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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:31:51 -0400 (EDT)
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61-79-list Digest Wed, 13 Sep 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 244

In This Issue:
Re: Heater not heating in Alaska
Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Re: OK Engine gurus...
Re: Hydrogen power for anyone
Re: October 4-Whl&Off-Rd, Thermostat question
Re: heater
Re: 400 dyno results
Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Re: 400 dyno results
Re: October 4-Whl&Off-Rd, Thermostat question
Re: Hydrogen power for anyone
Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Re: Cheater Bars
Stabbing the distributor, was OK Engine Gurus
Re: Cheater Bars
Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Re: Heater not heating in Alaska
Re: Cheater Bars

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: GMontgo930 aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 23:21:49 EDT
Subject: Re: Heater not heating in Alaska

I'm missing somthing here. How is restricting the flow in the bypass hose
going to reduce the flow to the radiator? NOw I'll agree that installing an
orfice will reduce the flow through the block (when the thermostat is
closed). If anything it'll increase the flow through the Rad (when the state
is open of course).
It's much like parallel circuits in electronics, restrict one path, and the
others get more (given the flow is there).

George M in Fl.


In a message dated 9/13/2000 12:21:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
maggie11 HiWAAY.net writes:

<<
I agree with John here.  I'd also like to add this::  Try restricting the
bypass hose
(the one that bypasses the T'stat).  It is about the size of heater hose,
but in drastic
climates such as in Alaska, it might help to take one end of that hose off
and
insert a short piece of plastic pipe that would act as an orfice and
restrict the
amount of fluid that is allowing the coolant to go into the radiator,
thereby allowing
the engine to cool....


Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.
 >>

------------------------------

From: "Michael" <danger csolutions.net>
Subject: Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:47:18 -0700

   I think the distance between the exit end of headers and where tubes
come together for the Super Competition is about 2 inches longer than the
Competition headers.


> Speaking of which =P, I noticed my headers say Hooker Super Competition
> Headers(for a 240/300), what's the difference between Super Comp and Comp?



------------------------------

From: "Jason Derra" <derrar internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: OK Engine gurus...
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:44:53 -0700

Roll it around to TDC #1 compression (where the timing marks are lined up at
0 adv).  You will know TDC when there is air coming from the #1 spark plug
hole.  Then drop the dizzy in to line the rotor up with the #1 wire
position.
Jason
'69 Bronco 5.0 HO EFI, NP435
'96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke E4OD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Beyer" <bbeyer99 home.com>
To: "61-79 List" <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 1:31 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] OK Engine gurus...


> I'm helping my neighbor swap the engine in his pickup. Unfortunately I got
> there a little late and one of his buddies had pulled the distributor
> without making any marks on ANYTHING. I know how to install a distributor
> but how the !#$% do I figure out where to set the thing initially?
Anybody?
>
> "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"
>
>
>
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 05:54:39 -0700
From: Greg <greg gregster.com>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen power for anyone



JUMPINFORD aol.com wrote:

> I found this website, thought you might be interested.  I was curious, so I
> started digging around and low and behold, the rumor is true.  With a lil
> work, we can all drive around, filling up with tap water!  I had really been
> considering Propane due to the cost of gas.  Well this system uses a lot of
> the same stuff, but also tells you how to make the hydrogen generator.  Im
> definately going to research this further, but from the way this sounds, it
> wont be hard at all.  Think about it, 460's runnin 12:1 compression, with no
> flooding, no pinging, good mileage, and FREE FUEL!!!  Id appreciate your
> input on this folks, but it REALLY sounds interesting.  Heres the URL  http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://
> www.inlex.org/water/water.html
>
> Darrell & Tweety

I've checked into this in the past also. There's more to it than just building a
hyd. generator. One source of info claims you need to replace all inside engine
components (valves, pistons, ect.) with stainless steel because the burning of
hyd. produces water for exhaust instead of carbon monoxide ... NO POLLUTION.
Another sourc claims stainless components are not needed if the vehicle is used
every day. Experimentation is needed I guess.

Be very careful with this kinda stuff. The oil companies and gov agencies DO NOT
LIKE this! As a couple examples: ( I forget the exact dates) In the 40's, a
canadian named Pogue (I think) invented a vaprorizer carb that got 200 MPG in a V8
Ford. Where is this carb today??  -- The Model T engine was designed with holes in
the bell housing which would except cow magnets. Once the engine was started, it
would run with no fuel due to magnetic forces. A couple guys once demonstrated
this at a alternative energy exibit. That evening, these 2 guys were found, car
ran of the road, their throats slit and the engine missing. I'll find that article
an post it. -- In the 50's, Rory Johnson invented an electro-magnetic motor the
size af a 20" truck rim that produced around 500 HP. Both johnson and his motor
mysteriously disappeared.

OK, enuff of this.

Gregster
'77 F250 Explorer 4x4

>
> =============================================================
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> Please remove this footer when replying.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 04:30:02 -0800
From: Raymond Christensen <rchristn ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: October 4-Whl&Off-Rd, Thermostat question

Thanks to everyone who responded.

I've now lived in Alaska for 31 years, the last 10 in Fairbanks. Winter
fronts and cardboard are therefore SOP with me. I've owned/operated a
lot of vehicles in that time, though this is my first Ford - sorry. This
is the first one that I've not been able to warm up. It even gets the
garage while my wife's new byew-ick stays outside. If I didn't garage
the darn thing I'd be a popsicle (exaggeration) and the windows would
frost over (reality). The wife refuses to ride with me in the winter -
she thinks lap blankets and nose mittens are a bit much when she could
be warm in her car. Friends have threatened to bring fire wood
(tempting) and my dog prefers to stay home(I miss his body heat).

Ray


>    Put a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator to block off the
>    airflow when it gets really cold.  The expensive equivalent is either
>    louvers or the naugahyde thing you see covering the radiators on semis.
>
>    Just watch your temperature gauge to make sure you don't overheat, but I
>    guarantee that at -25 degrees that won't be much of a problem.  At
>    severely cold temperatures you don't even need the radiator to cool the
>    engine.  The engine loses so much heat right from the block to the cold
>    engine compartment that it never warms up and the thermostat never opens.
>     The cardboard will allow the engine and engine compartment to warm up,
>    which will open the thermostat and allow the coolant to flow through the
>    radiator and keep the solution well mixed.
>
>    When the outside temp gets back up to about zero, you can remove the
>    cardboard or just pull it up halfway and expose the lower part of the
>    radiator.
>
>    I assume you haven't been in Alaska too long.  This is a standard trick
>    in cold weather climates.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 08:52:24 -0400
From: Don Haring <haring fedora.net>
Subject: Re: heater

>A2JKEITH GCI.NET writes:
><< and it beats the heck outta scrapin ice and snow from
>the windshield and windows,  >>

Darrell  <JUMPINFORD aol.com> said:
>When I lived in Reno, I just put a Tshirt over the windsheild so I didnt have
>to scrape the ice.

That's a great idea. A well-placed towel might cover more rectangular area.
We occassionally get ice storms in Philadelphia. With my luck, I'd then
have a towel sealed in a 1/2" of ice. :)  But it seems like a good idea for
most times.

-don

--
Don Haring, Jr.
Design and Illustration | Philadelphia, PA
215-844-8095



------------------------------

From: "Scott Jensen" <sjensensr worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: 400 dyno results
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 04:21:39 -0700


In the mid seventies I was a kid working at our family gas station. A Pantera drove in for gas and the owner and I got to talking, since his car had the same 4v Cleveland that I was trying to stuff in my Torino GT.  He told me that one of the selling points they gave him to buy the Pantera was a 200mph guaranty. If you take it off the lot and it doesn't do 200, bring it back and get a new one. He said he was never able to go that fast, 160mph, if I remember correctly. Not because it wouldn't do it, but because of nerves and finding a road here in Western Oregon that was straight enough. I've had lots of 351C over the years and I don't know a reason not to use a 4v in a car application. I'd like to see the dyno results for a BUILT 4v 351C and compare that to the 400. I don't drive cars anymore and I would never suggest a 351C for a truck. They're high horsepower, mid torque engines that don't see the power band till you get up in R's, then HOLD ON!


------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:16:26 -0700

The best header for an I-4 is a tri-Y and single exhaust.  This may also be
true for the I-6.  The pulse phasing improvment you get with this setup
overcomes the advantage of two exhaust pipes and at low rpms in large
engines this is also true......if you can get the pipes all the same length.

I will say that this is for an engine that see's mostly touring use,  not
racing.  High rpm is a different matter.  For that you want all single pipes
about 2' long, the size of the ports, angling back and down at about a 45
degree angle..........

On an in line engine using a single exhaust is easy but on a V-8 it can be a
chore to get them crossed over without adding too much pipe to the off side
which is one reason most use the dual and cross over/balance tube method on
V-8's.  Tri-Y headers may still get you a few ponies on a V-8 too but were
invented for 4 bangers to even out the pulses.  On a V-8 there are at least
two pulses which don't work with this system as well so the effect is less
apparent if it even exists.

I'm going out on a limb here to say that the tri-y and single exhaust is my
recommendation for the I-6 and equal length headers with balance tubes
probably will work as well for most people on a V-8 as the tri-y's but the
best exhaust I've had on my 460 so far was a cheap Walker two into one
system, it even had better top end.  (my fuel pump just died though so that
may be why I was losing some top end :-))

BTW, equal length headers on an I-6 must be some serious space hogs, eh?

Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> think a crossover pipe would make much difference on an I6 with dual
headers
> and true dual exhaust?



------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:20:01 -0700

Price :-)  Equal length is equal length is equal length...... The main
differences are in the coatings and flange thickness and some have fancier
collectors but the equal length is what gets you the tune, anything else you
do to it is window dressing. (except for the thicker flange, that's
definitely the way to go)

Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> Speaking of which =P, I noticed my headers say Hooker Super Competition
> Headers(for a 240/300), what's the difference between Super Comp and Comp?



------------------------------

From: "Eric Washburn" <bruce9 flash.net>
Subject: Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 08:31:24 -0500

oh ok, thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael" <danger csolutions.net>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 12:47 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250


>     I think the distance between the exit end of headers and where tubes
> come together for the Super Competition is about 2 inches longer than the
> Competition headers.
>
>
> > Speaking of which =P, I noticed my headers say Hooker Super Competition
> > Headers(for a 240/300), what's the difference between Super Comp and
Comp?
>
>
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>
>


------------------------------

From: "Eric Washburn" <bruce9 flash.net>
Subject: Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 08:32:15 -0500

just wondering, got a pair off ebay for 71 bucks awhile back, couldn't pass
that up, WOOHOO =)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 11:20 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250


> Price :-)  Equal length is equal length is equal length...... The main
> differences are in the coatings and flange thickness and some have fancier
> collectors but the equal length is what gets you the tune, anything else
you
> do to it is window dressing. (except for the thicker flange, that's
> definitely the way to go)
>
> Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
> 78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)
>
> > Speaking of which =P, I noticed my headers say Hooker Super Competition
> > Headers(for a 240/300), what's the difference between Super Comp and
Comp?
>
>
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>
>


------------------------------

From: "Eric Washburn" <bruce9 flash.net>
Subject: Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 08:34:57 -0500

ok, cool, thanks. Heck yeah, all the engine space on the passenger side is
taken up with those headers =P, I just hope I won't have to change out the
starter anytime soon, that'll be pain =P
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 11:16 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250


> The best header for an I-4 is a tri-Y and single exhaust.  This may also
be
> true for the I-6.  The pulse phasing improvment you get with this setup
> overcomes the advantage of two exhaust pipes and at low rpms in large
> engines this is also true......if you can get the pipes all the same
length.
>
> I will say that this is for an engine that see's mostly touring use,  not
> racing.  High rpm is a different matter.  For that you want all single
pipes
> about 2' long, the size of the ports, angling back and down at about a 45
> degree angle..........
>
> On an in line engine using a single exhaust is easy but on a V-8 it can be
a
> chore to get them crossed over without adding too much pipe to the off
side
> which is one reason most use the dual and cross over/balance tube method
on
> V-8's.  Tri-Y headers may still get you a few ponies on a V-8 too but were
> invented for 4 bangers to even out the pulses.  On a V-8 there are at
least
> two pulses which don't work with this system as well so the effect is less
> apparent if it even exists.
>
> I'm going out on a limb here to say that the tri-y and single exhaust is
my
> recommendation for the I-6 and equal length headers with balance tubes
> probably will work as well for most people on a V-8 as the tri-y's but the
> best exhaust I've had on my 460 so far was a cheap Walker two into one
> system, it even had better top end.  (my fuel pump just died though so
that
> may be why I was losing some top end :-))
>
> BTW, equal length headers on an I-6 must be some serious space hogs, eh?
>
> Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
> 78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)
>
> > think a crossover pipe would make much difference on an I6 with dual
> headers
> > and true dual exhaust?
>
>
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>
>


------------------------------

From: "Eric Washburn" <bruce9 flash.net>
Subject: Re: 400 dyno results
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 08:38:14 -0500

My friend's dad has a '7 Pantera, that car is awesome. That car is fast, I
was racing him down the highway, me in my truck, my friend and his dad was
in their Pantera. He just left it in 5th gear and still blew me away =P I've
got pics of his car, I think next time, I'm gonna sit in the seat and make
it look like it's my car, lol, I wish. The pics are on this page
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.flash.net/~bruce9/cars.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Jensen" <sjensensr worldnet.att.net>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 6:21 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: 400 dyno results


>
> In the mid seventies I was a kid working at our family gas station. A
Pantera drove in for gas and the owner and I got to talking, since his car
had the same 4v Cleveland that I was trying to stuff in my Torino GT.  He
told me that one of the selling points they gave him to buy the Pantera was
a 200mph guaranty. If you take it off the lot and it doesn't do 200, bring
it back and get a new one. He said he was never able to go that fast,
160mph, if I remember correctly. Not because it wouldn't do it, but because
of nerves and finding a road here in Western Oregon that was straight
enough. I've had lots of 351C over the years and I don't know a reason not
to use a 4v in a car application. I'd like to see the dyno results for a
BUILT 4v 351C and compare that to the 400. I don't drive cars anymore and I
would never suggest a 351C for a truck. They're high horsepower, mid torque
engines that don't see the power band till you get up in R's, then HOLD ON!
>
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>
>


------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: October 4-Whl&Off-Rd, Thermostat question
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:31:38 -0700

If we stop and consider what happened inside your engine under each of these
situations it's pretty easy to see why they over heat.  In every case your
engine was making max power......and heat.  This is way different from just
cruising down the road......

Azie's suggestion was on the mark since the thermostat never opens under the
conditions that were described so under cruising conditions the engine never
gets hot enough to open the thermostat but I suspect in the case of the cold
truck that started this thread there is more wrong.  If the hoses are
correctly hooked up and the core is the largest one you can fit and it is in
good condition and you have used the card board to get the engine temp up
all to no avail then your engine is not producing much power and is probably
wasting fuel to boot.  It could be as simple as a good tune up including
rebuilding the carb.  An inefficiently running engine produces MUCH less
heat.

One other suggestion......if the radiator is not properly filled and it's
height relative to the engine is not correct the coolant will not flow
through the heater regardless.  On most of my ford trucks it only had to be
down a few quarts to do this.

Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> temp in the -20~-28 deg, chugging through deep snow and my motor hit 230
deg
> with the rad blocked completely with card board. Cut a 11 in hole in the
> center and all was well. Another time in -20 deg temp I was making tracks
> down the high way at speeds well above the state limit and had the


------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen power for anyone
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:38:54 -0700

This is all very nice but if you do the chemistry and physics research on
the power input vs the power potential output of this method I think you
will find that you need an auxilary Power unit to run the generator and you
will actually use more energy producing the hydrogen than you will get back
out of the hydrogen you produce........

Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> > the same stuff, but also tells you how to make the hydrogen generator.
Im
>
> Be very careful with this kinda stuff. The oil companies and gov agencies
DO NOT
> LIKE this!


------------------------------

From: "J.X. Schulz" <bdijxs bridgetest.com>
Subject: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:55:12 -0600

Wasn't it here that I read that to find the right place, first install the
headers, then spray some spray paint on the pipes directly behind the
collectors, and then look for the spots on each pipe that burns the
fastest?????

I'm not sure what this all means, but it sounded like a neat trick!

CJ


------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Cheater Bars
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:53:06 -0700

My guess here is that he got them so tight that they cracked and when you
tried to back them off the friction in the dry threads overcame the reduced
strength of the lugs.  As I said, I've used cross wrenches with all my
strength to tighten them and never ran into this problem.  I now use
anti-seize and a 1/2" impact and simply watch the socket so that when it
stops turning I quit, I don't keep hammering on it once the socket stops
moving.  I also do this a little at a time all the way around and go over
them about 5 or 6 times, allowing it to get a little tighter each time using
a cross pattern to keep the pressure even on the wheel.  I use this method
on cast, forged and steel wheels with good success.  On small vehicles with
smaller lugs than my trucks I also stop hammering a little sooner.......it's
all feel :-)

Of course I'm sure we are all aware that there are different torque
capacities in 1/2" impacts too.  Some can get stuff pretty tight so you need
to learn how your's works and get that feel with your specific tool.  Mine
is about 25 years old and still working pretty well but I have an auto oiler
in my air line and before that I used to squirt some in now and then :-)
I'm actually kind of amazed it still works as well as it does :-)

There is a torque specified for lug nuts and it is a good idea to use it if
you can but as long as you don't over do it they will stay on most of the
time.....I've never lost a lug nut in my life and never had a stud break on
any vehicle I've had.

Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> to over 250 lbs, 70 lbs is whay my manual says if I remember right for the
> wheele studs.
>
> I  found out by trying to change the tire (after the the wife unit
shredded
> one on a rock) less than  2 weeks after the tires were installed. No
> corrosion problems, plain ol too much torque! I wasnt real happy


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:00:01 -0500
From: John Strauss <jstrauss inetport.com>
Subject: Stabbing the distributor, was OK Engine Gurus

>Turn the engine so the timing mark is on TDC.  Pull #1 spark plug if you
>need to verify.  Set it (the dist) so the rotor points at where No. 1
>cylinder is on the dist. cap. If it's a Duraspark, make a mark on the
>adapter in magic marker - that's what I did on my van. Make sure the
>distributor has about equal travel in each direction and that should be
>close enough to get the thing started.
>
This is close, but you left something out.  There are TWO top-dead-centers
(TDC) in the 4-stroke cycle.  One is the power stroke (both valves closed)
and one is the exhaust stroke (exhaust valve open).  If you put the timing
mark on TDC, you only have a 50/50 shot of getting the right one.  If you
get the wrong one, your distibutor will be 180 degrees off.

So, pull the number one plug and stick your finger over the hole.  Then
bump the motor around until the compression pushes your finger off.  Then
continue to rotate the engine by hand up to TDC (in the same direction of
rotation).  This should put you on the power stroke without having to pull
the valve cover to check the valves.

Also remember the distributor gear is spur cut which means when you drop it
in, it is going to rotate a little.  So you need to start out with the
rotor pointed BEHIND the intended mark so that it will rotate into the
right place when you drop it in.
  _
_| ~~.  John Strauss
\, *_}  jstrauss inetport.com
  \(    Texas Fight!


------------------------------

From: Brazzadog aol.com
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:01:53 EDT
Subject: Re: Cheater Bars

You bring up a good point.  On R&R jobs, I've found it pretty rare that I can
achieve anything approaching equivalent degrees of "clean, dry threads" from
one bolt to the next.  Ever since I twisted off a tranny pan bolt with a
torque wrench I've been a little obsessive about this stuff.  I quit using
the torque wrench so much and try not to work on trannies in the winter time
anymore.  : )

So if "modern" theory recommends and assumes light lube, in what time frame
could one expect printed torque specs to have begun assuming same?  I have
manuals for, and regularly work on vehicles ranging from the late '60s to the
mid-90's.  How do I decide which method I ought to be shooting for.  I assume
the difference must be enough to matter or we wouldn't be talking about it.

Ben Williams
'71 Wagoneer
'78 F-250 4x4
'88 Bronco

> From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
>
>  Yes, if you read any other manuals which deal specifically with bolt torque
>  specs in general you will discover that all torque specs are based on bolt
>  stretch at a certain torque with lighty oiled threads.  They discovered a
>  long time ago that it is much easier to dash a little oil on the threads in
>  virtually every case rather than try to get the threads, both internal and
>  external completely dry.  Dry, metal to metal has a very inconsistant
>  friction coefficient due to "Galling" where oiled threads have a very
>  predictable coefficient of friction because the oil prevents any galling so
>  stretch at a given torque can be easily calculated or tested for and
>  documented with consistent results.

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:22:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Crossover Pipe for Dual Exhaust in 69 F250

>Wasn't it here that I read that to find the right place, first install the
>headers, then spray some spray paint on the pipes directly behind the
>collectors, and then look for the spots on each pipe that burns the
>fastest?????
>

CJ, that's what I was thinkin too ...


And one comment on Gary's suggestions for placement of it .. DO NOT put the
cross over tube in front of the transmission between the oil pan and the front
cover ... it makes it one heck of a pain to get the torque converter bolts loose
unless you want to pull the entire exhaust system every time you need access
(which probably isn't very often we hope) ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:23:42 GMT
Subject: Re: Heater not heating in Alaska



>> >You bring up a good point, in the late 80's Ford started putting
>> restrictors
>> >in the heater cores to help with heating and prevent core bursts under
>high
>> >pressure conditions (
>======================================================
>ive just installed new cores in my mercury and my 79 f 100 and have not seen

>these restrictors YET in either of them


a) what years ?  obviously 79 isn't late 80's ...

b) I mistyped there, they didn't put them in the heatercores themselves, they
put them in the heater hoses just outside the heatercore.

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Cheater Bars
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:24:36 -0700

Ok, it's really quite simple.  I grade 8 bolt will handle so much torque and
so much stretch before it becomes permanently damaged.  Torque specs take
this into account and leave some room for error.

Your transmission pan bolt probably had been over tightened at the factory
and was already damaged.   You would not beleive what they do sometimes to
get stuff down the line........

When you torque a dry bolt you are twisting the bolt itself at some point
rather than stretching it, this adds additional stress to the bolt and is
more likely to fracture it than if lubed.

My guess is that most of the documents which state "Clean Dry threads" were
in error to begin with.  Engineers make mistakes, documenters make mistakes,
mechanics misunderstand stuff and when the book gets printed the girl doing
the editing rememberd seeing this somewhere so assumes that the draft was in
error and the person actualy meant.......... and on it goes.

I doubt if the numbers have changed much from one to the other and the fact
is that good mechanics have been ignoring the "Clean dry" part of the
directions for hundreds of years simply because you just cant get them
completely dry most of the time.  What I'm saying here is that the torque
specs usually have a margin built in so it shouldn't matter, use a little
oil or anti-seize on the threads, you'll be glad you did :-)

You can tell when a small bolt is not doing what it should and it's time to
stop.  I use a torque wrench faithfully but I use it as a tool not a master,
I'm still the boss :-)  If it feels like the bolt is not doing what it
should I get out a box wrench and "Test" it.  If it feels mushy I get a new
one and if it still feels mushy I put in a heli-coil.  My bronco has one
less clutch bolt in it than it's supposed to due to someone else getting a
little too happy with a wrench :-(  I didn't have a heli-coil that size
handy and wanted it done so threw it together but that's not the right
attitude, should have fixed it right :-)

One exception though is sheet metal screws.  It's better to put them in dry
and coat them afterward with a sealer to prevent them stripping.

Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> one bolt to the next.  Ever since I twisted off a tranny pan bolt with a ....


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