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61-79-list Digest Wed, 18 Oct 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 300

In This Issue:
Re: grinding in the transfer case?
Re: Computers
Re: Pilot hold in 460 crank
Re: 4 bbl on a 300
Manifold vs. Ported Spark Vac Advance: Tested both on my
Re: grinding in the transfer case?
Re: 4 bbl on a 300
Tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick
tiss the season for ticking?
Re: tiss the season for ticking?
Chattering top end
list maintainence
Re: list maintainence
Time to go bye-bye...........
61  F/E engine swaps
Re: tiss the season for ticking?
Re: Time to go bye-bye...........
Re: Tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick
Re: 4 bbl on a 300

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matt" <draygo pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: grinding in the transfer case?
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:21:44 -0700

I haven't seen a reply to this yet, so I'll give it a shot. I would guess
that you were on pavement when you had it in 4 Hi? The reason it was
grinding, is because the gear ratio's between the front and rear axle are
not exactly the same, which causes the two drive lines to turn at slightly
different speeds, which causes the transfer case to bind up. If you are in
the mud, sand, snow, or any other soft substance that allows the wheels to
spin easily, you won't have this problem.

Matt

I didn't realize it at first, but I was in 4H this afternoon and noticed a
very uncomforting sound coming from right underneath my feet.  At first I
thought something was wrong with my clutch, but after putting it back in 2H,
all was well.  There was a bunch of clinging/clanking and grinding, sounding
like I was over-revving or something.  I don't know much about the inner
workings of a Transfer case  (NP 205), but could it be as simple as the
fluid being low?  Thought I'd ask the list before I went ahead and tackled
the problem.

Thanks!

-bob-




------------------------------

From: "Dave Resch" <Dave.Resch sybase.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:23:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Computers

>From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
><< Either 1981 or 1987. It would be the same
>year they started with the electronic feedback
>carb. On cars that was 1981. If it has a Check
>Engine light, it has a computer. >>
>
>It was 81, although the computer really didnt
>start doing anything important till 84, when it
>took over the ignition from the duraspark box,
>and incorporated TPS sensors on the carb,

Yo John & Darrell:

I know HD trucks (F250/350) still used just the DS2 box until at least 1984.
(Some bigger trucks like F600s still used DS2 until at least 1990.)  Maybe the
lighter-duty (F100/150/Broncos) started sooner.  This also might vary w/ engine
application, like the introduction of EFI.

As for the Check Engine light, if you have it, you have a computer, but its
absence doesn't tell you there's not a computer.  My '84 Tempo and my wife's '84
Crown Vic both used EEC-IV computers, and neither had a Check Engine light.

Dave R (M-block devotee)



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:50:47 -0700
From: William King <kingw bgnet.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pilot hold in 460 crank

Oh goody,
I will raise my periscope from digest mode and toss my experience
in here.
I've read (methink in 1986 Ford SVO catalog/magazine) that the 68 and
69 429s didn't have a pilot-bushing cutout in the end (tail) of their
cranks, and the side of the block wasn't machined with a cutout for
a clutch equalizer bracket.  I have a 429 TJ from a 1968 Thunderbird
in my Torino.  I know the block doesn't have a machining for a clutch
equalizer bracekt.  About 2 years ago Serian posted the Ford part
number for a bracket which bolts to the bellhousing and serves as
the 'other' side of the clutch equalizer bracket.  I wrote the part
number down somewhere..if someone needs it.

Myself (and other's) have dealt w/ the 'lack' of a pilot bushing cutout.
Because I was 17 when I rebuilt my 429, I assumed that if a magazine said
there wasn't a pilot bushing for my application, they were correct.  Silly
boy.  I chose to machine the OD of a solid pilot-bushing down (I got it
close,
stuck it in the freezer, then popped it into the crank tail. Works fine).

Jeff (?) Hansen (of the Muny Pitt) has a 68 or 69 429 in his truck. He
claimed that he bought his pilot bushing off the shelf.  I suspect that
you could ask your local autoparts store to help you find a proper sized
pilot bushing.  There's a recess there...it's just ALLEGED to be too
small. It looked plenty big to me, but I was 17 at the time and things just
looked bigger back then (and I still believed in magazines too).
Next time I'll hunt around for a pilot bushing that fits. I'll bet you
can find one without much trouble.

*down periscope*
Ohio Bill (Listening for sonar pings from SB Ch*vys)


>Bob writes: >>Is there a chance that it won't swap, because of the
>> lack of a pilot bearing releif in the rear of the crankshaft?  <<
>
>Never saw a Ford crank that did not have the proper cutout(or whatever you
call it)
>for either the automatics torque converter bulge, or the pilot bearing for
a standard
>tranny..  Seen it in GM and MOPAR, but never in a Ford.
>Not saying Ford didn't do it on some engines sometime in its history, I
just never
>saw one of them..And I've converted several form auto to std and vise
versa..Most
>were FE's, but a few have been 385's(429/460).
>
>Azie Magnusson
>Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:57:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Computers
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> I know HD trucks (F250/350) still used just the DS2 box until at least 1984.
> (Some bigger trucks like F600s still used DS2 until at least 1990.)  Maybe the
> lighter-duty (F100/150/Broncos) started sooner.  This also might vary w/
engine
> application, like the introduction of EFI.
>
> As for the Check Engine light, if you have it, you have a computer, but its
> absence doesn't tell you there's not a computer.  My '84 Tempo and my wife's
'84
> Crown Vic both used EEC-IV computers, and neither had a Check Engine light.

Excellent points, Dave. the thing about pollution control equipment is it
depends on the weight class, the engine, the original destination of the new
vehicle, the original purpose of the new equipment, et al. Also it depends
on what you call pollution control equipment. A muffler? Cars didn't always
have them, you know.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:39:43 -0400
From: somalley voyager2.cns.ohiou.edu (Sean O'Malley)
Subject: Re: 4 bbl on a 300

Does anyone know which of the Summit throttle cable adapters/brackets
I will need to hook my cables up to a 4bbl on a 300-I6?

Tony, you still out there?  I know you have been through this
several times...

--sean

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:47:43 -0400
From: George Selby <gselby4x4 earthlink.net>
Subject: Manifold vs. Ported Spark Vac Advance: Tested both on my

I finally got around to installing my distributor, and to my surprise I was
having no problems removing and reinstalling it.  Normally the oil pump
driveshaft wants to pull up with the distributor or the socket you use to
turn it when you change the position of the rotor, then fall into the block
just when you think it will clear.  So I decided to test both manifold and
ported vacuum advance.

Previously when I tried ported vacuum, I was unable to get a satisfactory
idle, and it seemed down on power compared to the manifold vacuum.  Well
the long and short of it was I had the distributor body too far clockwise
(This is how PO had it, and I never moved it much, he used manifold
vacuum.)  The old setting had the vacuum can almost hitting the radiator
hose entrance on the block.  I could not move it enough to get good idle
with ported.  Well, on this installation, I moved the rotor over 2 teeth on
the drive gear.  This puts the vacuum can right where it should be, in the
middle of the travel between head and water inlet on block.

So with the distributor in the new position, and new vacuum lines from the
carb to the distributor, I tried both.  The results:  Ported works much
better.  With manifold vacuum, I had a massive bog when I floored it
(Surprise, Surprise, I eliminated the manifold vacuum when doing so and
thus caused the advance to disappear,) now there is no bog.  The idle is
smoother, and the truck has more power. Driveability is much better,
too.  When I step on the gas now, it moves instantly, and smoothly.

George Selby
78 F-150 4x4 400 4 spd
86 Nissan 300ZX
gselby4x4 earthlink.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.usedcarsandparts.com


------------------------------

From: "Bob" <xavetarx home.com>
Subject: Re: grinding in the transfer case?
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:57:14 -0400

I thought that might have been the case, but wasn't sure if it would sound
this bad... In my automatic 79 bronco, it's not as bad.
Thanks again

I haven't seen a reply to this yet, so I'll give it a shot. I would guess
that you were on pavement when you had it in 4 Hi? The reason it was
grinding, is because the gear ratio's between the front and rear axle are
not exactly the same, which causes the two drive lines to turn at slightly
different speeds, which causes the transfer case to bind up. If you are in
the mud, sand, snow, or any other soft substance that allows the wheels to
spin easily, you won't have this problem.

Matt

I didn't realize it at first, but I was in 4H this afternoon and noticed a
very uncomforting sound coming from right underneath my feet.  At first I
thought something was wrong with my clutch, but after putting it back in 2H,
all was well.  There was a bunch of clinging/clanking and grinding, sounding
like I was over-revving or something.  I don't know much about the inner
workings of a Transfer case  (NP 205), but could it be as simple as the
fluid being low?  Thought I'd ask the list before I went ahead and tackled
the problem.

Thanks!

-bob-



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:03:25 -0400
From: Tony Marino <redneck raex.com>
Subject: Re: 4 bbl on a 300

Yes... Lokar - 2 foot kit will do you plenty-- get a lokar throttle cable
adapter spring retainer clip (bolts to base of carb) and thread the hting
into it and clip on your return springs.. Works awesome on a 500/600cfm
chevy chokeless model carter carb.   You'll also have to tear apart the
cable kit to take the rocker end off the cable and use the ball that is
pressed on the pedal side in through the little plastic retainer clip, then
clip cable back into pedal.. This will all make sense when you see the
stuff.. ;-)

Lemme know if you need pictures- might be able to supply them!

Tony "Still waiting on my new superduty" Marino
redneck raex.com
(anybody want to buy a '67 shortbed stick stepside in good shape?!  $4000)



At 16:39 10/18/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>Does anyone know which of the Summit throttle cable adapters/brackets
>I will need to hook my cables up to a 4bbl on a 300-I6?
>
>Tony, you still out there?  I know you have been through this
>several times...
>
>--sean
>=============================================================
>To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
>Please remove this footer when replying.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:26:37 -0400
From: David Wadson <wadsond air.on.ca>
Subject: Tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick

And nope, I already checked the rocker arms...no loose ones. It also sounds
like the noise comes from down by the oil pan. A steady
tick-tick-tick-tick-tick that follows the engine speed faster and slower.
The ticking isn't there when the engine is cold but as it warms up and the
oil thins out, it starts ticking away.

A) Whatever it is it's probably going to be a pain to fix.
B) It will be even harder to fix with snow on the ground and no garage to
work in.
C) I'm planning on buying a house (with a garage) in the spring and I'm
going to be throwing my cash into that, no fixing an old motor.
D) Once I have a house with a garage, I can start rebuilding that 4x4 and
redo the whole engine properly with a new cam, intake, etc. so why kill
myself now if fixing the tick is a massive job.

But that aside, I'm curious as to what the noise could be. Would a crank
bearing or connecting rod make that sort of noise? I had troubles with a
rocker arm stud whose nut would work lose causing a steady tick, then
popping as the valve really stopped working right and then an inability to
run. This is just a steady ticking - the engine even runs pretty well the
same as it did before this tick came along.

Strange...

Good thing I have the other truck to drive when this one bites the bullet
this winter...


David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
"PS1" - 79 F100 ...ground into a million pieces.
"PS2" - 78 F100 ...currently alive and kicking.
"PS3" - 79 F150 4x4 ...now what have I gotten myself into...
Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada



------------------------------

From: "Bob" <xavetarx home.com>
Subject: tiss the season for ticking?
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:56:48 -0400

I posted yesterday that I too was hearing a bunch of ticking (coming from
what sound like the heads).  Some had thought it was gas getting into the
oil via a bad fuel pump.  I have a new fuel pump as of yesterday, and I
flushed/changed the oil/filter this afternoon.  Still ticking.  I've done
the simplest thing I know of (oil change) anybody have any ideas for what
direction I could/should go next?

-bob-

p.s.  how many quarts of oil does a "normal" 460 hold?..  I'm getting a
terrible reading on the dipstick that goes about 10 inches past the top of
the "safe" zone after 6 quarts.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:13:26 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson <dpearson ctc.edu>
Subject: Re: tiss the season for ticking?

What does this excess oil look like/smell like?  Is it frothy/milky?
Does it smell like gas still?

Bob wrote:
>
> I posted yesterday that I too was hearing a bunch of ticking (coming from
> what sound like the heads).  Some had thought it was gas getting into the
> oil via a bad fuel pump.  I have a new fuel pump as of yesterday, and I
> flushed/changed the oil/filter this afternoon.  Still ticking.  I've done
> the simplest thing I know of (oil change) anybody have any ideas for what
> direction I could/should go next?
>
> -bob-
>
> p.s.  how many quarts of oil does a "normal" 460 hold?..  I'm getting a
> terrible reading on the dipstick that goes about 10 inches past the top of
> the "safe" zone after 6 quarts.
>

------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Chattering top end
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:32:52 -0500


Bob writes:  >>Trucks getting the fuel it needs, but now the lifters seem to be knocking.
A light chatter has appeared on top of the engine.  BOTH sides.  I'm going
to flush the engine, change the oil and see if this helps.  The engine was
running OH SO NICE before my little fuel line issues.  Any other things I
should check/do?<<

Most likely got some gasoline in your oilpan and thinned out your oil to the point
that it isn't doing its job properly.  If it clears up with an oil/filter change that is it.
If it doesn't clear up with the oil/filter change, you might have more severe problems..
I think it will clear, but.....

Good luck

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: list maintainence
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:38:23 -0500


Ken writes:  >>Yes it could be done.  But who would maintain this daily list?  It
would be a lot of work.<<

Could it be established and each person make their addition??  As you know I'm
computer illiterate, so I haven't a clue....


Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: "Eric Washburn" <bruce9 flash.net>
Subject: Re: list maintainence
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:47:33 -0500

I know most forms of the HTML(XML, DHTML), (just in case you want to know)
=)

-----Original Message-----
From: 61-79-list-bounce ford-trucks.com
[mailto:61-79-list-bounce ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Azie L. Magnusson
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 6:38 PM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [61-79-list] list maintainence



Ken writes:  >>Yes it could be done.  But who would maintain this daily
list?  It
would be a lot of work.<<

Could it be established and each person make their addition??  As you know
I'm
computer illiterate, so I haven't a clue....


Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.

=============================================================
To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
Please remove this footer when replying.



------------------------------

From: TBeeee aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:33:06 EDT
Subject: Time to go bye-bye...........

In case anyone wonders.....I have to leave town on business and will not have
computer access.  I'll be signing off for a week or so.  I'll miss the
list....so long for now.

Thom
1967 F-Series Registry
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://hometown.aol.com/tbeeee

------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" <flash1 alltel.net>
Subject: 61  F/E engine swaps
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:39:51 -0400

Just got my new auto krafters book
www.autokrafters.com
has a motor support for the F/E swap into a 61
part.no.td4037 the kit is 102.95
gordon



------------------------------

From: "Bob" <xavetarx home.com>
Subject: Re: tiss the season for ticking?
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:36:01 -0400

The old oil looked like regular oil (no milky taint), and I don't recall a
gas smell, though I didn't sniff real deep.


What does this excess oil look like/smell like?  Is it frothy/milky?
Does it smell like gas still?

Bob wrote:
>
> I posted yesterday that I too was hearing a bunch of ticking (coming from
> what sound like the heads).  Some had thought it was gas getting into the
> oil via a bad fuel pump.  I have a new fuel pump as of yesterday, and I
> flushed/changed the oil/filter this afternoon.  Still ticking.  I've done
> the simplest thing I know of (oil change) anybody have any ideas for what
> direction I could/should go next?


------------------------------

From: "Don Thurlow" <don.thurlow greenbaynet.com>
Subject: Re: Time to go bye-bye...........
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:52:40 -0500

later
----- Original Message -----
From: <TBeeee aol.com>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 7:33 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] Time to go bye-bye...........


> In case anyone wonders.....I have to leave town on business and will not
have
> computer access.  I'll be signing off for a week or so.  I'll miss the
> list....so long for now.
>
> Thom
> 1967 F-Series Registry
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://hometown.aol.com/tbeeee
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>


------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:36:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick

>But that aside, I'm curious as to what the noise could be. Would a crank
>bearing or connecting rod make that sort of noise?

Possibly, I've also had a wrist pin ticking/clicking as well ... there was a
tick/knock in my 360 only during idle that was there for over a year with no
problems til I pulled it, still dunno what that was for sure, but I'd guess
bearings.

>Good thing I have the other truck to drive when this one bites the bullet
>this winter...
>

Since you have a backup truck you can almost bet it will last the whole winter,
or until you decide to work on the other one.

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:29:56 -0400
From: somalley voyager2.cns.ohiou.edu (Sean O'Malley)
Subject: Re: 4 bbl on a 300

> Yes... Lokar - 2 foot kit will do you plenty-- get a lokar throttle cable
> adapter spring retainer clip (bolts to base of carb) and thread the hting
> into it and clip on your return springs.. Works awesome on a 500/600cfm

Cool, and thanks.  Got the parts on order.  Now I just get to wait...

I think I'll borrow a digital camera and document the process.
Assuming, of course, that the process ends up being something I'm
willing to admit to :).

--sean

------------------------------

End of 61-79-list Digest V2000 #300 ....


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