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Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:00:35 -0500 (EST)
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Subject: 61-79-list Digest V2000 #370
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------------------------------------
61-79-list Digest Sun, 17 Dec 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 370

In This Issue:
Re: 3+1 OD
Re: Overdrive tranny-a little long :)
vacuum canister/vacuum advance
Was OD Tranny, now 460 4speed info
Re: 79 Bronco instrument panel
Re: ENVY'S BOO BOO! =*(
Dana-60 front axle for sale
Re: ENVY'S BOO BOO! , EBrakes
Re: vacuum canister/vacuum advance
Re: Dana-60 front axle for sale
need a 460 manifold
Re: ENVY'S BOO BOO! , EBrakes
Re: C-6 problems  update.
Weirdo '69 VIN
Re: Overdrive tranny
Putput shafts
Re: Putput shafts
When to give up on a project???
Re: When to give up on a project???
'78 dually
Re: '78 dually
Hey Lisa
Re: Hey Lisa
Knock Knock #2
Re: Knock Knock #2
headers and burned valves
Re: When to give up on a project???
Re: headers and burned valves
Re: When to give up on a project???
Re: headers and burned valves
Re: When to give up on a project???

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:02:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Chad Morris <pottymouth2 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 3+1 OD


I have one of these in my '87 F-150 I believe it is
called a "TOD" it is a toploader and it is behind a
300ci engine.  Its a good tranny 175,000 miles and
still works perfect.  These should be easy to find in
the junkyards as even these later model trucks are
beginning to get old.  Good luck.

__________________________________________________
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------------------------------

From: "Jason Derra" <derrar internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: Overdrive tranny-a little long :)
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:41:53 -0800





> The T-18 I put behind my 460 came from behind a 360 in a 73 F-100.  Went
in
> linke it belonged there.
Same with mine.

> One thing I do know is that the FE bellhousing is
> about 3/4 of an inch longer than the 351m/400 bellhousing.
Where is it longer?  Is the input shaft length different as well?  This
would affect where the input shaft rides in the pilot bearing and the clutch
splines.

> Only place it affected me was I had to redrill the holes for my carrier
bearing to make up
> for the differnce.
I didn't notice any length change.  My transfer case mounted in the same
spot on the crossmember as before.

I have heard that there were differences between the car FE trans input
shafts compared to the other engine families, but I had never seen it before
in the trucks.

Jason
'69 Bronco 5.0 HO EFI, NP435
'96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke
"As fast as necessary, as slow as possible"



------------------------------

From: "Bob" <xavetarx home.com>
Subject: vacuum canister/vacuum advance
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:42:06 -0500


Would it be detrimental to put a vacuum canister inline with the vacuum
advance?  I have an F-350 camper special duel piped canister in-between the
vacuum advance and carburetor.

-bob-
79 Bronco 460 44's T18
79 Bronco 400 40's C6



------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:43:30 EST
Subject: Was OD Tranny, now 460 4speed info

In a message dated 12/17/2000 2:28:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
derrar internetcds.com writes:


> Where is it longer?  Is the input shaft length different as well?  This
> would affect where the input shaft rides in the pilot bearing and the clutch
> splines.
>

A.better description would be ithat the FE bell is deeper than the 351m/400.
I didnt have the 400 tranny to compare Shaft lengths.  This is why a 390
clutch will not work in a 351m/400 bellhousing, the fork will hit the
pressure plate before you can get it tight.  When I saw this I got worried,
but measured all the required distances, to make sure nothing would hit
before I tried, but still wasnt sure till I got it bolted up (which I did :))



<I didn't notice any length change.  My transfer case mounted in the same
spot on the crossmember as before.>

This could be due to that fact that I started with an original 460 powered
truck.  Originally was a C-6, but I blew up 2 of em, and bench pressin C-6's
into a truck AINT fun.  I suppose I could've gotten an Art Carr tranny to
hold up ok, but the cost of my swap was considerably less, and my ability to
do burnouts doubled!  Im hoping I dont start another Manual/Auto debate, but
I just prefer a Manual in a truck.  IMHO the benefis outweigh the drawbacks.
All In all it was an easy swap, and aside from redrilling the holes for the
carrier, and also moviing the tranny x-member forward the same 3/4 of an
inch, there was absolutely no fabricating to be done.  The nuts for the
linkage were already welded to the frame, its easy to install a clutch pedal
into the bracketry for the pedals. (the pin that holds the brake pedal is
replaced by the clutch pedal itself)  If anyone out there has any specific
questions, Feel free to holler.  One of these days I'll write that tech
article.  Wanna wait till I have pics to back it up though.

Also on all the talk of OD's, I wanted to add that my bro has one in his 84.
Its smaller in over all girth than the T-18 and NP435,   It is Longer though,
Has a long tailshaft.  When bolted to the bellhousing, it has the same
profile as a C-6 auto (minus the pan of course)  Seems to be plenty beefy,
Its doing just fine behind our monster 300.  The throws are shorter compared
to our beefy trannies, and the shifts are smoother.   I was thinkin of
putting his tranny in my truck, because hes converting over to 4wd, and will
need a tranny with the married Tcase, but I figured I could do better by
installing a higher gear ratio, say 3.50 versus my current 4.10  That way I
can keep my bullet proof T-18.  When the conversion goes through, I'll make
sure you guys get first dibs  :)

Darrell & Tweety



------------------------------

From: "Hogan, Tom (Portland)" <Tom.Hogan kla-tencor.com>
Subject: Re: 79 Bronco instrument panel
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:51:36 -0800



> xavetarx home.com writes:
>
>
> > I've been trying to get the fuel and thermostat gauges
> working.  (Mainly
> > just the fuel, because I already have an aftermarket
> thermostat)  I've
> > replaced the fuel gauge with one from a yard, but that
> probably wasn't
> > necessary because both shoot to FULL when a current is
> passed through them.
> > The ALT and BRAKE lights work, along with the high beam and
> illumination
> > (back) lights... so I'm guessing it's not the fuse.  When I
> looked in my
> > book, there didn't seem to be a fuse for the Fuel gauge.
> The next thing I
> > suppose I should check is the sending unit, but I'm not
> really good with
> > ohmages, amperage, where to place the connectors, etc..  Is
> there anything I
> > might be overlooking here?
> >

My vote is for the IVR (Instrument Voltage Regulator).  Easy to check.  It
works by interrupting the current flow through the guages thus reducing the
power dissipated by the guages and preventing them from burning out.
1. Pull the lead at the temp sensor.
2. Turn the key to the run or acc position.
3. Check the voltage from the wire to the engine block.  It should be a
pulsating voltage not steady state.

You don't mention an oil guage.  Since you do mention an alt light I think
you probably have an oil light.  My 76 schematic indicates that the oil
warning light is not powered off the IVR so it should be working fine.

If you get no voltage at the wire you can get to the IVR by pulling the
instrument cluster.  It is a rectangular silver metal box mounted to the
back of the cluster.  It connects to the foil printed circuit on the back of
the cluster with what looks like 9volt battery connections.  Be very careful
prying the connections off so you don't damage the foil.  It's not terribly
expensive.  I would expect to be able to get one for less than $20.  You may
have to order it at the parts counter though.  I got mine at a Kragen.

While you have the cluster out you can check the sender by finding the wire
for the gas sender (follow the trace from the gas guage on the cluster.)
Check the resistance (ohms) from the wire to a metal point on the dash.  If
the tank is empty you should see around 75 ohms IIRC.  If the tank is empty
you should see low resistance (0-10 ohms).

Good luck

Tom H.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:40:15 -0500
From: David Wadson <wadsond air.on.ca>
Subject: Re: ENVY'S BOO BOO! =*(


>blonde! Anyways, I REALLY mashed the grille shell <chrome part> on the
>passenger side as well as the plastic grille insert behind my light. I
>checked and JC Whitless and the grille molding <mounts above and/or below the
>grille> and the grille shell goes around the headlight openings> are $159.00
>each. I hope I explained it clear. So, my ? is: does anyone happen to have
>one of these laying around that they'd be willing to sell to me for less then
>JC Whitless?? I have not yet made a trip to "Pick a Part" so I thought I'd
>check here first. Thanks y'all! I need to go put a big band aide on Envy

When you hang out long enough at the scrapyards, you begin to recognize
those parts that you should go out of your way to snag for a few bucks the
instance you see them...like intact grill pieces (especially the plastic
parts) before someone else cracks them and you can't find an unbroken one
when you need it. You really must have boxes of parts littering your home
and garage to be a true Ford truck nut. I'm really getting geared up for
buying a house with a garage so I don't have stuff like a steering column
decorating my apartment. (Just kidding...it's hiding under the stairs...).

>now.....bye! Oh on a side note, I let my friend drive Envy for the first time
>last night *almost died* but anyhoo, SHE DROVE ALL THE WAY HOME <10 MILES!>
>WITH THE E-BRAKE ON! Yes, I have done this once before a long time ago but I
>am just curious, I know this definitely IS NOT a good thing for the brakes
>but I wanna know if I should have my dad check 'em just to be safe or is it
>really not that big of deal.......brakes worked fine on me today. I am just
>afraid one day there will be no brakes or somethin!?!?

:-) Did the same thing Saturday though it was probably more than 10 miles!
Other than stretching out the e-brake cable and wearing your pads a little
bit, probably not much wrong. I was starting to wonder what the funny smell
in my truck was then I noticed the brake was on...good thing it was really
snowy and I wasn't going at highway speed all the way home.

On a somewhat related note, we got a really messy dump of snow up
here....4x4s kick ass! Hopefully I'm never stuck driving a 2WD all winter
long. It was so nice to not have to fight to get traction everywhere I
went, especially the road to the inlaws house. The truck shifted great from
2H to 4H and back - seems to only want to grind the gears when switching
the t-case into neutral or 4L and back. Only dissappointment is that once
you get the trucking rolling you have to keep switching back into 2H if you
want to gun it and start spinning the back end around - SWMBO really hates
it when I do that :-)  Other than the freezing cold, the horrible knock in
my engine and the crappy mileage, I'm almost liking winter. Now if only I
had a plow so I wouldn't have to shovel the driveway...


David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
"PS1" - 79 F100 ...ground into a million pieces.
"PS2" - 78 F100 ...currently alive and kicking.
"PS3" - 79 F150 4x4 ...now what have I gotten myself into...
Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 23:28:28 -0500
From: Tony Marino <redneck raex.com>
Subject: Dana-60 front axle for sale


I was just reading on the list that a few people have been looking for a
front dana-60 axle.. I don't like plugging my own sales, but figured it's
helping out fellow FTE'ers.  8-)  (my pathetic attempt at
justification)   I know a few guys were asking me when I'd finally put that
sucker up for sale- so I did.

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=528770128

Tony Marino
redneck raex.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ceoweb.mts.kent.edu/~mustang/trucks.html


------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: ENVY'S BOO BOO! , EBrakes
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:19:03 -0800


Sorry to interrupt here but......I saw a duecandahalf catch fire when a
trainee left the ebrake on and drove it a couple of blocks to the car wash
(truck wash) on post.  If the E-brake is on hard enough it will get very hot
and can destroy the drums and shoes as well as start fires and do other
nasty things so.......

Happily Semi-Retired,
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> >WITH THE E-BRAKE ON! Yes, I have done this once before a long time ago
but I
> >am just curious, I know this definitely IS NOT a good thing for the
brakes
>
> :-) Did the same thing Saturday though it was probably more than 10 miles!
> Other than stretching out the e-brake cable and wearing your pads a little
> bit, probably not much wrong.


------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: vacuum canister/vacuum advance
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:25:12 -0800


The signal to the dizzy needs to be instant.  The canister acts like an
"Accumulator" or "Capacitor" and buffers the signals so the dizzy will only
see some kind of average rather than the peaks and valleys it's supposed to.
Either use ported or manifold vac but run the line direct with no other
peripherals on the line if you want decent performance.

Happily Semi-Retired,
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> Would it be detrimental to put a vacuum canister inline with the vacuum
> advance?  I have an F-350 camper special duel piped canister in-between
the
> vacuum advance and carburetor.



------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Dana-60 front axle for sale
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:40:13 -0800


Wish I had the cash, I suddenly have HD fever :-)  We've had about 8-10" of
snow so far and now the wind is blowing and drifting like mad.  Of course,
under the snow is a solid 3" of ice except on main roads.  The HD brakes on
the larger axles certainly have their merits......I can only dream of 13"
drums on my bronco :-)  Someday.......:-)

Happily Semi-Retired,
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> I was just reading on the list that a few people have been looking for a
> front dana-60 axle.. I don't like plugging my own sales, but


------------------------------

From: "tony something" <tonysjunk hotmail.com>
Subject: need a 460 manifold
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 06:48:53 -0000


Hey guys, I recently aquired a '74 F250, 460, and need an aluminum intake
for it.  I would prefer a street legal one, but anything will do.  The
manifold that is on the truck now is set up for Ford's answer to the
quadrajunk, and the secondaries alignment look kinda suspicious.  I dumped
the spreadbore in lieu of a 4160 Holley, but would like to change the
manifold out to a square bore one so I can use the correct EGR plate.  Plus
knowing that the the fuel passing through the secondaries isnt having to
make extra turns bends and other not so kind things will make me sleep
better at night.  anyhoo, if you have something sitting in your garage that
you want to get rid of, contact me off list, but if you have thoughts or
ideas as to why the setup I have now is okay, the input would still be
apreciated.

Thanks

Tony
Tonysjunk hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://explorer.msn.com


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 06:32:22 -0500
From: David Wadson <wadsond air.on.ca>
Subject: Re: ENVY'S BOO BOO! , EBrakes


>Sorry to interrupt here but......I saw a duecandahalf catch fire when a
>trainee left the ebrake on and drove it a couple of blocks to the car wash
>(truck wash) on post.  If the E-brake is on hard enough it will get very hot
>and can destroy the drums and shoes as well as start fires and do other
>nasty things so.......

I never had that happen in my 2WD but I did have a funny burning smell
coming from the 4x4 when I did it the other day. Perhaps had it been a hot
summer day it could have been a little more exciting.  Really surprised I
left it on...I've gotten pretty good at remembering to take it off. I
mostly use it out of a nagging fear that the day that I don't my
transmission will give out and my truck will roll into my boss' car in the
parking lot... :-)


David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
"PS1" - 79 F100 ...ground into a million pieces.
"PS2" - 78 F100 ...currently alive and kicking.
"PS3" - 79 F150 4x4 ...now what have I gotten myself into...
Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:55:41 -0600
From: Steve Schaefer <schaefer PLASTEKGROUP.COM>
Subject: Re: C-6 problems  update.



Well gang, I am throwing in the towel.
I will give you guys an update on the Bronco with the tranny that will
not shift back into drive once put into reverse when warm.  This past
weekend, I adjusted the band again, pulled the intermediate servo,
cleaned and reinstalled.  I swapped valvebodies.  I air checked all of
the passages, and nothing has cleared up.

I have pulled 1 of my spare 4wd trannies of the shelf and I will be
rebuilding this week.  I will be swapping the tranny either next
weekend, or the week after.

I am starting to beleive that since this truck sat for awhile, that
maybe I have a dried and cracked foward clutch seal.  At least I will
feel better about having a known tranny in the truck.  Oh well, not
looking foward to the tranny swap.

Steve S.
54 F-100
76 F-350 Crew cab
77 F-250 Supercab
79 Bronco
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/8663/




------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:51:45 -0600
From: John Strauss <jstrauss inetport.com>
Subject: Weirdo '69 VIN


Hey, anybody else own a '69 truck with the VIN serial number starting with
a "G"?  I bought a '69 Ranger this weekend and this is the VIN:
F10HKG12468.  Now, my Ford Pickup Red Book AND my Ford Pickup ID Numbers
book say there is no such thing.  They show that '69 VINs go up to F63,999.
However, they also both agree that 1970 VINs start with G30,000.  That's a
big gap.  Are these books wrong?  Did Ford maybe make way more '69 trucks
than they planned?

You will have to take my word for it that this truck appears to be
original.  For sure it is the original paint and has the correct engine for
the VIN and everything else on the VIN plate matches (color, axle, trans,
etc.).  This has to be a late '69 because it has the rear side marker light
inset in the upper moulding line like the '70-'72 trucks had.  I have seen
one other '69 like this before so at least mine is not the ONLY one.

Anybody else got one like this?
  _
_| ~~.  John Strauss
\, *_}  jstrauss inetport.com
  \(    Texas Fight!


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:57:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Brett Habben <bhabben juno.com>
Subject: Re: Overdrive tranny


Dave,
I was gonna shoot you over to www.advanceadapters.com but they've changed
their catalog and apparently no longer include the nifty tranny chart with
all the dimensions.  Maybe someone should 'update' the chart and submit it
to Ken to include with the FAQ's or tech pages.
Another thought if you want the OD effect and have a 9-inch rear is to swap
out the center section for one with a lower numerical gear ratio.  That is
by far the easiest.  Especially if you are the average gearhead and
accumulated a pumpkin assortment to choose from.
Brett
>Does anybody know of some sort of reference that would tell me >what
trannys
>swap with what? I have a NP435 behind my 390, and I find that >granny low
is
>useless, the 390 has enough torque to take off in 3rd. I wish >there was
>some way to get one of the six speeds out of the new >powerstrokes behind
>it, those are awesome.
>Dave Oneal <dave davesmonsterpit.com>




------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Putput shafts
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:03:43 -0600

Bill B. . writes:  >>Heh...heh...putput shafts...sorry I just found that humorous...<<

Bet you folks didn't know about those putput shafts, Huh!!!
Hope everyone knows I hit the "P" rather than the "O" there.  Fingers mind about like wife does.

Should be output shaft.
Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: "Bill Beyer" <bbeyer pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Putput shafts
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:25:19 -0800

I thought puput shafts were only found on Briggs & Stratton engine...

/// Friends help you move...Real friends help you move bodies \\

----- Original Message -----
From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 7:03 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] Putput shafts


> Bill B. . writes:  >>Heh...heh...putput shafts...sorry I just found that
humorous...<<
>
> Bet you folks didn't know about those putput shafts, Huh!!!
> Hope everyone knows I hit the "P" rather than the "O" there.  Fingers mind
about like wife does.




------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:00:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Finn <ecfinn yahoo.com>
Subject: When to give up on a project???


Well it seems like I've done it again.  My "New" '79 F-350 looks to need
more work for inspection than I can afford to spend right now.  I took it
to a local shop last week to have them fix the gas-tank and put in new
exhaust pipes since the old ones are rusted out.  Its starting to look
like I made a bad decision in purchasing this truck.  How do you know when
to get out before "spending good money after bad"?

So far I've got the following into it.

$1200 purchase price
$350 rear drums/pads/bearings
$150 PA registration
$50 tuneup (cap/rotor/wires/filters)
--------------------------
$1850 Total spent to date

The run-down of what it still needs is as follows:
1. Windshield - Tried to get it replaced Friday but the used glass broke
on installation.  I was told that the pinch welds were shot in most places
and that because of this I'd either need some serious body work or have to
put up with water leaks.  I can get a new one installed for $150.
2. The brakes are still hard as a rock and I don't know how to
troubleshoot the problem.  Could still be anything.
3. Gas Tank - I know we discussed this before but this shop keeps telling
me they need to fabricate something completely new for this since the tank
was originally held in with a full metal "cradle" and not just straps.
They said "It could take up to a full day to fix."  I find this completely
ridiculous but I've got nothing to back it up.
4.  Steering - I need a new dropped drag link and the best price I've
found is $120.
5. Exhaust - I need new pipes from the manifold back to the vertical stack
behind the cab.  I've got no idea how much this should cost. I just spoke
with the shop and his preliminary estimate was $4-500.  Ouch!
6. Floor - It has a few holes in the floor and this shop said they'd need
to fix it before inspecting it.  They were covered with a piece of
aluminum temporarily.

I figure I'm going to have to spend at least another $600 just to fix the
windshield, exhaust, and steering.  And this doesn't even include the
brakes or gas tank that will need addressed prior to inspection.

Is this too much for this truck?  Should I cut my losses and salvage the
usuable parts like the axles, engine/trans, etc?  I'm thinking that this
truck is not worth more than $2500 even if I do fix everything.

Anyone in the Philly PA area know of any good places to go to get these
things taken care of less expensively?

As you can see I'm getting a bit philosophical at the moment.  [Banging
head against wall]  I haven't put any money into any parts of the truck
that I'd be junking just yet.  If the truck's not going to be worth it
then I'll probably just keep the parts and start over again on a new
winter vehicle.

Any and all help/advice/opinions/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
BTW you can see the truck at the following web address...

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superford.org/cgi-bin/sf.cgi?uid=default&vr2=1&ID=1340

Later,

Eric Finn (getting poorer the deeper he gets into his Fords...)
'78 Bronco "The Beast" (Project stalled)
'79 F-350 4x4 "Fred"

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://shopping.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

From: "Southerland, Rich" <rsouther alldata.com>
Subject: Re: When to give up on a project???
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:20:08 -0800


Tough call.  If you junk it and buy another "project", how much better will
that one be than what you're working on now?

It is almost always cheaper to keep what you have.

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Finn [mailto:ecfinn yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:01 AM
To: FTE
Subject: [61-79-list] When to give up on a project???



Well it seems like I've done it again.  My "New" '79 F-350 looks to need
more work for inspection than I can afford to spend right now.  I took it
to a local shop last week to have them fix the gas-tank and put in new
exhaust pipes since the old ones are rusted out.  Its starting to look
like I made a bad decision in purchasing this truck.  How do you know when
to get out before "spending good money after bad"?

So far I've got the following into it.

$1200 purchase price
$350 rear drums/pads/bearings
$150 PA registration
$50 tuneup (cap/rotor/wires/filters)
--------------------------
$1850 Total spent to date

The run-down of what it still needs is as follows:
1. Windshield - Tried to get it replaced Friday but the used glass broke
on installation.  I was told that the pinch welds were shot in most places
and that because of this I'd either need some serious body work or have to
put up with water leaks.  I can get a new one installed for $150.
2. The brakes are still hard as a rock and I don't know how to
troubleshoot the problem.  Could still be anything.
3. Gas Tank - I know we discussed this before but this shop keeps telling
me they need to fabricate something completely new for this since the tank
was originally held in with a full metal "cradle" and not just straps.
They said "It could take up to a full day to fix."  I find this completely
ridiculous but I've got nothing to back it up.
4.  Steering - I need a new dropped drag link and the best price I've
found is $120.
5. Exhaust - I need new pipes from the manifold back to the vertical stack
behind the cab.  I've got no idea how much this should cost. I just spoke
with the shop and his preliminary estimate was $4-500.  Ouch!
6. Floor - It has a few holes in the floor and this shop said they'd need
to fix it before inspecting it.  They were covered with a piece of
aluminum temporarily.

I figure I'm going to have to spend at least another $600 just to fix the
windshield, exhaust, and steering.  And this doesn't even include the
brakes or gas tank that will need addressed prior to inspection.

Is this too much for this truck?  Should I cut my losses and salvage the
usuable parts like the axles, engine/trans, etc?  I'm thinking that this
truck is not worth more than $2500 even if I do fix everything.

Anyone in the Philly PA area know of any good places to go to get these
things taken care of less expensively?

As you can see I'm getting a bit philosophical at the moment.  [Banging
head against wall]  I haven't put any money into any parts of the truck
that I'd be junking just yet.  If the truck's not going to be worth it
then I'll probably just keep the parts and start over again on a new
winter vehicle.

Any and all help/advice/opinions/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
BTW you can see the truck at the following web address...

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superford.org/cgi-bin/sf.cgi?uid=default&vr2=1&ID=1340

Later,

Eric Finn (getting poorer the deeper he gets into his Fords...)
'78 Bronco "The Beast" (Project stalled)
'79 F-350 4x4 "Fred"

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://shopping.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

From: "MARTY COLMAN" <colman76 hotmail.com>
Subject: '78 dually
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:18:56


Now I've seen them all...  I was surfing ebay today and found this:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=522344669

It's a '78 supercab, dually with a styleside box and "dually fenders".  The
fenders are what caught my attention.  All the '73-'79 duallys I've seen
have flatbeds, not boxes.

Just thought I'd share...

Marty
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://explorer.msn.com


------------------------------

From: "Southerland, Rich" <rsouther alldata.com>
Subject: Re: '78 dually
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:24:10 -0800


Fairly common (at least around here in CA), but that one looks pretty nice
for $2K!

-----Original Message-----
From: MARTY COLMAN [mailto:colman76 hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:19 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [61-79-list] '78 dually



Now I've seen them all...  I was surfing ebay today and found this:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=522344669

It's a '78 supercab, dually with a styleside box and "dually fenders".  The
fenders are what caught my attention.  All the '73-'79 duallys I've seen
have flatbeds, not boxes.

Just thought I'd share...

Marty
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://explorer.msn.com


------------------------------

From: "MARTY COLMAN" <colman76 hotmail.com>
Subject: Hey Lisa
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:29:27


What year is Envy?  I came across this '78-'79 grill shell, thought you may
want it (if it'll fit).

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=524784432

Marty
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://explorer.msn.com


------------------------------

From: Bad4dFilly aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:33:58 EST
Subject: Re: Hey Lisa


Darn! Envy is a '77 and I know the grille looks a lot different on anything
after a '77 so I don't think it would work. But thanks for lookin, I really
appreciate it, keep yer eyes open for me! =)

~Lisa~

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:46:14 -0500
From: somalley voyager2.cns.ohiou.edu (Sean O'Malley)
Subject: Knock Knock #2

It's looking like my 300 knock is the power steering pump.  The
pump's shaft has somewhere between 1/16 and 1/8" fore-aft
play in it.  IE, I can grab the pulley and move it toward
the front/back of the vehicle (though it doesn't seem to
have any wobble--only the front-back looseness).  The
resulting clunk sounds very much like my elusive knock, though
I have yet to sit in the cab and listen while someone else moves
the pulley.

Thanks to all who made suggestions.

--sean

------------------------------

From: "Southerland, Rich" <rsouther alldata.com>
Subject: Re: Knock Knock #2
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:57:47 -0800


Pull the belt and see if the noise goes away.  That's the true test...

-----Original Message-----
From: somalley voyager2.cns.ohiou.edu
[mailto:somalley voyager2.cns.ohiou.edu]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:46 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [61-79-list] Knock Knock #2


It's looking like my 300 knock is the power steering pump.  The
pump's shaft has somewhere between 1/16 and 1/8" fore-aft
play in it.  IE, I can grab the pulley and move it toward
the front/back of the vehicle (though it doesn't seem to
have any wobble--only the front-back looseness).  The
resulting clunk sounds very much like my elusive knock, though
I have yet to sit in the cab and listen while someone else moves
the pulley.

Thanks to all who made suggestions.

--sean

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:55:53 -0500
From: somalley voyager2.cns.ohiou.edu (Sean O'Malley)
Subject: headers and burned valves

Since I figured out that my 300's knock wasn't a terminal
engine noise, I dove in to doing my 4bbl/headers install.
I'm now most of the way done--just need to install the
choke cable, a throttle return spring, and replace the
various vacuum lines (brake booster and vacuum advance
mainly) just for good measure.

Oh yeah, then there's the little issue of exhaust pipes :).

I've often heard it said that running open headers for
any length of time is a Bad Thing--that it flows too
well, and the resulting lean condition will burn up
one's exhaust valves.  Is that a general rule, or does
it only apply to engines that still have stock intake
and carb?

We're rural enough where I live that I figured I could
probably make it to the muffler shop running open headers
without too much risk of a noise ticket, but I won't
do it if I'm going to harm the engine in the process.

Think my AAA towing coverage will apply here?  "Honest,
my tailpipe just fell off, and these headers just
jumped up off the road and knocked the exhaust manifold
out of the way..."

--sean

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:00:45 -0500
From: Tony Marino <redneck raex.com>
Subject: Re: When to give up on a project???


You don't... You just keep going, and going, and going....  Until you die....

$9000 dollars later, and I still have the same $1800 dollar truck... ;-)

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ceoweb.mts.kent.edu/~mustang/78.html

Any takers?  Please?  Haha

Tony Marino
redneck raex.com




At 08:00 12/18/2000 -0800, you wrote:

>Well it seems like I've done it again.  My "New" '79 F-350 looks to need
>more work for inspection than I can afford to spend right now.  I took it
>to a local shop last week to have them fix the gas-tank and put in new
>exhaust pipes since the old ones are rusted out.  Its starting to look
>like I made a bad decision in purchasing this truck.  How do you know when
>to get out before "spending good money after bad"?
>
>So far I've got the following into it.
>
>$1200 purchase price
>$350 rear drums/pads/bearings
>$150 PA registration
>$50 tuneup (cap/rotor/wires/filters)
>--------------------------
>$1850 Total spent to date



------------------------------

From: "Southerland, Rich" <rsouther alldata.com>
Subject: Re: headers and burned valves
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:06:16 -0800


Is this single exhaust?  You can get a glasspack with the header flange
welded to it for about $20 around here...

-----Original Message-----
From: somalley voyager2.cns.ohiou.edu
[mailto:somalley voyager2.cns.ohiou.edu]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:56 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [61-79-list] headers and burned valves


Since I figured out that my 300's knock wasn't a terminal
engine noise, I dove in to doing my 4bbl/headers install.
I'm now most of the way done--just need to install the
choke cable, a throttle return spring, and replace the
various vacuum lines (brake booster and vacuum advance
mainly) just for good measure.

Oh yeah, then there's the little issue of exhaust pipes :).

I've often heard it said that running open headers for
any length of time is a Bad Thing--that it flows too
well, and the resulting lean condition will burn up
one's exhaust valves.  Is that a general rule, or does
it only apply to engines that still have stock intake
and carb?

We're rural enough where I live that I figured I could
probably make it to the muffler shop running open headers
without too much risk of a noise ticket, but I won't
do it if I'm going to harm the engine in the process.

Think my AAA towing coverage will apply here?  "Honest,
my tailpipe just fell off, and these headers just
jumped up off the road and knocked the exhaust manifold
out of the way..."

--sean

------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:37:06 EST
Subject: Re: When to give up on a project???


Well Eric, I know how you feel, But Id suggest keepin that truck whole.
F-350 4x4's arent easy to come by, and so far you dont really have a lot
invested.  I've got 7000 dollars in my F-350, and its still sitting with a
bad motor and looks like a farmers truck.  On the plus side, I should Finally
have my motor out of the Machine shop by mid January.  After that I can start
reassembling that old beast.  You really do have a good truck there, Even if
the whole body is shot.  If you have the same front axle as my dads truck
(Identified by larger sterring ujoints than any other axle)  It alone is
worth almost 2000 dollars.  Dont loose heart Eric, it can all be done.  Good
luck.

Darrell & Tweety

PS, If you decide to sell, I want first dibs!



------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:45:02 EST
Subject: Re: headers and burned valves

In a message dated 12/18/2000 8:57:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
somalley voyager2.cns.ohiou.edu writes:


> I've often heard it said that running open headers for
> any length of time is a Bad Thing--that it flows too
> well, and the resulting lean condition will burn up
> one's exhaust valves.  Is that a general rule, or does
> it only apply to engines that still have stock intake
> and carb?
>

Well Ive heard this too, but I ran tweety with open manifolds (yes
manifolkds, not headers) for almost 2 months do to the fact I couldnt afford
new exhaust after swappin to a 4 speed.  I never suffered any affects, other
than fading hearing.  Man 460's are loud.  You can do waht my brother and I
did on his 300 with headers, we installed a pair of glaspacks.  On fit right
on the rear most collector, and on the other we used a pic of flex to clear a
crossmember.  Still runnin it, havent had any problems.

Darrell & Tweety



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:58:24 -0800
From: Don Grossman <duckdon mac.com>
Subject: Re: When to give up on a project???


>Its starting to look
>like I made a bad decision in purchasing this truck.

We do that ;)

>  How do you know when
>to get out before "spending good money after bad"?

If you don't think you will keep this truck or don't like it/have no
feeling for it.  Get out now.  But Hey you bought it for a reason
right.  Why?


>The run-down of what it still needs is as follows:
>1. Windshield - Tried to get it replaced Friday but the used glass broke
>on installation.  I was told that the pinch welds were shot in most places
>and that because of this I'd either need some serious body work or have to
>put up with water leaks.  I can get a new one installed for $150.

Unless the frame of the window is rusted out you should not have to
live with leaks.

>2. The brakes are still hard as a rock and I don't know how to
>troubleshoot the problem.  Could still be anything.

Need brakes and steering.  Could be no vacuum to the booster/bad
booster.  Won't know until you get in there

>3. Gas Tank - I know we discussed this before but this shop keeps telling
>me they need to fabricate something completely new for this since the tank
>was originally held in with a full metal "cradle" and not just straps.
>They said "It could take up to a full day to fix."  I find this completely
>ridiculous but I've got nothing to back it up.

Tell them to take a flying leap.  Junk yard parts man.

>4.  Steering - I need a new dropped drag link and the best price I've
>found is $120.

Can you just replace the joints at the end and keep the center section?

>5. Exhaust - I need new pipes from the manifold back to the vertical stack
>behind the cab.  I've got no idea how much this should cost. I just spoke
>with the shop and his preliminary estimate was $4-500.  Ouch!

Find a new shop.  $250 max for running a few pipes.  maybe a bit more
for expensive mufflers. and kill the stack unless you go with twin
stacks.  Chromed of course

>6. Floor - It has a few holes in the floor and this shop said they'd need
>to fix it before inspecting it.  They were covered with a piece of
>aluminum temporarily. ....


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