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Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 15:40:18 -0400 (EDT)
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To: 61-79-list digest users <listar ford-trucks.com>
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Subject: 61-79-list Digest V2000 #257
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------------------------------------
61-79-list Digest Sat, 23 Sep 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 257

In This Issue:
Re: Synthetic vs Dino Oil
Re: Oil in water
Re: Pre-Lubers
Re: question about welding
Re: Frame Cleaning
Re: Frame Cleaning
Re: Frame Cleaning
460 questions
Re: Frame Cleaning
Re: 460 questions
Re: Frame Cleaning
Re: Frame Cleaning
Re: 460 questions
Re: Frame Cleaning
Re: Frame Cleaning
My apologies
Re: Frame Cleaning
Re: Frame Cleaning
Thermostat Options
I got a nice welder for a good price at...
Re: Thermostat Options
Re: Clean gas tank...
460 engine

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rubberducky23 webtv.net (Danny Ling)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:25:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Synthetic vs Dino Oil

I used the full synthetic stuff... I have nothing against synthetic oil
just I like having a truck that doesnt leak any fluids. I may try the
blended oil next oil change but truck is doing great with regular stuff.

Laters, Danny Ling


------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Oil in water
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 12:23:42 -0700

From all the 160 thermostats that must be running around out there in old
trucks I would guess that we have a more poluted atmosphere and lots of
green flowing freely though a lot of wallets at the gas pump.  The internal
combustion engine is called a "Heat" engine for a good reason.....the hotter
it runs the more efficient it is, up to it's limitations of course.

As already mentioned, the thermostat does not control how the engine cooling
system performs and over heating is virtually always cooling system
performance related unless you actually have a sticking thermostat (I've
never seen one, mine all died fully open).

The thermostat only controls the upper temperature IF the system is working
properly.  If not the thermostat is so much dead weight.  It's job is to
allow more or less cooler coolant to flow through the engine but if the
system is not cooling the coolant the thermostat just stays wide open anyway
and does nothing for the system, it's out of the loop so to speak.

Certain engines (the 351C comes to mind) need a restrictor in the thermostat
housing area to keep the flow under control for "Better" cooling.....go
figure!??

As to the fan, most 460's come with the clutch fan and I like the idea
myself.  Flex fans are a little scary to me and I've heard that they don't
always give the performance when they need it.  For the 460 there is a HD
clutch unit that came on Police cars which is a little more expensive but
more durable at higher rpm.  With a flex fan, metal fatigue will always be
an issue......

Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> Probably not, Howard. I run a 160 but my cooling system is in proper
working
> order.


------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Pre-Lubers
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 12:28:27 -0700

Then there's the clutched, motorized dizzy which turns the oil pump on start
up.......I understand you have to use a small carb with this and relocate
the air cleaner though......:-)

Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)



> > safely take it to a Jiffy Lube this way too :-)  You could even set it
up so
> > the ignition won't work until there is pressure......shall I go on? :-)
>
> Now here is a device that will extend engine life, especially one that
sits
> for weeks or months between starts.



------------------------------

From: "Garrett Nelson" <garrettnelson writeme.com>
Subject: Re: question about welding
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 12:01:40 -0500


Do you have much welding experience? If not then a small 120 volt MIG welder would be your best tool for the job. I recently purchased a 130 amp MIG welder that runs on 120 volt and I am very happy with it. MIG is the easiest way to make great looking welds with little practice in my opinion. Almost all MIG welders are adjustable for a variety of metal thicknesses. My 130 amp model can weld anything from thin sheetmetal up to 1/4" steel.

If you want to buy a welder off the internet, email me off list. I found a great deal on mine.


---Garrett www.1966ford.com


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Negative Image
 To: ford truck list
 Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 11:00 PM
 Subject: [61-79-list] question about welding


 I'm just about ready to weld my new floor boards into my 65 flareside,
 what size welder would i need?

 --
 Andrew Rolfsen
 1971 AMC Javelin SST
 1968 Mercury Cougar
 1966 Plymouth Fury III


 =============================================================
 To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
 Please remove this footer when replying.



------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" <flash1 alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Frame Cleaning
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 14:33:46 -0400

The sand will simply be
> trapped in there by any sealer you apply before the finish coat so what's
> the problem with that?
Gary :-)
======================================================
the problem is it collects moisture and causes RUST and everytime you try
spraying paint on the truck it will blow out and give you a non skid surface
that looks like crap \BUT do it anyway you want to doesnt matter to me
gordon



------------------------------

From: "Bill Beyer" <bbeyer99 home.com>
Subject: Re: Frame Cleaning
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:58:45 -0700

And just how would sand sealed in with sealer and/or paint collect moisture?
Besides a quick blast with some 90-100 psi air will remove 99% of the sand
or dust leftover. It's a lot less likely to bleed out like a chemical
stripper

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

----- Original Message -----
From: "G & J Boling" <flash1 alltel.net>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 11:33 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: Frame Cleaning


> The sand will simply be
> > trapped in there by any sealer you apply before the finish coat so
what's
> > the problem with that?
> Gary :-)
> ======================================================
> the problem is it collects moisture and causes RUST and everytime you try
> spraying paint on the truck it will blow out and give you a non skid
surface
> that looks like crap \BUT do it anyway you want to doesnt matter to me




------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" <flash1 alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Frame Cleaning
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 18:17:45 -0400




> And just how would sand sealed in with sealer and/or paint collect
moisture?
=========================================================
dont worry it will
been there done that
my brother and i done a 70 roadrunner a few years ago
we blew sand out of it every day for week NOW its still got sand falling out
of it and IF the engines in it OH BOY even if you think youve got it all
sealed off it will get sand in things then trouble big time then
those sand particles will go into places you cant imagine it can get into
but go ahead and blast it and have fun then in a couple of years let me know
where its rusted again at
gordon



------------------------------

From: "Rob Hutson" <tx4wheeler cs.com>
Subject: 460 questions
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:12:37 -0500

Can a camshaft with more lift be installed in a 460 that has non-adjustable
rocker arms without converting to adjustable rockers?

EGR and Non-EGR aftermarket intake manifolds... can anyone elaborate on
these.  What will happen if you run a non-egr on an engine that should have
a egr version?

When using an aftermarket intake manifold, do you still need the valley pan
gasket or can you just use regular intake manifold gaskets?

Thanks guys...


Robert Hutson (TX4Wheeler)
1978 Ford Bronco
2BigBroncos South Chapter
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.xoom.com/hutsonr


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:25:55 -0500
From: Stu Varner <nukegm ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: Frame Cleaning

>> And just how would sand sealed in with sealer and/or paint collect
>moisture?
>=========================================================
>dont worry it will
>been there done that
>my brother and i done a 70 roadrunner a few years ago
>we blew sand out of it every day for week NOW its still got sand falling out
>of it and IF the engines in it OH BOY even if you think youve got it all
>sealed off it will get sand in things then trouble big time then
>those sand particles will go into places you cant imagine it can get into
>but go ahead and blast it and have fun then in a couple of years let me know
>where its rusted again at
>gordon
>

Strange......I sandblasted my 71 4x4 frame, blew it out with air and
painted it with Eastwood's epoxy frame paint and (over two years later) I
have never seen *any* sand anywhere around, under, inside or in any other
place for that matter.    Plan to do the very same to my 68 two wheel drive
frame in the next few months.  I am very happy with my results and there is
no rust on my frame.  Media blasting may be a better way but sand is cheap
and works well IMHO!

There is more than one way to do a job right.

*If* anyone is preparing to flame - get in line and get a number.  8^)

Stu
Nuke GM!
http://www.ford-trucks.com/~nukegm     (for sale!!!)

------------------------------

From: "Bill Beyer" <bbeyer99 home.com>
Subject: Re: 460 questions
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 15:40:45 -0700

Yes you can run a cam with more lift but you may need to get shorter
pushrods.

Engines designed to run EGR may tend to ping if run without it.

Check the manifold manufacturer's recommendations on which type of gasket to
use. I used the valley pan on mine even when I put on an Edelbrock
Performer.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Hutson" <tx4wheeler cs.com>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 3:12 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] 460 questions


> Can a camshaft with more lift be installed in a 460 that has
non-adjustable
> rocker arms without converting to adjustable rockers?
>
> EGR and Non-EGR aftermarket intake manifolds... can anyone elaborate on
> these.  What will happen if you run a non-egr on an engine that should
have
> a egr version?
>
> When using an aftermarket intake manifold, do you still need the valley
pan
> gasket or can you just use regular intake manifold gaskets?
>




------------------------------

From: "Jason and Kathy" <kendrick mddc.com>
Subject: Re: Frame Cleaning
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 18:01:10 -0500

 I've seen several cars that were sandblasted before they were restored by
a professional blaster, and the results were very good. Of course, these
cars were completely disassembled before blasting, so cleaning the parts up
was much easier. I think something as simple as a frame shouldn't be a big
deal. And if you think you can blast just one area and not get sand
everywhere, like an assembled Roadrunner, you're in for a surprise.
Jason Kendrick





------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" <flash1 alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Frame Cleaning
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 22:12:10 -0400

I think something as simple as a frame shouldn't be a big
> deal. And if you think you can blast just one area and not get sand
> everywhere, like an assembled Roadrunner, you're in for a surprise.
> Jason Kendrick
=============================================================
well it wasnt JUST one area and it wasnt completely assembled and my brother
that was doing it IS a body man that RESTORES cars for a living as well as
heavy collision on them
this isnt the first one we done and we have had similar results with the
others what i am getting at is its almost impossible to get ALL the sand out
of them BUT have it your way i could care less its your car do as you wish
and if your so professional doing it WHY ask for opinions then if you dont
want them
gordon



------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" <flash1 alltel.net>
Subject: Re: 460 questions
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 23:09:34 -0400



> Can a camshaft with more lift be installed in a 460 that has
non-adjustable
> rocker arms without converting to adjustable rockers?
==========================================================
YES you can run a pretty high lift without installing adjustable rockers OR
shorter push rods i KNOW you can stick at least a 520 lift in it with no
mods to it
--------------------------------------------------------
>
> EGR and Non-EGR aftermarket intake manifolds... can anyone elaborate on
> these.  What will happen if you run a non-egr on an engine that should
have
> a egr version?
>==========================================================
NOTHING will happen to it
its done all the time
---------------------------------------------------
> When using an aftermarket intake manifold, do you still need the valley
pan
> gasket or can you just use regular intake manifold gaskets?
Robert Hutson (TX4Wheeler)
======================================================
the valley pan is to keep the hot oil off of the intake manifold so it
doesnt get burned on there and keep the fuel hotter than it should be or
COKE up the bottom of the intake as some call it
it does have a purpose so if possible reinstall it if you use a hi po intake
but it will run without it tho also
gordon




------------------------------

From: "Jason and Kathy" <kendrick mddc.com>
Subject: Re: Frame Cleaning
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 22:42:13 -0500


Gordon wrote;

> well it wasnt JUST one area and it wasnt completely assembled and my
brother
> that was doing it IS a body man that RESTORES cars for a living as well as
> heavy collision on them
> this isnt the first one we done and we have had similar results with the
> others what i am getting at is its almost impossible to get ALL the sand
out
> of them

Gordon, I have the utmost respect for your brother as a bodyman. I've tried
it and I couldn't stand doing it for a living. My hat's off to him. If I had
the money and no time to blast it myself, I would have my truck chemically
dipped. Since money doesn't grow in trees where I live and I have the time,
I'd choose to sandblast the parts-after they were disassembled.

>BUT have it your way i could care less its your car do as you wish
> and if your so professional doing it WHY ask for opinions then if you dont
> want them
> gordon

HUH?? Where did you get the impression that I was doing any work on any car
or truck? And I sure don't seem to recall asking for anyone's opinions on
this subject! I simply offered my opinion on the subject. I beleive it was
Christopher Worley who was asking for advice. Get your facts straight before
you attack me on the list.
Jason Kendrick


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 22:54:50 -0500
From: Dan Herrmann <herrmann in-motion.net>
Subject: Re: Frame Cleaning

At 10:12 PM 9/23/00 -0400, you wrote:

>=============================================================
BUT have it your way i could care less its your car do as you wish
>and if your so professional doing it WHY ask for opinions then if you dont
>want them
>gordon
>=============================================================


What kind of Childish talk is this?


Dan Herrmann



------------------------------

From: "Jason and Kathy" <kendrick mddc.com>
Subject: My apologies
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 23:03:16 -0500

Good members of the list, I apologize for my last message on the subject of
frame cleaning. Not only did it not have any value or bits of wisdom for the
list, it should have been sent offlist, where it belonged. Again, my
apologies...
Jason Kendrick


------------------------------

From: "Christopher Worley" <cworley76 hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Frame Cleaning
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 04:12:34 GMT

Come on guys, just chill out and have fun, life's too short to pissed at
each other, I just asked a simple question, everyone has there own opinion
for every question, I expected that.  People who ask questions on the list
get a multitude of opinions and answers, that is what makes this list better
than most, because we can have the diverse answers and start a good
discussion, not get on each others a**.

Chris Worley
67  F-100


>From: "Jason and Kathy" <kendrick mddc.com>
>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
>Subject: [61-79-list] Re: Frame Cleaning
>Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 22:42:13 -0500
>
>
>Gordon wrote;
>
> > well it wasn't JUST one area and it wasn't completely assembled and my
>brother
> > that was doing it IS a body man that RESTORES cars for a living as well
>as
> > heavy collision on them
> > this isn't the first one we done and we have had similar results with
>the
> > others what i am getting at is its almost impossible to get ALL the sand
>out
> > of them
>
>Gordon, I have the utmost respect for your brother as a bodyman. I've tried
>it and I couldn't stand doing it for a living. My hat's off to him. If I
>had
>the money and no time to blast it myself, I would have my truck chemically
>dipped. Since money doesn't grow in trees where I live and I have the time,
>I'd choose to sandblast the parts-after they were disassembled.
>
> >BUT have it your way i could care less its your car do as you wish
> > and if your so professional doing it WHY ask for opinions then if you
>dont
> > want them
> > gordon
>
>HUH?? Where did you get the impression that I was doing any work on any car
>or truck? And I sure don't seem to recall asking for anyone's opinions on
>this subject! I simply offered my opinion on the subject. I beleive it was
>Christopher Worley who was asking for advice. Get your facts straight
>before
>you attack me on the list.
>Jason Kendrick
>
>=============================================================
>To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
>Please remove this footer when replying.
>

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------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" <flash1 alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Frame Cleaning
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 00:31:07 -0400

>
>
> What kind of Childish talk is this?
>
>
> Dan Herrmann
>
>
> =============================================================
well i try to save some of you some big future headaches and get insulted
for it so like i said do it your way and i,ll just set back and forget about
it all if no one wants to hear it and waste their time and end up regretting
it i used to do sand blasting for a living myself commercially all over the
country and Know what you can and cant do succesfully with it and had
extensive training in doing it properly but the experts here basicly are
saying i dont know what i am talking about
so it doesnt matter to me i was just trying to help some of you fellas
gordon



------------------------------

From: "Michael" <danger csolutions.net>
Subject: Thermostat Options
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 23:49:02 -0700

   Would an FE big block with 10:1 compression be affected by different
thermostats, and if so, how is it affected? Would you use a 180 or 195
degree thermo, and why? What is the optimum operating temperature for a
slightly modified FE big block with 4V intake and headers?

Michael
69 F250 390 4V, T18, 3.54 LS
69 F250 390 4V, C6, 4.11
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.csolutions.net/myth/ford/



------------------------------

From: "Garrett Nelson" <garrettnelson writeme.com>
Subject: I got a nice welder for a good price at...
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 00:46:58 -0500


Well since a lot of people seem to be interested, I will send it to the list.

I got my welder from:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mytoolstore.com/astro/astwel01.html#mig13

I got the 130 amp model and so far I am very happy with it. Works just as good as the Lincoln's that cost twice as much. It is a MIG welder, and comes with the regulator. You have to buy the bottle of gas separately, mine cost about $50 at a local store.

The total price I paid including shipping was $340.

Oh, and if you are concerned about finding parts for a lesser known brand, I bought some new tips today that were for a Miller welder, and they worked just fine.

I have done quite a bit of welding with it, and it has performed beautifully. So far I have done mostly sheetmetal, and today I welded up some exhaust pipes.

Some advice for you: If you are going to be welding thin sheetmetal and don't have much welding experience, buy some nice thin stuff to practice on. Thin sheetmetal is very easy to burn right through if you are not careful. After some practice you will get the hang of it though.




---Garrett www.1966ford.com












----- Original Message -----
 From: Eric Finn
 To: garrettnelson writeme.com
 Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 6:31 PM
 Subject: Re: [61-79-list] Re: question about welding


 Garrett,

 Ok I'm not Andrew but I'd still be interested in the deal you found on the
 welder.  I'm going to have to weld in some new floor pans in the not too
 distant future and having no welding experience I'd like to keep it simple
 for now.

 Thanks,

 Eric Finn
 '78 Bronco "The Beast" (Project still in progress!)

 --- Garrett Nelson <garrettnelson writeme.com> wrote:
 >
 > Do you have much welding experience? If not then a small 120 volt MIG
 > welder would be your best tool for the job. I recently purchased a 130
 > amp MIG welder that runs on 120 volt and I am very happy with it. MIG is
 > the easiest way to make great looking welds with little practice in my
 > opinion. Almost all MIG welders are adjustable for a variety of metal
 > thicknesses. My 130 amp model can weld anything from thin sheetmetal up
 > to 1/4" steel.
 >
 > If you want to buy a welder off the internet, email me off list. I found
 > a great deal on mine.





------------------------------

From: "Michael" <danger csolutions.net>
Subject: Re: Thermostat Options
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 02:35:57 -0700

>     Would an FE big block with 10:1 compression be affected by different
> thermostats, and if so, how is it affected? Would you use a 180 or 195
> degree thermo, and why? What is the optimum operating temperature for a
> slightly modified FE big block with 4V intake and headers?

   Sorry, I should have been more clear when posting the previous message.
The reason I'm asking these questions is because I'm trying to do everything
I can to avoid the problems associated with 10:1 compression without
actually reducing compression. Which operating temps (thermostats) have a
tendency to induce pinging, and which have a tendency to prevent pinging?

   What tips/tricks can be done to aid an FE big block at 10:1? I really
believe that a 4V intake, large cam, 6-8 degrees advance, headers, and high
flow exhaust help a great deal, but what other tips/tricks are useful?

Michael



------------------------------

From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" <tim-pam williams-net.com>
Subject: Re: Clean gas tank...
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 11:31:45 -0400

best thing that I can reccomend  is to take it somewhere to have it steam
cleaned on the inside.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Pearson <dpearson ctc.edu>
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Date: Thursday, September 21, 2000 9:33 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] Clean gas tank...


>
>
> Well, this should start an interesting thread...I'm getting ready to
>clean a gas tank that's got about 15 years of rust and crud built up in
>it...Any good/innovative (easy) ideas?
>
>I'm counting on you guys and gals...
>=============================================================
>To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
>Please remove this footer when replying.
>


------------------------------

From: "Dawn Chere" <dawnchere ados.com>
Subject: 460 engine
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:42:31 -0700


Anyone know of a place in Portland OR area where I can get a 460 that's not too expensive?

My oil was looking like chocolate milk so I changed it to see if it was because it didn't have a distributor for heaven only knows how long. ....


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