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61-79-list Digest Sun, 05 Nov 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 325

In This Issue:
Re: Winter driving in particular chains
Thanks To Ken and Peggy
was: A sad day at....now: one more saved
Re: was: A sad day at....now: one more saved
Re: steering column bushing for '65 F-100
Winter driving and storage
Re: steering column bushing for '65 F-100
color request
Re: color request
Re: color request
Help!  My truck won't run
Re: color request
one wire alt.
Re: steering column bushing for '65 F-100
Oil pan gasket trick
Re: wide ratio C6
Re: Winter driving, recovery
ADMIN: Your truck on the official Ford web site!
Re: Winter Traction.... was Move to Colorado
Re: what cfm?
Re: what cfm?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 13:49:16 -0500
From: George Selby <gselby4x4 earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Winter driving in particular chains

At 11:27 AM 11/5/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Anyone worried about chains,cables or whatever breaking should invest in 3/8"
>logging chains and hooks. They're heavier and more cumbersome but I guarantee
>you won't break them by pulling vehicles out of snow, mud or whatever.
>(They're
>great with the tire between two of them)  I've had these chains hooked to
>hardwood trees that scored up over 1000 bd/ft of logs plus pulp ... about 10K
>lbs. They cost about $4/foot and hooks are about $10 each. BTW ... I don't
>pull
>these trees with my Fords! :-)

I broke a 3/8" chain pulling out a S-Blazer with an Isuzu P'up.  Busted out
the back glass of the S-Blazer. One link is always weakest.

I almost popped out my ex-girlfriend's eye when a rope we were pulling my
dune buggy with broke and snapped back real quick, hit her one inch below
her eye.  Use at least 1" rope if you must use rope.

I busted a huge dent in a F-150 with a stretchy strap (no hooks on the end)
while trying to pull a Suburban out of a canal.

The moral of the story:  You can bust any type of strap given the right
circumstances.  So here are the rules I follow when pulling (or winching)
another vehicle.

1.      Use a chain only if you don't need a running start to move the
vehicle.  If you snatch on the chain, it will eventually break.  Plus they
weigh a lot more than a stretchy strap of equivalent strength.

2.      Don't use a stretchy strap with hooks on the end.  If the strap
breaks, you have a nice missile on the end of the strap.  Plus the straps
with hooks are generally 10-15 thousand pound straps, you should have at
least 30-40k pounds.  Use shackles to attach the loops  in the end of the
strap to the trucks.  This will ensure the strap stays attached to both
vehicles, if it breaks it can't go but so far.

3.      Everyone except the two people driving the vehicles should stand
away from both trucks a minimum distance of the length of the
strap/chain/rope. That way if it breaks they are out of danger.

4.      Put a coat or blanket or towel over the strap/chain/rope so that if
it does break, it has some weight that will force it down more quickly.

5.      Raise the hood of the vehicle if the strap/chain/rope is attached
to the front.  This could save your windshield.

George Selby
78 F-150 4x4 400 4 spd
86 Nissan 300ZX
gselby4x4 earthlink.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.usedcarsandparts.com


------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 14:01:29 EST
Subject: Thanks To Ken and Peggy


Well, everyone, I had the extreme pleasure of meeting our webmaster and his
wife yesterday, and I tell ya, they are some great people.  Had a great
lunch, lots of good stories, and even more laughs.  I had a great time, as
did my buddy, Scooter.

Ken and Peggy, I just want to thank you both again for a great lunch, and the
"secret prize"  Scooter loved that.  Im not spoilin the surprise, Ken can
tell everyone what it is.  Hope you guys made it to the Hoover damn ok, fun
road isnt it?  Oh and thanks for the airline info, checked up on it, might
see me out that way sooner than expected.  Have a good one, See ya

Darrell & Tweety



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 13:18:51 -0600
From: Stu Varner <nukegm ford-trucks.com>
Subject: was: A sad day at....now: one more saved


>>I couldn't watch as they fed it into the crusher.  When it came out of the
>>other end, they picked it up with a front end loader and set it on the pile
>>about 20 feet from where I was.  All I could think about as I watched was
>>how another piece of Ford truck history was being destroyed.  And how in 20
>>years, someone might be searching for an emblem, or that perfect chrome
>>grille, and not be able to find one.

(sniff, sobbb, sniff......may we please have a moment of silence here??)


I have only sent one to the crusher and that was after I picked it
completely apart
and salvaged every usable part right down to the last nut and bolt that was
still salvagable.
I must admit, even though it was soooo consumed by rust and worthless
except for scrap, I had a hard time letting her go.
My 71 is using several parts from that old girl that went on to the
recycling plant in the sky - so in many ways, the spirit of my wife's
grandads truck still lives on when I am cold (heater box) or everytime I
close the door (inner door panels).

On a more positive note, I wanted to announce to SOME of those on the list
interested, that I officially began the
rodstoration of a 1968 model I "semi-saved" from a bone yard back in
January 2000.  With a great deal of help from
a great bud and list member (Mike Mackie) from north of the border, the 68
F-100 is being converted to a
"Pro street" Mercury M-100 Rod.   Without Mike's help on the hood and cowl
trim and tailgate, this would never be possible.
THANKS A TON MIKE!!

Some future plans for this old girl include tubbed wheel wells in the bed
to accomodate the 15x15x29.5 Mickey T's on Weld Pro-stars. A 410FE or 428FE
complete with Mercury script pent roof valve covers, a toploader 4 speed
with a Detroit locker in the 9 inch housing and several other unique custom
touches to help set this truck apart.

The old twin I-beam will be discarded in favor of a Mustang II or Volare
front end (still undecided). Vintage Air AC and power steering and disc
brakes on all 4's will also be added.

Between Mike Mackie, Jim Elliott, Colorado Jeff and Tony "the Super Duty
Kid" Marino, and a few other list members - I have practically all the
scarce little parts to get it going full bore.

The bed comes off today and will be worked on first in my neighbors brand
new state of the art home fab shop which was completed this past summer.
All steel will be media or glass bead blasted and then done in epoxy primer
until a suitable color can be selected.

If there is anyone on the list who owns a truck painted 1967 through 1969
Ford Lunar Green or 1967 thorugh 1970 Ford Habor Blue, please email me a
picture so I can help make some decisions as to a potential color.  Thanks

I will try to keep people updated when a major milestone happens with this
project. Who knows how long this project will take, I am estimating 3 to 4
years depending on finances etc.  Sooner if the 71 4x4 gets sold in the
next few months.

There will be some parts from the 68 for sale so if interested email me off
list.  I have some good stuff to get rid of.

Thanks for listening!

Stu
Nuke GM!
http://www.ford-trucks.com/~nukegm

------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 14:17:25 EST
Subject: Re: was: A sad day at....now: one more saved


In a message dated 11/5/00 11:14:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,
nukegm ford-trucks.com writes:


> The old twin I-beam will be discarded in favor of a Mustang II or Volare
> front end (still undecided). Vintage Air AC and power steering and disc
> brakes on all 4's will also be added.


I believe it was on the Perf list, but a few folks were talking about using
Aerostar front ends.  Might want to look into it, as it sounded like a much
beefier system than the mustang unit, but was still most everything you want
in the front end conversion.

Darrell & Tweety



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 16:54:59 -0500
From: Don Haring <haring fedora.net>
Subject: Re: steering column bushing for '65 F-100

Dlkiehl aol.com said:
> My steering wheel shaft flops around side to side inside the steering
>column.
> I'm guessing theres a bushing missing or worn out.  Can anyone tell me what
> I need and where to get it?
> Darryl Kiehl

Darryl, not sure if it's the same, but on my Club Wagon, there is a bearing
at the top of the steering column that holds the shaft in the middle of the
tube. If you can move the steering wheel up and down, but the steering
column doesn't move, I would guess that bearing is missing.

-don

Don Haring, Jr., Philadelphia, PA
FCA Keystone Chapter Internet Director
61 Falcon Futura, 66 Falcon Club Wagon and classic scooters



------------------------------

From: "Jason and Kathy" <kendrick mddc.com>
Subject:  Winter driving and storage
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 16:02:48 -0600

George has some excellent pointers on using chains, cable, and straps. I'm
gonna try to remember them this winter. On another note, it's almost time
for the calcium chloride to arrive on my street, and that means that it's
almost time to park the '70 F100 for the winter. When I got this truck, it
had some rock chips, but not a bit of rust anywhere. A couple years after i
introduced it to the rust belt, the rust appeared. Now, in order to keep it
to a minimum untill I'm ready to park it and start the restoration, it gets
parked in the backyard. Instead, I'll break out the 180,000 mile Tempo with
the great running, never been opened up engine, and the rusted shell of a
body. My only hope is that someone with insurance will cream it this
winter...
JasonKendrick


------------------------------

From: SHill48337 aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 21:10:26 EST
Subject: Re: steering column bushing for '65 F-100

In a message dated 11/4/00 12:58:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, Dlkiehl aol.com
writes:

<< My steering wheel shaft flops around side to side inside the steering
column.
 I'm guessing theres a bushing missing or worn out.  Can anyone tell me what
I need and where to get it?
 >>

Either the upper or lower or both bearings may be shot.  I just rebuilt my
steering column and in the process of getting the right bearings one of the
wrong ones I got was for a lower bearing for a 66, so they are likely
available.  Try your parts store or Ford dealer.  Once you get into the job I
think you will find fairly easy, but time consuming.  Ask list for help.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 21:13:50 -0600
From: Stu Varner <nukegm ford-trucks.com>
Subject: color request

OK guys and gals, I goofed up..........In an earlier post I requested pics
of a truck painted in either lunar green or harbor blue.  Lunar green ain't
the color I was looking for. Harbor blue may not be the color I am looking
for either.....unless it is an aqua marine type color.

Does anyone have 68-70 paint chips that could be scanned and sent to me off
list??
Anyone know where i can get some factory paint chips????

Thanks!!!!

Nuke GM!
Stu
http://www.ford-trucks.com/~nukegm  (1971 4x4 for sale!!!)


------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 22:46:05 EST
Subject: Re: color request

In a message dated 11/5/00 7:44:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nukegm ford-trucks.com writes:


> OK guys and gals, I goofed up..........In an earlier post I requested pics
> of a truck painted in either lunar green or harbor blue.  Lunar green ain't
> the color I was looking for. Harbor blue may not be the color I am looking
> for either.....unless it is an aqua marine type color.
>
> Does anyone have 68-70 paint chips that could be scanned and sent to me off
> list??
> Anyone know where I can get some factory paint chips????
>
>

Have you gone through the pictorial to see if maybe someone else has the
color your lookin for?  Might get lucky.

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

From: "Montana Mark" <big78ford home.com>
Subject: Re: color request
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 21:18:51 -0700

Hey Stu,
I found this site with 64-73 Mustang chips.  I'm not sure if they are the
same or not but it's worth looking at.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.metromustang.com/FordExterior/Paint.html

Montana Mark
1978 Ford F150 4x4  "The Great Pumpkin"
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.members.home.net/big78ford

> Does anyone have 68-70 paint chips that could be scanned and sent to me
off
> list??
> Anyone know where i can get some factory paint chips????



------------------------------

From: "Pat" <patsplace aisl.bc.ca>
Subject: Help!  My truck won't run
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 22:30:07 -0800

Howdy Gary,
    Been there, done that!! Spring for the new tank, put a good filter
system on it and if you're really having a "got it together" moment, coat
the inside of the NEW TANK with the epoxy and then you'll never have another
problem as long as you live, at least with the tank end of things.
Pat
Patsplace
77 F250 4X4
78 F150 W/Overloads
72 Ranger parts truck
79 F250 4X4 (Dream Truck Under Construction)
78 F250 2WD Lariat Donor for the DT.

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
.  I venture to guess that by the time you do all that you will be close to
the
cost of a new tank and still will have one that is not reliable no matter
how much epxoy you throw at it.





------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 02:34:46 -0500
From: Tony Marino <redneck raex.com>
Subject: Re: color request

Hey Stubaby!

Gee, guess who has paint chips from ford for 67-79 Trucks?   ;-)

Scanning them and viewing them on your monitor induces way too many
variables to change the shade of the actual color, but if anybody needs the
mixing paint codes, I'd be more than happy to look them up.. 8-)

Tony Marino
redneck raex.com



At 21:13 11/5/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>OK guys and gals, I goofed up..........In an earlier post I requested pics
>of a truck painted in either lunar green or harbor blue.  Lunar green ain't
>the color I was looking for. Harbor blue may not be the color I am looking
>for either.....unless it is an aqua marine type color.
>
>Does anyone have 68-70 paint chips that could be scanned and sent to me off
>list??
>Anyone know where i can get some factory paint chips????
>
>Thanks!!!!
>
>Nuke GM!
>Stu
>http://www.ford-trucks.com/~nukegm  (1971 4x4 for sale!!!)
>
>=============================================================
>To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
>Please remove this footer when replying.


------------------------------

From: NUTCH11 aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 07:39:52 EST
Subject: one wire alt.

hi

I  put a one wire on my 56 t-bird (427fe). only problem i found was this alt
was thicker than ford so i had to do some pulley changing to get proper belt
alignment.

nutch

------------------------------

From: "MARTY COLMAN" <colman76 hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: steering column bushing for '65 F-100
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 13:54:45 GMT

Darrel, is the steering wheel on it?  The shaft will flop around without a
wheel on it, because the wheel holds pressure on the top bearing.  If that's
not the case, then it must be a problem with the bearing.  There should be a
roller bearing at the top and bottom of the steering column.

If you need a bearing, check with Auto Krafters (I know they have them for
my '73), Dennis Carpenter, or LMC Truck.  One of them should have it.

Marty
*digest mode*
_________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 10:48:40 -0500
From: William King <kingw bgnet.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Oil pan gasket trick

Hey here's something I discovered this weekend that someone might find
useful:
I had to tear into the bottom end of my Torino's 429 this weekend,
and had to pull the oil pan.  Once I got thru poking the bottom end,
I was getting ready to reinstall the oil pump and oil pan.  I sat in
my garage remembering with dread the other times I've done this
(including on my F100...FTE content).  The worst part isn't snaking
your hand into the oil pan and trying to bolt the oil pump back into place
AND get the oil pump drive-shaft correctly seated.  The worst is that
I always end up mushing the oil-pan gasket around on top of the oil pan
while I'm trying to bolt the oil pump in.  I've tried putting the oil pan
bolts thru their holes (hoping that they'll work like dowels and keep the
gasket from shifting), but they usually drop out.  It always ends the same...
the gasket gets shifted all around (sometimes drops into the pan), and I
end up getting more blue-goo on my wrists than on the pan/gasket).

I realize that I could just leave the gasket out, until the pump's installed.
But, I like to use gasket sealer between the pan and the gasket, and the only
easy way to do that is when the pan's on the ground.

So, I tied the oil pan gasket onto the pan with little (about 2" long)
pieces of string.  I tied one piece of string thru each of oil pan (and
gasket) bolt holes.  Then I lifted the pan under the car, reached in
(*cussed*) and rebolted the oil pump.  I then clipped each piece of string
(like a suture) and started the respective oil pan bolt.  Worked like a charm.
Just thought I'd share.

Ohio Bill

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 09:29:14 -0700
From: "William Whited (Tony)" <f10074 ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: wide ratio C6

I never heard any information back on this one.  Is there any ideas or clues?
TIA

prices wrote:

> Tell me more about the wide ratio C6.  What years was it produced (I heard
> '78?) and was it and the standard C6 produced together or did one follow the
> other?  Is there a visual difference on the outside if I were searching for
> a used one?   Last question, what are the ratios?  I have in my notes that a
> C6 was 2.46, 1.46, and 1.00.
>
> bkp
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.

--
William (Tony) Whited
74 F100 Ranger Supercab 390
77 F150 Custom 460
El Paso, TX
Semper Fi



------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Winter driving, recovery
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:35:07 -0800

1/2" chain can be broken too.  I agree that jerking with a chain isn't good
but basically for the two vehicles involved.  Typically the chain will
handle the jerking much better than the bumpers or other component you are
hooked to and the power train takes a huge beating as well.

Cable will stretch so takes some of the jerk out of it to save the vehicle
somewhat better and nylon is best of course but, as pointed out, can be very
tricky to use since it will slingshot the towed vehicle.

Breakage in every case mentioned was due to inadequate equipment IMHO.  If
your equipment is up to snuff for the task it simply won't break.  That may
mean re-evaluating your capabilities before trying to pull someone out.  I
know that takes all the fun out of it but all the pulls I've done have been
in low range, low gear, low speed with a hardened 3/8" log chain which is
the only recovery equipment I carry.  I won't jerk a car to get it out, I
use my head and figure out a way to "Pull" it out.  If I can't, I get a
bigger truck or use my cell phone to call a wrecker :-)  I've pulled cars
out of ditches with only one LS in the rear and all 4 wheels on ice using
Low/Low and a little care.

If you are pulling a vehicle stuck so deep it can't be "Pulled", chances are
it can't be "Jerked either because it will have to be jerked and jerked and
jerked to get it out.  I've seen people with Blazers and Broncos try to pull
big boats out of huge drifts in ditches they got into at some speed which
carried them several yards into the drift so the whole car was way above the
ground and would be for many feet if pulled.  They yanked and yanked until
someone's bumper came off......  Shovel some snow out of the way (or mud or
what ever), make yourself a path and "Pull" it out.  I've been sunk in 2' of
packed snow where a much larger 4x4 went through and found myself about 6-8"
above the pavement and the frame hung on the snow and had to dig out.  One
spot I got into I had to dig almost 100' of path to get it where the tires
could get some traction.  That was with a little bitty 65 scout with bald
tires and no lockers.  If that little truck had had lockers on both ends and
bumps on it's tires who knows where I might have been able to go with it :-)

Happily Totally Retired,
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> >Anyone worried about chains,cables or whatever breaking should invest in
3/8"
> >logging chains and hooks. They're heavier and more cumbersome but I
guarantee
> >you won't break them by pulling vehicles out of snow, mud or whatever.



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 11:52:50 -0500
From: Ken Payne <kpayne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: ADMIN: Your truck on the official Ford web site!

Ford Truck Enthusiasts has been contacted by Ford's advertising
agency with a request for photos for a screen saver they are
creating.

Specifically, they are in need of photos for the following years:

1948
1953
1965
1974
1998
2001

What is needed is a high quality photo scan or digital photo of
the truck, engine and logo/trim.  Please email photos to me
at kpayne ford-trucks.com along with the year/model.  Please include
information so you can be properly credited for the photos.  Send
the photos using a high quality scan, saving the image as a JPG/JPEG
with zero compression or high quality compression settings.  300 dpi
or better resolution is preferred but not required.

This is an opportunity to show your truck off in a major way!
Please >>DO NOT DELAY<<!  I will be sending copy to them within
72 hours so I need your photos within 2 days.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com



------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Winter Traction.... was Move to Colorado
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:04:00 -0800

Running narrower tires in winter will aid traction by increasing the
effective PSI in the foot print which increases heat in the contact patch to
melt the ice or snow enough for the tread to actully "bite" into it or
simply force it into it for a better bite.  More weight, more bite.  With
enough weight you can actually run big tires on snow with good results which
is why 4x4's typically can get away with larger tires in winter than 2wd
vehicles but it's still very relative......

What is it about weight that actually helps the traction?  With a 2wd
vehicle it is actually two fold....  The front tires do nothing but
interfere with forward movement and the slushier it is the less they help
(rear wheel drive of course) so....properly placed weight will cause the
weight of the vehicle to "shift" toward the rear which would lighten the
front end a little to reduce it's impact on movement and add weight to the
rear with little added weight penalty to impact your fuel economy during the
winter.  The further back you add the weight, the less weight you need to
add to accomplish this and the narrower the tires the same applies.  The
ideal location is in the rear bumper where just a couple hundred pounds will
have the effect of somewhat more than that on traction.  If you find, in the
case of a soft sprung car, that it lowers the bumper too much or tilts the
vehicle so that handling is affected you can throw on some helper spings or
air shocks to compensate but don't compensate too much or the weight shift
is nullified :-)

Putting weight evenly over the entire bed of a pickup also adds a lot of
weight to the front end.  Putting it directly over the rear axle does
nothing to aid in weight transfer when power is applied.  Putting in things
that can move around will cause handling problems if they move to the wrong
place at the wrong time.  In stock cars, just a small change in weight
distribution, maintaining the vehicle weight of 3400# changes the whole
personality of the car.  You can do the same thing with a small amount of
weight in the winter :-)

Happily Totally Retired,
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> Just a testimonial for putting a little weight on the tires...



------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: what cfm?
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:10:15 -0800

Just for kicks, the NASCAR enigines use the Holley Dominator in the range of
1100 cfm and they are all at 358 CUIN with characteristics similar to the
351M or W but they run best between 7500 and 9000 rpm and their cams fully
utilize the CFM.  As you downsize the "Needs' of the engine you need to
downsize the carb CFM as well.  Just thought I'd throw that out for a little
perspective on the 302 case.

Happily Totally Retired,
Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> Many moons ago, I had a '73 F100 with a 302. I built it with 10:1 pistons,
> headers, Holley Street Dominator Intake manifold and a nice RV type
camshaft.
> It was toped with a Holley 600 w Vac Secondaries (4160 I believe). She ran
> real nice


------------------------------

From: "Bill Beyer" <bbeyer pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: what cfm?
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:30:24 -0800

Here's a chart that posted showing CFM requirements by engine size/RPM
assuming 100% VE. NASCAR motors probably exceed 100% VE but most motors that
John Q. FTE builds won't...

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://performanceunlimited.com/documents/cfmguide.html

/// Friends help you move...Real friends help you move bodies \\

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 12:10 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: what cfm?


> Just for kicks, the NASCAR enigines use the Holley Dominator in the range
of
> 1100 cfm and they are all at 358 CUIN with characteristics similar to the
> 351M or W but they run best between 7500 and 9000 rpm and their cams fully
> utilize the CFM.  As you downsize the "Needs' of the engine you need to
> downsize the carb CFM as well.  Just thought I'd throw that out for a
little
> perspective on the 302 case.
....

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