaaa Dude :-)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:55:55 -0800


I may be in the same boat Azie is when I actually get ready to do this and
chicken out but I really want to try it once because, theoretically, there
should be a huge difference in low end torque simply by switching to a
roller arangement with it's built in short ramp and higher lift capability.
Obviously you would take advantage of the added lift capability within the
same over all open duration, ramp edge to ramp edge which actually gives you
considerably more wide open valve time for the same duration which means
more effiecient filling at low speeds and less duration required for the
same output etc.....(theoretically).  With me it's just a tech thing sort of
like always wanting to own a Jag V-12 OHC of mid 60's vintage.  A real pain
to keep in top form but lots of fun from a mechanical complexity standpoint
and loads of fun when they come on the pipe in perfect tune......But....

I may be able to have just as much fun with a flat hydraulic setup too, now
that I'm retired....:-)  Maybe I'll get my kicks in some other area of the
vehicle once I actually price all the parts, as Azie just did :-)  Fact is,
a stock 460 in a bronco is pretty awesome.  Make it purr too much and you
will spend most of your time in the shop replacing axles.

Did I ever tell you guys about a fellow I met who was into mudding?  He
started with a F-250 with 351M and C-6 with dana 60 axles and hopped up the
351 and added Nitrous.  He said it worked pretty well with that setup so he
stuck a 460 in it but kept the nitrous and couldn't get through a single run
because he kept breaking axles so he took the nitrous off and claimed that
it did better than the nitrous 351, overall.  Now, I'm not sure what kind of
tune he had on it either but I thought that was interesting anyway.  He got
so tired of breaking axles he went to the Military axles on his next build
but I never saw him again so don't know how it turned out :-)  Been looking
at those myself....the diff housing is turned 90 degrees so there is lots of
ground clearance with them too and for lifting they're great because the
pinion input is on top of the whole thing......just a thought :-)  Pretty
cheap too but only comes with one ratio, Bummer!

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> << And I dunno why ya wanna
>  run a roller cam....for the money yr gonna spend seems a large waste on
>  a street engine... >>
>
> Don't try to convince someone that they just don't need more
> power! ;-)  They
> have already justified it to themselves. They have a help me or
> get out of my
> way frame of mind.


------------------------------

From: "GaryBBB" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Sticker shock
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:06:46 -0800


Compared to my last price check, the flat tappet cams run around $100 and
new stock lifters run about $60/set.  Springs are pretty cheap comparatively
speaking so maybe a retired guy will have to lower his sights a tad, eh?  I
know I will have to give up a lot of something to find that kind of cash but
it still might be worth it in the long run.....I think more research on the
principles involved (advantages hoped to be gained) might be in order before
making my final decision :-)

Decent roller rockers though aren't too bad at around $300/set (as I recall)
and that's for pretty good ones.  A guy might be able to swing those to save
the valve guides on a refurbished head.....not for the power gain.

One thing about a $100 cam is that you can throw it away if it doesn't do
the job and try another one.  For $325 you might not be willing to
experiment:-)

--
Happily Retired (but broke)
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

> If you see nervous quivers in this post, please be patient.  I just
> suffered a severe case of sticker shock, so to speak.  I called the
> local Crane Cams outlet for a price on a Hydraulic Roller Cam and
> lifters.  The Cam would cost me $325 and the lifters would cost me
> another $440.  They also recommend roller tip rockers and their
> springs and locks.  I didn't bother pricing the roller tipped rockers
> and the springs.


------------------------------

From: "Phil" <imstobu adelphia.net>
Subject: vin decode
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:16:37 -0500

I just bought a 78 F250 camper special. my id number book only goes to 72, was wondering if anyone could tell me what they are. vin is F25JCBB****, the color is- 2U, the trans is-G, axle is-C7J, dso is-14. I already know it is a 460 with auto trans. Any help would be appreciated.

Phil Beattie
63 Mercury comet
66 F100
70 F100
78 F250
91 F150 4x4


------------------------------

From: "John Webster" <jwebster tnt21.com>
Subject: Re: Mo Powwaaaaaaa Dude :-)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:42:51 -0500

If you really want to salivate over a heavy duty set of axles check out www.avalancheengr.com, a custom chrome-moly housing that brings the 21/2 ton Rockwells down to the weight of a Dana 60 and allow you to use regular eight lug hubs and wheel mounted disc brakes. Be still my beating heart.......

John
'77 F150 4X4 466/C6/4:11's/33's

>He got
>so tired of breaking axles he went to the Military axles on his next build
>but I never saw him again so don't know how it turned out :-)  Been looking
>at those myself....the diff housing is turned 90 degrees so there is lots of
>ground clearance with them too and for lifting they're great because the
>pinion input is on top of the whole thing......just a thought :-)  Pretty
>cheap too but only comes with one ratio, Bummer!



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:00:56 -0800
From: scott <scott ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Which engine


I believe the origianal poster has a 360 and would like to upgrade thier
pwer plant.A 390 is the obvious answer and as a 428 owner I believe
a 428 or a 410 bears a little more consideration.
First off a FE family swap ain't even a real swap.Every accesory bolts
on EXACTLY as it came off the smallet FE. This includes upgrades such as
headers,intakes,chrome accessories,that new starter and water pump you
put on 6 months ago,belt,hoses,fan,every thing fits.
I realize any FE larger than a 390 is somewhat rare and expensive.
I also belive that no one gives 460 to FE swap kits away, If I
remember right L&L wants over $500 just for the headers.I paid $139 for
mine.They are not the quality of L&L's but try and find a set of swap
headers for $140.You can also go the junk yard route and get the van pan
etc. to swap a 460 in,but no one gives these parts away and they are ....


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