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61-79-list Digest Thu, 07 Sep 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 232

In This Issue:
Re: locked up engine????????????
Re: I love junkyards.
Re: locked up engine????????????
Re: 400 bottom end saga (short)
Re: Vacuum types
Re: Vacuum types
Re: Well, I own it!
Re: TDC
Re: Vacuum types
Re: Vacuum types
Re: Firing new motor/knock appeared
Re: Well, I own it!
Re: Vacuum types
Re: Vacuum types was supposed to be 400 bottom end reply,
Re: Advance
Re: Firing new motor/knock appeared
Re: locked up engine????????????
Re: Advance
Re: Advance

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" <tim-pam williams-net.com>
Subject: Re: locked up engine????????????
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 00:13:02 -0400

try soaking it with Marvel's  Mystery Oil  for a couple of days.  used to be
able to find it at K-Mart or Wal- Mart stores (red can with black lettering)
-----Original Message-----
From: BAMitchell56 <BAMitchell56 excite.com>
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Date: Thursday, September 07, 2000 2:41 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] locked up engine????????????


>is there anything you can put in the cylinders of a locked up engine(from
>setting)to loosen it up and then block be bored and reused this is on a
>flathead i know this is off list topic but you guys seem very knowledgeable
>of mechanics and I've not got an answer from the pre 48 list.
>Thank You
>Barry
>
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 00:06:30 EDT
Subject: Re: I love junkyards.

"melvins classic ford parts" in lithonia, georgia has parts for trucks,
broncos, fairlane, torino, mustang and comets.

------------------------------

From: "Jason and Kathy" <kendrick mddc.com>
Subject: Re: locked up engine????????????
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 23:37:31 -0500

I prefer either kerosene or diesel fuel. Soak the pistons/cylinders for a
week and use a big hammer. I generally destroy the pistons in order to save
the block,crank, and rods. The last motor I had to use this method on was an
old 390. I soaked one bank of cylinders on an engine stand with the four
cylinders vertical until the diesel started to seep past all the pistons and
rings, then rotated the engine and soaked the other bank.



> is there anything you can put in the cylinders of a locked up engine(from
> setting)to loosen it up and then block be bored and reused this is on a
> flathead

There are a lot more of us here on the '61-79 list than on the pre '48 list.
Jason

> i know this is off list topic but you guys seem very knowledgeable
> of mechanics and I've not got an answer from the pre 48 list.
> Thank You
> Barry



------------------------------

From: "Chris Samuel" <fourmuelz email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: 400 bottom end saga (short)
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 22:07:35 -0700

OX.

The "M" engines are wonderfully under-rated!
Keeps the price low!
Anyway, when rev'd (over 5000-RPM stock) they tend to starve the bottom
end. On several I have caught it before "remachine" damage was required,
but, it took a bunch of shrapnel to discover the most likely place to look
for impending disaster is the thrust bearing, particularly when backed up
with a manual trans. (knocking noises that you can drive around, and good
oil pressure=new bearings)
Possibly this could account for 'some' of the crankshaft end play, though I
doubt 1/8".
Yes, to answer your other question a lose damper can easily and quickly
lead to bearing failure, both rod, and main.
The damper is there to dampen out the harmonic vibrations introduced in the
crankshaft by the combustion process. If the engine is operated in the
natural harmonic range for more then the briefest periods with a loose
damper then all kinds of bad things can occur, bearings hammered out being
one of the less expensive results.

CS AKA: Muel
79 Bronco 411ci
75 Highboy 429ci
Member AFTE
Member SAE
Member AWS



------------------------------

From: SevnD2 aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 02:05:18 EDT
Subject: Re: Vacuum types

In a message dated 09/07/2000 8:10:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Rubberducky23 webtv.net writes:

<< If memory serves me right I thought a single line vacuum advance was
hooked to Ported vacuum. >>

Yes, It is. This is so the engine gets timing advance to prevent the engine
from bogging or stumbling (whichever term you like) while the carburetor is
in transition from idle to part throttle. Tried both ways for the advance
side of the diaphragm. One with ported vacuum and one with manifold vacuum. I
always get engine bogging while taking off from a dead stop with the manifold
vacuum. Have no problems with the ported vacuum attached to the advance side
of the diaphragm while taking off from a dead stop.

Even dual diaphragm vacuum advance distributors are setup this way (at least
all of mine are). The other port on the side of the diaphragm housing is
hooked to manifold vacuum and is there to help pull the timing back to the
initially set timing while decelerating. I have observed this on my engines
with a timing light. I know someone will ask how exactly. :-)

My biggest question is this. Why would you hook up manifold vacuum to the
advance side of a dual diaphragm advance distributor? Doesn't this cancel out
any advance at all with the diaphragm since the other port on the side of
this diaphragm housing is for manifold vacuum? Something else is puzzling me.
Why would you want to advance the timing while decelerating? Wouldn't this be
wasted energy since you are trying to slow down or stop? Doesn't it make more
sense to have the timing advance while accelerating since you do want to go
faster?

There is another difference with it (manifold vacuum hooked to the side port
on dual diaphragm distributors) unhooked and plugged verses hooked up. The
vehicle will slow down faster while decelerating with it (manifold vacuum
hooked to the side port on dual diaphragm distributors) hooked up. The
vehicle will slow down slower while decelerating with it (manifold vacuum
hooked to the side port on dual diaphragm distributors) unhooked and plugged.
So there is what happens with my engines and vehicles. No scientific study
here, just a note on what I have observed.

Hope this helps,
Rollie

------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Vacuum types
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:17:41 -0700

What I've noticed is that with ported you have immediate advance from
basically initial timing which is necessary for newer engines because they
are "lean burn" engines and so have leaner mixtures in the transition stage.
With ported vac the timing is advanced to what ever the vac would hold it to
at that throttle opening where with manifold vac you always have a
retardation effect at initial opening from a much higher advance which works
well for carbed engines with richer accellerator pump settings etc..  Hot
rod engines with big carbs for instance will probably work better with
manifold vac.

I have hooked vac gauges to both ports and watched the vac as I opened the
throttle and the ported vac never reaches the same total vac that the
manifold does and actually stays lower throughout the range and at idle you
have zero as was stated.  I suspect that this was necessary to prevent
pinging in lean burn engines.  With manfold vac you have to run lower
initial advance on these engines to prevent pinging on take off.  My Holley
on my bronco does not have this port so I had to retard the timing from
where I really wanted it to prevent holing my pistons when running manifold
vac.  The OEM spread bore on my 70 vintage 460 uses manifold vac and is very
happy with it.  That carb runs very rich but there is no way to tune it that
I know of.  Can't wait to get the Offy manifold and Rochester combo on it
:-)

With manifold vac you idle at about 30 degrees advance and with ported at
about 10 degrees depending on what vac you have installed.   When you gently
open the throttle with manifold the timing drops back somewhat to about 20
or even less where with the ported it advances to about the same point.
Obviously some engines work better one way than the other and most stock
setups will probably do better with ported.

Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> Yes, It is. This is so the engine gets timing advance to prevent the
engine
> from bogging or stumbling (whichever term you like) while the carburetor
is
> in transition from idle to part throttle. Tried both ways for the


------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:40:26 GMT
Subject: Re: Well, I own it!



>Model Year: 78
>Series: F150 - 4x2 Super Cab Pickup
>Engine: 8 Cyl, 460ci (7.5L) 4bbl
>Assembly Plant: Kansas City
>Transmission: The only information provided is Automatic. My guess is C6
>Front Axle: No code selected
>Rear Axle: 2.75 3750lb Ford
>


C6 would probably be a good guess for a 460 power plant ... did they ever put
any other auto (other than the E4OD) behind the 460 ?

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:44:00 GMT
Subject: Re: TDC



>
>Wish writes:  >>firing sooner is closer to TDC, so more retarded or less advanced...
<<
>
>NO!  NO!!  NO!!  If you are already advanced and you make it fire even sooner,

>then it is simply more advanced


Thanks Azie, I must've been high on caffiene that day or something, dunno what
I was thinking ... it must run advanced when you step on the gas then, the springs
pulling it towards base.

As for ported vs. manifold, I've been runnin manifold for quite some time and
haven't had any problems with it.  I did experiment a bit first, but seemed
like manifold responded better.  I'll try switching it again just to see what
happens.

This brings up an interesting question though, if ported vaccuum doesn't have
any vaccuum at idle and "everything" uses ported, why do you need to disconnect
the vaccuum advance when you set the timing ?



Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: SevnD2 aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 10:18:57 EDT
Subject: Re: Vacuum types

In a message dated 09/08/2000 9:21:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
gpeters3 lni.net writes:

<< What I've noticed is that with ported you have immediate advance from
basically initial timing which is necessary for newer engines because they
are "lean burn" engines and so have leaner mixtures in the transition stage.

What is your defintion of newer? I have a 72 car with the dual diaphragm
setup and it gets ported vacuum for the advance side and manifold vacuum on
the retard side.


<<With ported vac the timing is advanced to what ever the vac would hold it to
at that throttle opening where with manifold vac you always have a
retardation effect at initial opening from a much higher advance which works
well for carbed engines with richer accellerator pump settings etc..  Hot
rod engines with big carbs for instance will probably work better with
manifold vac. >>

Why is it better to have the timing go into a retard mode while you are
revving an engine from idle? The centrifugal part of the distributor only
goes into an advance mode while revving from idle. So wouldn't they cancel
out each other at first? How many RPM's does an engine have to be running to
get some effect from the centrifugal timing advance mechanism in the
distributor?

Rollie H. Hunt


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 09:53:29 -0500
Subject: Re: '78 bumper tabs
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

>  Hey Thom, aren't those for the bumper jack ??

Pickups shouldn't have bumper jacks. My 79 has a screw jack that sits under
the I Beam or the axle housing. Bumper jacks should be thrown as far as you
can as quickly as you can. Replace it with a good set of tires, a nice
hydraulic bottle jack, and a four way lug wrench. Any thing less with a
truck is risky at best.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 09:45:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Advance
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

>big snip<
> Wouldn't moving the plate counter to the rotation cause an advanced conidition
> ?  Too bad I'm stuck to ascii, but if you have a point that you watch, say the
> rotor, go around, and you move from point A at say 90 Deg of rotation to a
point
> counter clockwise from there (B), wouldn't that be <90deg of rotation, so it
> would fire sooner ... which would be retarded, you're right, its
counter-intuitive
> ... firing sooner is closer to TDC, so more retarded or less advanced...
>big snip, again<

Correct, Bill. More thought needed. BTW I have been in meetings for two days
and am way way behind again. 207 e-mails this morning on one system alone.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 09:57:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Advance
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> Except for a few of those wierd 70's versions you get advance with vacuum
> and retard when vacuum goes down or manifold pressure goes up toward
> ambient.  You are right though, once you have a clear picture in your mind's
> eye you can guestimate what you need to do to get the desired results :-)

Thanks, Gary. I have a clear picture of what has to happen, now. That was a
good discussion. I appreciate the info.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

From: "Gary" <gpeters3 lni.net>
Subject: Re: Vacuum types
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 11:11:24 -0700

Yes if you are using manifold vacuum, no if ported.  Basically with a WOT
condition you will never see any vacuum at any rpm if the carb is sized
correctly for the engine so once the throttle is held wide open the vac
system is no longer in the loop.

Centrifugal advance is almost linear, that is for every additional rev/min
it opens a little more to advance the timing but the springs are calibrated
to give more advance at different times so it is called a "Curve" for very
good reason.  With the right springs the advance "Curve" actually has at
least one jog in it and many have several.

An experience I had really brings this to light:  I was trying to modify the
curve a little at a time by bending the tabs and inadvertently lost the
black spring on my 460.  I had about 20 other color springs, some very close
to the same wire diameter as the black one and tried all of them with very
poor results.  I finally went to the junk yard since there were no kits with
just springs in them available, and put in a points dizzy with the duraspark
stuff substituted but leaving the mechanical system alone and it took off
like a rocket.

UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, DON'T TRY TO RECURVE IT YOURSELF!!!

The Vac works in conjunction with this but senses the engine's needs
relative to the throttle opening (Load).  Rpm plays a very small role with
the vac compared to the centrifugal system.  Yes it has an impact but
throttle plays a much more important role in controling the vacuum advance.

When you dump raw air into the system by opening the throttle wide open it
takes some time for the mixture to catch up so you need some kind of
immediate timing control.  That's what the vac does.  Virtually all engines
on touring vehicles dump more fuel into the intake when you quickly depress
the gas pedal and also retard the timing from where ever it happens to be at
that moment.  I've already stated the principles at work here but I'll state
them again:

1..Richer mixture requires less advance due to faster flame propagation.

2..Leaner mixture requires more advance for the opposit reason

3..Higher rpm requires more advance due to less time for the flame to travel
all the way across the piston top and consume all the fuel and air. (The
Most efficient (powerful, not economical) engines use every last molecule of
AIR, not fuel and run fairly rich mixtures for this reason)

4..Lower rpm is, of course, the opposit

All timing systems take these two simple rules into account under all
conditions at all speeds.

In a stationary or racing application where you tune the engine for a given
rpm the vac is not needed such as in a lawn mower.  You do loose efficeincy
at the lower rpm ranges under varying load conditions when you do this but
for racing it is one less thing to go wrong and is not needed so they don't
use it.

In a touring vehicle you absolutely have to have some kind of system which
senses load, either electronically via a pressure transducer and throttle
position sensor or mechanically via the vac advance to get good performance
and economy and low rpm throttle response.

Michigan Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary :-)

> Why is it better to have the timing go into a retard mode while you are
> revving an engine from idle? The centrifugal part of the distributor only
> goes into an advance mode while revving from idle. So wouldn't they cancel
> out each other at first?


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 10:08:13 -0500
Subject: Re: '78 bumper tabs
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> I've used them for some fog lights etc in the past, but have no idea what
> Ford intended them for.

I, too, have my driving lights mounted in these holes. The Owner's Manual
doesn't mention the tabs or holes, but it does mention the switch for the
optional fog lamps. Anyone have factory or dealer fog lamps?

BTW, the outside door mirrors we were discussing a couple of weeks back are
referred to as "LO-MOUNT SWING OUT WESTERN MIRROR" on page 43. Please note
the quotes, I am not yelling.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 10:18:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Advance
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> but using manfiold you should
> be able to throw a timing light on it and see what happens since you've got
> good vaccuum there (unless you've got a massive cam) ...

wish, you were doing good until you got here. You might be able to spot the
change with a series of high speed cameras, but not the naked eye. BTDT. The
timing marks disappear from view real quick and then it looks like your
timing light is just on or the tube doesn't recover fast enough and begins
to flash randomly. I can say that the advance occurs less rapidly with the
vacuum disconnected as you speed up the engine.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 10:32:00 -0500
Subject: Re: locked up engine????????????
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> There was some discussion of this as related to a 390, the consensus seemed
> to be to soak the pistons in your favorite solution as its usually one or two
> pistons holding up the whole works.  Also if possible you might pull the crank
> then pull the pistons that you can, those left as stuck you can then tap out
> if possible ... if they will pop out the bottom my suggestion was a piece of
> wood being hit with a big heavy hammer, any damage then is to the wood and not
> the piston or block (unless you really miss)

IMHO, any time you want to remove pistons, except in a brand new never run
freshly bored block, you want to take them out the top. The reason is the
ridge. After you get your pistons unstuck, there will still be a ridge at
the top due to wear. You can ream this ridge with a special tool called a
ridge reamer. Then the freed pistons will slide right out. If you hammer
them out the bottom, you have to over come a larger ridge that you can't get
to to ream out. You also risk breaking a ring and severely scratching the
bore by hammering out through the bottom.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 12:17:57 -0400
From: Joe <shoman p3.net>
Subject: Re: Firing new motor/knock appeared

Here goes again,
went out and fired motor again...Knock is still there(comes and goes) so i
throw on
the engine stethescope and the sound is coming from under the timing
cover...on the
fuel pump side....timing chain??Pump???Fuel ecentric?
joe


------------------------------

From: "Bill Beyer" <bbeyer99 home.com>
Subject: Re: Well, I own it!
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:44:28 -0700

I don't believe so...

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

----- Original Message -----
From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 5:40 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: Well, I own it!


>
> C6 would probably be a good guess for a 460 power plant ... did they ever
put
> any other auto (other than the E4OD) behind the 460 ?




------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 12:56:51 -0500
Subject: Re: TDC
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> This brings up an interesting question though, if ported vaccuum doesn't have
> any vaccuum at idle and "everything" uses ported, why do you need to
disconnect
> the vaccuum advance when you set the timing ?

Indeed.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:02:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Oxley <joxenburger yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Vacuum types


wish wrote:

> when I took my 360 apart, it had an oil
slinger/guard on the crank between the
> spacer and the damper ... of course this FE has a
spacer between the timing
> gears and the damper as well, but I wonder if that
400 is supposed to have one,

I pulled apart a couple and have not seen this spacer
slinger.

> that could take up that 1/8th" and tighten
everything up.  I'd suspect it as
> being part of your knock at least ... it really
wouldn't be good to have that
> flopping around and could cause more damage as well
... as for the thicker oil
> calming it down, is it possible you just didn't put
the revs on it with the
> thicker oil in to really test it ?

Oh yes I did :-), but it was knocking at idle and it
got much quieter at idle. I thought maybe oil was
covering loose timing gear and making it quieter.

Chris Samuel wrote:
>
> OX.

it took a bunch of shrapnel to discover the most
likely place to look
> for impending disaster is the thrust bearing,
Thrust bearing looks good.

particularly when backed up
> with a manual trans. (knocking noises that you can
drive around, and good
> oil pressure=new bearings)
> Possibly this could account for 'some' of the
crankshaft end play, though I
> doubt 1/8".

Crank does not seem to have endplay, just seems
balancer bolts in too far.

That brings up one more question. All the auto M's
I've had have much smaller balancer than the manual
trans balancer. I'm assuming the tranny and associated
flywheel is is the difference between balancers, is
this true? I also checked 2 more 400 cranks I have and
both had the same distance from end of crank to where
crank timing gear meets crank. BTW, thanks for all the
ideas/info from everyone!!

                        OX

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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:08:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Oxley <joxenburger yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Vacuum types was supposed to be 400 bottom end reply,



See previous message, sorry ;-)

                   OX

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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------------------------------

From: "Hogan, Tom" <Tom.Hogan kla-tencor.com>
Subject: Re: Advance
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:11:35 -0700

<snip>
> >Also, when the vacume increases to the advance modulator on
> the dist, teh
>
> >timing advances.
>
> It does ?  You measured it, or just assuming it from the post
> above ?
>
> Remember you've got a ton of vaccuum at idle and at
> deceleration, and very little
> when you're stepping on it, the vaccuum advance is next to
> useless during acceleration,
> unless its job is to relax and allow the springs and weights
> to add timing during
> acceleration ... so at high vaccuum states it will pull
> timing ... when the
> power isn't needed/wanted ...
>
> Just my $.02
> wish
>

I have measured it.  It was a while ago but that is how it behaved.  With
the vacuum hooked up the timing would be at 1 value.  Open the throttle and
the timing would drop back a little until the engine speed and vacuum came
up.  From earlier discussions at idle it has been stated that the engine
idle speed will be higher if the advance is increased.  Try warming up your
truck, disconnecting the hose from the dist and connecting it to a manifold
source.  The idle speed should increase unless your initial timing is set
very high.

BTW, someone mentioned using a hand operated vacuum pump.  On several
vehicles I have had no luck with that.  I don't know if the diaprams in all
these vehicles I've tried were worn out or if there is an orfice in there to
allow air flow.

Tom H.

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 18:28:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Firing new motor/knock appeared

>the sound is coming from under the timing
>cover...on the
>fuel pump side....timing chain??Pump???Fuel ecentric?

I would probably pull and check the fuel pump to be sure you've got the right
armature on it ... I had a misunderstanding once and they gave me a fuel pump
for a different make 360, it bolted right up, but the armature was just a little
different, it probably would've worked, but might've rubbed ...

you may also be able to tell if the eccentric is loose by reacing in through
the hole with a screw driver and trying to push on it and see if it will move
... may not work, its just a thought ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 18:30:26 GMT
Subject: Re: locked up engine????????????

>IMHO, any time you want to remove pistons, except in a brand new never run
>freshly bored block, you want to take them out the top. The reason is the
>ridge. After you get your pistons unstuck, there will still be a ridge at
>the top due to wear. You can ream this ridge with a special tool called a
>ridge reamer. Then the freed pistons will slide right out. If you hammer
>them out the bottom, you have to over come a larger ridge that you can't get

>to to ream out.

I don't really understand why the ridge would be bigger on the bottom than on
the top, but I agree if you've got a reamer and such that would be the way to
do it.  Especially an old flat-head block, I don't suppose those are getting
any easier to come by these days ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 18:32:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Advance



>> but using manfiold you should
>> be able to throw a timing light on it and see what happens since you've got

>> good vaccuum there (unless you've got a massive cam) ...
>
>wish, you were doing good until you got here. You might be able to spot the

>change with a series of high speed cameras, but not the naked eye. BTDT. The

>timing marks disappear from view real quick and then it looks like your
>timing light is just on or the tube doesn't recover fast enough and begins

>to flash randomly.


Cool, I'd never tried it ... also have the cool advance adjustable timing light,
which may or may not help the situation any (doesn't require you to see the
numbers on the crank though as you can dial them back in with a little math)


Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 18:34:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Advance



>>big snip<
>> Wouldn't moving the plate counter to the rotation cause an advanced conidition

>> ?  Too bad I'm stuck to ascii, but if you have a point that you watch, say
the
>> rotor, go around, and you move from point A at say 90 Deg of rotation to
a
>point
>> counter clockwise from there (B), wouldn't that be <90deg of rotation, so
it
>> would fire sooner ... which would be retarded, you're right, its
>counter-intuitive
>> ... firing sooner is closer to TDC, so more retarded or less advanced...

>>big snip, again<
>
>Correct, Bill. More thought needed.

No, actually I'm not, because we're BEFORE TDC firing sooner would make it even
farther before which would be an advance not a retard ... ....


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