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61-79-list Digest Wed, 04 Oct 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 277

In This Issue:
Re: K & N vs the rest
Re: paper air filters
Re: paper air filters
Re: paper air filters
Re: Stiff steering update
Re: K & N vs the rest
Re: paper air filters
Re: K & N vs the rest
Won't start
Steering stiffness solved
Re: FT's and FE's- lots of ????s
Pitman Arm
Re: paper air filters
Re: paper air filters
Re: Pitman Arm
Re: Pitman Arm
Re: paper air filters
Re: Pitman Arm
Re: paper air filters
Re: paper air filters
Re: paper air filters
Re: paper air filters
Re: paper air filters
Re: paper air filters
Goin bye bye!
Re: a cleaner air cleaner
Re: K&N air filters (my opinion)
emissions control
Propane system
Re: paper air filters

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brazzadog aol.com
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 23:47:00 EDT
Subject: Re: K & N vs the rest

> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 11:42:29 -0500
>  From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>
>
>  I'm being snotty. ITYS = I Told You So. The air filter article confirms my
>  contention that the K&N provides no significant benefit to the typical
daily
>  driver.

While I couldn't find the article on the website, I have come to the same
conclusion based on other studies.  I used to always change my filter every
couple of years whether it needed it or not -- until I moved to the desert.

Dust storms are so frequent that I went through paper filters every couple of
months.  I use stock replacement K&Ns now and am pretty happy with the
economics.  The thing that concerns me is whether or not all that easy
breathing is letting in a bunch of dirt.  I didn't think of that until I'd
already invested in the filters. : (  I've never seen conclusive evidence
that filtration doesn't suffer as a result of the increased air flow.  I'm
hoping K&N is smart enough not to shoot themselves (and me) in the foot.

Ben Williams
'71 Wagoneer
'78 F-250 4x4
'88 Bronco

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 02:27:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Hall <sch8489 garnet.acns.fsu.edu>
Subject: Re: paper air filters

On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, John LaGrone wrote:

> > the amount of air they suck is *HUGE* compared to the amount your truck
> > sucks.  more, proportionally.
>
> Assuming this is not an insult, where does the air sucked in by the air
> filter, but not the truck, go? I am confused.

I think I didn't say that correctly--your truck (or anybody else's, unless
they have a peterbuilt) doesn't suck as much air as a semi.  or: gas
engines use less air.  both because they're smaller (displacement, and in
the case of big rigs, *lots* smaller), and because of the size and number
of cylinders (tend to have more stroke/bore and fewer cylinders on the
no-pluggers), and because they combust and inhale their fuel differently
(long topic).  to summarize: gas engines use less air ;-). this is true
when displacement is equal, but *really* noticeable if you were to
compare, say a big cummings turbo to your 390.

so they need bigger/better/more air filtering capabilities, which is why
you see bigger filters on semis, and more than one.

scott


------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" <flash1 alltel.net>
Subject: Re: paper air filters
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 05:58:25 -0400

o they need bigger/better/more air filtering capabilities, which is why
> you see bigger filters on semis, and more than one.
>
> scott
>
> =============================================================
BUT if the paper filters are not as good as the other types why do semis use
them instead of the other types
gordon



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 06:49:49 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson <dpearson ctc.edu>
Subject: Re: paper air filters

Not being a diesel expert in any way, I hesitate to comment (not that it
stops anyone else), but isn't the fuel-air feed process different for
diesel fuel than for gasoline?  I' suggesting and asking at the same
time, since I really don't know for sure...

ALso, I haven't been looking, but are K&N filters available for
diesels?  If they are, I bet they are pricey...The air box set-up for my
D*r*ng* was just under $200, and that was with $50 knocked off because
I'm such a good-looking guy...

Also, who said we couldn't go on for days about sucking air...

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:54:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Stiff steering update

>You can get a Borgeson replacement shaft with a replaceable bearing for a
>lot less than $800.
>

There's also the parts list for the Spicer stuff that Tony put together, that's
the route I went and it works great ... though I think you could actually get
2 splined shafts if you can get a guy to cut the old one off nice and easy you'll
find there are splined under there and you could slip that on just like the
other side.

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:54:58 GMT
Subject: Re: K & N vs the rest

>Just on weekends? =P
>

Good point, but the limits are higher on weekends when I'm on track with R-compound
tires, so I can use more throttle :)

Right CJ ?

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:03:19 GMT
Subject: Re: paper air filters

>On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, John LaGrone wrote:
>
>> > the amount of air they suck is *HUGE* compared to the amount your truck

>> > sucks.  more, proportionally.
>>
>> Assuming this is not an insult, where does the air sucked in by the air
>> filter, but not the truck, go? I am confused.
>
>I think I didn't say that correctly--your truck (or anybody else's, unless

>they have a peterbuilt) doesn't suck as much air as a semi.

Uhm, I don't think PSD's use throttlebody's either ... its pretty much a gas
vs. diesel thing ...


> or: gas
>engines use less air.  both because they're smaller (displacement, and in
>the case of big rigs, *lots* smaller), and because of the size and number
>of cylinders (tend to have more stroke/bore and fewer cylinders on the
>no-pluggers),

Uhm ... am I the only one who is thinking DUH!!!!    if the cylinders are smaller
and there's the same number, then they'll displace less ... because isn't it
Pi*bore*bore*stroke*no.cyls./4 that determines displacement ? So the size and
number of cylinders has everything to do with the displacement ...

> and because they combust and inhale their fuel differently
>(long topic).

Not really ... in a gas engine, to change the speed of the motor you control
the air flow ... in a diesel you control the fuel flow.  That means diesel's
run with the equivalent of wide open throttle all the time ... this doesn't
really mean they suck in more air necessarily, remember they're pulling fewer
RPM's than most cars/trucks are (especially pre-overdrive trucks), so you'd
have to factor that in as well ... along with the volumetric efficiency of the
motor in question ... I'm sure I could sit down and figure it all out if you
gave me some numbers, but in the end I think you'll see that really the need
for more air comes from a bigger displacement and more power being put out,
not a generalized gas vs. diesel argument ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "Eric Washburn" <bruce9 flash.net>
Subject: Re: K & N vs the rest
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:13:27 -0500

hehe

-----Original Message-----
From: u00008 ford-trucks.net [mailto:u00008 ford-trucks.net]On Behalf Of
wish
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 7:55 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: K & N vs the rest


>Just on weekends? =P
>

Good point, but the limits are higher on weekends when I'm on track with
R-compound
tires, so I can use more throttle :)

Right CJ ?

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com
=============================================================
To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
Please remove this footer when replying.



------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Won't start
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:13:15 -0500


OX writes in response to Eric's "No Start" dilemma:  >>If you jump power
straight to starter and it does not kick, it's bad or you have a bad
ground. <<

Or a dead battery!!!!


Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Steering stiffness solved
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:22:49 -0500


John writes:  >>A half hour with oil and working in the vice
and everything is as good as new (almost).<<

Congratulations.  Ain't this list great...


Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: Natp244 cs.com
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:41:19 EDT
Subject: Re: FT's and FE's- lots of ????s

In a message dated 10/4/00 3:34:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
kendrick mddc.com writes:

<< > 3) Can a 391(or 361) be used in a F-250?  Would tranny compatibility be a
> problem?  Would there be any other problems with doing this?

Mabye. If you can get the 13" or 14" clutch and bellhousing under the floor
board of the F250, it'll work. The other option is to have the crank flange
machined down to match that of an FE, so you can use an 11" or 12" clutch
with a regular FE bellhousing and tranny.

As far as I know, most of this info is correct, however, I have been wrong
before!:-) >>

I guess I didn't ask this part of my question correctly, but I think you gave
me the answer I needed anyway. What I was really wanting to know was if a
regular "pickup" transmission would bolt up to an FT, but I see from your
post that it would not be a direct swap.   I suppose that would means that
without mods I would be limited to a sluggish, long-throw big truck tranny if
I used an FT block.. that's bad.

Thanks for your reply.  I guess I'll just have to keep weighing the pros and
cons.

Nate

------------------------------

From: "Dave Emerick" <djemerick hotmail.com>
Subject: Pitman Arm
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 10:35:03 EST

I'm in need of a pitman arm for a '78 F-250 4x4.....I've checked with
Ford,NAPA,Autozone, etc,etc...with no luck.  I've also checked with local
scrapers...no luck.

I give...any suggestions or suppliers still have this?

Thanks

Dave
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hotmail.com.

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------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:48:47 EDT
Subject: Re: paper air filters

In a message dated 10/5/2000 6:50:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
dpearson ctc.edu writes:


> Not being a diesel expert in any way, I hesitate to comment (not that it
> stops anyone else), but isn't the fuel-air feed process different for
> diesel fuel than for gasoline?  I' suggesting and asking at the same
> time, since I really don't know for sure...
>

If I get what your asking, then yes, because a diesel always has the same
amount of air in the cylinder (with exception to boost amount) the only real
change is fuel amount.

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:49:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Hall <sch8489 garnet.acns.fsu.edu>
Subject: Re: paper air filters

they're cheap?

On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, G & J Boling wrote:

> BUT if the paper filters are not as good as the other types why do semis use
> them instead of the other types


------------------------------

From: "Don Thurlow" <don.thurlow greenbaynet.com>
Subject: Re: Pitman Arm
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:51:25 -0500

Dave is this what your looking for?

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jcwhitney.com/productnoitem.jhtml?CATID=59996

Jcwhitney always has something *shrugz*
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Emerick" <djemerick hotmail.com>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 10:35 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] Pitman Arm


> I'm in need of a pitman arm for a '78 F-250 4x4.....I've checked with
> Ford,NAPA,Autozone, etc,etc...with no luck.  I've also checked with local
> scrapers...no luck.
>
> I give...any suggestions or suppliers still have this?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://profiles.msn.com.
>
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:00:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Finn <ecfinn yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pitman Arm

Would one off a '78 Bronco work for you?  I don't know but I think I have
any extra out out next to my garage.  Is the steering setup different with
the front leaves vs. the front coil springs?

Later,

Eric Finn
'78 Bronco "The Beast" (and lots of spare '78 parts laying around...)

--- Dave Emerick <djemerick hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm in need of a pitman arm for a '78 F-250 4x4.....I've checked with
> Ford,NAPA,Autozone, etc,etc...with no luck.  I've also checked with
> local
> scrapers...no luck.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://photos.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:17:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Hall <sch8489 garnet.acns.fsu.edu>
Subject: Re: paper air filters

On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, wish wrote:

> >I think I didn't say that correctly--your truck (or anybody else's, unless
>
> >they have a peterbuilt) doesn't suck as much air as a semi.
>
> Uhm, I don't think PSD's use throttlebody's either ... its pretty much a gas
> vs. diesel thing ...

sorry, I'll be *more* specific (or maybe less): I said peterbuilt as an
example of a diesel.  to restate: "your truck (unless you *actually* have
a big diesel rig) doesn't suck as much air as a big diesel rig."

> > or: gas
> >engines use less air.  both because they're smaller (displacement, and in
> >the case of big rigs, *lots* smaller), and because of the size and number
> >of cylinders (tend to have more stroke/bore and fewer cylinders on the
> >no-pluggers),
>
> Uhm ... am I the only one who is thinking DUH!!!!    if the cylinders are smaller
> and there's the same number, then they'll displace less ... because isn't it
> Pi*bore*bore*stroke*no.cyls./4 that determines displacement ? So the size and
> number of cylinders has everything to do with the displacement ...

read through it again, slower.  for a given displacement, diesels use more
air (for many of the reasons you said below).  the reasons for this have
to do with the bore/stroke dimensions of the cylinder itself, and the
number of them, displacement held constant.  a small bore, long stroke
engine (let's assume a single cyl. to keep it simple for you) will
generate a higher velocity of air flow through the port (and thus the
runner, the carb, and eventually the filter), generally about .75 of the
distance down the stroke.  not a *huge* amount, but it's there.  the
displacement is the same, and the two cylinders are sucking through the
same size port, but a curve of the speed through the port will show slower
at either end and faster (higher) at the peak (for the long stroke, small
bore engine).  this higher speed tends to also generate a little more
*volume* through the port as well (again, we're not talking massive
amounts here, but it's there).  I can break this down if you like,
tonight.  now, if you kept displacement the same, and number of cylinders
the same, you'd get the long stroke engine sucking a little more air.
make one engine have fewer cylinders and greater cyl. displacement (like a
diesel would compared to, say, a ford v-10), and this difference gets more
pronounced--the bigger cyl.s with even longer strokes suck more air again
(I'll break this down tonight, too, if you want--kida pressed right now
for time).  now, make the diesel have a bigger displacement, and you get a
*real* jump in volume.  now let that diesel operate with a continuously
open throttle body (like diesels do), with no restriction in the airflow
and you get *another* jump.  let that engine short circuit (I'll explain
tonight) part of the air/fuel charge through the cylinder because of
the way it draws it into the cylinder (again, like diesels do) and you get
*more* air used.  finally, let it use a different fuel (too much there for
right now), and let it have a turbo.  a billion molecules here, a billion
there, and pretty soon we're talking about some real matter.

> Not really ... in a gas engine, to change the speed of the motor you control
> the air flow ... in a diesel you control the fuel flow.  That means diesel's
> run with the equivalent of wide open throttle all the time ...

right.  which was too much to blather with bed calling.  sorry.

scott


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:31:00 -0700
From: Don Grossman <duckdon mac.com>
Subject: Re: Pitman Arm

>Dave is this what your looking for?
>
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jcwhitney.com/productnoitem.jhtml?CATID=59996
>
>Jcwhitney always has something *shrugz*
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dave Emerick" <djemerick hotmail.com>
>
>>  I'm in need of a pitman arm for a '78 F-250 4x4.....I've checked with
>>  Ford,NAPA,Autozone, etc,etc...with no luck.  I've also checked with local
>>  scrapers...no luck.
>>
>>  I give...any suggestions or suppliers still have this?
>>
>>  Thanks
>>
>  > Dave

That arm is for the F150 and down trucks.  It might work if you had a
6" lift on the F-250 ;)  The new issue of Four Wheeler there is a 78
F-250 that uses that arm and a crossover steering setup with the
78-F-250 steering box so it would fit on the shaft.  Yu couldn't use
it with the stock steering system without a ton of lift or the
springs will be using the steering arm as a bump stop.

If you want/need to have the stock arm, you are gona have to get
lucky and be the first person to find a 78-9 in the junkyard or find
someone who has a 78 steering arm(and steering box and steering shaft
if he remembers correctly) sitting in the shed (over at the folk
place) who has no real use for it(but happened to come across one in
the junkyard) but if he was going to sell it he would want to get rid
of the box and arm (because what good would just the box do without
the arm) right?

Now where could we find someone like that.......? <looking around innocently>

--
Don Grossman
duckdon mac.com

------------------------------

From: "Garrett Nelson" <garrettnelson writeme.com>
Subject: Re: paper air filters
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:34:01 -0500


The same reason new cars and trucks usually come with crappy tires om them. The two most important things a company considers for tires on a new car are cost and rolling resistance. Performance/ life expectancy does not seem to be much of an issue for normal cars.

I don't really see how semis are so different, and how they determine what is a good product or not.

A lot of race cars use K&N filters.

COST is the only reason your semis aren't coming with K&N's on them.

---Garrett www.1966ford.com



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUT if the paper filters are not as good as the other types why do semis use
them instead of the other types
gordon





------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:40:31 EDT
Subject: Re: paper air filters

In a message dated 10/5/2000 9:35:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
garrettnelson writeme.com writes:


> A lot of race cars use K&N filters

and K&N's have also been outlawed in a lot of racing.......

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

From: "Don Thurlow" <don.thurlow greenbaynet.com>
Subject: Re: paper air filters
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:43:47 -0500

I didn't know they have been outlawed? Don't they use them in nascar cars?

-Don
> In a message dated 10/5/2000 9:35:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> garrettnelson writeme.com writes:
>
>
> > A lot of race cars use K&N filters
>
> and K&N's have also been outlawed in a lot of racing.......
>
> Darrell & Tweety
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>


------------------------------

From: "Southerland, Rich" <rsouther alldata.com>
Subject: Re: paper air filters
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:46:15 -0700

Geez, can we go back to talking about Government conspiracies or something?
This is wearin' me out...
;^)

-----Original Message-----
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com [mailto:JUMPINFORD aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:41 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: paper air filters


In a message dated 10/5/2000 9:35:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
garrettnelson writeme.com writes:


> A lot of race cars use K&N filters

and K&N's have also been outlawed in a lot of racing.......

Darrell & Tweety
=============================================================
To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
Please remove this footer when replying.

------------------------------

From: "Keith" <A2JKEITH GCI.NET>
Subject: Re: paper air filters
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:41:39 -0800



A lot of race cars use K&N filters.
COST is the only reason your semis aren't coming with K&N's on them.
--Garrett www.1966ford.com


BUT if the paper filters are not as good as the other types why do semis use
them instead of the other types
gordon


K&N air filters were first made like back in the time of the dinosaur (early
mid 70's) for motorcycles. However if you have looked at the price of todays
filters, one for a newer F250 say a 98-99 will cost you about $25 - $30 you
look at the price on a K&N it will run about $70. You tell me how many air
filters that is to make up for one K&N that if cared for properly will never
have to be replaced, AND, filters out at least, 60% more junk then your
plain jane every day common air filter. Also on the subject of the recharge
kit, they make em now where all ya do is spray the cleaner on wait 15 min,
wash, let air dry, spray the oil on, wait 15 min, and spray lightly again
over any spots that you missed (Inside and outside). I think yall have heard
enough from me today :)
*steps of the soapbox*
Keith
71 F250 4wd
81 Ford Courier




------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:21:34 EDT
Subject: Re: paper air filters

In a message dated 10/5/00 9:43:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
don.thurlow greenbaynet.com writes:

<< I didn't know they have been outlawed? Don't they use them in nascar cars?
>>

I know they wont let the ammateur guys run em out at our track.  And it is a
Nascar owned track....

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:25:53 EDT
Subject: Goin bye bye!

Well everyone, Have a good week.  Im leaving in a few hours for the hunt in
northern Nevada.  Trucks are all packed, and hmm, they are all Fords! a 75
F-250 4x4, a 77 F-250 4x4, and a 99 F-350 dually 4x4, and even our trailer,
which used to be a 73 F-100.  Wish us luck, Be seein ya all in a week.

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

From: "Hogan, Tom" <Tom.Hogan kla-tencor.com>
Subject: Re: a cleaner air cleaner
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:52:10 -0700


>
> Ok- I am fairly new to the list, and am intrigued by the
> following statement:
>
> > ...we do discourage private party oil changes. We
> > discourage private party anything....
>
> Who is "we"? (the list?).  Does this really mean I am being
> discouraged from
> performing my own oil changes and maintenance?  Why?  Sorry if I have
> misinterpreted the message here or taken it out of context-
> it wouldn't be the
> first time.
> -Randy
>

No, we as a list encourage you do everything yourself.  We tend to be a
fiercly independant lot who chafe severly whenever some pasty-faced,wants to
look like Regan, whining yuppie robot says what we are doing is harmful to
___________ (children, the environment, cute puppies, etc.).  Ask us for
help and we'll fall all over ourselves to give you an informative and
accurate answer.

I believe the 'WE' referred to above was we as a society who voted in people
who regulated our independence from foreign nationals away.  You wanna do
something about it, get informed and vote this Nov.

Tom H.

------------------------------

From: "Hogan, Tom" <Tom.Hogan kla-tencor.com>
Subject: Re: K&N air filters (my opinion)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:52:09 -0700


>
>
> I installed a 14" x5" open element K&N filer on my 390. I did
> notice a difference in throttle response when I put mine on.
> And it does make the Holley 4 barrel sound really cool when
> it opens up. I do believe it is a good product and actually
> flows more air. I also believe it filters just as good, if
> not better than a paper element if you take care of it. If it
> were snake oil, would all the popular magazines such as Hot
> Rod use and endorse it?
>
> ---Garrett www.1966ford.com
>

If K&N continues to by advertising space in their mags.....Yes!

Sorry the cynic in me got the better of my typing hand. ;0)

Tom H.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:50:14 -0500
Subject: Re: K and N filters
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> I like em and have seen no negative side effects in over 200,000 combined
> miles on my Fords and Mercs.  Money wise, I feel I am ahead vs the price of
> new paper elements every 5k.

Now Stu has the right attitude. BTW Stu, the other day when I wrote that the
V10 had no guts, that was someone else's comment that I was addressing. I
have never operated a V10 equipped Ford, but I hope to some day.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:51:35 -0500
Subject: Re: The Muny Pit
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

>  Well, Rich, showed it to a GSM today
> - he got me to take a much closer look at it - it's NOT mig wire - it's
> square. (that's how small this thing is - probably .5mm dia.  He says it's a
> bearing or ring edge.  Any ideas at all???

Sounds like an oil ring

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 14:06:29 -0500
Subject: Re: paper air filters
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

>> >I think I didn't say that correctly--your truck (or anybody else's, unless
>>
>> >they have a peterbuilt) doesn't suck as much air as a semi.

Thanks. I understand now.

>> Uhm, I don't think PSD's use throttlebody's either ... its pretty much a gas
>> vs. diesel thing ...
>
> sorry, I'll be *more* specific (or maybe less): I said peterbuilt as an
> example of a diesel.  to restate: "your truck (unless you *actually* have
> a big diesel rig) doesn't suck as much air as a big diesel rig."
>gigantic snip<

Also, every Diesel I have driven had a narrow preferred RPM range to run in.
Except for starting up from a standstill, an over the road Diesel won't see
the RPM range an F150 would see. You can calculate your air flow needs
better.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: Re: paper air filters
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> one for a newer F250 say a 98-99 will cost you about $25 - $30

If I had a 98-99 F250, I wouldn't be on this list, now, would I? If I was
spending $30 bucks a pop for an air filter, I might consider a K&N.

All of the arguments/discussions have been good, but I stick by my original
postulation: For the typical stock 61-79 F150 through F250 used as a daily
driver on paved roads at legal speeds, the K&N offers no major advantage
over regular replacement of paper elements.

Those of you that are screaming cost savings aren't figuring in your own
labor spent cleaning the K&N. I can replace my paper element in under a
minute.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:39:43 -0600
From: "Randy Cannon" <rcannon ussynthetic.com>
Subject: emissions control

I took my recently purchased '79 f-250 supercab w/460 for an emissions
inspection today (required for registration).  Tuns out the smog pump
and etc. have been removed- which is an automatic FAIL.  Looks like I'll
be calling the wrecking yards today.  Not that I am unconcerned about
the environment, but damn I hate these inspections.


------------------------------

From: "Jason and Kathy" <kendrick mddc.com>
Subject: Propane system
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:48:10 -0500

When I bought my '78 F150, it had a partial propane system installed-or some
parts were missing. Iether way, I have the peice that sits on top of the
carb and the peice that sits on the fender that all the hoses hook up to. A
freind is interested in these parts, but I have no idea how much to ask for
them. Any ideas?
Jason Kendrick


------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:59:28 GMT
Subject: Re: paper air filters

>ALso, I haven't been looking, but are K&N filters available for
>diesels?  If they are, I bet they are pricey...The air box set-up for my
>D*r*ng* was just under $200, and that was with $50 knocked off because ....


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